Meister Brau SuotG 6/12/09 - MFYs 9, Mets 8

[Guest Edgy DC]

i gave Castillo two errors on that play, plus a multiplication because it was the ninth. He's still far from the top here though.

Hernandez -2.71
FMartinez -2.03
Murphy -1.49
Switzer -1.22
Tatis -1.08
Schneider -0.71
Santos -0.45
Castillo -0.32

[Gwreck]

I belive the Mets win expectancy was 99.99999999999999999% when Rodriguez got Rodriguez to pop up, and they still lost.

Sorry, Luis.

Castillo -2,000

[Guest Edgy DC]

That's a way to look at it.

[Gwreck]

It's harder to be rational and it hurts quite a bit more when you're there in person.

[Guest holychicken]

I don't see how you look at it any other way. Even rationally speaking, he makes the easy catch, we win, he misses the easy catch we lose. That is a 100% swing on an easy play.

Castillo -2000 sounds about right.

[seawolf17]

I'm going to pin juuuuust a little bit on Frankie for the walks, though.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

="seawolf17":3qjghks0]I'm going to pin juuuuust a little bit on Frankie for the walks, though.[/quote:3qjghks0] That would be walk, singular. Jeter singled and stole second, and Tiexiera was essentially a pitch-around - a strategy that worked just as it was planned, save for the dropped pop-up.

Hawkeye57 Jun 13 2009 02:55 PM

Castillo -ALL

Edgy DC Jun 13 2009 04:51 PM

Sheesh, let's at least try to contextualize this stuff. It doesn't happen in a void. Before the game-ending error, he had two walks, a stolen base, and a run scored. Hernandez gave up six runs, including three homers, in little over five innings. Switzer gave up a three-run jobber, Fenando Martinez went 0-4 and fell back onto the interstate, and the catcher's spot in the order wentr 0-4, while taking their share of the pitchers' failures. Rodriguez, as we know, did his job pitching the mets' into the mess that set up the error.

Gwreck Jun 13 2009 09:53 PM

It's impossible to set up an error. You can set up a rally by having poor command and giving free passes onto the bases. You can set up a rally by failing to retire crappy hitters and having them get on. But you can't set up a dropped pop-up. No pitcher can reasonably be expected to be perfect all of the time. That's why there are three bases on which to put people before you necessarily give up runs. Rodriguez tends to put the occasional hitter on base, and that *could* certainly blow up in his face if he were to walk in a run, or give up a bases-clearing double, or something else that was in his control. I'd consider putting some blame on him if the ball hit required some sort of special defensive effort (ie. a diving stop to keep a ball from going down the line and being a double). But at the end of the game, when it mattered -- Francisco did his job. He pitched around Texieria (yes, risky) but then he manned up and got Alex Rodriguez (not exactly a shabby player) to pop up. A play that required replacement-level defense and nothing more. There is no blame for Rodriguez in this situation.

Edgy DC Jun 13 2009 10:05 PM

I have to disagree. There's a reason they call it margin for error. If you don't chew up your margin for error, you serve your team better by better insuring them against what Castillo did.insuring them

Gwreck Jun 14 2009 01:42 AM

How much margin of error do you have to have? Does a pitcher need a perfect inning every time out? 'Cause that would have been the necessary "margin of error" to protect against what Castillo did. It's unacceptable to require that. As you argued above, Castillo really made two errors. Sure, Jeter scores as a result of the dropped pop-up. But Texiera doesn't score as well unless Castillo then makes the monumentally stupid move to throw to second base. Did Rodriguez really have an affirmative duty to make sure we had a margin for that size and/or number of error(s)? No.

Edgy DC Jun 14 2009 05:30 AM

="Gwreck":1hc53b8r]How much margin of error do you have to have? Does a pitcher need a perfect inning every time out? 'Cause that would have been the necessary "margin of error" to protect against what Castillo did.[/quote:1hc53b8r] That's demonstrably untrue.

[Guest Hawkeye57]

Castillo -ALL

[Guest Edgy DC]

Sheesh, let's at least try to contextualize this stuff. It doesn't happen in a void. Before the game-ending error, he had two walks, a stolen base, and a run scored.

Hernandez gave up six runs, including three homers, in little over five innings. Switzer gave up a three-run jobber, Fenando Martinez went 0-4 and fell back onto the interstate, and the catcher's spot in the order wentr 0-4, while taking their share of the pitchers' failures.

Rodriguez, as we know, did his job pitching the mets' into the mess that set up the error.

[Gwreck]

It's impossible to set up an error.

You can set up a rally by having poor command and giving free passes onto the bases. You can set up a rally by failing to retire crappy hitters and having them get on. But you can't set up a dropped pop-up.

No pitcher can reasonably be expected to be perfect all of the time. That's why there are three bases on which to put people before you necessarily give up runs. Rodriguez tends to put the occasional hitter on base, and that *could* certainly blow up in his face if he were to walk in a run, or give up a bases-clearing double, or something else that was in his control.

I'd consider putting some blame on him if the ball hit required some sort of special defensive effort (ie. a diving stop to keep a ball from going down the line and being a double).

But at the end of the game, when it mattered -- Francisco did his job. He pitched around Texieria (yes, risky) but then he manned up and got Alex Rodriguez (not exactly a shabby player) to pop up. A play that required replacement-level defense and nothing more.

There is no blame for Rodriguez in this situation.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I have to disagree. There's a reason they call it margin for error. If you don't chew up your margin for error, you serve your team better by better insuring them against what Castillo did.insuring them

[Gwreck]

How much margin of error do you have to have? Does a pitcher need a perfect inning every time out? 'Cause that would have been the necessary "margin of error" to protect against what Castillo did. It's unacceptable to require that.

As you argued above, Castillo really made two errors. Sure, Jeter scores as a result of the dropped pop-up. But Texiera doesn't score as well unless Castillo then makes the monumentally stupid move to throw to second base.

Did Rodriguez really have an affirmative duty to make sure we had a margin for that size and/or number of error(s)? No.

[Guest Edgy DC]

="Gwreck":1hc53b8r]How much margin of error do you have to have? Does a pitcher need a perfect inning every time out? 'Cause that would have been the necessary "margin of error" to protect against what Castillo did.[/quote:1hc53b8r] That's demonstrably untrue.