First off. . .the coaching staff

[Benjamin Grimm]

metirish wrote: If Tony LaRussa became available would you want him?

I get the impression that Tony LaRussa is smart just like Mike Francesa is smart. Which means he's only smart enough to convince gullible people that he's smarter than he is.

I'd pass on Tony.

[Guest sharpie]

]Valentine's team was turning around before he took over.

How? They were 59-72 when Bobby took over on the way to a 71-91 finish in a season where Lance Johnson, Bernard Gilkey and Todd Hundley all had career years. Bobby certainly developed Edgardo Alfonzo and Bobby Jones into good major league players, but the rest of the '96 Mets, other than John Franco and Rey Ordonez, were quickly turned over in the Bobby V era. I think he's a great manager for a developing team and there aren't many better x's and o's guys out there but I question his effectiveness on a veteran team, which, like it or not, the Mets are going to be next season.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nothing really. Just my impression.

Not that I'm arguing that Green would have taken them as far as Valentine. But neither am I sure that (1) this team is or will be too veteran for Valentine, or (2) he doesn't particularly succeed with veterans.

[Benjamin Grimm]

He's succeeded with veterans.

The 1999 team had Piazza, Ventura, Olerud, Henderson, Leiter, Reed, and Franco, just to list a few off the top of my head.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I always felt like after they got Piazza, it was all about managing the guys Phillips provided for him. I think Valentine might excel in a bygone era where field mansagers could also be general managers.

[Guest sharpie]

Granted there were veterans on the '99-'00 team, but these Mets have succeeded as a team without him, unlike those Mets. Not to say that he couldn't manage this team, I would just rather see new blood. Offa toppa my head I can't remember a successful second stint for a manager with any team.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, the reason I brought up Johnson and Valentine isn't because I think they should be the top choices, but because they're the only smart guys I know of who are available.

If it was my job to look for a new manager for a ballclub, I'm sure I'd become aware of a bunch of similarly qualified candidates.

I could rattle off some names of guys who've recently managed in the Mets farm system, like Oberkfell and Teufel and whoever. They may or may not be great candidates; I have no idea.

Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine are the types of candidates I'd like to see. It doesn't have to be the two of them specifically. In fact, I'd probably prefer somebody closer to his 45th birthday than to his 60th.

[Mex17]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I always felt like after they got Piazza, it was all about managing the guys Phillips provided for him. I think Valentine might excel in a bygone era where field mansagers could also be general managers.

Who says this needs to be "bygone". I am NOT rooting for Omar to be gone after 2008 but if he is, I would consider Valentine as the third candidate (along with Bernazard and Jocketty) to get the keys next.

[metirish]

Bernazard seems to be part of the problem right now, having the ear of all the latin players, hanging out in the clubhouse and pissing off the manager, at least that's what's been in the papers.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Not saying it couldn't happen but I don't think in today's world you want your field manager haggling with the agents and players he has to supervise everyday, and/or plotting to trade them away, etc. etc. That mighta worked better before the players all started out-earning the managers and had some say over the directions of their careers.

[G-Fafif]

Discussing the prospects for Randolph with a friend at the disheartening loss to the Cardinals last week (as opposed to all the other disheartening losses), he opined that Willie would never try Kevin Mitchell at short or bat Benny Agbayani leadoff.

On the train home that night, I passed an Old Navy just past the Jamaica station. It had two lights out, which allowed it to read:

O D AVY

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well Randolph did start Julio Franco at third, stick to his guns on making Wright hit his way up the lineup, keep Lo Duca in the two holes, and...

...you're looking for non-obvious moves that worked, right?

[metirish]

Is Davey Johnson still on the long finger as far as the Mets are concerned, is he even welcome at Shea?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Now you're just making up dialectical expressions.

[Frayed Knot]

G-Fafif wrote: Discussing the prospects for Randolph with a friend at the disheartening loss to the Cardinals last week, he opined that Willie would never try Kevin Mitchell at short or bat Benny Agbayani leadoff.

That's essentially my complaint about Willie also.
I don't think he's a bad manager - just not a very imaginitive one. Dreaming of that manager where you agree with every in-game call is like believing in that backup quarterback who'll never throws an interception, and cries of 'can't mismanae the bullpen' are usually code for: we need better pitchers out there. So fans who think those problems are going to be solved by replacing him are likely in for a rude awakening.
But I do find Willie less likely to 'think outside the box', as the saying goes, which perhaps makes him more predictable to manage against.

