Jason Bay

[Benjamin Grimm]

So far this year: 6 extra base hits (4 doubles and 2 homers) in 140 at bats.

And three of those XBH came in April, in which he only played 9 games. He started out fairly non-sucky, but that didn't last.

[smg58]

I guess we're treating the Ollie contract as a re-signing?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Bay's career Mets stats are very similar to Cleon Jones' dreadful 1967 season, Lee Mazzilli's 1977 rookie campaign and John Stearns' 1979 season.

[smg58]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He started out fairly non-sucky, but that didn't last.

Which allows for at least some possibility that, like Wright, there's a medical reason behind his hitting woes (at least the recent ones).

[Ceetar]

I'm going to stick to the "first year in NY" thing. He only really got about half a year last year, so if we assume a 'full season' is about 150 games, he's at 134. So let's say he sucks for roughly 16 more games, Sits in three of them, and reawakens on the second homestand against the Yankees, hitting 9 RBI on Friday night including a 3-run dinger off the opposite foul pole that's initially ruled in play.

[ashie62]

smg58 wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: He started out fairly non-sucky, but that didn't last. Which allows for at least some possibility that, like Wright, there's a medical reason behind his hitting woes (at least the recent ones).

I'm going with the quasi medical reason of "aging."

[ashie62]

Ceetar wrote: I'm going to stick to the "first year in NY" thing. He only really got about half a year last year, so if we assume a 'full season' is about 150 games, he's at 134. So let's say he sucks for roughly 16 more games, Sits in three of them, and reawakens on the second homestand against the Yankees, hitting 9 RBI on Friday night including a 3-run dinger off the opposite foul pole that's initially ruled in play.

You predicted Bay would breakout in the first MFY series...It's one thing to be optimistic..but..cmon.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I know. I'm really starting to realize how tiresome "optimism" can be.

[Ceetar]

Ashie62 wrote: Ceetar wrote: I'm going to stick to the "first year in NY" thing. He only really got about half a year last year, so if we assume a 'full season' is about 150 games, he's at 134. So let's say he sucks for roughly 16 more games, Sits in three of them, and reawakens on the second homestand against the Yankees, hitting 9 RBI on Friday night including a 3-run dinger off the opposite foul pole that's initially ruled in play. You predicted Bay would breakout in the first MFY series...It's one thing to be optimistic..but..cmon.

Because your guesses for why he's slumping are any better?

Edited June 10, 2011 by Guest

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

The Fregosi comparison is really pretty galling.

[MFS62]

As I've mentioned before, I am still trying to get my head around some of the newer statistical measurements. The one I've struggled with is WAR (wins above replacement player). I had heard this is the ultimate scrubbenie, a composite of statistics of someone barely on the 25 man roster. But I've never been able to envision the productivity of that baseline player.
I just looked at Jason Bay's stat line for the year.
Now I understand.

Later

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Bobby Bonilla? He was a jerk, but he produced

I feel obligated to defend my boy:

Why was he a jerk?

Was it because Mets fans started abusing him without provocation because he didn't live up to his billing as the next Darryl Strawberry (and they were still pissed cos Strawberry bailed?)

Or because he became the fall guy for a team of under-performing, overpriced malcontents, even though he was one of the few that gave them what they bargained for?

Or because he stood-up for the organization against a person who made a career defecating on the Mets?'

[Benjamin Grimm]

Okay, I'll amend that to say that he was perceived as a jerk. (I never had a problem with him either, although the earplugs thing was pretty stupid. And didn't he make a stink about an official scorer's call? Maybe he was a bit of a jerk.)

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Okay, I'll amend that to say that he was perceived as a jerk. (I never had a problem with him either, although the earplugs thing was pretty stupid. And didn't he make a stink about an official scorer's call? Maybe he was a bit of a jerk.)

Perceived is exactly right. Here are some things I've heard Mets fans say about Bonilla:
1. Bonilla juiced because he was under the radar for so long.
2. Bonilla cajoled Vince Coleman to throw the firecracker. Variant: Bonilla didn't stop Vince Coleman from throwing the firecracker.
3. Bonilla interfered with Doc's rehab.
4. Bonilla hung-out with the wrong people while he was in New York (from a CPFer!).
5. Bonilla's introductory press conference reminded me of Gary Carter's (implying they were both phonies) (from his UM Memories page).
6. Bonilla had an arrangement with the Braves to disrupt the Mets during the 1999 NLCS.

Doug Pappas (Lord, bless his soul) summed-it perfectly once: "If Bonilla was on the Mets between 85-90, he could have put up exactly the same numbers and behaved exactly the same way, and he would have been revered by Mets fans on par with HoJo, Dykstra or Mazzilli".

[batmagadanleadoff]

"If Bonilla was on the Mets between 85-90, he could have put up exactly the same numbers and behaved exactly the same way, and he would have been revered by Mets fans on par with HoJo, Dykstra or Mazzilli".

And if Warren Spahn was a Met in the 1950's, he'd'a had the queen's balls. Put me down in the Bonilla was a big freaking jerk who produced for the Mets the first time around camp.

