Barry Bonds

[Guest Number 6]

Barry Bonds is on trial for perjury, and I have absolutely no interest in defending him. He�s an egotist, a malcontent, and a misanthrope. He made the wrong decision, regardless of the degree of culpability assigned him given the backdrop of the same mistakes made by his colleagues. Barry Bonds didn�t invent steroids, nor did he pioneer their usage. He wasn�t the first to choose them, nor the last. But he chose them nonetheless, and he lied about them, and he�s impugned himself and his record to an insurmountable extent as a result.

Now that�s been said, I will throw it all away, and say that I don�t care. Barry Bonds was the best player I am likely to see in my lifetime. If we�re allowed to equate sport with art (and I feel that permission here should surely be granted), Barry Bonds was a one-man Renaissance. If you were to create a Hall of Fame for the truly transcendent talents - not just superlative athletes, but a class of true batsmith genius � how many would be enshrined? Ruth, Williams, Mays, Wagner, Cobb� Bonds?

Ruth is generally considered to be the greatest of all time, the Beatles of batsmen. But, didn�t the Beatles have an advantage? The �greatest� title must be reserved for pioneers; if you did it first, you don�t just have ability, you have ingenuity. Through your transcendent skill, intelligence, and attitude, you push a raw art beyond its nascent boundaries. You force upon it, whether by will or by the sheer force of your blunt talent, the new rules and ideas that are the inevitable evolution of your game. You are a genius, but you are also a perfect storm.

Who was as big as Ruth? At the time, Ruth didn�t look like a ballplayer to most. But that paradigm quickly became irrelevant, obsolete � a testament to ignorance. Today, we have any number of players who have the body and build of Ruth, or Cobb, or Wagner. Fewer rules, fewer expectations. Results rule. Your nationality, your height, your color, your personality, your girth, your family history - all are increasingly subservient to what you�re capable of in the quick moments following your step to the plate, or your kick of the rubber. While it�s possible that not everything�s been done, what constitutes baseball has greatly expanded since Ruth ruled the roost. We watch and love a refined game. If you�re the latest to prove your genius, you are, necessarily, standing on the shoulders of Giants.

I believe that obliterating the framework of an evolved art is a greater accomplishment than pushing a raw art into previously uncharted territory. Yes, Ruth was the one true pioneer of power. But tell me, how often was he intentionally walked, in a two-run game, with the bases loaded?

You could call it denial, and maybe you�d be right. But I was there for the Barry Bonds Renaissance, and I plan on treasuring it.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Well, I can't disagree with any of that. I just kinda wish it didn't happen like it did.

[Guest Edgy DC]

If Ruth is the Beatles Barry Bonds is maybe Nirvana.

[Guest sharpie]

Cobb is Elvis
Wagner is Chuck Berry
Mays is the Rolling Stones
Williams is Led Zeppelin

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mantle:The Who
Musial: Buddy Holly

[Theoldmole]

Robinson: Otis Redding

[metirish]

Jeter is David Cassidy


man this thread went pear shaped in a hurry.....good post #6

[Guest Number 6]

Oh, I like where this thread is going.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I know it was just a brainstorming thing, but Bonds-as-Nirvana-- the differing career shape, the differing sort of impact-- is kind of sticking in my craw. Only, I'm not sure where else to go with that. Bonds as Radiohead, Bonds as Jay-Z?

If anything, someone like Sosa's more Nirvana. Out of nowhere, whambam impact, avatar of a wave of sluggers, then a crash.

[metirish]

Ron Darling is Radiohead surely

It's cool to say you like Radiohead even when you don't cos they make music for intelligent people and it's always nice to drop them in a conversation , just like it's always nice to name drop Darling in any conversation about college baseball....

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

If I were making your case, I'd go Darling as Pixies, with... Adam Dunn as Radiohead? But actually, I think the Pixies are Barry Larkin, mebbe.

This is, by a long way, the most Klosterman thread I've ever seen in here.

[Gwreck]

sharpie wrote: Mays is the Rolling Stones

If Ruth is the Beatles, I think Gehrig is the Rolling Stones. And Mays is Springsteen.

[G-Fafif]

Bonds is Michael Jackson: No denying the greatness let alone track record, but after a while who could bear to watch?

A-Rod is Madonna. Mike Schmidt was Elton John. Dale Murphy was Huey Lewis.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ooh... Michael Jackson is it, almost exactly, right down to the split career.

Mays is a perfect Stones.

Gehrig's, like, Cream.

[HahnSolo]

Gwreck wrote: If Ruth is the Beatles, I think Gehrig is the Rolling Stones. And Mays is Springsteen.

I'm Springsteen? Come on man!

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm so clueless about this stuff that I can't tell if these analogies have made the transition from serious to ironic.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Gary Carter = Sammy Hagar
Nomar Garciaparra = the Strokes
Julio Franco = the Isley Brothers

[Guest Edgy DC]

G-Fafif wrote: A-Rod is Madonna.

Works at so many levels that it hurts.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Sid Fernandez is Lord Sutch
Heinie Manush is Quicksilver Messenger Service. That's an obvious one.
Warren Spahn is The Hindu Love Gods.
Gary Carter is Tom Jones.

[G-Fafif]

In terms of rewriting the record book from page 1, Albert Pujols is Garth Brooks.

[metirish]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: If I were making your case, I'd go Darling as Pixies, with... Adam Dunn as Radiohead? But actually, I think the Pixies are Barry Larkin, mebbe. This is, by a long way, the most Klosterman thread I've ever seen in here.

I can see that , Darling and the Pixies career overlapped too , although the Pixies were hitting it big when Ron was toiling in the AL, and let's be honest here , most anyone I knew who liked the Pixies were chancers , upper middle class poofters really, Darling often gives me that vibe too, like his shit don't stink.

Adman Dunn is Coldplay no?, the wankers Radiohead....Dunn being the wankers version of a good outfielder

Dunn is Coldplay - mindless bollox

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm going with George Brett as The Velvet Underground. Tony Gwynn is The Temptations.

[metirish]

Edgy DC wrote: I'm going with George Brett as The Velvet Underground. Tony Gwynn is The Temptations.

reasons?, we need reasons, more fun.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

But see... Radiohead actually IS good. (At least, for stretches.)

Ooh, wait... I've got it. Ichiro is Radiohead. Everyone swears he's good, a unique "game-changer"... only nobody can really put it into words that nail it. And is he REALLY that good, or is he just the evolutionary Yes (George Sisler)?

[metirish]

I like it , Ichiro could even pass for Thom Yorke on a dark night....so good they are boring really right?

we probably won't really appreciate either until they are long gone....

[Guest Number 6]

metirish wrote: upper middle class poofters

Note to self: use this phrase sometime in the next 24 hours.

[Guest Edgy DC]

metirish wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I'm going with George Brett as The Velvet Underground. Tony Gwynn is The Temptations. reasons?, we need reasons, more fun.

The Temps and Tony were both clean cut, classy, and chivalrous but with a burning fire within. They didn't dominate their era but left behind an imponderable number of hit singles.

VU and Brett? Isn't it obvous?

[metirish]

Obvious now of course.....Lou Reed had himself a few tar incidents too I bet...smoked that shit.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Oh. OH.

If Schmidt's Elton John, though, wouldn't Brett be Billy Joel?

[TransMonk]

The CPF is the Derek Jeter of matching HOFers with their comparable musicians.