IGT 05/11/08 -- Reds @ Mets

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

It sounds like Willie is paying attention, but unfortunately neither he or any of the coaching staff knew the rules well enough to take full advantage of the Reds mistake.

[batmagadanleadoff]

http://www.retrosheet.org/outturn.htm

Batting out of turn.

[Zvon]

Books ><

[batmagadanleadoff]

5/2/1995 The Mets game in Montreal produced a comedy of errors. This was the first home game of the season for Montreal and their sixth overall. There were substitute umpires working major league games to start this season since the regular arbiters were locked out by the owners. When Luis Aquino and Cliff Floyd entered the game in the top of the sixth, the home plate umpire, Don January, incorrectly decided that Aquino was batting fifth and Floyd ninth. When Floyd came to bat in the #5 slot, Mets� manager Dallas Green told January that the Expos were batting out of order. Expos manager Felipe Alou claimed he had Floyd fifth and Aquino ninth and that January made the mistake. Alou was ejected. January then allowed Floyd to bat and ground out, despite knowing that he was not the proper batter. Then January called Aquino out for not batting in order and sent the runner back (that, at least, was the right call.) After calling Aquino out, the next batter should be the one in the sixth spot, Sean Berry. However, January decided that Aquino should bat now. He singled to left and then Berry ended the inning with a ground out. Thus, Aquino had two at bats in one time through the batting order. Despite this confusion the Expos won, 9-6.

http://www.retrosheet.org/outturn.htm

[batmagadanleadoff]

4/29/1977 - In a game in San Diego, the Mets batted out of order through the whole game. The lineup featured Roy Staiger batting sixth, John Stearns seventh and Bud Harrelson eighth. This was a change from recent games when Stearns was sixth and Staiger seventh and the two batted this way four times in a row. In the first inning, Stearns hit into an inning-ending double play. Staiger made and out and Harrelson singled in the second (both batting out of turn.) Stearns led off the fourth with a home run but the Padres said nothing. Both Staiger and Harrelson made outs, again out of order. In the fifth, Stearns and Staiger were both out but Harrelson started the sixth by reaching on an infield error. With two out in the seventh, Stearns walked and Staiger singled him to third. However, the Padres finally speak up and the umpires incorrectly declare Staiger out instead of Harrelson, who led off the eighth inning. Even with all the batting changes, the Mets lost the game, 9-2.

http://www.retrosheet.org/outturn.htm

[bmfc1]

nymr has it exactly right. I know this from coaching youth baseball. We had a game a few seasons ago when we ended an inning on play at the plate. The batter that hit the ball started the next inning. After he singled in the next inning, I told the ump. He went to the other team and they denied it (which was impossible). Since they were "home", they had the official book so their lineup was the one that counted and they got away with it. We won the game anyway. I'm not bitter at all.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Rockin' Doc wrote: It sounds like Willie is paying attention, but unfortunately neither he or any of the coaching staff knew the rules well enough to take full advantage of the Reds mistake.

Even the umpires screw this rule up. Try reading through this link:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting_out_of_turn

[nymr83]

the umpires and managers are PAID to know this rule, providing us with a link and saying "well, its confusing" isn't an excuse for them, its an excuse for the fan who didnt get it.

[Zvon]

Very interesting that this is right in there:

]If the team at bat does not gain by the illegal action, the opposing manager usually says nothing. However, when that illegal batter does advance the cause of his team by advancing or scoring a runner, then it is time to speak out.

Maybe Willie had pitch count on his mind, I dunno.
But I do hope he learned something here, and I do hope it someday comes up again so I can find out if he did learn anything.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Nymr83 wrote: the umpires and managers are PAID to know this rule, providing us with a link and saying "well, its confusing" isn't an excuse for them, its an excuse for the fan who didnt get it.

Where did I excuse anybody?

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

This is the appropriate section that covers batting our of order. Probably not a bad idea to keep a rule book handy in the dugout for quick reference when such occurences come up.

6.07
BATTING OUT OF TURN.
(a) A batter shall be called out, on appeal, when he fails to bat in his proper turn, and another batter completes a time at bat in his place.
(1) The proper batter may take his place in the batter�s box at any time before the improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and any balls and strikes shall be counted in the proper batter�s time at bat.
( When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter�s advance to first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise.
NOTE: If a runner advances, while the improper batter is at bat, on a stolen base, balk, wild pitch or passed ball, such advance is legal.
© When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and a pitch is made to the next batter of either team before an appeal is made, the improper batter thereby becomes the proper batter, and the results of his time at bat become legal.
(d) (1) When the proper batter is called out because he has failed to bat in turn, the next batter shall be the batter whose name follows that of the proper batter thus called out; (2) When an improper batter becomes a proper batter because no appeal is made before the next pitch, the next batter shall be the batter whose name follows that of such legalized improper batter. The instant an improper batter�s actions are legalized, the batting order picks up with the name following that of the legalized improper batter.

[Guest themetfairy]

This is the sort of rule that Bobby Valentine would know backwards and forwards in his sleep.

I'm just sayin....

[batmagadanleadoff]

Reds bat out of order in 9th inning during 8-3 loss to Mets

excerpt:

"Crew chief Dale Scott said he'd never seen it happen in 23 years of umpiring.

'Batting out of order can be one of the more confusing rules,' he said. 'You have to really think it through. We wanted to make sure we were doing it right.'"
____________________

Preemptive Disclaimer: The author of this post is clearly not excusing whatever confusion may or may not have afflicted any of the professionals involved in the above referenced play, even though the author of this post has provided a link quoting one of the involved umpires as acknowledging the confusing nature of the batting-out-of-order rule. The author further hopes that he himself is not deemed out-of-order in providing this disclaimer and also expects that no one here will be confused by the nature of this post, notwithstanding the confusing nature of the batting-out-of order-rule.

[Guest AG/DC]

The main person who should be embarassed here is Dusty Baker.