Pagan traded to the Giants.

[metirish]

"@Jon_Heyman: Pagan will go to giants for andres torres and ramon ramirez, confirmed (via @Joel_Sherman and @YankeesWFAN)"

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Torres sucks ass. Ramirez doesn't look bad but he's a relief pitcher.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

With an underrated 2010, crap 2011, and occasionally brilliant fill-in work before that, along with a great-in-the-corners/okay-in-center glove, Torres is Pagan plus 4-5 years, and with walks/pop instead of contact.

Ramirez is an effective righty with a nice, moving fastball and bite-y slider, who's been effective everywhere he's gone in the last few years, but doesn't strike out as many guys as you might think with that stuff. Plenty of weak contact, though. He should be damn solid.

Selling a LITTLE low, maybe... but not a terrible package to get if you don't believe in Pagan.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I said from the start that they'd come up with another solution after Pagan spent the year with his head up his ass. Doesn't seem like he liked Terry or vice versa, writers say he was surly and distracted all year.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

How do the defensive metrics I don't trust like Torres?

How big of an attraction with Pagan be to the gheys out there? I mean really.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Oh, he's pretty.

Those metrics do seem to pretty consistently like Torres (with fewer peaks and valleys in both Dewan Plus-Minus and UZR). Plus? Hits lefties and righties equally well, unlike a certain westward-headed, well-groomed clone of his.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Excellent Giants blog Bay City Ball already has a quickie analysis up. (Nothing on Pagan's potential appeal to key demographics.)

In essence, the Giants traded Andres Torres for a younger clone version with slightly worse defense. Though, that�s not to say it�s necessarily a bad trade. For one, this should move Melky Cabrera out of CF, which for Giants� pitchers and their ERAs is a good, nay, fantastic thing. Losing Ramirez impacts the bullpen (third best projected reliever by ZiPS), but the Giants have been pretty decent at digging up relief arms over the past couple of years. I think, all things considered, the Giants would have been better just tendering (and keeping) Torres and Ramirez, but it was clear that the team wasn�t going to go in that direction, at least with Torres. This is probably the best option to not having Torres on the team. Damning with faint praise, maybe, but Pagan has been a pretty good player at times in his career and I really, really like the idea of moving (and I�m assuming, here) Cabrera out of CF.

[Vic Sage]

pagan for torres is sort of a sideways move but Ramirez will help, so overall, its an upgrade.

[Frayed Knot]

"@Jon_Heyman: Pagan will go to giants for andres torres and ramon ramirez, confirmed (via @Joel_Sherman and @YankeesWFAN)"

Fuckin' Omar and his Latins ... oh wait!

Ramirez is arb eligible and can be a FA at the end of 2012

I suspect Angel to Torres will be somewhat less than a sideways move especially seeing how you're getting several years older - but I suppose we can't ask for two upgrades in one trade.

[Vic Sage]

its a sideways move THIS year. After that, all bets are off.

[Edgy MD]

Sure seemed to find his instincts in 2010.

It's a mystery, I tells ya.

[ashie62]

Hasn't Pagan had chronic ulcerative colitis for years. Maybe, just maybe..he wasn't feeling well last year?

Who is the Mets CF now?

[nymr83]

Looks like window dressing, Mets just shuffling the cards and hoping nobody notices they still arent dealing any...

[ashie62]

Seriously, who starts at CF next. Not Torres, right?

[Edgy MD]

Ashie62 wrote: Hasn't Pagan had chronic ulcerative colitis for years. Maybe, just maybe..he wasn't feeling well last year? Who is the Mets CF now?

I think it's Torres until further notice. I can't speak to knowingly of the colitis. Though I've often heard tell of its warm smell.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Presumably, it's Torres-- he's got more pop and walks more than Pagan, and plays better defense. (Cameron Light?)

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Hasn't Pagan had chronic ulcerative colitis for years. Maybe, just maybe..he wasn't feeling well last year? Who is the Mets CF now? I think it's Torres until further notice. I can't speak to knowingly of the colitis. Though I've often heard tell of its warm smell.

He does..it's like Lupus, joked about til you see it...

[Edgy MD]

Oh, sorry. I certainly don't joke about colitis. Only about my ignorance.

[ashie62]

I guess Nieuwenhuis has a real shot.

[Guest attgig]

seems like the brass soured on Pagan. It was his last year of arb, and he wasn't going to get another contract that was longer.
I actually think Torres has a year of arb beyond Pagan. He could get nontendered pretty easily after next year, so either way it seems like a win in the CF department $ & contract wise.

torres made $2.2mil in 2011 and pagan $3.5. so post arb $ wise, we're saving an extra mil or so.

