2009 Hall of fame ballot announced

[Valadius]

Santo and Allen both deserve it.

[seawolf17]

="Nymr83":1g5y35ta]Allen has a 156 OPS+ over 15 years, that should be automatic inclusion.[/quote:1g5y35ta] Hey! We agree!

Edgy DC Dec 03 2008 08:12 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 06 2008 07:39 AM

I don't think there's such a thing as an automatic anything. Bill James pretty much says he jerked his way out of the Hall of Fame and seems to agree, or at least acknowledge where the writers were coming from. You don't have to agree, but I think declaring anything to be a no-brainer is intellectually lazy. The time for thinkers has come.

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2008 07:20 AM

More Raines love A rather lengthy treatise on why Tim Raines belongs, comparing him as a leadoff hitter to other leadoffs already in or likely headed for the HoF and reaching concluions like; Take a big part of Rickey Henderson and Pete Rose, add a good size part of Lou Brock, Paul Molitor, and Craig Biggio, and stir in some Ichiro Suzuki, Wade Boggs, Joe Morgan, Derek Jeter, and Barry Bonds, and you get a composite that is a shade inferior to Tim Raines. ... and then doing the same with Raines as #3 hitter, and then again as an overall career. I'm convinced.

Edgy DC Dec 06 2008 07:44 AM

We tend to say we're offended by the use of magic number thresholds reached in compiling career totals, but isn't the failure to reach 3,000 hits the main case against Raines? And couldn't he have pulled it of pretty easily if he (1) walked a little less, or (2) spent his disease-diminished twilight hitting full-time at league average for a lesser team rather than hitting part-time above league average for contenders?

Valadius Dec 06 2008 09:21 PM

You can't blame a guy for wanting to win championships.

Frayed Knot Jan 05 2009 09:16 AM

Results revealed a week from today. Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:fmb4ds8p] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking. Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices).

Nymr83 Jan 05 2009 09:39 AM

="Frayed Knot":3l2ojh0o]Results revealed a week from today. Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:3l2ojh0o] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking. Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices).[/quote:3l2ojh0o] "The statistics stand the test of time. Our memories are not as reliable." That should be rule #1 of HOF voting. metirish Jan 05 2009 09:45 AM That's some good stuff there form Davidoff . I like his honesty and that he can change from year to year.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think there's such a thing as an automatic anything.

Bill James pretty much says he jerked his way out of the Hall of Fame and seems to agree, or at least acknowledge where the writers were coming from.

You don't have to agree, but I think declaring anything to be a no-brainer is intellectually lazy. The time for thinkers has come.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

More Raines love

A rather lengthy treatise on why Tim Raines belongs, comparing him as a leadoff hitter to other leadoffs already in or likely headed for the HoF and reaching concluions like; Take a big part of Rickey Henderson and Pete Rose, add a good size part of Lou Brock, Paul Molitor, and Craig Biggio, and stir in some Ichiro Suzuki, Wade Boggs, Joe Morgan, Derek Jeter, and Barry Bonds, and you get a composite that is a shade inferior to Tim Raines. ...

and then doing the same with Raines as #3 hitter, and then again as an overall career.

I'm convinced.

[Guest Edgy DC]

We tend to say we're offended by the use of magic number thresholds reached in compiling career totals, but isn't the failure to reach 3,000 hits the main case against Raines?

And couldn't he have pulled it of pretty easily if he (1) walked a little less, or (2) spent his disease-diminished twilight hitting full-time at league average for a lesser team rather than hitting part-time above league average for contenders?

[Valadius]

You can't blame a guy for wanting to win championships.

[Frayed Knot]

Results revealed a week from today.

Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:fmb4ds8p] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking.


Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices).

[nymr83]

="Frayed Knot":3l2ojh0o]Results revealed a week from today. Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:3l2ojh0o] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking. Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices).[/quote:3l2ojh0o] "The statistics stand the test of time. Our memories are not as reliable." That should be rule #1 of HOF voting.

metirish Jan 05 2009 09:45 AM

That's some good stuff there form Davidoff . I like his honesty and that he can change from year to year.

[metirish]

That's some good stuff there form Davidoff . I like his honesty and that he can change from year to year.