Man-Ram

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Jay Ray Bay to MA: A-OK!

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

The Times is also reporting the deal.

[G-Fafif]

Colonial historians are already pushing for the nickname Massachusetts Bay.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The Pirates will receive Andy LaRoche and right-hander Bryan Morris from the Dodgers and outfielder Damien Moss and releiver Craig Hansen from the Red Sox, sez Ken Rosenthal.

[Vic Sage]

Jon Heyman sez:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/31/manny.sweepstakes/index.html?eref=T1

Ramirez signed off on the deal, contingent upon the two $20-million team options for 2009 and '10 being dropped, making him a FA after the season.

Pittsburgh gets Craign Hansen and Brandon Moss (from Boston), as well as third baseman Andy LaRoche (Dodgers) and a fourth minor leaguer from LA who has yet to be confirmed.(Bryan Morris?)

The Red Sox are paying the $7 million remaining on Ramirez's $20 million salary for this year.

[bmfc1]

The Mets couldn't have matched LaRoche and a minor-minor leaguer?

[Vic Sage]

so let me get this straight:

the BoSox trade Manny, Hansen and a prospect, plus they pay remaining $7m of Manny's salary... for Jason Bay?

that deal sux for sox.

Now I'm annoyed.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

bmfc1 wrote: The Mets couldn't have matched LaRoche and a minor-minor leaguer?

Nope. The Mets don't have anyone like LaRoche- a major league-ready, skill defensive position playing, high upside prospect.

[Guest attgig]

now the pirates have two A. LaRoche's what's the back of the uni's gonna look like?

LaRoche 1 & LaRoche 2? =)

I wonder if this LaRoche is going to disappear off the face of the earth once he gets to the burgh like the other LaRoche did...

[Guest holychicken]

attgig wrote: now the pirates have two A. LaRoche's what's the back of the uni's gonna look like? LaRoche 1 & LaRoche 2? =) I wonder if this LaRoche is going to disappear off the face of the earth once he gets to the burgh like the other LaRoche did...

Better yet, how are they going to do their Schaefer scoring with Grimm losing his mind?

[Guest AG/DC]

Most sports precendent does it like this:

ADAM LAROCHE 17

[Guest AG/DC]

The LA Rams' Youngbloods did that, but they also used second letters in other years:

[Guest attgig]

or maybe they go the way of Ichiro, and put down Andy and Adam on their backs.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Or just let two guys have the same name on their backs, like the Mets do with REYES and REYES.

If I remember correctly, in the 1980's Davey Johnson was JOHNSON and HoJo was H. JOHNSON.

[apmorris]

Like Andruw Jones, Manny will fall into "whatever happened to that guy?" territory and wind up sitting on the DL for long stretches (and eat his way out of baseball).

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

apmorris wrote: Like Andruw Jones, Manny will fall into "whatever happened to that guy?" territory and wind up sitting on the DL for long stretches (and eat his way out of baseball).

Yeah, I'm gonna have to sort of disagree here. Andruw Jones was never the hitter Manny is. Jones' career .339 OBP and .490 SLG isn't in the same ball park as Manny's .409/.590. Jones was a comparable player when he was playing stellar centerfield, but Manny's been head and shoulders above him for a long time now. If Manny dropped as far as Andruw Jones has dropped, he'd still be nearly as good a hitter as Jones' career averages.

[metsmarathon]

manny's eqa this year is 0.319; bay's is 0.325

manny's ops+ is 140; bay's is 135

manny's zone rating is 0.744; bay's is 0.806

not that i know much about their farm system and who they gave up, but i don't think boston weakened themselves nearly as much as do the radio guys (who all seem to think that the sawx abdicated the al east to the yankees)

[soupcan]

I would think Dodger fans would be over the moon about this deal but after checking the reaction on the dodgerblues forum its really mixed and I think even slanted toward a thumbs down.

They're whining about giving up LaRoche. Odd.

[Frayed Knot]

BA's look at Pitt's new babies:

- Injuries have sidetracked the 24-year-old Andy LaRoche, who is the brother of Pirates first baseman Adam, and he's managed to hit just .217/.348/.316 in 152 big league at-bats with the Dodgers spread over this season and last. An accomplished Triple-A hitter (.310/.412/.544 in 590 at-bats where he's spent significant time in each of the past three seasons. LaRoche's most positive attributes are advanced pitch recognition and a good feel for hitting, as he lets the ball travel deep and has the bat speed to catch up to good fastballs. He's got average power for third base, where he is a below-average defender.

- Craig Hansen, 24, was a first-round pick out of St. John's in 2005, and he signed the richest draft deal in Red Sox history, a $4 million major league contract. Promoted to the majors shortly after his signing, Hansen struggled with his delivery and his command for much of 2006 and 2007. He has made strides this year, but his lack of consistent command continues to undermine his mid-90s fastball and his hard slider. Hansen has been part of a struggling Boston bullpen, and has gone 1-3, 5.58 in 32 big league games this year. Opponents are hitting .240 with two homers against him, while his strikeout-to-walk ratio is just 25-to-23 in 31 innings.

