Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

[Valadius]

Daily News Story

Omar may be looking to trade Billy Wagner, even before he returns. I think this seems like a good idea, if we can get reasonable value for him.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It won't be before he returns, I wouldn't think. He'd probably have to pitch at least a few big league innings before a team would trade for him.

[metirish]

I read the story , like Grim said Wagner has got to show something before a possible trade , I suppose anything for him is better than nothing.

[nymr83]

I read the story , like Grim said Wagner has got to show something before a possible trade , I suppose anything for him is better than nothing.[/quote:3s9c8ifr]

would they get nothing if he leaves as a free agent? i understand that the classification of type A/B freea gents is based on the previous two years not just this year

[Benjamin Grimm]

The speculation is that the Mets would be reluctant to offer arbitration, because if he accepts he'll get far more than they'd want to pay him.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

... and they would have to offer him arbitration in order to get the compensation. If he rejects the offer, they get the pick(s).

Now, at his age/health situation, and with most teams hesitating to go multiple years on aging relievers, he's much more likely to accept the arb offer than he was, say, three years ago. (Side note... y'know that untouchable Phillie stud starter Kyle Drabek? That's how the Phils used their Wags compensation pick.)

Without taking cost into consideration, I know I wouldn't mind having at least of one of Wags and Putz-- I'd love to couple them with Frankie in an Orosco-McDowell/My Two Closers-type arrangement. But you have to figure either one of them will cost 8 million (Putz' option, and a not-terrible guess at what Wags might receive in arbitration), reducing the hot-stove spending options drastically, most likely in the corner OF (again).

[Frayed Knot]

I read the story , like Grim said Wagner has got to show something before a possible trade , I suppose anything for him is better than nothing.[/quote:3ai5yiv1]

would they get nothing if he leaves as a free agent? i understand that the classification of type A/B freea gents is based on the previous two years not just this year[/quote:3ai5yiv1]

But those are two seasons in which he pitched somewhat over 1/2 of one and maybe 1/4 of the other.
That doesn't bode well in racking up stats that'll make you a Type A.
And then there's the arbitration problem.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I read the story , like Grim said Wagner has got to show something before a possible trade , I suppose anything for him is better than nothing.[/quote:381espgw]

would they get nothing if he leaves as a free agent? i understand that the classification of type A/B freea gents is based on the previous two years not just this year[/quote:381espgw]

But those are two seasons in which he pitched somewhat over 1/2 of one and maybe 1/4 of the other.
That doesn't bode well in racking up stats that'll make you a Type A.
And then there's the arbitration problem.[/quote:381espgw]

He still might sneak into Type A-hood, considering the categories used by Elias in determining their rankings (which are used by MLB to determine A/B/C status). Keep in mind all the relievers in baseball, and where Wags might stand among them in each of the following...

Total games (total relief appearances + 2 * total starts)
IP (weighted slightly less than other categories)
Wins + Saves
IP/H ratio
K/BB
ERA

[As far as we know, then, the categories should be the same as they had been. There had been talk of revising the system for relievers, at least, after folk like Juan Cruz hung around in FA limbo until a good ways into spring training; I hadn't heard anything since then, however, and I've had my figurative ear to the e-ground for a month or two. ]

Figure he's good-to-superlative in the latter three, though he'll lose a bit in the top 3. Without doing the math for, oh, every reliever in baseball... I'd hazard a rougher than rough guess he's a borderline A/B.

[smg58]

Wagner's contract is actually a bit front-loaded, though. He's making $10.5M this year, but the team option is for $8M or a $1M buyout. Since the Mets would have to offer in arbitration a minimum of 75% of what he made this year, plus buy out the old contract first, it would be cheaper to pick up his option. So one way or the other, he's not going to arbitration.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Wagner's contract is actually a bit front-loaded, though. He's making $10.5M this year, but the team option is for $8M or a $1M buyout. Since the Mets would have to offer in arbitration a minimum of 75% of what he made this year, plus buy out the old contract first, it would be cheaper to pick up his option. So one way or the other, he's not going to arbitration.[/quote:30utg1v4]

Well, yeah-- in effect, the Mets would be wagering about 800K-$1M ($1M buyout+$7-9M theoretical arb reward versus $8M option) that he'd say no to arbitration... like betting a million on a draft pick (or two, depending on how the Elias Magic 8 Ball shakes out).

[metirish]

You know , it's possible that the Mets are back in the hunt by then and Billy Boy will be a big part of the comeback from despair tour that the Mets will commence tonight on the West coast.

[Guest attgig]

I think the cubs would be the most desperate out of the contenders, and be willing to give up a decent bat in the process.

how about someone like Hoffpauir? could be a decent return for a 1-2 month rental for the cubs.

he could play 1b/OF. obviously, not great, but i would think somewhat reasonable for wagner.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Pleasepleaseplease trade him to the Phillies.

