Deal Me In, A-Rod!

[Guest Edgy DC]

Dude isn't happy unless he's playing with fire. Pressing the mysterious button. Courting disaster. Taunting the dragon. Sleeping with Madonna.

So says The Journal, anywheeze.

MLB Looks Into A-Rod's Poker Games By DANIEL BARBARISI Major League Baseball is starting to shine a brighter light on Alex Rodriguez's alleged participation in illegal high-stakes poker games, and the commissioner's office intends to bring in Rodriguez for questioning on the matter. "We take this very seriously and have been investigating this matter since the initial allegation. As part of the investigation, the Commissioner's Office will interview Mr. Rodriguez," MLB spokesman Pat Courtney said. Baseball sources say it's possible that Rodriguez's' participation in the games could lead to a suspension, if it is determined that he was actually present. According to the initial report in Star Magazine, Rodriguez played in two games at a Beverly Hills mansion in 2009, where drugs were used and a fight nearly broke out after one player lost more than a half-million dollars. Commissioner Bud Selig has spoken with Rodriguez before about his playing in the games, which have allegedly included other celebrities from sport and screen. When the allegations first came to light a month ago, Rodriguez said that he would address it at the proper time, if needed. That time may be coming. Rodriguez could not be reached for comment Wednesday, but he arrives at the Yankees' complex in Tampa Thursday to take the next step in his rehab from knee surgery. The Yankees are not commenting on the investigation, and manager Joe Girardi wanted no part of questions about possible suspensions for his cleanup hitter. Earlier in the season, Rodriguez prompted more MLB scrutiny when it was learned that his cousin, Yuri Sucart, who Rodriguez said fetched him steroids from the Dominican Republic, was still traveling with the team. Sucart is banned from MLB facilities, but neither the Yankees nor MLB can keep him away from the team hotel, where he joined Rodriguez.

[Ceetar]

I don't really have a problem with A-Rod playing poker. He's not breaking any laws, he's not gambling. I'd be extremely disappointed in MLB if they suspended him for that.

[Frayed Knot]

Sports stars playing in super-high stakes games IS a concern to the sport and especially so if they are illegal games (which apparently these are) and even more so if he's previously ben warned about them.

[ashie62]

It was probably Matt Damon and Dicaprio duking it out...

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Sports stars playing in super-high stakes games IS a concern to the sport and especially so if they are illegal games (which apparently these are) and even more so if he's previously ben warned about them.

All games are illegal in which someone profits apart from the actual game. (i.e. takes a rake) but it's not anymore illegal for Alex than it is if he showed up at your bachelor party and played a low stakes poker tourney with winner takes the pot.

Who cares how much money he burns? He's hardly the first to do it (and it's hardly 'high stakes' for him either) and it's not illegal. Sure, he's been warned, but you could also warn him against shopping for Pepsi because Coke Zero is an official sponsor of MLB or some such. I don't think the league should be able to regulate a players actions off the field.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Sheesh. This seems so obvious.

Yes, if the allegations are true, he is gambling.
Yes, if the allegations are true, he is doing illegal things.
Yes, if the allegations are true, he's uncomfortably close to drugs and thugs.
Yes, if the allegations are true, his cousin/pharmacist is still travelling with the team in defiance of an MLB order.

Sheesh, the reason every league wants their players as far away from gamblers and doubly far away from illegal gambling rings is obvious. If he gets in arrears, he becomes susceptible to throwing games to get even and keep them from spreading dirt about him.

Lenny Dykstra was addicted to gambling action before he was addicted to stock market action, and he didn't come clean until the Pete Rose ban.

