Maine: Mad

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Can somebody tell me how Jerry showed him up on the mound? I was entering the park at the time. He walked out there with everone else, said "you're out" or whatever, turned around and walked off. No interaction, conversation, or practice pitch. Didn't ask him what was hurting, didn't walk off with him (something Ron Darling harped on)

Wouldn't he be waiting to hand the ball off to the reliever?

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Edgy DC wrote: Can somebody tell me how Jerry showed him up on the mound? I was entering the park at the time.

Warthen came out, then Manuel. They spoke with Maine briefly, then Manuel called for Valdes turned toward the dugout with a 'come with me' move, and started walking.

One little thing I noticed during the replays - when Manuel and Maine were jawing in the dugout Warthen was there, and the coaches were beside them, but Lil' Sarge came down from the other end of the bench to take a drink of water and stand there, likely to help ensure that nothing got out of hand. The guy can't play worth a damn, but that was a veteran move right there.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

It was nothing. To see it in the park you'd think there was just an injury on the last pitcher or whatever.

Mike Vaccaro of the Post (who like me thinks Jerry oughta be fired) brings it strong in his condemnation of Maine and support for Jerry last night (just like me).

Vac's Friday Whacks on Maine's Insubordination, Rising Rays and Two Great Sit-Coms ... By MIKE VACCARO There is a lot you can criticize Jerry Manuel for, and then there is what happened last night with his starting pitcher, John Maine . Five days ago in Miami, Maine looked scared to death at the notion of serving as a stopper for a Mets' losing streak that stood at three on its way to five, throwing 12 straight balls to start the game. Last night, handed a quick 3-0 lead in Washington, he threw three balls to Nyger Morgan , spiced things up with a called strike on a 43-mph fastball, issued a walk, bent over at the waist, looked in distress. Forget that Manuel is in no position to have lots of patience to see if Maine could work his way out of this; neither are the Mets. Later on, as the Mets tried very hard to blow a 10-1 lead (on the same day the Braves had earlier scored seven in the ninth to pull off a miracle comeback), you could sense the fatalism of Mets fans reaching a launching point; nobody likes to think of a game on May the 20th as a must-win. But all things considered, this was. Dan Warthen , the pitching coach, determined Maine wasn't right. So did Rod Barajas , the catcher. And so Manuel waved to the bullpen, ending Maine's night -- rightly -- after just five Florida State League-level pitches. "He said he would loosen up and then we saw 82, 83," Manuel explained later. "I told him I didn't want take a chance. He wanted to pitch. We got into a little exchange about that. I told him I was trying to protect his best interests." Warthen: "We just didn't think John had enough to compete,. When he's throwing that way, there's gotta be something incorrect in that arm. John's a habitual liar in a lot of ways about his own health. We have to be the boss out there." Barajas: "He didn't look right." For what it's worth, later on, SNY's Bob Ojeda -- the network's rapidly improving studio analyst who is no house organ by any means -- would show precisely what was wrong with Maine's mechanics, and would back up the decision to pull him by showing plain-sight reasons why his fastball was hovering in the low-80s, a prime candidate for getting pounded by the Nats' big bats. But Maine, even hours afterward, was still angry. And started spewing pure, unfiltered nonsense. "It was the first batter of game," Maine said. "Cut me a little bit of slack. They want to see 95 [mph] and didn't see it. . . . I'm sure he doesn't have any confidence in me." And: "I felt pain for two years. I'm over it. I'm well enough to pitch. I'm telling them everything that's going on." And: "I didn't get asked and that's what I'm concerned about. They never asked see how I was. They just said, 'You're out.'" And: "I don't have enough clout. I don't have enough star power to say anything. I would like an explanation. Me throwing 85 miles an hour, I don't think is a good explanation for me to be taken out of the game." Manuel confronted Maine Billy Martin -style in the dugout (without the ready fists), and it was one of the best moments of his tenure as manager. Maine doesn't have any clout? You bet he doesn't. Not only has he missed most of the last tw years with a shoulder ailment, but his first stint on the DL in 2008 was immediately preceded by an event eerily similar to this one, Manuel and Warten walking to the mound, taking the ball away, and Maine stomping off into the dugout with a pout on his face. Within a week he was disabled. Manuel said he didn't want to be responsible for ending an athlete's career, that he's paid to be the grown-up, and if that's the case it's especially noble. But Manuel is also in the position now where he must win as many games as he can, and he wasn't about to let Maine throw batting practice with a man already on and Ryan Zimmerman , Adam Dunn and Josh Willingham waiting. If you want to credit Maine for grit, fine, grant him those points. But if you want a real culprit, you might want to turn to Omar Minaya , who basically said that Mike Pelfrey , Maine and Oliver Perez weren't fighting for jobs in spring training. Pelfrey, despire a terrible spring, rose above that entitlement issue, and has had a terrific year, mostly because he has All-Star stuff. Perez is already in the bullpen. And Maine, with exactly one above-average big-league season under his belt (from a time when he routinely threw 95 and 96 mph) has been spotty at best. No, he doesn't have enough clout, and shouldn't. No, he doesn't deserve to be cut any slack. He is John Maine, reclamation project, at a time when the Mets can't afford to be holding open auditions on the pitcher's mound. He should shut up, starting right now. But he did provide his manager one moment to shine, at least, especially if it was one of his final opportunities to do so.

