Waive Bay

[Ceetar]

http://www.seamheads.com/ballparks/year.php?Year=2010&LgID=All&tab=pf3&sort=Runs1 has it 23rd

multi-year: Batting - 97, Pitching - 98 at B-R, where 100 is average. (YSIII is multi-year: Batting - 110, Pitching - 108)

ESPN this year has Citi at 0.923. 0.711 for home runs, and 0.955 for hits. 23rd for both. but .955 and 23 are not exactly terrible, and ESPN lists CBP as a just slightly pitcher friendly park so..

http://www.parkfactors.com/NYM has them at 26th with a 90 score for the three-year mark. That's closer to neutral than 11 other places. and i don't know how they break down runs/HR but they seem to factor in weather some how. (I'm sure that's precise and accurate right?

It's hard to trust park factors too much, with all the random variation in weather and players in small samples, and even 3 years is still a fairly small sample. It's like judging Pagan's UZR just on 2011.faulty stat. The Mets have struggled at home this year, certainly suppressing the offensive numbers and hurting the park factor. You could make the case that it's because of Citi Field that they're losing, but I just don't see that. It's not like the Mets looked good at so many of these home games and just couldn't muscle it out, nor did the Great Wall of Flushing scare David Wright into making defensive errors.

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Can we please stop talking about bringing in walls as if: a) that's Jason Bay's problem that it would somehow only benefit our team Agreed with FK above. I don't agree with youse guys. I understand your position(s): that if the Citi Field outfield walls are too far and high for the Mets, then they're too far and high for the visitors, too, and that over time, the would be HR's that CF converts into something less -- outs, or some other non-HR hit -- evens out for both sides. I think that there's more at stake here, and that a Met who plays at CF all season, particularly a HR-hitting Met, is likelier to mess up his swing, timing and rhythm than a visiting player who plays, at most, 10 or so CF games a season, but maybe as little as three games. There's more to this than simply comparing the hit tracker data for the Mets and their visiting opponents. The other point I'd make, (and I might have already made it on this forum before. I'm not sure but if I did, apologies for being monotonous, here) is that wealthy teams should build dimensions that are close to neutral, rather than extreme. The Mets, in the long term, will be wealthy again, notwithstanding their current mess. In due time, the Wilpons either get back on their feet again, or sell to an entity that won't be indebted to Picard for hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. Wealthy teams can use their financial leverage to buy power hitters. HR's are baseball's best offensive weapon and the most efficient way to score. OF fences that are too far undermine a team's ability to hit HR's, while fences close in squander the team's power advantage by facilitating the opponent's ability to counter with HR's of their own. This stuff about building an offense around speed and line drives is a bullshit pipe dream, and I can't believe that internally, Alderson really believes this crap. To the extent that he says otherwise publicly, I believe that Alderson's just covering up for the baseball morons that own this team. It's hard to win consistently without power and HR's. Not impossible. But harder.

______________________________

Sandy Alderson is quoted:

"Alderson also appeared to acknowledge the psychological impact of playing 82 home games in a cavernous stadium.

'There is some sense that the park is a little more overwhelming to a team that spends half its time there, as opposed to a team that comes in for three games, doesn�t really have to alter an approach or think about it too much, and leaves,' he said".

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2011/09/alderson-addresses-citi-dimensions

[Ceetar]

translated: "Bay and Wright, among others, have whined about the walls, and it's in our vested interest to placate them."

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think, if there are psychological issues, it would behoove the team to adjust their thinking as much as adjust their dimensions. But whatever, move the wall left, right, up, down. Make it out of glass or make it out of Rice Krispies. I don't care that much, but I'd like to see a stronger-minded team, who can turn their park, whatever it's size or shape, into an asset, based on their familiarity.

The notion that Jason Bay is failing not because the dimensions are eating up Jason Bay's long flies and turning homers into doubles and deep outs, but eating up his confidence and making him a worse player at home and on the road, is really weak if he's actually insinuating it himself. The idea that CitiField's dimensions made Wright's strikeouts spike? He seriously needs an asswhipping from his batting coach.

[Ceetar]

Wright's strikeouts are actually back down to his normalish levels since the DL stint.

The changes won't make Bay better, or give the Mets a better chance to win. It'll just redesign the box score. Which is fine too.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ceetar wrote: Wright's strikeouts are actually back down to his normalish levels since the DL stint.

That's sort of beside the point. I was addressing the notion in the abstract and not necessarily asserting it as such.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: Wright's strikeouts are actually back down to his normalish levels since the DL stint. That's sort of beside the point. I was addressing the notion in the abstract and not necessarily asserting it as such.

I was agreeing with you, specifically citing evidence that it's probably not the walls causing Wright's spike in Ks.

Abstractly, I agree with you. I do find it interesting that the Mets seemingly had a home field advantage the last two years and not so much this year. Collins and Hudgens seem much more stable and able to instill a better approach, but it hasn't neccesarily manifested. I wonder if 2010's much more free swinging, much less work a count attitude let to more balls in play, and more runs as a result.

walks, strikeouts, XBH, AVG, OPS, even BABIP and SB are much the same home and away, yet they've scored more runs away and have more singles. Could just be a quirk of luck. I don't see fielding splits. more GIDP at home, maybe more errors as well?

[ashie62]

The Mets need more talent.

[Benjamin Grimm]

On my lunch hour today, I saw a car with a "Save the Bay" bumper sticker, and I thought of this thread.

If only it had been titled "Waive the Bay"