WAR-wise:
Pagan: 2010 - 5.1 (pretty spectacular) 2011 - 0.2 (above average only because he gets extra points for being CF. otherwise below ave).
Torres 2010 - 4.6 2011 - 1.3

one interesting note about the war... pagan's defensive war went from 2.2 to -1.7. His defense alone cost us 1.7 games this past year...

[smg58]

Torres has been a bit more consistent on defense, but his best doesn't match Pagan's best in that regard.

Torres had an excellent 2010 with the bat, but he strikes out far too often and it's possible the league simply figured out how to pitch to him. I'm not expecting much.

Ramirez is the best of the three arms the Mets brought in last night, though.

[Edgy MD]

You know, for 24 hours, Pagan was (according to Terry) our designated leadoff hitter. Now we're down to

[list:ltnog4rb][*:ltnog4rb]Tejada (despite his youth and any reluctance the team may have in putting him even more in Reyes' shadow); or[/*:m:ltnog4rb]
[*:ltnog4rb]Murphy (despite his general relative lack of speed, post-op gimpiness, and lack of demonstrated baserunning acumen); or[/*:m:ltnog4rb]
[*:ltnog4rb]Torres (despite his questionable on-base skills).[/*:m:ltnog4rb][/list:u:ltnog4rb]

Nieuewnhius may come fast.

[metirish]

Giants fans now get to experience going from Beltran to Pagan.Didn't see it but Sandomir in the Times was tweeting like crazy last night about how SNY were going all out on these moves with wall to wall coverage.

[batmagadanleadoff]

• Tejada (despite his youth and any reluctance the team may have in putting him even more in Reyes' shadow); or
• Murphy (despite his general relative lack of speed, post-op gimpiness, and lack of demonstrated baserunning acumen); or
• Torres (despite his questionable on-base skills).

Nieuewnhius may come fast.

Edgy DC wrote: You know, for 24 hours, Pagan was (according to Terry) our designated leadoff hitter. Now we're down to

Reyes' absence might expose Terry Collins as another in an uninterrupted line of wee ball ****bunters.

White Willie sez:

the Mets would miss Pagan ... but said he ... would use the speedy [34 year old to be] Torres [lifetime OBP - .318; 2011 OBP - .312] in the leadoff spot, where Pagan would have played.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/07/sports/baseball/mlb-baseball-roundup-mets-winter-meetings-bullpen.html

[Frayed Knot]

metirish wrote: Didn't see it but Sandomir in the Times was tweeting like crazy last night about how SNY were going all out on these moves with wall to wall coverage.

It's December, what else are they going to do?
The only other story 'round these parts in mid-week is that every team up to and including the Gay Men's Chorus and the cast of 'The View' has reportedly been offered a spot in the Big East.

[metirish]

Frayed Knot wrote: metirish wrote: Didn't see it but Sandomir in the Times was tweeting like crazy last night about how SNY were going all out on these moves with wall to wall coverage. It's December, what else are they going to do? The only other story 'round these parts in mid-week is that every team up to and including the Gay Men's Chorus and the cast of 'The View' has reportedly been offered a spot in the Big East.

oh no doubt , they maybe got a tad excited though , again like you said what else are they going to do, moves are moves.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy DC wrote: Nieuewnhius may come fast.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he displaced Torres some time before the end of the season.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

metirish wrote: metirish wrote: Didn't see it but Sandomir in the Times was tweeting like crazy last night about how SNY were going all out on these moves with wall to wall coverage. It's December, what else are they going to do? The only other story 'round these parts in mid-week is that every team up to and including the Gay Men's Chorus and the cast of 'The View' has reportedly been offered a spot in the Big East. oh no doubt , they maybe got a tad excited though , again like you said what else are they going to do, moves are moves.

Some twitty fans were incredulous when they didn;t cut away from whatever programming they had to go live on the Reyes thing.

[bmfc1]

Andres Torres--he's a nice guy:

http://blog.sfgate.com/thebigevent/2011/12/07/farewell-to-andres-torres-nicest-guy-on-the-planet/

[metirish]

bmfc1 wrote: Andres Torres--he's a nice guy: http://blog.sfgate.com/thebigevent/2011/12/07/farewell-to-andres-torres-nicest-guy-on-the-planet/

that's cool,seems like a good guy, he'll need that positive attitude here.