The Starting Rotation

[Ceetar]

smg58 wrote: The Mets seemed to be very cautious with Maine in the pre-season (i.e., not stretching him out as quickly as the others), so they had an inclination he wasn't all the way back. Then why force it? Give Maine some time in AAA. We have plenty of options that are, at worst, no less viable than he is right now (and we had an additional one in ST that we were comfortable giving away to the Phillies). He'd have to clear waivers, but at $3.3M I would lose no sleep if somebody claimed him (which I seriously doubt would happen). What was frustrating to me last night was that Maine got some nice strikeouts, and some better defense on the part of Maine himself and our corner infielders would have kept the Mets in the game.

well, Murphy will hopefully be back soon and possibly Davis if that doesn't work. Defense at first will be better. and if Maine chilled out a bit maybe makes that play.


I noticed that too, with them going easy on Maine, but he pitched healthily at the end of last season, so I'm not sure why. I really think getting his arm strength up would be more beneficial then pushing it past it's comfort level every start until it's up there.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I want to attribute most of what's been ailing the Mets pitchers to their physical abilities -- obviously velocity is an issue with Ollie, Maine and maybe Santana. But what's really irritated me about all the performances, and I know its a vague thing, is the seeming lack of concentration; the inability to bear down and finish the job.

No shame in Helton going opposite field and punching an 0-2 pitch through the hole for a 2-out single; it's the 4-pitch walk to Tulo that follows and the first pitch double that follows that.

Just, grrr.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

If you read the entirety of that post, Warthan is all over the place, because he doesn't quite know. It's a results business. If Warthen doesn't know, hasn't known for a while, then why keep him? Sure, maybe no one knows. It's certainly possible. But it seems pretty clear that we know that he doesn't know. So try someone else. do the research. hire smart people.

I wonder whether Warthen isn't just expressing bewilderment (without expressing actual, explicit bewilderment), but subtly distancing himself a bit from something Manuel prominently stood behind at ST's outset. Backing away from the condemned? If so... then that's borderline CRIMINAL.

At least Maine didn't storm back into the clubhouse. He sat down and talked with Warthen, first thing. (Although I would've sent him back out there at that point. I'm wondering if building up his arm strength and facing more batters in general would be beneficial) At least have him top 100. Just a thought.

I don't get the "get him out of there" mentality regarding someone who's just given up 7-8 runs early on. I mean, hell-- get Maine some work, have him eat some innings (or one more inning, anyway). What's served by pulling him there, after 70-75 pitches, with two more potentially-bullpen-taxing games in Colorado left?

3) Who replaces Maine in the rotation? Bring up Bobby Parnell. If he doesn't go into the rotation, then he goes to the bullpen with Nieve moving into the rotation. I know Jerry likes to have a bullpen that can protect late inning leads. But if the starters are getting murdered, there aren't too many late inning leads to protect, anyhow.

Also a possibility:



"With my lack of platoon split, and super control, Rockies no stand no chance now!"

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: No shame in Helton going opposite field and punching an 0-2 pitch through the hole for a 2-out single; it's the 4-pitch walk to Tulo that follows and the first pitch double that follows that. Just, grrr.

This is where a pitching coach, a captain, a catcher should walk out to the mound and try to get him focused. Or he should slap himself into alertness and focus.

[Guest Edgy DC]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I wonder whether Warthen isn't just expressing bewilderment (without expressing actual, explicit bewilderment), but subtly distancing himself a bit from something Manuel prominently stood behind at ST's outset. Backing away from the condemned? If so... then that's borderline CRIMINAL.

Your conspiracy theories are getting more complex.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy DC wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I wonder whether Warthen isn't just expressing bewilderment (without expressing actual, explicit bewilderment), but subtly distancing himself a bit from something Manuel prominently stood behind at ST's outset. Backing away from the condemned? If so... then that's borderline CRIMINAL. Your conspiracy theories are getting more complex.

