IGT 3/8 --- One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish

[Guest Edgy DC]

Folks, there's baseball a-doin'. Mets lead 1-0 on a first-inning sacrifice fly by Fernando Martinez.

1. Pagan, CF
2. Martinez, F, RF
3. Wright, D, 3B
4. Bay, LF
5. Murphy, Dn, 1B
6. Barajas, C
7. Adams, R, 2B
8. Tejada, SS
9. Maine, P

1. Miller, Ja, CF
2. Jimenez, 3B
3. Ramirez, H, SS
4. Uggla, 2B
5. Cousins, RF
6. Sanchez, G, 1B
7. Carroll, B, LF
8. Davis, B, C
9. Tucker, P

New York

=#40BFBF]Florida

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

2-nil on Bay SF in the 2nd. If 4 Marlins flail in vain at John Maine fastballs over 1 2/3 innings, and nobody is around to broadcast it, do they make a "whoosh?"

Dickey's flutter-pitched the last 1 1/3, as per Gameday.

OE: And the short appearance is apparently nothing to worry about; as per Adam Rubin:

John Maine's start this afternoon against the Marlins won't be as long the other starters, who have been going three innings and 45 pitches. Pitching coach Dan Warthen said he wants to "baby" Maine a little bit. Warthen wondered whether he worked Maine a little too hard last spring training coming off surgery.

[TransMonk]

Seems like our staff has been racking up the Ks so far in this young exhibition season.

On edit: after checking, the Mets do indeed lead all ML staffs in Ks so far with 58 in 7 games (not including today's). That's over 8 Ks per game.

Until the hitters start to catch up...me likey.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Barajas smacks an actual out-of-park gone-tripper. 3-1, Goods.

Three scoreless innings for Jwonder Jboy, during which he retired Hanley Ramirez twice: 2 H, 1 K, 0 BB.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Three-one Mets lead in the seventh. Those three scoreless innings from Jennry Meijia follow 2.1 scoreless from R.A. Dickey.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

And one of the hits was a one-hopper infield job... off of his bare hand (yikes).

He's okay. Well, much more than okay.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ooop. The squishies get one back on a pinch-hit RBI by Wes Helms following a triple by Cousins.

We have a tight ninth coming. Somebody spring Pinkeye from quarantine.

[Guest Edgy DC]

But that won't be necessary, thanks to three tack-on runs in the ninth off Seth McClung. Big blow is a homer from Chris Carter, his second on the day.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Seems like all the guys we hope spend the summer in Buffalo are kicking butt all over Florida so far.

(Granted, it's early and they're the ones looking to prove themselves. Most of the roster just has to roll out of bed and not get injured to visit the Shake Shack when April arrives. But it's nice to see the kids mash and deal."

[Guest Edgy DC]

The tack-ons? Well, they just kept coming and coming, off of McClung and former Nat Chris Schroder (who, if you recall was greeted in his debut against the Mets by the playing of "Linus and Lucy"). All-told, the fake Mets just put up an eight-run ninth.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

RELEASE THE CRACKIN'! Ike added 2 hits in three ABs-- one off a lefty-- and Fartinez added 2 as well, including an RBI triple! Get me some bigger pants, maw-- I've got a prospect-erection!

Big blow is a homer from Chris Carter, his second on the day.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Sorry about that. I'm following along by boxscore updates.

Yeah, I'd rather see him than Jacobs --- though I don't mind having them both around. He's probably more athletic and defense-y too. He'd almost have to be.

A little-publicized prospect named Ike Davis went 2-3 with a run and two ribbies.

[ashie62]

I'd take Carter over Jacobs if it came to that

Keith was saying Jacobs can be pitched to.. I take that too mean his cold spots are well defined and can only beat you on a mistake.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Keith was saying Jacobs can be pitched to.. I take that too mean his cold spots are well defined and can only beat you on a mistake.[/quote:g0ficoe6]

Virtually everyone who's ever-- EVER-- scouted Jacobs seems to agree.

He hammers mistakes by righties and awful mistakes by lefties and hits absolutely nothing else.

