Beltran Out "8 to 12 weeks"

[ashie62]

No, i'm just pissed the Mets have screwed the pooch again

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yes, of course. They should have locked Beltran in a cell during the offseason like all right-thinking organizations do.

Perspective, NOW!!!!

[ashie62]

It's not that..it just seems anything bad that can happen in Flushing will.

I never thought the "wounded will all be back to make things better" was a wise tactic, whether it be be Beltran injured or someone else.

I do believe it is imperative to obtain a decent SP. To expect Santana, Maine and ollie to all come back and play well and be durable is unrealistic and overly risky.

[Frayed Knot]

"It's not that..it just seems anything bad that can happen in Flushing will."

Which clearly has nothing to do with the Mets "screwing the pooch"



"I never thought the "wounded will all be back to make things better" was a wise tactic, whether it be be Beltran injured or someone else."

So they should have somehow snagged a different CFer in case Beltran got hurt - someone, presumably, who's better than Pagan but would be willing to sign here as a backup?



"I do believe it is imperative to obtain a decent SP. To expect Santana, Maine and ollie to all come back and play well and be durable is unrealistic and overly risky.

All of which has nothing to do with Beltran and his injury.

[ashie62]

"It's not that..it just seems anything bad that can happen in Flushing will."

Which clearly has nothing to do with the Mets "screwing the pooch"



"I never thought the "wounded will all be back to make things better" was a wise tactic, whether it be be Beltran injured or someone else."

So they should have somehow snagged a different CFer in case Beltran got hurt - someone, presumably, who's better than Pagan but would be willing to sign here as a backup?



"I do believe it is imperative to obtain a decent SP. To expect Santana, Maine and ollie to all come back and play well and be durable is unrealistic and overly risky.

All of which has nothing to do with Beltran and his injury.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Interesting. Verrrry interesting.

However, this isn't the first time Beltran and Boras went to bat against a team's medical advice. While playing for the Kansas City Royals in 2000, Beltran bruised the very same right knee that underwent the knife recently. The Royals felt the obvious course for Beltran's rehab involved rest, then a rehab assignment before returning to action... Beltran earned a suspension from the Royals for declining his rehab assignment in favor of staying with the Major League club and its doctors.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah I'm getting the impression that the worry over this thing beyond the obvious is that it may be interpreted as a betrayal of the team.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Beltran's statement, released tonight. Clears things right up.

Wait, no... it does the exact OPPOSITE of that, it does.

�I am totally surprised by the reaction to my recent knee surgery. Any accusations that I ignored or defied the team�s wishes are simply false. I also spoke to Omar Minaya about the surgery on Tuesday. He did not ask me to wait, or to get another doctor�s opinion. He just wished me well. No one from team raised any issue until Wednesday, after I was already in surgery. I do not know what else I could have done. The most important thing here is that the surgery was a total success and I expect to be back on the field playing the game I love sooner rather than later.�

[Guest themetfairy]

Beltran's statement, released tonight. Clears things right up.

Wait, no... it does the exact OPPOSITE of that, it does.

�I am totally surprised by the reaction to my recent knee surgery. Any accusations that I ignored or defied the team�s wishes are simply false. I also spoke to Omar Minaya about the surgery on Tuesday. He did not ask me to wait, or to get another doctor�s opinion. He just wished me well. No one from team raised any issue until Wednesday, after I was already in surgery. I do not know what else I could have done. The most important thing here is that the surgery was a total success and I expect to be back on the field playing the game I love sooner rather than later.�

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

It gets better. Or... wait... what's the opposite of "better," again?

Boras said he was in Colorado with Beltran on Tuesday, left at 4:30 p.m. to fly back to California, and never heard from the Mets again until Wednesday morning, when they asked that Beltran get a third opinion before any surgery. By then, the surgery had already started. Boras cited a letter from Steadman in which the physician said he had consulted with Altchek about the surgery and had been given approval and that he had also received necessary paperwork and approval from the Mets trainer Ray Ramirez to facilitate payment for the operation. �Dr. Altchek verbally agreed with my assessment, along with the treatment options of doing an arthroscopic procedure on Mr. Beltran�s right knee,� Boras said, reading from the letter from Steadman. �Dr. Altchek then informed me he would inform the Mets� organization of his approval for me to perform the surgery.� Discussing the Mets� claims about not knowing the surgery was going to occur, Boras added, �Either Altchek didn�t tell the Mets, or someone is lying.�

2009 is apparently harder to kill than herpes.