Aren't you curious, Edge? I'm curious. I'm very curious. Are you curious? There's something happening out here, man. You know something, man? I know something you that you don't know. That's right, Edge. The man is clear in his mind, but his soul is mad. Oh, yeah. He's dying, I think. Freddy hates all this. He hates it! But the man's a... He reads poetry out loud, all right. And a voice...he likes you because you're still alive. He's got "plans" for you. No, I'm not gonna help you. You're gonna help him, man. You're gonna help him. I mean, what are they gonna say when he's gone? 'Cause he dies when it dies, when it dies, he dies! What are they gonna say about him? He was a kind man to veterans? He was a wise man for getting CitiField done? He had plans for a HOF? He had wisdom? Buuuuullshit, man! And am I gonna be the one that's gonna set them straight? Look at me! Look at me! Wrong!

[Guest Edgy DC]

Who sent you to me? How do you know my name? HOW DO YOU KNOW MY NAME?!

[TransMonk]

You can count me in for swapping Takahashi and Maine. I'd give Perez a start or two more as he hasn't been as horrible as Maine.

[ashie62]

Costa today on Maine and the rotation:

DENVER -- Think about how John Maine looked against the Rockies Tuesday night. Think about how his fastball looked. Then think about how it would look Sunday night against Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday and the Cardinals on national television.

It has the potential to be a pretty ugly sight, and you might not see it at all.

Maine�s rotation spot is in jeopardy after he gave up eight runs in three innings in Tuesday�s 11-3 loss to the Rockies. He has made only two starts, but the results have been unsettling both for him and the Mets. He has a 13.50 ERA, and that�s not even as troubling as the numbers on the radar gun.

Now, manager Jerry Manuel said the team will consider its options. When asked after the game whether Maine is in danger of losing his spot in the rotation, Manuel said, �I think those things we have to talk about. Right now, right after this game, you have to kind of sleep on that and see how you feel tomorrow, and hopefully he feels okay. But you have to have dialogue about it. That�s just the business that we�re in.�

The problem is, there aren�t any good options for the Mets, at least not internally. They could move either Fernando Nieve or Hisanori Takahashi from the bullpen to the rotation, but that would weaken an already shaky bullpen, and neither of them are stretched out for starting duty. With Nelson Figueroa now a Phillie, that leaves Pat Misch as the likely best option at Triple-A Buffalo. And, really, if Pat Misch has to save the day -- two weeks into the season, no less -- the Mets are in for a long summer.

Their best hope is for Maine to turn things around.

Health does not appear to be a concern for Maine, who has dealt with shoulder injuries the last two years. But his velocity, or lack thereof, is a big concern. Maine topped out at 90mph Tuesday, a tad better than in his first start but still way down from the mid-90s stuff he had before the shoulder injuries.

�Historically he�s been able to get by with being able to miss location and have a little fly ball or something like that because he had a little extra on it,� Manuel said. �But right now that�s not the case.�

Maine said he can be effective with lower velocity, but he has to keep the ball down in the strike zone much more than he did three years ago.

�You don�t have to throw 95,� Maine said. �You just have to get the ball down, and I haven�t done that.�

Maine has also relied more on his off-speed pitches, but that can only compensate so much for a fastball lacking both in velocity and movement.

�When you�re working behind in counts and you have to throw that fastball, these hitters are going to be jumping all over it,� catcher Rod Barajas said. �It�s hard to get these guys out when the counts are 2-0, 3-1. You want to work ahead. You want to be able to get ahead of the count and make these guys hit your pitch, and right now that�s just not happening with John.�

[ashie62]

TransMonk wrote: You can count me in for swapping Takahashi and Maine. I'd give Perez a start or two more as he hasn't been as horrible as Maine.

I look at your avatar and just wish he was here as he does know.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

�You don�t have to throw 95,� Maine said. �You just have to get the ball down, and I haven�t done that.�

You do if you throw a changeup in the mid-80s and a slider that is only intermittently controllable.

