The Kid

[Frayed Knot]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I own this card somewhere. Rare to see Carter wearing another uni number than 8 -- 57! (he was born April 8 and married Feb. 8)

There was that story Frank Cashen told about negotiating the trade and/or contract extension with Carter and hearing him repreat; I gotta keep #8 - or words to that effect. Cashen, wondering what clause #8 in the contract was all about, worried that it was some over-the-top privilege the Mets would consider a deal-breaker.
Turned out that all Gary was interested in, citing his birthday and anniversary, was being able to continue wearing #8 as his uni.

[Edgy MD]

Empire State Building to go blue and orange tonight in honor of Gary Carter.

[Guest themetfairy]

Met Hunter wrote: For the record, Carter is the 60th Met player to die. That number has doubled in the 8 years since Tug became number 30.

That's eerie!

What's your source for this?

[ashie62]

Probably the necrology on UMDB

http://www.ultimatemets.com/

[Fman99]

themetfairy wrote: Met Hunter wrote: For the record, Carter is the 60th Met player to die. That number has doubled in the 8 years since Tug became number 30. That's eerie! What's your source for this?

I just read this too, in Ghoulish Mets Fan Weekly.

[G-Fafif]

Take that, Papacy!

At Montreal's Olympic Park, management announced plans to consult with Carter's family and make plans to name a space in the area after him One federal politician, Liberal Denis Coderre, raised the possibility of renaming the metro stop at Olympic Stadium, replacing the current name of Pope Pius IX.

[Edgy MD]

Pius IX --- only guy to serve longer than John Paul II (but still not as long as Connie Mack). Not a popular figure these days.

Meantime:

[Met Hunter]

Ashie62 wrote: Probably the necrology on UMDB http://www.ultimatemets.com/

Yep that is the source.

60 is a pretty low number considering they've played 50 seasons and have over 900 alumni.

[Guest themetfairy]

Thanks guys - I didn't know that existed.

[Frayed Knot]

BP also posts an article dealing with the whys and wherefores of the deal which brought him to NY

Now I'm not going to be one of those guys who'll claim to have KNOWN at the time that this was the put-em-over-the-top kind of trade. In fact, I'll admit to being luke-warm to the deal upon first hearing about it.
I was a big Hubie fan living with a friend at the time who was even more so - boy was HE pissed that night! I also had hopes for Herm Winningham to the point where I remember thinking that I bet they wished they could have subbed Mookie into the deal now that Lennie was here. Plus I was leery of Carter due to that odd circumstance where you begin to get numb to the greatness of a player who had been as good as he had for such a long time and start to think of him as yesterday's news and not the kind of younger, dynamic player the '85 and beyond Mets needed.

Good thing they didn't have a dope like me running the team, huh? In retrospect - and probably to smart people at the time - he was so clearly the missing piece; the RH bat on the lefty-heavy squad, the veteran catcher to guide all those young pitchers, the clean-up hitter to take pressure off of Strawberry, and so on.

The most frequent mentions this week were the opening day HR and the post-season hits. I tend to think back to the absolute monster of a September he had in '85 as that team surged to 98 wins and were a bloop or two away from yanking the lead away from the Cardinals.
The over-the-hill fear of course did show up in years 4 & 5 of his NYM career and the years in between have blurred the memories of some pretty harsh fan treatment in those final seasons, but no same person could possibly want to un-do the deal even with the warts that eventually showed up.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Met Hunter wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Probably the necrology on UMDB http://www.ultimatemets.com/ Yep that is the source. 60 is a pretty low number considering they've played 50 seasons and have over 900 alumni.

Met Hunter modestly selling himself short here. He's "sourcing" the stuff he knows and which is aggregated there.

[Met Hunter]

I really just did a check to see where the number stood. It is a great reference site, as is yours. Seeing how you are a numbers guy, I will break down a couple things for you.

Deceased Met players:

1-Gil Hodges
10-Cal Koonce
20-John Milner
25-Dick Selma
30-Tug McGraw
40-Bill Graham
50-Tom Sturdivant
60-Gary Carter

And heres one more. At the time of the September 11th attacks, the Met count was at 666. Ironically it was C.J. Nitkowski, a deeply religious man. How's that for a bad omen? I'm sure you guys on this site already knew this.

[Edgy MD]

Frayed Knot wrote: BP also posts an article dealing with the whys and wherefores of the deal which brought him to NY Now I'm not going to be one of those guys who'll claim to have KNOWN at the time that this was the put-em-over-the-top kind of trade. In fact, I'll admit to being luke-warm to the deal upon first hearing about it. I was a big Hubie fan living with a friend at the time who was even more so - boy was HE pissed that night! I also had hopes for Herm Winningham to the point where I remember thinking that I bet they wished they could have subbed Mookie into the deal now that Lennie was here. Plus I was leery of Carter due to that odd circumstance where you begin to get numb to the greatness of a player who had been as good as he had for such a long time and start to think of him as yesterday's news and not the kind of younger, dynamic player the '85 and beyond Mets needed.

