Following an Angel (split from Prospect Lists of 2011-2012)

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Doncha think there's something to the notion that as long as we know what Pagan is likely to prove on the upside and down, it might be better to gamble with someone else's up & down?

No. I'd rather the ups and downs we know. Don't buy into the grass is always greener on the other team argument.

And I think Pagans upside, and the possibility of that upside, is much greater than say Sizemore's or whoever we could get.

[metirish]

Jesus, even Pagan's agent wouldn't sound that optimistic.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Jesus, even Pagan's agent wouldn't sound that optimistic.

you mean even Sizemore's agent wouldn't sound that optimistic.

[metirish]

Ceetar wrote: metirish wrote: Jesus, even Pagan's agent wouldn't sound that optimistic. you mean even Sizemore's agent wouldn't sound that optimistic.

Ha

[Ceetar]

sizemore: "He had arthroscopic surgery on his right knee in early October, but he could still be ready for spring training next year. "

Hey, bring him in on a minor league deal and let's see, but certainly don't pay him.

[Vic Sage]

And I think Pagans upside, and the possibility of that upside, is much greater than say Sizemore's or whoever we could get.

that's just the crack talking. put the pipe down.

Maybe a fly flew up his nose and is sitting on his brain.

that made me laugh out loud. wait, were you talking about Pagan or Ceetar?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Does it matter?

[Edgy MD]

Edgy DC wrote on 4/8/2011:

Centerfield: Rick Ankiel replaces Nyjer Morgan (dumped at the end of camp for Cutter F. Dykstra) but is looking like a bench player at this point in his career. Off the juice, he�s spent the last two seasons bouncing between teams, hurt, and absolutely useless against lefties (hitting like a pitcher, to be honest). I imagine Hairston will help him against lefties. How much, I don�t know, but he needs it. Ankiel went to Port St. Lucie High School of all places, so look for him to catch on with the Mets a little bit during his long trip into the sunset.

Andy Martino wrote on 4/4/2011:

His is a name loaded with Disney drama and back-page dishonor, but Rick Ankiel could be the right outfielder for the price. Team insiders - while noting that Pagan might still return, and that they have not contacted Ankiel�s agent or decided to pursue him - have not shot down the notion, and point out that Ankiel, the free agent who earned $1.5 million last season with the Washington Nationals, might be precisely the type of short-term replacement for Pagan that the Mets are seeking.

Get in line with your wild-ass speculation, Tracky!

[Frayed Knot]

MLB.com on Grady Sizemore

- ... expects to be completely healthy by the start of Spring Training and is keeping his options open for 2012.
Sizemore's agent, Joe Urbon, said the interest in his client's services is best described as "steady" and he has heard from a number of clubs... [adding] that there is not a timetable for a decision.

- One option for Sizemore could be shifting from center field to left or right if it's the right fit. He could also seek a one-year incentive-based deal that would make him a free agent at the end of the 2012 season. Sizemore might believe his value will increase for the '13 season with improved health and full season under his belt.

- He has had two knee surgeries -- one on each knee -- in the last year and a half, including microfracture surgery on his left knee last year. He also suffered a sports hernia and a right knee injury. He is recovering from an Oct. 3 arthroscopic procedure on his right knee, which had a bone bruise and was part of the reason he was off the field for most of the second half of the season.

- "The microfracture is not an issue," Urbon said. "He's as structurally as sound as you can be, and nothing he has suffered is chronic. He missed parts of three years. I'm not going to dismiss health, nor should it be, but it will all be cleared up by due diligence."

[Edgy MD]

I'll take that with a mine of salt.

[smg58]

Ankiel's defense was strong last year, and he's still got as good an outfield arm as anybody, but it's tough to get excited about a .650 OPS.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, but isolate him against righties and that shoots up to .678, so...

[Edgy MD]

Yoenis Cespedes?

mD_ZrcUZv94

[Frayed Knot]

You're a little late on that video as it was pulled earlier today, presumably by the folks who made it.

What you still can catch up on is Kevin Goldstein's rather humorous write-up on it for 'Baseball Prospectus'

As for whether the player is a good as this mini-film implies is still up in the air.