[MFS62]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: But what's really irritated me about all the performances, and I know its a vague thing, is the seeming lack of concentration; the inability to bear down and finish the job.

From what was said about Santos' ability to handle a staff, I had expected that would be corrected with the new experienced major league receivers this year.
I'm willing to give them some time to get to feel comfortable one another's styles.

Later

[TransMonk]

I had forgotten that Maine's next scheduled start is the Mets' first national TV appearance of the season. Ouch!

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: I had forgotten that Maine's next scheduled start is the Mets' first national TV appearance of the season. Ouch!

Fuels the conspiracy theory for sure there.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

MFS62 wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: But what's really irritated me about all the performances, and I know its a vague thing, is the seeming lack of concentration; the inability to bear down and finish the job. From what was said about Santos' ability to handle a staff, I had expected that would be corrected with the new experienced major league receivers this year. I'm willing to give them some time to get to feel comfortable one another's styles. Later

I just sort of see it as symptomatic of the recent vintage Jerrymets -- they're just not that into the moment, it seems.

[TransMonk]

I don't think the Mets have played any inspired stretches of baseball since 09/12/2007.

OE: added "...stretches of..."

[smg58]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I want to attribute most of what's been ailing the Mets pitchers to their physical abilities -- obviously velocity is an issue with Ollie, Maine and maybe Santana. But what's really irritated me about all the performances, and I know its a vague thing, is the seeming lack of concentration; the inability to bear down and finish the job. No shame in Helton going opposite field and punching an 0-2 pitch through the hole for a 2-out single; it's the 4-pitch walk to Tulo that follows and the first pitch double that follows that. Just, grrr.

I agree. Like I said before, there were a few instances where Maine looked good yesterday. But he dealt with adversity about as poorly as you can.

[Ceetar]

smg58 wrote: I agree. Like I said before, there were a few instances where Maine looked good yesterday. But he dealt with adversity about as poorly as you can.

Maine's always been a bit of a headcase and too hard on himself. (Murphy too) Someone needs to smack 'em around a bit, tell him to relax, get laid, something like that. Apparently going out to a Nuggets game doesn't count. (Apparently most of the team did that Monday night. no idea if Maine did)

[metirish]

For all that ails Maine




don't miss your spots here John.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Only a real fan paints herself in team colors. Did she paint something blue, too?

[ashie62]

metirish wrote: For all that ails Maine don't miss your spots here John.

She will be appearing at Lookers on Rt22 $50 a lap dance

[metirish]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Only a real fan paints herself in team colors. Did she paint something blue, too?

She's not that orange...LOL

[metirish]

Meanwhile over in the Lubyanka building David Lennon in a secret chat today tossed Dillon Gee as a possible name for the rotation, gives May 15th as the over-under on Jerry., thinks Maine is headed for the DL and not the gulags as some would have it.


Oh and this

Ryan: With Jacobs and Smithtown's Own being such abject failures -- as expected -- any thoughts on bringing Carter up? I think he'll get a shot at some point, but let's be clear on this - he is a terrible defender, so I'm not sure where you plan on having him play.

Doesn't think the Wilpons would rehire Bobby V, noting else great in there.

[metirish]

Jerry on the radio saying that Maine gets another start but if he sees the same thing then serious dialoge will ensue to see what happens, " three is my thing, three is a number for everyone".

[ashie62]

I agree with the DL part on Maine. That shoulder has been to hell & back. His career is in Jeopardy

[bmfc1]

Like three sacrifice bunts each game.