Carter, by reputation, is not great defensively. Jacobs only plays the field because he absolutely must, and only plays first base because he isn't fast/coordinated enough to play even a BAD LF-- keep in mind, this marks him as less passable there than Adam Dunn-- and only last year played in a league with a DH.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I saw more than a bit of the Nats last year, and I (and Nats fans seemingly agreed) found Dunn scarier at first than in the outfield.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Whoever it is, it would be nice to have a guy on the bench that the opposing manager actually has to worry about. The move from ten-man staffs to twelve has put a premium on versatility, and too often, it seems, guys who can do many things not too badly get the nod over guys who can do one thing - hit - very well.

Would there be room on a what is really a four-man bench (counting two catchers as a necessity) for the Rusty of '85 or the Kranepool of the late '70s?

[ashie62]

How about the old 9 man staff with 4 starters?

Yeah right

[Guest Edgy DC]

Kranepool, yes, Rusty, probably not.

Kranepool, because he could still fake it in the field, and because they were a bottom-dweller anyhow.

[MFS62]

Carter pinch hit a homer, then hit another in the same inning .
Is that considered a pinch hit homer too? Doesn't seem like it should be, but sometimes the scoring rules have weird stuff like this.

And, he then went out to play center field in the bottom half of the inning!!! (At least that's what the Yahoo sports box score said)
Sounds like Jerry is trying to check out his defense. Thought he was primarily a first baseman who plays some corner outfield.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'd think that would be two pinch-hit homers.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Excellent question, '62. Reminds me of the old knotty problems feature in Baseball DIgest. I had to look this up, as I had no idea myself.

According to this source, only the first AB is a pinch-hit appearance.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm going to philosophically disagree with that position. If he's not been assigned a position yet, he's still in the same limbo he was when he entered the game. He certainly isn't anything else.

I mean, I realize the game situaton was certainly not a "pinch" at that point, but that's true of the majority of qualifying pinch-hit appearances.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm with Edgy on this one. I've always understood it to count as two pinch-hitting appearances.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I will disagree with your philosophical disagreement.

Whether or not he's been assigned a postion is immaterial. After that first pinch-hitting turn, that lineup turn now belongs to him until you substitute another player for him. You can't re-lose your virginity*, and you can't re-pinch hit.

*Unless, like Kate Hudson, you've got a magical set of genitals.

[Frayed Knot]

I've always known it as one PH AB and one not.

[Guest Edgy DC]

But what are you? Gentlemen, I ask, what are you?

If you graph out somebody's splits...

As secondbaseman:
As leftfielder:
As firstbaseman:
As designated hitter:
As pinch hitter:

...where would that plate appearance fall under? Would that second at-bat be listed under centerfield, because he was pinch-hitting for the centerfielder? That seems as philosophically rigid as any other position. Yeah, he did eventually get assigned to center, but if Rusty Staub came up a second time after pinch-hitting for Rick Aguilera and the team batting around, it would be silly to call him a pitcher, far sillier than calling him a two-time pinch-hitter.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The official scoring rules seem to be silent on this matter.

Rule 10.03( seems to be the place where this should have been addressed.

( The official scorer shall identify in the official score report any player who enters the game as a substitute batter or substitute runner, whether or not such player continues in the game thereafter, in the batting order by a special symbol that shall refer to a separate record of substitute batters and runners. The record of substitute batters shall describe what the substitute batter did. The record of substitute batters and runners shall include the name of any such substitute whose name is announced, but who is removed for another substitute before he actually gets into the game. Any such second substitute shall be recorded as batting or running for the first announced substitute. Rule 10.03( Comment: Lower case letters are recommended as symbols for substitute batters and numerals are recommended as symbols for substitute runners. For example, an official score report may note as follows: �a-Singled for Abel in third inning; b-Flied out for Baker in sixth inning; c-Hit into force for Charles in seventh inning; d-Grounded out for Daniel in ninth inning; 1-Ran for Edward in ninth inning.� If a substitute�s name is announced but the substitute is removed for another substitute before he actually gets into the game, the official scorer report shall record the substitute, for example, as follows: �e-Announced as substitute for Frank in seventh inning.�

[MFS62]

Has anyone here ever written the rules committee?
Did you get a response?
This sounds like something that should have been sent to them before now for a ruling (or a rules change).
Ben, since you have done the research on this one, do you want to give it a try?

Later