IGT - Mets @ Yanx 6/14/09 -- aka: 'The Condom Game'

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

bmfc1 wrote: ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] bmfc1 wrote: ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]We should release Santana now. Your sarcasm about G-Fafif's thoughtful and passionate position is noted. It was your position too and as eloquent and passionate as it was it was in service of an idea that wasn't realistic, wasn't fair, wouldn't have helped and invited criticism. Yes, it was my position too and still is. It's unrealistic because our incompetent GM a) chose to pay him until 2011 and doesn't have a better alternative in the system.

Then why get behind it?

[Frayed Knot]

]what does he show you to deserve such a ranking?

You do realize that most players his age are in Low-A ball somewhere, right?

[Guest Edgy DC]

bmfc1 wrote: "Do I really need to dig up all the independent sources that have him ranked?" I've seen them, too.

Well, then why are you suggesting (1) that his reputation is a product of the Mets, and that (2) nobody thinks he's special?

bmfc1 wrote: But go back to my question: what does he show you to deserve such a ranking?

The guy is hitting below .200. I'm not the one who ranked him, and if I did, I certainly woulnd' decide based on a few weeks where he's an injury replacement in a league wheere he's perhaps the youngest player.

Ask the rankers. They usually have a written abstract with their rankings.

bmfc1 wrote: Valid point but for a team that is under intense pressure to make the playoffs, you have to decide if he's worth holding onto so he can help the team, if not today then in the future, in favor of a proven player that is better right now.

And you seem to have made up your mind. Get him down because you want to trade him to save the season.

I don't think that will save it. And is more than likely harmful.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Umps adding insult to injury.

[bmfc1]

FK: yes I do. Edgy made the same point. So he's "a 20 year old prospect. Get him out of here!" The Mets shouldn't be developing players in the majors but the absence of depth made F. Martinez's presence necessary. I understand why they called him up but I don't see what's so great about him. At this time in his career. Now. When he's 20. Do you?

JCL: because sometimes as a fan, you are so passionate that you want what is unrealistic. Castillo didn't even run hard yesterday when the CF slipped on Beltran's flyball.

[Guest Edgy DC]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Umps adding insult to injury.

Pretty disgeraceful call. I'm glad Jerry bothered to come out.

I sure wish he pulled Cora after he stood there on the strike three in the dirt.

[bmfc1]

Edgy: You still haven't figured out where I'm going so perhaps I'm not being clear. I never said that the Mets should trade him. I thought I asked a very simple question. Maybe it was a bad question but I don't see what's so great about him.

[Frayed Knot]

="bmfc1"] So he's "a 20 year old prospect. Get him out of here!"

Out of where, the majors or the organization?
He was here because of a rash of injuries and he's getting a look-see. He'll likely get sent back which I believe was the plan all along unless he suddenly (and unexpectedly) set the league on fire.

]I understand why they called him up but I don't see what's so great about him. At this time in his career. Now. When he's 20. Do you?

I'm not a professional scout and haven't seen anything other than the last two weeks where I see a young player struggling which is the norm for most of them.
But you seem to be stuck in the same dichotomy as Francesa and a bunch of other know-nothings, in effect saying; 'If this guy's so great then get him up here and if he's not then get rid of him' ... as if no other options exist between those extremes.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

bmfc1 wrote: JCL: because sometimes as a fan, you are so passionate that you want what is unrealistic. Castillo didn't even run hard yesterday when the CF slipped on Beltran's flyball.

Just so I have this straight -- you can go around spouting any matter of counterproductive and unrealistic strategies, and get offended when those strategies are gently ridiculed, because you're passionate and I'm not?

[bmfc1]

bmfc1 wrote: So he's "a 20 year old prospect. Get him out of here!"

Out of where, the majors or the organization?

That was just a joke--a play on the NBC reality series.

[Guest Kong76]

I say we just keep running the draw play for three downs and keep punting.

[Guest Edgy DC]

No. You didn't say the Mets should trade him. You said he should be sent down to preserve his trade value.

I disagreed, and think his assignment sould be based on what his value is to the team as a player, not as a trading chip. And you told me I was wrong.

[ashie62]

FMart #1 Flores #2 by Baseball America

BEST
TOOLS
Best Hitter for Average Wilmer Flores
Best Power Hitter Fernando Martinez
Best Strike-Zone Discipline Reese Havens
Fastest Baserunner Javier Rodriguez
Best Athlete Greg Veloz
Best Fastball Brad Holt
Best Curveball Jon Niese
Best Slider Brant Rustich
Best Changeup Dillon Gee
Best Control Dillon Gee
Best Defensive Catcher Mike Nickeas
Best Defensive Infielder Ruben Tejada
Best Infield Arm Shawn Bowman
Best Defensive Outfielder Kirk Nieuwenhuis
Best Outfield Arm Ambiorix Concepcion

PROJECTED 2012
LINEUP
Catcher Francisco Pena
First Base Daniel Murphy
Second Base Reese Havens
Third Base David Wright
Shortstop Jose Reyes
Left Field Fernando Martinez
Center Field Carlos Beltran
Right Field Wilmer Flores
No. 1 Starter Johan Santana
No. 2 Starter Mike Pelfrey
No. 3 Starter Jon Niese
No. 4 Starter Brad Holt
No. 5 Starter John Maine
Closer Francisco Rodriguez