But back to Bay. And what others are saying about Citi Field:

Collins hoped a few games away from Citi Field would be good for Bay, but that hasn't been the case, though [Howard] Johnson [bay's 2010 hitting coach] agreed it's become an issue. "There's no question that now it's a factor," Johnson said of Bay, who had just six homers and 47 RBIs in 95 games before a concussion ended his first season with the Mets last July. "We had a lot of conversations about that last year. Just driving in some runs isn't good enough for him. In baseball, you're paid for what you did in the past.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/gee_whiz_mets_keep_on_rolling_IKhFwrEhUo67E2LTD2RmlM#ixzz1OyMa9XS1

[Ceetar]

That struck me as a comment on the fans and booing and psyche. but maybe.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: That struck me as a comment on the fans and booing and psyche. but maybe.

You might be right. The article doesn't explain whether CF's dimensions, or its' booing fans, or something else is the issue. I assumed Hojo was referring to its' dimensions.

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: That struck me as a comment on the fans and booing and psyche. but maybe. You might be right. The article doesn't explain whether CF's dimensions, or its' booing fans, or something else is the issue. I assumed Hojo was referring to its' dimensions.

I assumed Hojo should shut up. Jason Bay was not really driving in runs last year, and that's part of the reason he lost his job.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: And if Warren Spahn was a Met in the 1950's, he'd'a had the queen's balls.

What the fuck does mean?

The point was that the were far worse "jerks" on the 1986 Mets that fans chose to ignore because they were a winning team. Bonilla was a scapegoat.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Put me down in the Bonilla was a big freaking jerk who produced for the Mets the first time around camp.

Not as half a big freaking jerk as you.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

"I believe what we were looking for there, D, was 'Your Mama.' 'Your... Mama.' You had the last correct answer, so it's still your board."

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I don't have a big problem with Bonilla, round one. Not entirely his fault that he was thrust into a leadership role he was not suited for. I think fans expected him to carry a team, when in fact his is a better complimentary player.

Klapisch was trying to -- and succeeded in -- push Bonilla's buttons. I liked that he stood up to Klap, but wish he had done it in a better way. Offering to show him the Bronx was the read meat that Klap was looking for.

I've got a Bonilla road jersey that I got at Manny's Baseball Land outlet store on sale. It's a neat jersey.

[batmagadanleadoff]

The Second Spitter wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: And if Warren Spahn was a Met in the 1950's, he'd'a had the queen's balls. What the fuck does mean? The point was that the were far worse "jerks" on the 1986 Mets that fans chose to ignore because they were a winning team. Bonilla was a scapegoat. batmagadanleadoff wrote: Put me down in the Bonilla was a big freaking jerk who produced for the Mets the first time around camp. Not as half a big freaking jerk as you.

I see your logic. Bonilla's not a jerk because there were jerks on the '86 Mets. And me, today I'm a jerk because I think Bonilla's a jerk. Yesterday I was a jerk because I wondered if Wright might've complained in private, to Francoeur about Citi Field. Two months ago, I was a jerk because you cheated on Lunchie's rawk quiz. I'm always a jerk if my opinion isn't consistent with yours, or probably anybody else's. And I'm especially always a jerk whenever I respond in kind, to posters who call me a jerk.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Guest

[batmagadanleadoff]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: "I believe what we were looking for there, D, was 'Your Mama.' 'Your... Mama.' You had the last correct answer, so it's still your board."

Did you just call me a jerk, too? Because I'm honestly not sure, but would like to know.

[G-Fafif]

I can't believe Jason Bay has been benched from his own thread.

[Benjamin Grimm]

He must be a jerk!

[ashie62]

He owns the jerkstore.

[metirish]

Not taking sides here but not seeing where batmag is being a jerk here.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: "I believe what we were looking for there, D, was 'Your Mama.' 'Your... Mama.' You had the last correct answer, so it's still your board." Did you just call me a jerk, too? Because I'm honestly not sure, but would like to know.

Nah. Just having fun with the what-the-hell-was-that ad hominem.

[MFS62]

When the Mets signed Bobby B, Massive Mike and the Cretinous Canine (Francessa and Russo) were negotiating their own contracts (for $400,000 IIRC). If you listened to their show back then, they always seemed to be insanely jealous of the contracts the players got.
When the terms of Bonilla's contract were announced, and for as long as he stayed with the club, they called him "The $29 million dollar man". They always made it sound as though that was his salary for one year, not the entire contract, and that he should be expected to put up incredible numbers.

That said, with the exception of one short time, Bobby always hustled and, as he said when he signed, he gave the fans the numbers "on the back of his baseball card".
I never had any problem with him.

Later

[dgwphotography]

I never had a problem with him. Bonilla's biggest problem is that the Mets expected him to be something he wasn't, a cornerstone to be built around.

I remember one opening weekend (1999?) when he stayed in the line up and played on basically one leg, because Piazza was on the DL - the invective hurled at him from the fans was unbelievable. Here was a guy playing hurt for the team, and just being vilified by the crowd. I never understood it.