[smg58]

I think the cubs would be the most desperate out of the contenders, and be willing to give up a decent bat in the process.

how about someone like Hoffpauir? could be a decent return for a 1-2 month rental for the cubs.

he could play 1b/OF. obviously, not great, but i would think somewhat reasonable for wagner.[/quote:2mzoibb9]

He'd have to clear waivers. Anderson Hernandez makes close to the minimum and still cleared waivers, so I suppose it's possible. There may be some prospects not yet on the 40 that the Cubs would part with and would have more long-term value, though.

[Guest attgig]

I think the cubs would be the most desperate out of the contenders, and be willing to give up a decent bat in the process.

how about someone like Hoffpauir? could be a decent return for a 1-2 month rental for the cubs.

he could play 1b/OF. obviously, not great, but i would think somewhat reasonable for wagner.[/quote:xvq3co3t]

He'd have to clear waivers. Anderson Hernandez makes close to the minimum and still cleared waivers, so I suppose it's possible. There may be some prospects not yet on the 40 that the Cubs would part with and would have more long-term value, though.[/quote:xvq3co3t]

it's just a question of value for a old reliever just coming off of surgery, and how effective he can be for September, and if the team makes it, the post season (assuming it won't be till the end of aug that he gets traded).

unless the team is having serious bullpen issues (which the cubs definitely are...to a point that they don't have a clear closer anymore), i don't know if a penant team would want to put their faith in said reliever.

and yeah, with how reluctant so many teams are to take on salary, i don't know how many teams would put a claim on him, especially a bad team. and does wagner have a no trade clause? how do waivers work with no trade clauses?

[ashie62]

Tampa Bay? The Mets could suck up the cash and go for Andy Sonnanstine or Upton?

[Piggiestomatoes]

Tampa Bay? The Mets could suck up the cash and go for Andy Sonnanstine or Upton?[/quote:2ewlrk63]

Extremely wishful thinking. Not that I don't like the thought.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

In the event Omar is, like me, goofing off at work today, I'd like to bump this thread.

[Farmer Ted]

Help is on the way. Hooray.


New York reliever Billy Wagner also rejoined the team and is expected to be activated from the disabled list Friday.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Too little, too late. I guess it doesn't hurt to see what Wagner has left in the tank, but his use will likely be more beneficial to his future than to the Mets.

[Guest cooby]

Billy Wagner is still a Met? I thought they toasted his muffin long ago.

[Frayed Knot]

Might be a good time to talk to the Cubs as designated closer Kevin Gregg had another rough outing last night:

1-0 lead in the 9th: GO - BB - FO - Game-tying 2B - IW - 3R-HR = Padres doing the home plate bounce-dance

Gregg this year: 4-5; 4.47 ERA; 6 Blown Saves vs 23 saves; 1.3 WHiP; [u:1r7jqgzw]12[/u:1r7jqgzw] HRs

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'd trade 'em Rodriguez and let them really load up. If somebody blocks that, switch to Wagner.

[Frayed Knot]

Cubs probably thought they were set in the pen with Gregg, Marmol, Heilman & Samardzjia - but none is having a good year and Samardzjia just got sent down after he got bombed in a spot start.

Ahh, the fickle nature of bullpens.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Not that I support that kind of thing.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Wagner still looks effective.

Wagner still wants to close.

Doesn't this mean that offering him arbitration is a slam-dunk? (Since he won't accept if Frankie is still here.)

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think I'd consider taking a chance and offering arbitration. Even if he accepts, his arbitration-awarded contract wouldn't have a no-trade, right? And he's not 5-and-10 yet.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I think I'd consider taking a chance and offering arbitration. Even if he accepts, his arbitration-awarded contract wouldn't have a no-trade, right? And he's not 5-and-10 yet.[/quote:12aotr5j]

Yep. Not only that, but the 80-percent-of-previous-year's-salary thing doesn't come into play, so odds are, that salary's coming way down due to age/injury considerations.

Pretty high floor to making the offer, methinks.

[Frayed Knot]

I think I'd consider taking a chance and offering arbitration. Even if he accepts, his arbitration-awarded contract wouldn't have a no-trade, right? And he's not 5-and-10 yet.[/quote:1pt79yq2]

Can you decline an option and then offer arbitration?

Both Wagner & Putz have large option numbers for next year - larger than any normal set-up guy should have.
Obviously you can't keep both and even keeping one leaves you with two guys at the back of the bullpen making ~$20 or more.

[bmfc1]

Jon Heyman tweets:

SI_JonHeyman#mets billy wagner has been claimed. mets have 3 days to do deal with claiming team

So it's either do a deal with that team, release him, or hold onto him--we've learned that from the Sheff mess.