[metsmarathon]

if the company you worked for had a strict policy prohibiting you from, say, taking photos of various foodstuffs in the office and publishing those photos onto a social media outlet, and there were either implicit or explicit dire warnings about what would befall an employee who did just such a thing, and had previously warned you about doing it in the past, would you still do it?

if you disagree with a rule, you challenge it. you don't dumbly break it and hope to evade either detection or consequence. alex hasn't shown that he thinks the rule is wrong, only that he thinks it shouldn't apply to him.

caffeine isn't illegal, and is generally safe, but downing too much of it can cause you to fail an NCAA drug test. if you were a collegiate athlete, and especially if you were subject to testing, do you really think you'd be downing no-doze?

and i think it's fairly well established that mlb isn't terribly keen on gambling as an off-field activity because of the possibility that it may bleed over the lines and become an on-field issue.

[Ceetar]

metsmarathon wrote: if the company you worked for had a strict policy prohibiting you from, say, taking photos of various foodstuffs in the office and publishing those photos onto a social media outlet, and there were either implicit or explicit dire warnings about what would befall an employee who did just such a thing, and had previously warned you about doing it in the past, would you still do it?

if I had a guaranteed contract with no mention of poker AND a really really powerful union? yeah, I would.

Especially, to continue the analogy, if the power was out so I couldn't do my work (on the DL).

My main issue here is it's not gambling (and this becomes a political issue that I could go on and on about too). It's not gambling anymore than Alex putting a pitch in play is gambling for a hit against BABIP.

The bigger issue is the other illegal activity going on there, turning it into an underground poker game into an illegal den of activity that very well could contain things that are a problem. But that's probably not any bigger a deal than Alex being in the same doctors office who was arrested for illegal substances. And they didn't do anything about that.

Also, the guy's his freaking cousin. Yeah, he's helped him with illegal activity in the past, but he's probably not the mastermind criminal that people seem to make him out to be. It's one of his close friends and family.

[Frayed Knot]

My main issue here is it's not gambling ... It's not gambling anymore than Alex putting a pitch in play is gambling for a hit against BABIP.

You're seriously sticking with this as your main argument?

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: My main issue here is it's not gambling ... It's not gambling anymore than Alex putting a pitch in play is gambling for a hit against BABIP. You're seriously sticking with this as your main argument?

it's not gambling. it's a game of skill that contains an element of luck.

it's not an argument, it's just how the game is. (Presuming he was playing Texas Hold 'Em like he has in the past anyway and not something more random)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Everything is gambling. I didn't commute to work this morning, I gambled that the train wouldn't crash. I gambled that the bodega guy would give me a copy of the Snooze for 75 cents -- and won!

I'm making a bet RIGHT NOW that this message gets successfully posted on the cpf.

(to be continued)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: E I'm making a bet RIGHT NOW that this message gets successfully posted on the cpf.

ka-ching!

[metirish]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: E I'm making a bet RIGHT NOW that this message gets successfully posted on the cpf. ka-ching!

I doubled down............. and won

Ceetar , I enjoy you very much on the forum but there are times I think you take a position on a subject that is contrary to any other thinking and contrary to the obvious and you refuse or just can't get off your line of thinking.


It's obvious to me that this is one of those times.An intervention might be needed.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: E I'm making a bet RIGHT NOW that this message gets successfully posted on the cpf. ka-ching! I doubled down............. and won Ceetar , I enjoy you very much on the forum but there are times I think you take a position on a subject that is contrary to any other thinking and contrary to the obvious and you refuse or just can't get off your line of thinking. It's obvious to me that this is one of those times.An intervention might be needed.

I think I like to poke at loopholes or inaccuracies and people poke back and think I'm saying something about the whole topic when I'm not.


Hanging out with people doing drugs and running illegal games is one thing, and not good. (especially if there was real wagering going on) Having his cousin meet him outside stadiums or in team hotels or other such places where work meets home is an issue.

but actually playing poker is not. It's also not illegal. (Although I'm sure you could make a case for aiding and abetting the running of an illegal game) It already really pisses me off that they continue to make it harder to play poker in this country.


If you want to su spend Alex for something, suspend him for ducking federal investigators with the Galea case. Not for recreational activities.

[Guest sharpie]

Look, I enjoy playing poker (and anyone who wants to start a game, count me in). I enjoy the camaraderie and, yes, there is skill involved with the luck.

