I've never known baseball

[Guest Edgy DC]

...without Bruce Froemming. Him retiring, to me, is like Wrigley Field retiring.

[Frayed Knot]

I don't want to say he's been around a while, but in Julio Franco's 6th MLB game Froemming was working behind the plate for the 413th time!

[Valadius]

Bruce Froemming should go into the Hall of Fame, no? The Veterans' Committee has been awful at electing non-players (or anybody, for that matter).

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yes, he should. No, they haven't.

[Benjamin Grimm]

How many non-players have been inducted in the last twenty years?

I can't think of many. (Earl Weaver. Leo Durocher.) But then again, I haven't been devoting a whole lot of brain cells to remembering Hall of Fame inductees.

[metirish]

I like him and certainly he'll be missed,Gary mentioned the other night that his name was pronounced Fremming when he first came into the league.

[Valadius]

Looked it up.

Besides the huge class of Negro Leagues inductees in 2006, they are:

Al Barlick - Umpire, 1989
Bill Veeck - Executive, 1991
Bill McGowan - Umpire, 1992
Leo Durocher - Manager, 1994
William Hulbert - Executive, 1995
Ned Hanlon - Manager, 1996
Earl Weaver - Manager, 1996
Tommy Lasorda - Manager, 1997
Lee MacPhail - Executive, 1998
Nestor Chylak - Umpire, 1999
Frank Selee - Manager, 1999
Sparky Anderson - Manager, 2000

So excluding the Negro Leagues induction, which was outside the Veterans' Committee, it's been nobody in 7 years. That's pretty sad, considering that I don't think we've gotten everybody that should be in there yet.

[Benjamin Grimm]

="metirish"]I like him and certainly he'll be missed,Gary mentioned the other night that his name was pronounced Fremming when he first came into the league.

That's how I still pronounce it.

How are the kids saying it these days? FRO-ming?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Thanks for the list, Valadius.

So, then, who are the recently retired managers, umpires, executives who should be considered?

I agree that Froemming should go in.

How about Tom Kelly?

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's not sad. Turning in a blank ballot comes at the expense of some hard work by mostly old people asked to do a hard task, upholding high standards in the face of tons of constiuencies with their own agenda.

[Frayed Knot]

They've recently re-jiggered the vets committee voting procedure so that the HoF players will now vote ONLY on players while the others: execs, umps, etc., will be dealt with by a special committee.
The players had previously expressed a reluctance about judging anything other than players, something that came to light when many blank ballots were submitted even though Marvin Miller was eligible. So it's possible that some more non-playing types will be honored in the near future now that those near-automatic blanks won't factor in.

[metirish]

="Yancy Street Gang"] ="metirish"]I like him and certainly he'll be missed,Gary mentioned the other night that his name was pronounced Fremming when he first came into the league. That's how I still pronounce it. How are the kids saying it these days? FRO-ming?

Yes with a Fro.

[Valadius]

They might not even be recently retired. There are plenty of people in the 19th century that have been overlooked. And what about more owners and executives? And there are still some managers that could go in that aren't recently retired, but retired for quite a while.

[Benjamin Grimm]

There are a lot of people who COULD go in, but at some point you have to declare that the 19th Century has been covered, barring some new discoveries.

I'm not prepared to say whether or not we've reached that point. I'm no expert on 19th Century baseball. (Though I'd like to be!) But you seem to be inclined to want a more crowded Hall, and I'm on the other side of the fence. I want to raise the bar as high as possible, despite the qualifications of whoever may have already made it in.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Valadius wrote: They might not even be recently retired. There are plenty of people in the 19th century that have been overlooked. And what about more owners and executives? And there are still some managers that could go in that aren't recently retired, but retired for quite a while.

Who? Bid McPhee? Al Spalding?

I think it's wrong to suggest that this era hasn't been covered. I think they should keep reviewing it unitl the end of time, but that doesn't meed that they somehow have failed by not adding new names. It's a closed era with a finite number of persons.

[Valadius]

Well, players-wise I think the 19th century isn't fully covered. I dunno about managers/executives.

But from a baseball executives/pioneers standpoint, let me throw out some names:

William Shea
Walter O'Malley
Charles Ebbets
Bing Devine
Gussie Busch
Charlie O. Finley
Bob Howsam
Joan Payson
Marvin Miller

[Benjamin Grimm]

I would venture to say that most of the 19th Century guys are dead at the present time.

[Guest Edgy DC]

So, among the plenty of people from the 19th century that have been overlooked, you decline to offer anybody?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Valadius wrote: Well, players-wise I think the 19th century isn't fully covered. I dunno about managers/executives. But from a baseball executives/pioneers standpoint, let me throw out some names: William Shea --no. Walter O'Malley --influential, but very very hated Charles Ebbets --not very important; like bill shea Bing Devine --decent gm, but it would really open the floodgates Gussie Busch --asswipe Charlie O. Finley --clown Bob Howsam --no Joan Payson --no Marvin Miller --yes

[DocTee]

I think Finley gets in. What about Steinbrenner?

[Valadius]

Ebbets invented the rain check and was the first to propose a player draft that favored bad teams. So I think he merits some kind of consideration.

[Benjamin Grimm]

DocTee wrote: I think Finley gets in. What about Steinbrenner?

I'm afraid so.

Ebbets invented the rain check?

That's nice, but it gets zero Cooperstown points.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Considered and rejected.

[Frayed Knot]

Any consideration of Steinbrenner has to start with the fact that he was twice banned from the sport for actions that were both unethical and illegal.

[metirish]

Not at all crazy about owners getting into the HoF especially for being the first to propose things like rain checks,how about the guy that proposed the first domed stadium,no need for rain checks then.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Oddly enough, proposed by Walter O'Malley --- to replace, oddly enough, Ebbets Field.

[metirish]

Edgy DC wrote: Oddly enough, proposed by Walter O'Malley --- to replace, oddly enough, Ebbets Field.

Ha ,didn't think of that when I was being a smart ass.

[Zvon]

Froemming will be missed.

Im watching a clip now from the 70's - he had some kool sideburns back then.

[Zvon]

On ESPN now, for me here, a thing on Froemming.

Says his first game called was in 1971 at Shea with Tom Seaver pitching.

How bout that?