]Is Davey Johnson still on the long finger as far as the Mets are concerned

I wish you came with subtitles sometimes.

[metirish]

Sorry guys, from what I have read over the years Davey seems to be a part of Mets history that current management seems to be somewhat ashamed off(maybe that's the wrong word), he's there but lets keep him at arms length or on the long finger.


Anyway I know he was invited back last year but didn't accept or couldn't come, so maybe I am all wrong.

[Guest User 362]

Mex17 wrote: BULLPEN COACH: Billy Wagner exposed something. There needs to be some sort of better communication between the bullpen and Willie/Peterson. I think that Peterson is too valuable to replace (Wagner even said in his interview with New York magazine that he is great with mechanics). I think that there needs to be perhaps a player's advocate as bullpen coach, a guy who has done the job who can relate to the pitchers on their level and can effectively serve as a conduit between them and the manager/pitching coach. I think that it's time to bring John Franco out of exile.

What good is good mechanics if a pitcher can't get batters out.

[Vic Sage]

well, if we had good mechanics in the bullpen, maybe we would be able to get that little cart running again, and relievers could be driven in from the pen. That way, they wouldn't be tired before they even through their first pitch.

Don't underestimate the value of a good mechanic.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I really miss the old bullpen carts.



An old picture of the Mets bullpen cart.

[Valadius]

According to the Daily News, the Mets are waiting for Rudy Jaramillo's contract with Texas to expire at the end of the month before finalizing the coaching staff for next year.

[metirish]

Here's that bit, Henderson is out.

] DENVER - Mets brass won't finalize Willie Randolph's staff until Texas hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo's contact expires at the end of the month and he can be pursued. But the Mets' 2007 coaches are largely expected to return, with the exception of Rickey Henderson, who was viewed as an interim hire once Rick Down was fired at the All-Star break. Jaramillo was a finalist for the Mets' managerial job that went to Randolph. That would raise eyebrows considering the organization let Randolph squirm for 48 hours before confirming he'd return for a fourth season as skipper. But those who know Jaramillo believe he's content as a hitting coach and doesn't have managerial ambitions now. Jaramillo is taking his hitting-coach responsibilities with Texas seriously, too. With his contract not set to expire until Oct. 31, Jaramillo just flew to Arizona to work with Rangers minor leaguers. If Jaramillo, the Rangers' hitting coach for 13 seasons, did join the Mets, Howard Johnson - who was named hitting coach when Down was axed - would figure to return as first base coach. Jaramillo has a long-standing relationship with Mets GM Omar Minaya. When Jaramillo managed in the Single-A Gulf Coast League in 1985 and '86, Minaya was a coach on his staff.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It kind of burns me that they'd go through tthe second half of 2007 with a coach on staff they don't really take seriously.

[metirish]

Yeah good point edgy, and after all the raving about Henderson Omar used to do before he hired him.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Not for nothing, but with only a tiny window of perspective seems like "twisting in the wind for 48 hours" and retaining your job seems a very small price to pay for such a monumental collapse, especially when compared to what's happening to other manager in town.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'll buy that.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Covering the presidency and covering the pope is a deathwatch. Yeah, they decipher official pronouncements and report on them, but they don't get to sniff around for any dramatic breaking stories except health crises.

Similarly, the real story when covering a manager --- even when it isn't --- is where he is relative to the axe.

[Valadius]

The Mets are sticking with HoJo as hitting coach, and are only going to replace Rickey on the coaching staff.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/10/24/2007-10-24_mets_set_to_pass_on_rangers_rudy_jaramil-1.html

[Guest Edgy DC]

]"It wouldn't be fair to HoJo, who did an outstanding job as hitting coach. If you look at the numbers, everything in the second half of the year we were up in."

Talk to Reyes.

[metirish]

Here is the Davidoff article that Edgy mentioned in another thread.

Rudy Jaramillo


So Minaya wouldn't hire a coach that could potentially make the team better because he didn't want to upset Randolph?, doesn't make sense to me.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think it makes sense, but I don't agree with it.