Alou and the LF gang

[Farmer Ted]

I'd do an over/under on INNINGS it takes Alou to hit the Dead List.

[Guest attgig]

I'm going to use the same argument for Chris Aguila. I know he doesn't have the same AAA track record that Pascucci has, but he deserves a shot imo.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

FWIW, Pasciucci's numbers look something similar to Trot Nixon's in AAA, though he whiffs more.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving him a shot especially after we release Anderson.

[Guest attgig]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: FWIW, Pasciucci's numbers look something similar to Trot Nixon's in AAA, though he whiffs more. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving him a shot especially after we release Anderson.

Omar might give him a shot if he was 6 years older and was injured a bit more....

[nymr83]

attgig wrote: I'm going to use the same argument for Chris Aguila. I know he doesn't have the same AAA track record that Pascucci has, but he deserves a shot imo.

but thats why Pascucci dserves a shot first IMO

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

VC Firecracker - "For what it's worth, yesterday Alou hit a rehab HR off some 20 year old with a 5.5 ERA in the Gulf Coast League. He should be back with the big league team in a few days. When he gets hurt after that, who knows? 2 days? 3?"

I'm amazed he didn't strain a hammy during his home run trot. Whatever he does, I hope he doesn't hit a double i the gap during his rehab or his comeback will likely be over before he joins the Mets.

[Guest AG/DC]

attgig wrote: Omar might give him a shot if he was 6 years older and was injured a bit more....

="Rockin' Doc"]I'm amazed he didn't strain a hammy during his home run trot. Whatever he does, I hope he doesn't hit a double i the gap during his rehab or his comeback will likely be over before he joins the Mets.

Let's not get too fatalistic and miserable here. (You know, Alou has a steal of home this year.) The Mets (a) have young players in several big roles, ( could be in worse position this season © could still stand a contribution from the old gimps.

I'm still going to advocate for recongnizing the opprtunity that Pascucci has learned.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Ah, come on , lighten up a little Edgy. I fully realize, as I'm quite sure attgig does as well, how good a hitter Alou still can be. We are just making light of Alou's well documented penchant for injury. His absence from the Mets line up (available 19 of 84 games)* has definitely hurt the offense.

Let's just say that at this point I have learned not to count on Alou for this season, or heaven forbid, the future beyond 2008. I hope he can come back and contribute, but anything we get from him is now just a bonus in my eyes.

Willie may have been the one to get fired, but it was Minaya that stocked this team with veterans with a history for breaking down (Alou, Martinez, and Hernandez), but that's a discussion for another thread.

* Alou's availability in 2008
3/21/08 - 5/01/08 - Alou on DL (missed 26 games)
5/02/08 - 5/21/08 - Alou on active roster and available to play (available for 18 games)
5/22/08 - 6/09/08 - Alou on DL (missed 18 games)
6/10/08 - 6/10/08 - Alou on active roster and available to play (available 1 game)
6/11/08 - ??? - Alou on DL - Return expected soon (missed 21 games and counting)

[Guest AG/DC]

My issue remains not the injury issues --- we all understood the risk going in, got a discount for it, and didn't set the place a fire -- but rather the lack of, and lack of trust in, solid alternative options when he did go down.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I believe the Mets were counting on Angel Pagan and Endy Chavez to be the 4th and 5th outfielders. Which wasn't all that unreasonable to me. Unfortunately, not only did Alou go down, but Ryan Church has missed large chunks of playing time to injury. Pagan goes down and suddenly Endy is forced to be a regular. I agree with your earlier ascertion that Pascucci has earned a shot to help the Mets outfield situation.

I would be fine with cutting loose Anderson and giving Pascucci a shot, but with Alou expected to return soon, I doubt he will get that chance.

[Gwreck]

It's one thing to cut a journeyman who you're paying nothing to (your Trot Nixons, Brady Clarks, etc) but it's a bigger swallow to cut loose Anderson, who is under contract through 2009.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Rubin:

]Pascucci not on Manuel's radar For all those minor-league followers clamoring for Valentino Pascucci to get called up from New Orleans, here�s some sobering news from Jerry Manuel: �I�ll be honest with, who is he?� Manuel asked with a laugh. Told he was a power hitter with the Zephyrs, Manuel added: �Okay. I apologize. I haven�t the slightest idea. Was he in spring training?�

[Guest AG/DC]

Ouch.

I'm not surprised, but ouch.

[Frayed Knot]

Of course it's not really Manual's job to keep on top of that.

Now if OMAR gives you the same answer ...

[Guest AG/DC]

My thinking with Alou was originally that he was a good risk as long as you have his successor in place ready to step in. His job, then, is to hold off the succession as long as possible.

In 2007, we had Milledge and Gomez on the cusp, and that was on target. This year, with a more mature version of both guys, this injury might have led to an exciting time. Instead, I've been tuning my radio to the retread blues.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Everyone knew Alou was going to get hurt repeatedly this year. I also thought re-signing wasn't that bad since they'd have either Gomez or Milledge available to fill in for him. Trading both of them landed the Mets an everyday right fielder and an ace, but cost them any depth in the outfield.