[Edgy MD]

You're a little late with that Goldstein link. As I included it on the guy's name.

[Ceetar]

intriguing, but given the interest by others I'm not sure the Mets are in a position to buy on hype.

[MFS62]

A guy at work told me that Jon Heyman just reported that the Mets will tender Pagan.
Not sure whether it was twitted, tweeted or (since it was Heyman) twatted.
Can anyone provide a link or confirmation?

Later

[Ceetar]

MFS62 wrote: A guy at work told me that Jon Heyman just reported that the Mets will tender Pagan. Not sure whether it was twitted, tweeted or (since it was Heyman) twatted. Can anyone provide a link or confirmation? Later

I believe Rubin 'reported' this as well. But it's not actually..'news' to be reported. I don't think Sandy spoke or anything, it's just further speculation.

[smg58]

Ceetar wrote: intriguing, but given the interest by others I'm not sure the Mets are in a position to buy on hype.

Given that Aroldis Chapman is still more hype than results, and the Blue Jays invested substantially in a Cuban shortstop who may or may not make the majors at all, I'd let somebody else do the buying.

[MFS62]

smg58 wrote: Given that Aroldis Chapman is still more hype than results, and the Blue Jays invested substantially in a Cuban shortstop who may or may not make the majors at all, I'd let somebody else do the buying.

I still remember when the Mets passed on obtaining Luis Tiant for $25,000. (He was available in that year's equivalent of the Rule V draft)
There are Cuban players, and then there are Cuban players.
A competent scouting organization should be able to determine which ones are worth the investment.

Later

[Edgy MD]

They're all more hype than results. Sooner or later, you consult with your scouts and make big decisions.

[Edgy MD]

Andy McCullough says that the Mets had a scout at the Cespedes workout.

Hopefully, they didn't fire him afterwards.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Andy McCullough says that the Mets had a scout at the Cespedes workout. Hopefully, they didn't fire him afterwards.

funny, I know I heard a couple of tweets that were screaming about the Mets not having a scout there. Doesn't take much to rile people up.

Sandy's been pretty good about doing his due diligence though. big fan of the informed decision.

[Edgy MD]

Screamers. Waddayagonnado?

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Screamers. Waddayagonnado?

Trade them to the Yankees for a CrazyTradeProposer to be named later.

[MFS62]

Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Screamers. Waddayagonnado? Trade them to the Yankees for a CrazyTradeProposer to be named later.

That reminds me, we haven't had a 2011- 2012 Mets WATP thread yet. The "Bay for ..." thread never gained momentum.
Anyone want to start one?
Or rename that one?

Later

[Frayed Knot]

MFS62 wrote: smg58 wrote: Given that Aroldis Chapman is still more hype than results, and the Blue Jays invested substantially in a Cuban shortstop who may or may not make the majors at all, I'd let somebody else do the buying. I still remember when the Mets passed on obtaining Luis Tiant for $25,000. (He was available in that year's equivalent of the Rule V draft) There are Cuban players, and then there are Cuban players. A competent scouting organization should be able to determine which ones are worth the investment.

If all it took were "competent scouting" to determine whether a player was going to be a star at some point in the future then none of these 'can't miss' players would ever miss instead of many of them missing.
Now we're dealing with a case of a rarely-if-ever seen before Cuban player where you've got little or no background data, a good possibility that you're taking his claimed age on mere faith, and where a decision needs to be made based on one or maybe two mass-attended workouts.
Oh yeah, and the price now is probably in the ten$ of million$.



Meanwhile ... the video is back!!

The original at just over 20 minutes

kREZHmOR1bg





and the edited version at a mere 17+

aW9ge8l3jY8


Apparently the thing was pulled not for secrecy reasons but because of objections to some of the rap lyrics in the background and especially to - get this - the scene near the end where a pig is being roasted.

[MFS62]

That scene was put in the video specifically to drive away any Vegan baseball scouts.

Later

[batmagadanleadoff]

Cespedes might be all that. But I could edit a highlight film to make Benny Agbayani look as good as Babe Ruth. (And Benny's got the stomach part down pat).

[Frayed Knot]

Indians said to be "closing in" on a new one-year deal for Grady Sizemore.