- Bryan Morris may be the most intriguing prospect picked up by the Pirates at the 2008 trade deadline. The 21-year-old RHP was just hitting his stride in July with low Class A Great Lakes, after missing the 2007 season to Tommy John surgery. The Dodgers' 1st-round pick in 2006 (26th overall), Morris was 2-4, 3.20 with 72 strikeouts, 31 walks and five home runs allowed in 82 innings for the Loons. He runs his fastball up to 94-96 mph and complements it with a plus hammer curveball. He had also shown a feel for an 86-88 mph power changeup that features hard downer movement.

- Brandon Moss, 24, was an 8th-round pick out of a Georgia high school in 2002. The MVP of the South Atlantic League in 2004 and the Eastern League playoffs in 2006, he has the upside of a solid regular but was unlikely to get the opportunity to show that in Boston. In 176 games for Triple-A Pawtucket, the lefthanded batter had hit .282/.359/.485. His strong hands and the leverage in his swing give him the ability to hit for power and average, though he can fall into ruts when he becomes too homer-conscious. Though a slightly below-average runner, he covers enough ground and has the arm strength for right field. Moss has career .291/.348/.456 averages with two homers and 12 RBIs in 103 at-bats over 49 big league games.

[Frayed Knot]

Innuresting take on the outcome of the whole Manny deal by BP's Joe Sheehan

[metirish]

Great article , a very interesting take indeed and he puts the boot into Dodger management and questions Joe Torre in regards to Pierre.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Christina Kahrl also dislikes the move for LA:

]The nicest way to look at this move is that it gives the Dodgers a financial no-cost upgrade to an outfield hobbled by Ned Colletti's consecutive center-field mistakes; put Manny in left, reduce Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre to expensive spectators, and roll on to the division title. A sensible plan, no? It's possible, probable even, and benching Jones might even represent a bit of wish fulfillment mixed with a good dose of reaction formation. Even so, somehow I can't shake the feeling that they'll struggle to bench Pierre for being exactly what you should expect him to be, and that the speedster will filch a few starts from Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp, on the days when he isn't starting for Ramirez because the big bopper's got an owie to massage or a sulky jag to ride out. That aside, it's an obvious improvement to a lineup that needed the help, although the problem is whether or not this means that the Dodgers will wind up picking up the 2009 or 2010 options. If they have to or had to to get his Mannyness to agree to the trade, a deal that doesn't cost them anything now financially will end up becoming a bit of a millstone, since they'll be stuck with an increasingly fragile lead-gloved old man in left, and if that's what they wanted for their stretch run, why not just keep LaRoche and sign Barry Bonds? It's worth asking that question, because while the immediate financial expense is negligible, where this deal costs the Dodgers right now is in talent, talent that they need now, and will need far into the future. LaRoche could wind up being the best bet to be the Pirates' token All-Star for the next five or six years, and not simply because a Pirate has to go, but because there are few better bets to star at the hot corner in the years to come. Having dealt him, future Dodgers squads will have to find their third baseman on the free-agent market�with the man who gave you Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre doing the shopping�lest they have to return to Blake DeWitt. Neither of those things have as much to offer a team as LaRoche, so in terms of measuring the full cost of what adding Manny does for this team, you've got to throw that onto the scale; signing Barry Bonds would not have cost them Andy LaRoche, and it would have involved no more (or less) of a distraction than Manny being Manny will, no matter how star-struck and craven the local media may be during its first exposure to the man. LaRoche was expensive enough, but Morris isn't chopped liver; although less developed, having pitched in Low-A after missing all of 2007 after Tommy John surgery, he's also talented enough to come back to haunt them.

[apmorris]

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: ="apmorris"]Like Andruw Jones, Manny will fall into "whatever happened to that guy?" territory and wind up sitting on the DL for long stretches (and eat his way out of baseball). Yeah, I'm gonna have to sort of disagree here. Andruw Jones was never the hitter Manny is. Jones' career .339 OBP and .490 SLG isn't in the same ball park as Manny's .409/.590. Jones was a comparable player when he was playing stellar centerfield, but Manny's been head and shoulders above him for a long time now. If Manny dropped as far as Andruw Jones has dropped, he'd still be nearly as good a hitter as Jones' career averages.

I didn't mean to compare Jones and Manny stats-wise or even player status-wise, it was more of a "he can come out here (I'm in LA), lay low, get fat, get hurt, collect his pension, and no one will notice" statement. Believe me, Dodger fan doesn't even know Jones and Nomar are ON his team. Its friggin pathetic. Maybe after a year and a half in the Twilight Zone that is Sports in LA - he'll go DH in the AL.

.

[Frayed Knot]

"Maybe after a year and a half in the Twilight Zone that is Sports in LA - he'll go DH in the AL. "

It won't take that long. Manny's contract ends after this season and so does his stint with the Dodgers.


btw, I heard a brief snippet of an interview with Pirates GM Neil Humtington this morning -- and his answer as to what time the deal got completed yesterday he answered; "3:59"

[apmorris]

Available

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Jason Bay went 1-3 with a triple and 2 walks in his Red Sox debut. He scored both of the Red Sox runs in their 2-1 victory over Oakland.

Junior had a pair of RBI singles, a walk, and scored a run in the White Sox 4-2 victory over the Royals.

[Elster88]

Nymr83 wrote: they're not trading away manny ramirez in the middle of a penant race. end of (non-)story.

Valadiusesque

[apmorris]

BatMan