I'm certainly not going to poop on the trade, but I don't think it's a no-brainer. Immediately after the deal, Hubie Brooks became the slugging righty that they needed. Of course, his mid-season injury could have short-circuited 1985, though Darryl's thumb injury pretty much did that.

When they got Carter, he had 13.7 WAR ahead of him (as per baseball-reference.com). Brooks, Youmans, Fitzgerald, and Winnngham had 14.2 (including -2.0 for Herm).

Of course, all the eggs can't be unscrambled and it's really hard to make WAR represent what it's supposed to --- especially with something as nebulous as a catcher's impact on his pitching staff --- but then you count in the relative salary, and I, well, I don't think it's a no-brainer.

[metirish]

Met Hunter wrote: I really just did a check to see where the number stood. It is a great reference site, as is yours. Seeing how you are a numbers guy, I will break down a couple things for you. Deceased Met players: 1-Gil Hodges 10-Cal Koonce 20-John Milner 25-Dick Selma 30-Tug McGraw 40-Bill Graham 50-Tom Sturdivant 60-Gary Carter And heres one more. At the time of the September 11th attacks, the Met count was at 666. Ironically it was C.J. Nitkowski, a deeply religious man. How's that for a bad omen? I'm sure you guys on this site already knew this.

never knew that, C.J. Nitkowski played for the Mets?.....kidding

[Edgy MD]

"Today, I got it hanging in my studio office."

[youtube:3ch82duz]AY5RSmXzfvc[/youtube:3ch82duz]

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

There will be a tribute to Gary Carter at the Canadiens game in Montreal tonight.

[Edgy MD]

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

The Youp-ster went old skool:

[Edgy MD]

[Edgy MD]

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy DC wrote:

That's terrific. Nice job by Les Habitants.



I thought of another memory of Carter.

The '84 ASG (for which he'd be named MVP) as the other half of the battery for a teenage pitcher named Gooden.
Dwight, making his AS debut in his rookie year, went out and quickly, as most NYM fans know, struck-out the side (Lance Parrish, Chet Lemon, Al Davis). The inning-ending K prompted vet catcher Carter (still in the game more than half way through we should note) to bound out from behind the plate with a grin on his face that could only have said, 'Golly whiz guys, how cool was THAT!'

In the 5th inning of his 7th All-Star Game in his 10th big-league season, he was still a fan.

[metirish]

Video tribute


http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=66&id=158863

[G-Fafif]

Palm Beach Atlantic team to take the field with 8 players to honor their coach.

[Edgy MD]

New thought for a tribute from the Mets: Name one of their minor league teams "The Kids."

The GCL Mets would have been a good target, as he skippered them, but they are, alas, no more. And all the GCL teams, seemingly as a general rule, share the names of their parent clubs. But how about Kingsport? He never coached them, but they seem like a team in need of a little identity adjustment.

The B-Mets would be a bad fit, as he left the organization after refusing to manage them, but if the AA affiliate moves to Ottawa, that might be a great opportunity to honor Carter's Mets' legacy and his Canadian legacy in one fell swoopage.

[metirish]

Great idea, one thing, was Gary "the Kid" or just "Kid"?

[Edgy MD]

Both, kinda.

[Edgy MD]

As this thread title suggests.

Service set for Friday in West Palm Beach. Representing the Mets:

Management
Sandy Alderson
John Ricco

Former Mets Personnel
Keith Hernandez
Rusty Staub
Wally Backman
Tim Teufel
Howard Johnson
Roger McDowell
Mookie Wilson
Sid Fernandez
Darryl Strawberry

Current Mets Personnel
Terry Collins
Dan Warthen
Bobby Parnell
Jon Niese
Josh Thole
David Wright

I'm sure the list isn't final. Thole, Niese, and Parnell all played for Carter in the minors.

[metirish]

Nice list, Wharten pitched to Carter at one point.

[G-Fafif]

From PBAU, via Araton.

�Everybody knew he wanted to manage in the major leagues and we were worried that he�d get an offer and it�d be one and done,� said Joe Cole, who had driven up for the game from Fort Lauderdale. Carter made them a promise: he would only leave to manage � not coach � in the majors. But under circumstances unforeseen and heart-wrenching, Kelly�s and Cole�s sons still only got to play one year for him. William M. B. Fleming Jr., the interim president of Palm Beach Atlantic, a faith-based university of about 3,700 students in downtown West Palm Beach, had known Carter for about 20 years when he agreed to become the coach. Yes, managing in the majors remained an ambition, Fleming said. But he also believed that the birth of a granddaughter � Carter�s daughter Kimmy Bloemers is the university�s softball coach � meant there would be no more chasing the dream in places leading to nowhere. �He sensed it was time to be at home with his family, no more Long Island Ducks or Orange County Flyers,� Fleming said.

[G-Fafif]

"We really had something special there." The Kid, on his Mets, via ESPN.