If Endy Chavez can continue to hit at replacement level (this is not a given), his 21 FRAR make him a passable 4th outfielder. If Alou is out but Church is playing, an outfield of Chavez (in right?), Beltran and Church isn't all that bad. The problem, of course, is that Church has also been out for a long time and no one knows when he'll be back for good.

So, unless Alou comes back and stays back for a decent amount of time, the Mets need another outfielder. Marlon Anderson and Trot Nixon and Chris Aguila and Fernando Tatis (late-inning heroics aside) are not getting it done. I think Val Pascucci will hit in the majors, especially against lefties, but I think of him as a platoon partner at first base more than a left fielder (I suspect he will be completely unusable in the outfield). Since the Mets don't seem to have any major-league ready prospects, they'll probably have to reach outside of the organization to get one.

I don't see the Mets being able to trade for someone like Xavier Nady without gutting an already poor minor league system, and I don't see them signing He who shall not be named, but what about Kenny Lofton? He wouldn't be that expensive, he wouldn't cost you much of anything in terms of prospects (he's a type B free agent) and PECOTA projects him to hit .275/.346/.398; which isn't great but is a damn sight better than what we've been getting. If Alou comes back, he'd need days off, so I don't think Lofton would raise too much of a stink about going to the bench (I could be wrong about that, of course).

Whaddya think?

If someone's already mentioned this, I apologize. It just came to my mind today.

[Gwreck]

I have been on the Kenny Lofton bandwagon for a while now. Also some Lofton discussion here.

Also, in your suggestion regarding the outfield, if it is Beltran, Church and Chavez, why would you play Chavez in right? Church's defense is solidly above-average, but doesn't have the equal proficiency in the 3 OF positions that Chavez does.

[Guest AG/DC]

Chavez has the best arm, period. I'm sure Churchie could flourish in right given suffiecient motivation.

That's a good defense.

[Fman99]

I don't see Lofton as a good fit. I think if you're going to bring in another outfielder it needs to be someone like Nady, who can hit for power in the middle of the lineup somewhere. Basically hit like Alou, either as a righty or a lefty.

I don't see a real difference between Chavez/Anderson and Lofton. They are all glorified slap-hitters with minimal power. I'd rather see someone with some pop.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Gwreck wrote: I have been on the Kenny Lofton bandwagon for a while now. Also, in your suggestion regarding the outfield, if it is Beltran, Church and Chavez, why would you play Chavez in right? Church's defense is solidly above-average, but doesn't have the equal proficiency in the 3 OF positions that Chavez does.

I was just wondering whether Chavez's defense would have more value to the team in right than left. I don't know if it would or not.
I figured someone would have mentioned Lofton already, I just didn't see it. Put me down in your camp, then.

[Guest AG/DC]

While you're looking backwards, is Milwaukee excited enough by Gabe Kapler/desperate enough for pitching to run an Ollie + prospect-for-Mike Cameron deal?

[Fman99]

AG/DC wrote: While you're looking backwards, is Milwaukee excited enough by Gabe Kapler/desperate enough for pitching to run an Ollie + prospect-for-Mike Cameron deal?

I have to think Cammy's days of shifting to a corner OF to accomodate another player are all done. If he had his druthers, that is.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

AG/DC wrote: While you're looking backwards, is Milwaukee excited enough by Gabe Kapler/desperate enough for pitching to run an Ollie + prospect-for-Mike Cameron deal?

Even though he's not going to stay as good as he's been in his last few starts, I don't think the Mets can afford to trade Oliver Perez. Pedro hasn't been very good and could end up on the DL at any moment and I thoroughly convinced El Duque will never play in the majors again. In the event of a Pedro injury and Perez trade, the rotation would be Santana/ Maine/ Pelfrey/ Armas/ Vargas, which is shakier than Philly's rotation.

[nymr83]

Cameron isn't good enough to be worth trading Perez for in my opinion.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I always liked Mike Cameron and have grown tired of Oliver Perez and his Jekyll/Hyde act on the mound. Still, I agree with Firecracker that the Mets depth in the rotation is quite limited, which makes me leery to trade away a starter.

Besides, after adding C. C. Sabbathia to their rotation, I doubt the Brewers are quite as desperate for starting pitching today as they were 48 hours ago.

[Guest AG/DC]

Well, I don't want to trade anybody, but what are you folks thinking of dealing?

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

AG/DC wrote: Well, I don't want to trade anybody, but what are you folks thinking of dealing?

That's an easy one. We can trade that guy, you know? The one with all that value to the rest of the league, but is actually expendable to the Mets. That guy who will get us a useful return, but won't wind up biting us in the ass after he's traded. Umm, what was his name again?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Billy F. Wagner.

Ooops, I forgot, Dr. Omar gave him complete trade vaccination.

[Guest AG/DC]

Almost every poster in this thread is wearing a designation that projects the ghost of a bad trade past.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

AG/DC wrote: Almost every poster in this thread is wearing a designation that projects the ghost of a bad trade past.

You think the Hampton trade was bad? Or were you excluding your own designation?