[batmagadanleadoff]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: It was nothing. To see it in the park you'd think there was just an injury on the last pitcher or whatever. Mike Vaccaro of the Post (who like me thinks Jerry oughta be fired) brings it strong in his condemnation of Maine and support for Jerry last night (just like me).

And me. Don't forget about me. I'm not gonna blame Jerry for managing a win ... or not wanting to wait for Maine to walk a few batters right before giving up a 450 foot bomb to Adam Dunn.

[ashie62]

DFA Maine, Jerry still goes

[Guest Edgy DC]

Seems like he's either (a) already hit the beer, ( been crying or is on the verge, or © both.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5206146

[Zvon]

Edgy DC wrote: Seems like he's either (a) already hit the beer, ( been crying or is on the verge, or (c) both.

It really does.
Maine is saying things I've already read so what he says is no surprise,
but to see him saying it, looking the way he does there....
that's a little distressing.

[ashie62]

It's never ez when you know it's time to scrape off the uniform

[Ceetar]

StevePopper tweets: Maine is here - not in sight - and has not seen a doctor. #mets

[A Boy Named Seo]

Edgy DC wrote: Seems like he's either (a) already hit the beer, ( been crying or is on the verge, or (c) both. http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5206146

Burkhardt or Maine? You guys see glassy-eyed Kev behind Jerry? He looked like I felt when I woke up this morning after last night's little bender.

[Ceetar]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Seems like he's either (a) already hit the beer, ( been crying or is on the verge, or (c) both. http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5206146 Burkhardt or Maine? You guys see glassy-eyed Kev behind Jerry? He looked like I felt when I woke up this morning after last night's little bender.

He's got a toddler at home doesn't he? I've heard those things are tiring.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Maine is headed to the 15-day DL with "shoulder weakness" with Elmer Dessens taking his spot.

[G-Fafif]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Maine is headed to the 15-day DL with "shoulder weakness" with Elmer Dessens taking his spot.

Dessens, out of madness.

[ashie62]

The inmates are running the asylum

[Frayed Knot]

Ashie62 wrote: The inmates are running the asylum

Let's review here; Maine doesn't want to come out of the game, doesn't want to get examined, and doesn't want to be put on the DL but all those happen anyway.
So how does this add up to the inmates running things?

[Guest Kong76]

It's that new math they were pushin' in the 70's.

[Ceetar]

Regardless, is it really okay to mock your players as a manager?

Maine swore he burned to pitch so badly he would "throw left-handed" if he had to. Informed of this claim, Manuel replied: "That's out of the question. But he might have more stuff lefty, I don't know. I might try that."

Are we basically not going to see Maine again because Manuel doesn't want to? That's hardly a fair way to judge pitchers, let's just cut them, no chance he'll ever figure it out right? That's never turned out badly before..

[metirish]

Was he mocking him or just having some fun?, I would really like to see the video but I would guess Jerry wasn't mocking him.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Come on, Ceetar.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Was he mocking him or just having some fun?, I would really like to see the video but I would guess Jerry wasn't mocking him.

I've long since grown tired of Jerry avoiding questions by making silly jokes, whether it's at his pitcher (who he might not even be communicating with, isn't on good terms with, etc) 's expense, or Hanley Ramirez (and I'm always good to make fun of him in general). Whether or not it's "all in good fun" doesn't really mean much to me. He's making jokes about something that needs to be fixed. making problems funny doesn't make them less of a problem. And it doesn't mean the question, if it was worth being asked, doesn't deserve a legitimate answer.


He's a clown, he's always been a clown. Maybe Mr. Met needs a helper.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

You should be a hockey fan, Ceetar. If Maine had his arm amputated with a chain saw he'd be listed as day-to-day with an upper body injury.

I know you begin every thought with your white-hot hatred of Jerry Manuel and pile conspiracies on top of that, but as long as you keep demanding reasoning and answers, I'll ask this - why does Manuel or Omar owe you, the press or anyone else answers? If they are trying to make a deal it is helpful that they deal from a position of strength, and they will announce what they think would be helpful to announce.