That being said, I do remember Tim McCarver once talking regarding Pete Rose about how from the very first day that you are a major league ballplayer the "No Gambling" rule is drilled into your head.

There's no way that Rodriguez could have not known that what he was doing could get him in trouble if discovered. He's a rich, arrogant guy, however, who thinks rules don't apply to him.

Throw the book at him, Bud.

Ceetar, how is getting "harder to play poker in this country." Idiots lose money on on-line poker all the time, there are Indian casinos within a short reach of most people and there are friendly games everywhere. I don't get that contention at all.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mercy sakes.

Ceetar wrote: Hanging out with people doing drugs and running illegal games is one thing, and not good. (especially if there was real wagering going on) Having his cousin meet him outside stadiums or in team hotels or other such places where work meets home is an issue.

Since these are the primary issues, I don't understand what's going on here. And you just flip-flopped on your stance regarding his cousin.

but actually playing poker is not. It's also not illegal. (Although I'm sure you could make a case for aiding and abetting the running of an illegal game) It already really pisses me off that they continue to make it harder to play poker in this country.

The reports specifically describe these games as illegal.

Ceetar wrote: If you want to su spend Alex for something, suspend him for ducking federal investigators with the Galea case. Not for recreational activities.

Two-handed head-clutcher.

[Ceetar]

sharpie wrote: Ceetar, how is getting "harder to play poker in this country." Idiots lose money on on-line poker all the time, there are Indian casinos within a short reach of most people and there are friendly games everywhere. I don't get that contention at all.

(A-Rod's been playing poker since he got to NY, probably longer. If there is really an issue with him playing, they'd already of suspended him)

As for poker, they've repeatedly changed the laws about banking (in regards to poker/online casinos) over the last couple of years, as recently as earlier this year. Making it more difficult to transfer your own money from your own bank to an online site. They've never allowed you to use a credit card (the online sites have a merchant code that the cards specifically block) and they've shut down, and frozen assets, some of the more common online bank account sides like epassporte and many others that I can remember the names of. As a result of this, many sites (including ones that only do poker, don't also do casino style games or wagering like some do) have actually blocked US players from playing (PokerStars more recently, PartyPoker a couple of years ago) One of my friends was planning on moving from Las Vegas recently, but this recent change make it less likely he can adaquately sustain a living with the reduced online game.

As far as in-person casinos, that at least has gotten somewhat better. They've been loosening the laws in some states, like Pennsylvania, allowing table games and Poker, and who knows, maybe NY will eventually follow suit instead of having everyone go to NJ, CT and PA to spend their money. (aside, was a rumor about a casino at Nassau Colliseum site, which would've been cool imo and a huge moneymaker for the county too) But there are no real casinos in this area (A bunch up in Western NY) so even if they did put in a poker room at Yonkers RAceway, i'm not sure they have to space to really make it worthwhile.

[Guest Edgy DC]

sharpie wrote: Ceetar, how is getting "harder to play poker in this country." Idiots lose money on on-line poker all the time, there are Indian casinos within a short reach of most people and there are friendly games everywhere. I don't get that contention at all.

Yeah, I grew up in a country where gambling was illegal in 48 states. Now it's getting to be more the norm than the exception.

[Ceetar]

who knows what the primary issue is? I don't think that's clear.

The games are illegal, playing in them isn't. What's illegal is profiting from game play. (taking a rake or a percentage of a pot or charging per hour to play) not actually winning money from another player. Running the game is illegal, playing in it isn't.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ceetar wrote: (A-Rod's been playing poker since he got to NY, probably longer. If there is really an issue with him playing, they'd already of suspended him)

If I had three hands, this would be a three-handed head clutcher. Perhaps the facts that are now in the league's possession will compel them to act, whereas the facts that they had before did not. This may perhaps be because he's escalated his behavior or because they've escalated their investigation.