[metirish]

Joel Pineiro reflects on New York Mets' lackluster and 'weird' offseason pursuit

So Angels righthander Joel Pineiro threw a gem in the Bronx Wednesday, and the kicker, of course, is that it surely left Mets fans, not Yankees fans, feeling sick to their stomachs. Such is the state of baseball in New York these days. The Yankees simply tip their caps to Pineiro after Wednesday's 5-3 loss and likely make someone pay for it Thursday, while the floundering Mets already look foolish for refusing to sign a pitcher like him during the winter. Even if you had reservations, as I admittedly did, about what Pineiro might be without Cardinals pitching coach/miracle worker Dave Duncan, he was arguably the second-best free agent pitcher on the market after John Lackey. At the very least, Pineiro was obviously a much-needed upgrade for the Mets' staff. And baseball people whispered during the winter that he was GM Omar Minaya's No. 1 target among pitchers. So what happened? That's what Pineiro would like to know. It seems clearer than ever from hearing his version of events that Mets ownership simply wouldn't let Minaya spend the money it took - two years, $16 million - for the Angels to get a deal done. Pineiro said in November he considered the Mets to be "the front-runners" to sign him. Much of that feeling was based on what he was hearing from his friend and neighbor in Miami, Alex Cora, that the Mets had every intention of signing him. Considering that Cora has a strong relationship with Minaya, suffice to say it was solid information. "Alex was telling me (it was going to happen)," Pineiro said Wednesday. "I was like, 'all right, I'm just waiting for that good thing to happen, and I'm ready to go.' "But it never came." Pineiro indicated that the Mets stayed in contact with his agent throughout the winter, but didn't make any real move to sign him until the Angels got involved in mid-January. Even then all indications are the Mets knew their two-year, $15 million offer wasn't going to be enough, and at that point, it may well have been for the sake of appearance. "Is it that the Mets wouldn't go the extra mile?" I asked Pineiro. "Exactly," he said. "It was a business decision, I guess. They had their guys, already." They had their guys, all right. The Mets put the word out that they weren't going to overpay for pitchers that were no better than John Maine, Mike Pelfrey and Oliver Perez. How's that working out so far? Maine can't get anybody out and, meanwhile, here was Pineiro, dominating the Yankees over seven innings, striking out Alex Rodriguez three times along the way. He allowed one run on five hits, while racking up seven strikeouts and issuing not a single walk. In other words, his signature sinkerball apparently works nicely without Duncan, after all. Indeed, Pineiro said there was no magic to him going 15-12 with a 3.49 ERA last season, and after hearing all the Duncan talk during the winter, he is determined to prove it. "Dave Duncan got me to throw my sinker," Pineiro said. "To have faith, to trust it and not be afraid to throw it. But he didn't change my mechanics. He didn't change how I pitch. "That was the main thing I heard, 'he's a Duncan project,' but I have confidence in myself, knowing that I have this pitch now, and I could go out and make quality starts for whatever team I was with. I feel strong-minded about that." If anything, it seems Duncan restored the confidence Pineiro had as a young pitcher with the Mariners several years ago, when he was being touted as a rising star after going a combined 30-18 in 2002-03. Somehow he lost his way for a few years, lost command of his nasty sinker, but at age 31 he looks as if he could go a long way toward replacing the departed Lackey for the Angels. He's not an ace, but he'd sure fit nicely as behind Johan Santana in the Mets' rotation. Pineiro shrugged at the idea Wednesday. He said he's happy to be an Angel, but seems clear he thought he was going to be a Met. "I thank them for their interest," he said. "But it was just weird." The way things are going, weird surely wouldn't be the word Mets fans would choose. jharper@nydailynews.com Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2010/04/15/2010-04-15_mets_weird_out_joel.html#ixzz0lAq00drT

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

[HahnSolo]

Nothing Piniero said there is really all that upsetting. Not much we didn't know or expect.

Leave it to Harper though to find a negative Mets spin for his column.

[Frayed Knot]

Egg-Zactly.
Harper leaves himself enough wiggle room to virtually assure that he'd be writing the exact opposite column had Piniero signed here and not started well while also asking us to buy the notion that Omar funnels all his off-season plans through the backup short-stop.