[metsmarathon]

this does not reflect well upon the mets. ugh.

it sounds like boras/beltran might not've gotten express written permision from the mets to go ahead with the surgery, while everyone from minaya down to ray ramirez was acting like it was porbably ok to have the surgery.

now, its also entirely possible that altchek talked to steadman, agreed that the surgery was needed, and his agreement was misunderstood as tantamount to the mets officially sanctioning the surgery. ditto the forwarding of the workmans comp paperwork. that minaya said good luck only indicates that he knew beltran was injured, and was considering surgery. wishing a player good luck doesn't equate to sanctioning his surgery, especially when its unclear that minaya was told that the surgery was to take place wednesday morning.

unfortunately, since so much is unknown about the timeline, and since there's so much confusion in what was said and when by whom to whom, it makes the team look liek its in disarray - which it may well be.

and even if the mets are in the wrong, and boras/beltran did not adequately communicate that the surgery was indeed scheduled to take place wednesday morning, the mets come off as petty by holding that conference call. tehy would have been better off saying nothing, putting out a tersely written press release acknowledging that beltran had the surgery, and taking the time to look into the timelines out of the public eye, while realizing that leaking any of their displeasure would not at all reflect well on them, no matter if beltran really did do this without their permission/knowledge.

[G-Fafif]

Mets Merized Online does its best to put the pieces together here.

Key passage here:

It was quite obvious that Omar Minaya was not in the loop while Wilpon, Howard and Ricco were scurrying around trying to delay the surgery. While they frantically attempted to find a doctor to get a third opinion, their GM (in name only) Omar Minaya was on the phone wishing Carlos Beltran good luck with his knee surgery in the morning. Can you believe that? How in God�s name was Minaya left out of the loop? He was absolutely oblivious to the fact the rest of the front office was trying to put the brakes on the procedure. On the morning of the surgery, Mets Trainer, Ray Ramirez signed and faxed all the necessary forms to Colorado for the surgery to go forward that morning at 7:00 AM. Without these signed insurance forms the surgery could not take place that morning. Not only was the surgery done with the signature and approval of a Mets employee, but the entire procedure was approved and paid for by the Mets insurance company. According to Dr. Steadman who performed the surgery, he was in constant communication with the Mets medical director David Altchek, who agreed with Steadman�s recommendation that he have surgery. Altchek left off with Dr. Steadman that he would relay the information to the Mets that Beltran would be having surgery in the morning. The Mets say they never knew, but that doesn�t ring true. They had to know. Why would they later mention that they wanted to get a third opinion, unless they already had the opinions of both their Medical Director and Dr. Steadman? During the conference call, Assistant GM John Ricco, refused to elaborate on the discussions both Jeff Wilpon and Omar Minaya had with Scott Boras in the 24 hours preceding the surgery. He would only acknowledge that there were phone calls made, but that he wasn�t on those calls. So why not wait until Omar Minaya was available to have the conference call? And even though both Minaya and Wilpon were In Arizona, why couldn�t they participate from there? It was reported that they were on a plane during the 2:00 PM conference call, but it was later revealed that they did not board their plane until four hours later at 6:00 PM. If they were going to levy these unsubstantiated charges against their star centerfielder, and if they are as committed to better communication as they said they would be, why weren�t the principal parties in those phone calls on that conference call to answer the important questions? Why did the Mets go out of their way to make such a public spectacle of this even going so far as to simulcast the conference call live on SNY to gain the widest possible reach they could? The conference call answered no questions and raised hundreds more. Not only were we not able to get the details of the phone calls between Minaya, Wilpon, Boras and Beltran, but John Ricco refused to elaborate on the legal aspects that the entire call was centered around. They wanted the world to know that they were invoking their legal rights under the terms of the contract, but they refused to tell us the whos, whats, wheres and whens. Is this the better communication they spoke of?

And here:

On December 3rd, Carlos Beltran was in New York to get an MRI on his ailing knee again. It was immediately discovered that there was loose cartilage and bone fragments caused by a degenerative disease known as osteo-arthritis. On December 13th the pain worsened and another MRI showed even more deterioration in the knee. He was told to �ramp down� his workouts. Beltran instead wanted a second opinion and he got permission to see Dr. Steadman who had treated him last season. It was determined that he would most likely need surgery to clean it up. Almost a month laster, a subsequent trip to Colorado this past Tuesday, only confirmed that original diagnosis which was also echoed by the Mets Medical Director. To answer David Wright�s question �why now?�, the Mets already knew of this serious condition on December 3rd and yet their plan was to wait. It was a plan that was doomed to failure. Bone fragments, bone spurs and torn cartilage does not go away with �ramping down your workouts� as the Mets advised him. If his knee got this bad due to some light pre spring training workout regimen, what did they expect would happen with the full throttle rigors of spring training? Is this the better way of handling medical information that they promised back in October? Could it be that the Mets suppressed that information for over a month so that they could sign Jason Bay without giving the player any further leverage in the negotiations? In the meantime they withheld the staggering news that their centerfielder�s knee was deteriorating rapidly. Is this their improved way of communicating player injury updates to the media as they promised in October?

[metirish]

Who's runnning this place?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Team Beltran.

[Guest Edgy DC]

You know, whatever communications were dropped, if they weren't we'd likely still be in the same place this morning, and it would likely still be the best of a varying bunch of not-so-good-to-terrible scenarios, so I'm am totally not going to sweat it.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Fair enough. It's just a bit frustrating.