I mean,

(A-Rod's been [using Wistriol] since he got to NY, probably longer. If there is really an issue with him [using], they'd already of suspended him)

([Representative Wu]'s been [forcing himself on teenagers] since he got to [Congress], probably longer. If there is really an issue with him [using], they'd already of suspended him)

It just doesn't fly.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ceetar wrote: who knows what the primary issue is? I don't think that's clear. The games are illegal, playing in them isn't. What's illegal is profiting from game play. (taking a rake or a percentage of a pot or charging per hour to play) not actually winning money from another player. Running the game is illegal, playing in it isn't.

Four-handed head-clutcher.

[Ceetar]

you're getting off of what I said.

Yes, if there are additional facts about this particular party that give cause to suspend, okay. But not just because they don't like him playing poker and told him not to.

I'm _NOT_ saying that because they didn't suspend him last time they can't suspend him this time. (I'm also not looking to read precident from how baseball handled Ty Cobb, or Mickey Mantle, or anyone else for decades and decades ago. Different world.)

The guy won a freaking World Series, and went out with friends to a party in LA with friends and had a good time playing a game he enjoys. (Well, another game he enjoys anyway) This is cause for suspension?

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm not getting off of what you said. (I'm not getting off at all.) As long as you contend that participating in high stakes poker games is not gambling, I don't think any of us can reconcile what you're writing here. It seems like we're all at least a little confused.

The guy won a freaking World Series, and went out with friends to a party in LA with friends and had a good time playing a game he enjoys. (Well, another game he enjoys anyway) This is cause for suspension?

Well, sure, if he won the World Series... What in the world? Where's my fifth hand?

[metirish]

Your Honor , for the defense I call Ceetar




Son , are you sure you want to do that, I do no like wasting the courts time.

[Gwreck]

California Penal Code Section 330

330. Every person who deals, plays, or carries on, opens, or causes
to be opened, or who conducts, either as owner or employee, whether
for hire or not, any game of faro, monte, roulette, lansquenet, rouge
et noire, rondo, tan, fan-tan, seven-and-a-half, twenty-one,
hokey-pokey, or any banking or percentage game played with cards,
dice, or any device, for money, checks, credit, or other
representative of value, and every person who plays or bets at or
against any of those prohibited games, is guilty of a misdemeanor,
and shall be punishable by a fine not less than one hundred dollars
($100) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, or by both
the fine and imprisonment.

[Guest Edgy DC]

And we already know about his hokey-pokey.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceetar wrote: who knows what the primary issue is? I don't think that's clear.

Not for nothing but you could just make this your signature.

[metirish]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ceetar wrote: who knows what the primary issue is? I don't think that's clear. Not for nothing but you could just make this your signature.

Lolz

[Ceetar]

Well what sports have an issue with is sports wagering. The concern they have with other forms of gambling is that it could be some sort of 'gateway drug' towards gambling on sports, or may put them in contact with gamblers who may, whether through greed or debt, convince a player to affect the outcome of a game.

but there is a difference between an addictive gambler that needs to feed this addiction, and a socialite that enjoys a game of skill that involves the wagering of money.

Yes, by definition poker is gambling. It's a game of skill in which you make a series of bets that you have a better hand than all the opponents. (That's vasty simplifying it) But the main point of the game is to outsmart your opponent, to play better than them, to outthink them. And that aspect of it certainly seems to fit more with A-Rod's character than simply betting on an undetermined outcome. People make a living doing this. They have a whole casino with only poker just outside of LA.


Gwreck: okay, maybe I'm wrong on that. (or maybe NY is different.) I don't know what the phrase "banking or percentage game played with cards" means either. Presumably this was one those. Sounds like that's what I was saying about the rake though. (being the 'bank'. This is why when you play poker in your house with your friends it's not illegal, because their is no percentage/bank. But I hadn't thought _playing_ in it was illegal.)

I actually think it'd be worse if A-Rod was in Vegas than what sounds like was essentially a frat party.

[Ceetar]

One of these days we have to have these arguments at a game or something. too much typing.