"Fire Wayne Hagin"

[Edgy MD]

Not me necessarily saying that. I just stumbled across a blog dedicated to it. You'd figure that it wouldn't be that stimulating, what with the really narrow agenda, but bam, it's really well written.

Then I click the "More About Me" link and find out it's Paul Lukas. Where do they find the time?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I am certain we've discussed this site here before. Most of it was a 2010 project.

[Gwreck]

I recall that the sentiment was that while Wayne isn't very good the project trended towards being just a little too mean.

[metirish]

Gwreck wrote: I recall that the sentiment was that while Wayne isn't very good the project trended towards being just a little too mean.

Exactly, was surprised it was Lukas if I remember correctly.

[Edgy MD]

Memory. Such a precious thing to lose.

What was this thread about again? Anyway, I also found this funny place called the Crane Pool....

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

One of the commenters raises an interesting question.

Who's calling the perpetual Mets-Marlins-at-Moist-Shark-Stadium game (with Pelf starting, natch) in your Metsian purgatory: Hagin or Fran X? Who's worse?

[dgwphotography]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: One of the commenters raises an interesting question. Who's calling the perpetual Mets-Marlins-at-Moist-Shark-Stadium game (with Pelf starting, natch) in your Metsian purgatory: Hagin or Fran X? Who's worse?

They're calling it together, with Steve LaMarr...

[Edgy MD]

I'm getting the Marlins feed, with the Mulrooney's commercials running.

[Frayed Knot]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Hagin or Fran X? Who's worse?

The answer to who's worse is always Fran - no matter the competition or even the question.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Lorn Brown.

[metirish]

Fran" arms extended,elevated nervous system" Healy wins in a romp.

[G-Fafif]

Art Shamsky and Tom McCarthy are doing the international broadcast with latter-day Gary Thorne.

[Ceetar]

After much research, I've decided I'm fine with Wayne as a color guy, but don't need his play by play. That's the true awkward stuff.

He may tend towards some stupid analysis at times, but no more than most guys and occasionally has some fun nuggets.

Not that I'd miss him if/when he's gone. Of course, he's better than Mike Francesa.

[Edgy MD]

I think that's more or less a fair assessment. Problem is that it mostly takes Howie Rose out of the color business. But it's not like being a pbp guy ever kept Tim McCarver from offering reflections.

[ashie62]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: One of the commenters raises an interesting question. Who's calling the perpetual Mets-Marlins-at-Moist-Shark-Stadium game (with Pelf starting, natch) in your Metsian purgatory: Hagin or Fran X? Who's worse?

Hagin

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Oh, I forgot about McCarthy. Hoooooboy.

Is it too late for an annex to the Circles of Met Hell, G-Fafif?

[G-Fafif]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Oh, I forgot about McCarthy. Hoooooboy. Is it too late for an annex to the Circles of Met Hell, G-Fafif?

Tom McCarthy broadcast T#m Gl@v!ne's last outing, and we inducted Gl@v!ne into the one-third circle of hell, so by association, he's already on fire.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The problem isn't that Wayne's stupid. I think he has a good amount of knowledge, or you know, enough. But the broadcast requires more than color from him, if it's a color guy you want there are plenty of ex-jocks out there.

Hagin's just a dreadful pbp announcer whose main problem, as Paul says elegantly on that site, is a brain writing checks that his mouth can't cash. It's as though his words lead him down an alley with no escape other than an abrupt, awkward reversal. It's at times impossible to listen to.

I'm not so down on his hokey references, at least he's not trying to be something he's not, and I have a small amount of sympathy for his having to work with Howie who to someone like Hagin probably seems extremely peculiar. I can't really imagine Howie going to a foreign market and call games in the same way we might expect a guy like Hagin to succeed behind any microphone.

Again, it's all about his awkward delivery and the resulting issue of plays unfolding before he can describe them that drives me nuts. If the Mets/660 were to keep him employed it would be worth the investment in 3 weeks of offseason play by play boot camp with a guy like Cohen who's always on top of the unfolding action.

[Frayed Knot]

And speaking of bad (or at least quirky depending on your POV) radio announcers, huge article on John Sterling in today's NYTimes sports section.

[metirish]

Frayed Knot wrote: And speaking of bad (or at least quirky depending on your POV) radio announcers, huge article on John Sterling in today's NYTimes sports section.

early 70's... that was a surprise.


wiki has him at 63 but with ????

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Hagin's just a dreadful pbp announcer whose main problem, as Paul says elegantly on that site, is a brain writing checks that his mouth can't cash. It's as though his words lead him down an alley with no escape other than an abrupt, awkward reversal. It's at times impossible to listen to.