On the lighter side... picturing the old knee speaking street Spanish to Carlos Delgado and screaming obscenities at minor-leaguers provides a needed giggle. Courtesy of Amazin' Avenue's fxcarden:

Omar Minaya: Once the reports came out, you know, of course we had to expedite more the investigation on Beltran's knee. Early in the process, early in the process, when the reports came out, I had to kind of tell myself, "Wow, these things are coming out." And I say this because coming from Beltran, okay, and Beltran, you gotta understand this, Beltran, for the past couple of years, has lobby for a new knee . He has lobby myself, he has lobby Jeff. So when these things came out I was kind of a little bit, I had to think about it. And I was a little bit, you know, somewhat, kind of, we gotta find out about this. We really have to do a thorough investigation of this. Beltran: Is what you're alleging that I tried to tear my own knee down so I could have a new one ? Is that what you're saying? Omar Minaya: No, no, I'm not saying that. All I'm saying was, that I know that when you got hurt, but I am saying, that in the past, you have, have lobby for a new knee.... Beltran: If I were interested in a new knee, I'd go to Colorado and get a new one. It's not like I can't afford it. Omar Minaya: I said, because, when the reports came out a lot of these things were cross... I said "Who's writing these reports?" and I said well okay who's writing the reports and in the back of my mind, Carlos, you have told me you have told other people in the front office that you want a new knee Beltran: So what you're alleging is that.. the only conclusion I can draw from that is that you're trying to allege that I tried to tear my own knee so I could have a new one. Is that what you're saying? Omar Minaya: Carlos...... Beltran: It seems pretty despicable to say that. Omar Minaya: Look, was a new knee really necessary ? No, it wasn't. We know that. And Carlos, and you've been around baseball a long time, and there's a lot of injuries we don't like, ahh, and, you know, and they're, we just deal with it. But, you know, the other Carlos sucked it up with his hip....you know what I'm sayin'.......

[smg58]

and even if the mets are in the wrong, and boras/beltran did not adequately communicate that the surgery was indeed scheduled to take place wednesday morning, the mets come off as petty by holding that conference call. tehy would have been better off saying nothing, putting out a tersely written press release acknowledging that beltran had the surgery, and taking the time to look into the timelines out of the public eye, while realizing that leaking any of their displeasure would not at all reflect well on them, no matter if beltran really did do this without their permission/knowledge.[/quote:zb0ekba7]

I absolutely agree. There's no intelligent reason to make a public issue out of a private one. It hurts the team's public image, and it hurts their relationship with one of their star players. And for what benefit?

[Guest attgig]

from fangraphs

A year ago, I placed the Mets at #5 on my list of the healthiest organizations in baseball. My bad. Yesterday�s he said-he said recounting of the events surrounding Carlos Beltran�s surgery are just the latest sign that the organization is a ship without a captain. Even the most conservative reading of the events looks really bad for the Mets � at best, their front office lacks the ability to communicate their desires to their team�s best player, at worst the player has reached the point where he simply doesn�t care what they say. And then there�s the handling of the news. Word began to leak out on Wednesday that Beltran had surgery and that the Mets front office was extremely angry about it. It�s one thing to do a controlled leak of news that will come out eventually, as most teams in baseball do � it is entirely another to bring reporters into what should have been an internal issue. Then, to cap it off, the Mets held a conference call (necessitated by the leaks) that was run by Assistant GM John Ricco, ostensibly because Omar Minaya wasn�t able to find a working phone in the rural back-country known as Phoenix, Arizona. More likely is that the Mets just didn�t want Minaya on that call for fear of what he might say. Say what you will about Minaya�s roster construction (and I have), but when you don�t trust your GM to meet with the press, you need a new GM. A significant part of the General Manager job is to handle the relationship with the press about the affairs of the team. The Mets apparently do not believe Minaya is fit to fill that role any longer. Ricco�s handling of the conference call only goes to further confuse the chain of authority in Queens. Minaya is clearly not in charge, as the Wilpons continue to exercise more than a usual amount of influence on the front office. But they won�t willingly admit to running things either, leading to a nebulous power situation where there is simply no clear leader. This is dysfunction on a large stage. Much like the last days of Jim Bowden�s reign in Washington, you have to wonder whether they�ll be able to escape growing evidence of a lack of control in the front office � never mind the questionable decisions Minaya has made spending the Wilpons money. At this point, they just need to start over. The current situation isn�t working and it�s getting worse, not better. The team has a new ballpark in a huge metropolitan area and some terrific pieces to build around � they should be contenders. They should be well run. But they aren�t. It�s time for some wholesale changes before things get any worse, if that�s possible.

[Guest Edgy DC]

There's a lot to digest and all but I don't find...

but when you don�t trust your GM to meet with the press, you need a new GM.

to be true.