[ashie62]

Manuel, Jeffie and Omar are all graduates of the Flushing Clown College. This organization and team are almost too dysfunctional to even exist.

It may not be the fairest thing to do but ties need to be cut.

Wilpon-Sell it
Minaya-Fired
Manuel-Fired
Warthen-Fired
Hojo-Fired
Maine-Traded
Reyes-Traded
Fmart-Promoted
Mejia-SP
Gee-SP
Havens-2B

Waiting is the amount of time it takes to get fucked

Onward and upward

[ashie62]

Swan Swan H wrote: You should be a hockey fan, Ceetar. If Maine had his arm amputated with a chain saw he'd be listed as day-to-day with an upper body injury. I know you begin every thought with your white-hot hatred of Jerry Manuel and pile conspiracies on top of that, but as long as you keep demanding reasoning and answers, I'll ask this - why does Manuel or Omar owe you, the press or anyone else answers? If they are trying to make a deal it is helpful that they deal from a position of strength, and they will announce what they think would be helpful to announce.

Conspiracies?? Cmon

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'll ask this - why does Manuel or Omar owe you, the press or anyone else answers? If they are trying to make a deal it is helpful that they deal from a position of strength, and they will announce what they think would be helpful to announce.

They don't owe anyone answers; conversely, neither do we owe them our attention or spending money. It does behoove them to deal honestly with the press-- or at least, lie well and professionally.

Stop me if you've heard this song before: the organization's representatives-- right up through to the head-- haven't proven so great with the way they announce things of late.

That said... yeah, Manuel was kidding. He does that.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Two weeks ago, I mailed Manuel a letter asking him to send me a copy of the Mets secret code book and decoder of third base coach signs ---- The Manuel Manual! You know ... so I could understand the game better when I watch it.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Yesterday I called up the Mets and demanded that Jerry send me a copy of Maine's medical chart and all MRI films because I'd like to personally monitor Maine's condition.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: Are we basically not going to see Maine again because [Jerry] Manuel doesn't want to? That's hardly a fair way to judge pitchers, let's just cut them....

It's not fair at all. I agree. We should at least run the idea by Bobby Cox and Charlie Manuel. They're better managers than Jerry.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Two weeks ago, I mailed Manuel a letter asking him to send me a copy of the Mets secret code book and decoder of third base coach signs ---- The Manuel Manual! You know ... so I could understand the game better when I watch it.

You're setting yourself up for a massive disappointment when Chip Hale tells you to D-R-I-N-K-Y-O-U-R-O-V-A-L-T-I-N-E.

[Guest Edgy DC]

This is too much.

Ceetar wrote: I've long since grown tired of Jerry avoiding questions by making silly jokes, whether it's at his pitcher (who he might not even be communicating with, isn't on good terms with, etc) 's expense, or Hanley Ramirez (and I'm always good to make fun of him in general).

Yes, a manager who is losing is intolerable, no matter what he's doing.

Ceetar wrote: Whether or not it's "all in good fun" doesn't really mean much to me.

What, besides winning, would mean something?

Ceetar wrote: He's making jokes about something that needs to be fixed.

He's making a joke about whether he thinks a good idea that a 29-year-old righthanded pitcher should wake up one morning and teach himself to pitch with his left arm, and whether that's the way to continue getting a major leaguers out.

Ceetar wrote: Making problems funny doesn't make them less of a problem.

He actually wasn't asked about the problem, but rather a highly unlikely solution. And he actually didn't make it funny, but underscored the silliness of the question by answering it seriously.

Ceetar wrote: And it doesn't mean the question, if it was worth being asked, doesn't deserve a legitimate answer.

His thoughts on turning Maine into a lefthander weren't worth asking for and didn't deserve a legitimate answer. And he made that clear not by showing contempt for the asker, but answering with the sort of earnestness the reporter was seemingly asking for. Take it easy.

Ceetar wrote: He's a clown, he's always been a clown. Maybe Mr. Met needs a helper.

Making problems funny doesn't make them less of a problem.

[Ceetar]

the thing is, the question wasn't about pitching lefty. It was actually about pitching, period. The left-handed stuff was merely exaggeration.

Maine was talking about working towards his next start, and that he wants to pitch, whenever and whereever that is. (implying the bullpen would be my guess)

So Manuel actually, when asked (unless the media decided to only relay the silly the part..but that's another story) about Maine's comments, ignored the part about Maine really just wanting to pitch, and answered the silly exaggerated part and avoiding the meat of the question and issue.