TOP PROSPECTS
OF THE DECADE
Year Player, Position 2008
1999 Alex Escobar, of Nationals
2000 Alex Escobar, of Nationals
2001 Alex Escobar, of Nationals
2002 Aaron Heilman, rhp Mets
2003 Jose Reyes, ss Mets
2004 Kazuo Matsui, ss Astros
2005 Lastings Milledge, of Nationals
2006 Lastings Milledge, of Nationals
2007 Mike Pelfrey, rhp Mets
2008 Fernando Martinez, of Mets

TOP DRAFT PICKS
OF THE DECADE
Year Player, Position 2008
1999 Neal Musser, rhp (2nd round) Royals
2000 Billy Traber, lhp Yankees
2001 Aaron Heilman, rhp Mets
2002 Scott Kazmir, lhp Rays
2003 Lastings Milledge, of Nationals
2004 Philip Humber, rhp Twins
2005 Mike Pelfrey, rhp Mets
2006 Kevin Mulvery, rhp (2nd round) Twins
2007 Eddie Kunz, rhp (1st supp) Mets
2008 Ike Davis, 1b Mets

LARGEST BONUSES
IN CLUB HISTORY
Mike Pelfrey, 2005 $3,550,000
Philip Humber, 2004 $3,000,000
Scott Kazmir, 2002 $2,150,000
Lastings Milledge, 2003 $2,075,000
Geoff Goetz, 1997 $1,700,000

METS
LINKS
Mets' Team Page
Mets Top 10 Scouting Reports
Last Year's Mets Top 10 Prospects
2008 Draft: Mets (Basic Database)
2008 Draft: Mets (Advanced Database)
2008 Draft Report Cards: New York Mets
Complete Index of Top 10 Prospects
Pre-Order the 2009 Prospect Handbook

[Guest Edgy DC]

OK, Sheffield starts the comeback.

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: No. You didn't say the Mets should trade him. You said he should be sent down to preserve his trade value. I disagreed, and think his assignment sould be based on what his value is to the team as a player, not as a trading chip. And you told me I was wrong.

Wouldn't value as a player and a trading chip be one in the same?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Spike Lee looks comfortable in the jerkoff seats.

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: Spike Lee looks comfortable in the jerkoff seats.

Lotsa jerkoff seats in YS3

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ashie62 wrote: ="Edgy DC"]No. You didn't say the Mets should trade him. You said he should be sent down to preserve his trade value. I disagreed, and think his assignment sould be based on what his value is to the team as a player, not as a trading chip. And you told me I was wrong. Wouldn't value as a player and a trading chip be one in the same?

No.

[Frayed Knot]

Ashie62 wrote: ="Edgy DC"]No. You didn't say the Mets should trade him. You said he should be sent down to preserve his trade value. I disagreed, and think his assignment sould be based on what his value is to the team as a player, not as a trading chip. And you told me I was wrong. Wouldn't value as a player and a trading chip be one in the same?

No, because the former is based on the current while the latter (usually) on the future.

[bmfc1]

Thanks for posting that Ashie. Very interesting. I just wonder what F. Martinez has to deserve that ranking.

JCL: you were more than "gentle", in my opinion. And re-read my comment: I didn't say that you were dispassionate. I just said that I was being passionate. I have too much regard for you to insult you in the manner you suggested.

This blows. We should be angry at this game. Onto Balmer.

I think I'll use this free time to take my son to see "The Hangover." Edgy, if you're in the neighborhood, we'll be at the Centerpark theaters.

[Frayed Knot]

bmfc1 wrote: Thanks for posting that Ashie. Very interesting. I just wonder what F. Martinez has to deserve that ranking.

- show enough promise as a 16 y/o amateur to earn himself a mutli-million dollar bonus
- have the type of physical prowess plus the baseball-specific skills which not only allows him to compete and succeed as a professional but also that scouts expect will allow him to grow in the sport as he advances
- consistently played well in each step even as he's been advance rapidly, had to battle through several injuries, and been several rungs above the majority of his age group
- been among the league's hitting leaders as a 20 y/o in AAA at the time of his call-up

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

This whole game goes back to those shitty calls against Cora in the 3rd. I want a do-over.

[Guest Edgy DC]

We'll get three.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Who do you like as an emergency pitcher?

Wilson Valdez?
Omir Santos?
Gary Sheffield?

[Guest Kong76]

JCL: This whole game goes back to those shitty calls against Cora in the 3rd <<<

Try pulling that one out at the water cooler tomorrow.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

OK, I'mon vacation in Wisconsin and just jumped in. WTF? Is Santana hurt or something?

[Guest Swan Swan H]

="metsguyinmichigan"]OK, I'mon vacation in Wisconsin and just jumped in. WTF? Is Santana hurt or something?

Waitaminute...people go to Wisconsin on vacation?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Heck yeah. Wisconsin Dells. Water park capital of the world.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Michiganders do.

People in Minnesota tell Wisconsin jokes, if you believe Garrison Keillor.

[MFS62]

Edgy DC wrote: Michiganders do. People in Minnesota tell Wisconsin jokes, if you believe Garrison Keillor.

Why did the badger cross the road? ...
That's all I got.

Later