I think this is exactly right. But I think by and large, folks have a very different problem with him. The ship has run into bad luck and he's like the guy in Master and Commander who's always the officer on watch when it happens. When things go bad and folks start looking around for a dog to kick, he seems like less a member of the family.

You've said this before, but it's only really gotten to me the second half of this year. Pitcher gets to a ball but can't make the play at first. He'll go at great length to describe how the pitcher can't get the ball out of his glove. He'll describe his anxiety that forced him to rush, he'll use a metaphor, he'll describe the guy's disappointment in himself after the play. "And here comes the catcher out to the mound to calm him down," he'll say, while I'm still wondering, "THE RUNNER ON THIRD... DID HE SCORE?!

That's the issue. Good team or bad, it's an issue. Wayne isn't without skills, and he'll be working a long time --- long after I've forgotten his name --- but his p-b-p is maddening first hand, night after night.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Frayed Knot wrote: And speaking of bad (or at least quirky depending on your POV) radio announcers, huge article on John Sterling in today's NYTimes sports section.

Great article. I love John Sterling, nobody alive is better suited to chronicle the pomposity of MFY Universe than him. And I kinda appreciate his underlying goofiness. Seriously, I can't listen to a second of Michael Kay call a MFY game but I always tune in Sterling.

[MFS62]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: And speaking of bad (or at least quirky depending on your POV) radio announcers, huge article on John Sterling in today's NYTimes sports section. Great article. I love John Sterling, nobody alive is better suited to chronicle the pomposity of MFY Universe than him. And I kinda appreciate his underlying goofiness. Seriously, I can't listen to a second of Michael Kay call a MFY game but I always tune in Sterling.

Exactly.
I've liked Sterling from the days he used to broadcast Nets games when they played in the ABA.
Nobody says you can't both call a decent game and have a distinct personality.
Baseball fans have appreciated that for years, from Dizzy Dean to Bob Prince to Red Barber to Bob Uecker. The list goes on.
But, to be loved for the second, you have to be able to do the first. And Hagin doesn't.

Later

[ashie62]

Sonny Dove of the Johnnies hits for three putting the Nets up double digits!

[MFS62]

Ashie62 wrote: Sonny Dove of the Johnnies hits for three putting the Nets up double digits!

I can still hear him call that. LOL!
Sterling coined the expression "downtown" for a 3 point shot.
Marv Albert "stole" it and it became one of his trademark calls.

We now return this thread to the topic of how really bad an announcer Hagin is.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

'Yankees win, Yankees win' had the same cadence as 'Islander goal, Islander goal'

My first memory of Sterling was as a sports talk guy on WMCA (a two or so hours/night show well prior to the days of 24-hr sports talk) where he played the acerbic know-it-all who'd cut off callers while screaming, "You don't know what you're talking about - get off my air" to them when he thought they didn't bring enough to the discussion.

[Edgy MD]

I'm going to respond with deep doubt that Sterling coined "downtown" as a term for a three-point shot. On the one hand, it's not particularly clever and must have been used seven seconds after somebody painted a three-point stripe --- or even earlier, simply to refer to a long jump shot.

On the other hand, it's just the kind of un-clever phrasing that Sterling would think is clever, and rush to secure trademark claims on.

[Frayed Knot]

The use of "Downtown" in basketball - whoever coined it - way pre-dated the three-point line.
I guess it's MFS's contention that Sterling was using it in NYC before Marv even though it was he who eventually became more famous for it. On that burning question I have nothing to contribute.

[Edgy MD]

My feeling is that when discussion about a sports broacaster is which coinages he gets credit for, we're in dangerous territory, as his job no longer becomes about delivering the game, but delivering his schtick. And the fact that a guy has a signature call or phrasing becomes somehow something to celebrate whether it's clever or not.

And nowhere is this confusion more prevalent than in the bubble immediately surrounding John Sterling, who clearly stays up nights trying to come up with coinages.

"Hmmm. Russell Martin. 'A dry Martini!' That doesn't make any sense --- he's from Canada, not Italy. 'A northern light!' That's too obscure --- THINK, JOHN, THINK! Russell with the muscle!! That's good, but not good enough! What time is it...?"

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: The use of "Downtown" in basketball - whoever coined it - way pre-dated the three-point line. I guess it's MFS's contention that Sterling was using it in NYC before Marv even though it was he who eventually became more famous for it. On that burning question I have nothing to contribute.

I was a fan of the ABA from its first game. Another announcer of their games (the Spirit of St Louis and later their national tv games) was Bob Costas. I don't recall he ever used the term. Of course, the NBA did not have the three point shot until the leagues merged. So there would have been no need for Marv to use it. But Sterling had been using the term on Nets broadcasts for years.
Since they both were in New York at the time, I believe Marv must have heard Sterling use it and later adopted it as his own.

Later

Edited October 4, 2011 by Guest