1986/2006 Parallels

[Guest cooby]

I like a catcher who will play through pain

[stevejrogers]

cooby wrote: I like a catcher who will play through pain

And we had ourselves quite a few through the years. Guys like Stearns, Hundley, and Grote. I'm sure "Camera" Carter and Piazza probably surprised alot of folks who only pay attention to Mets/Yanks with their respective toughness through the years as well.

[metirish]

] Mark Herrmann: Can this year�s team usurp the �86 Mets? October 2, 2006 Things were looking up almost all season for the Mets, with the notable exception of Aug. 19, when everybody looked back. As an anniversary tribute, the 2006 Mets wore the 1986 Mets' uniforms, racing stripes and all. Now, though, you wonder if the current club will have any chance to fill the '86 Mets' shoes. Fate just didn't make the same kind of reprise as those old jerseys did. For a long while, it felt a lot like 1986. These Mets, like those Mets, got ahead early and kept pulling away. These Mets, like those Mets, drew large crowds and reinvigorated the franchise. These Mets, like those Mets, have a distinct personality, a clutch streak, a cluster of veterans, a nucleus of young stars and a blossoming manager who once was a good second baseman in the American League. Also, both the '86 and '06 Mets were firmly ensconced in the Julio Franco Era. But when it came to timing and fortune, the clubs were 20 light years apart. The '86 Mets had a knack for being healthy, good and lucky at the perfect time, right down to that ball dribbling through Bill Buckner's legs. For the '06 Mets, fate has become a four-letter word. Duaner Sanchez was injured in a taxi accident right before the trading deadline, prompting a panic deal that dispatched Xavier Nady, one of their rare solid righthanded hitters, and possibly costing them a shot at a big-time starter such as Roy Oswalt. They could really use that big-time starter now, what with Pedro Martinez being lost virtually on the eve of the postseason. If there is hope for these Mets, it comes from those Mets. They won the World Series in 1986 essentially without their ace. Dwight Gooden pitched, but wasn't really there (0-2, 8.00 ERA). Then again, those Mets had more up their sleeve mound-wise. "Young starting pitching versus old starting pitching," said Ron Darling, a member of the '86 team and broadcaster for the '06 team. "We had four guys with over 30 starts that year. They don't have one guy. [Actually, Tom Glavine has 32 and Steve Trachsel has 30.] We had four guys with over 200 innings. They won't have one. "I'm not saying the young ones are better. The older guys have had awesome careers. So I don't know, but that was the big difference." But you wonder if Darling, Gooden, Bob Ojeda and Sid Fernandez could have stifled this '06 Mets lineup. Or you wonder if the '86 Mets would seem more potent if they could tee off against Trachsel and John Maine. You wonder who would do what if they matched up in a computer game of Strat-O-Matic. "I think it would be a very close series. I'd probably favor the '86 team because of the starting pitching," said Steve Barkan, the statistics guru of the Glen Head-based game company, who is working on the 2006 ratings now. Some calls are easy. Jose Reyes is hands down over Rafael Santana. Darryl Strawberry is a shoo-in over Shawn Green. Lenny Dykstra was good, Carlos Beltran is better. The Kevin Mitchell/Mookie Wilson combo was more productive than Cliff Floyd has been this year. Other choices make you scratch your head. Jose Valentin had the home runs, but Wally Backman hit .320. Ray Knight and Howard Johnson together don't add up to one All-Star, do they? Keith Hernandez was likely the best-fielding first baseman of his era (a "1" in Strat-O-Matic, of which he is a devotee) and a born leader, but Carlos Delgado has 38 home runs. Paul Lo Duca hit better than .300 and handled a shaky rotation, but Gary Carter (despite his .255 average in '86) is a Hall of Famer. "Their bullpen is exponentially better than our bullpen was," Darling said. "Our bullpen was Roger and Jesse and that's it. If Willie were managing our team, who would he go to in case something happened early in the game?" The point is, baseball and the world have changed a lot since the day when Davey Johnson used a three-man rotation and had Fernandez as a stellar reliever. Comparisons are not only hard, they are premature. The lesson of 1986 is that the year really doesn't start until October. Let's face it, the 1988 Mets were outstanding too,. They had added David Cone, Kevin McReynolds and Gregg Jefferies. Yet nobody waxes nostalgic about that crew because it flopped against the Dodgers. If the best of this Mets season has happened already, we won't remember it very well 20 years from now. These Mets have to hope that fate makes a big comeback and helps them earn their stripes.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

]Can this year�s team usurp the �86 Mets?

No.

Not for me, anyway. No team will ever usurp the 1986 Mets.

[Guest cooby]

ANd even 1986 can't usurp 1973 for me


(usurp? Who says that?)

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm looking for them to usurp the 2005 White Sox.

[G-Fafif]

In 1986, the Mets started the year by defeating the eventual last-place Pirates. They ended the regular season that way, too.

In 2006, the Mets started the year by defeating the eventual last-place Nationals. They ended the regular season that way, too.

[soupcan]

Here's a weak one -

1986 Mets ended the regular season on a multi-game win streak (5)

2006 Mets ended the regular season on a multi-game win streak (4)

[HahnSolo]

Both teams fell behind 1-0 in the second inning of their first postseason game.

[soupcan]

How about both of these offensive jauggernauts (bitch!) starting really slowly in their first postseason series.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Both are jury-rigging at a corner outfield spot.

[MFS62]

Edgy DC wrote: Both are jury-rigging at a corner outfield spot.

I believe the term now in vogue is "situational substitution".

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

The 1986 Mets went through the Red Sox. The 2006 Mets are trying to go through the ex-Red Sox.

[Valadius]

The 1986 Mets faced a bunch of ex-Mets. The 2006 Mets are also facing a bunch of ex-Mets.

[stevejrogers]

The 1986 Mets went further than the 1986 Yankees
The 2006 Mets will go further than the 2006 Yankees!

[stevejrogers]

Tim McCarver called the 1986 NLCS
Tim McCarver (most likely the "A" team will do the New York series) will call the 2006 NLCS!

1996 71-91 4th

[stevejrogers]

Not 100% sure, but IIRC all Met postseason radio broadcasts, on both local and national feeds could be heard on both 1050 (1986 Local, 2006 National and 660 (1986 National, 2006 Local) on your AM dial.

[stevejrogers]

Mets Extra made its debut on the Mets Radio Network as the Pre and Post game program that 1986 postseason

Mets Extra, while undergoing a couple of format changes, still is the Pre and Post game program on the Mets Radio Network

[stevejrogers]

1986 After winning the first series in the postseaon the Mets had to wait to find out who they played next

2006 After winning the first series in the postseaon the Mets had to wait to find out who they played next!

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

1986: Nine guys in starting lineup for every game of the season.

2006: Nine guys in starting lineup for every game of the season.

[Guest Edgy DC]

As irish would say, piss is being taken.

[Gwreck]

Ehhh...those interleague games had 10 starters...

[metirish]

Rivalry is rich in memories

[MFS62]

That Pendleton home run is one of my worst memories.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

It was 1986 when MLB first got around to doing the DH at the AL ballparks and letting the pitchers bat in the NL ballparks.

In game three, the first real game ever with a Met DH, they used three, with Danny Heep starting, being pinch-hit for by Kevin Mitchell in the eighth, then Mitchell was replaced by Lee Mazzilli after the Red Sox replaced Bob Stanley with Joe Sambito.

[soupcan]

Wait - I thought if you pinch hit for your DH then you lose the DH.

Not true?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nope. When you move the DH into a fielding position, you lose the DH.

[soupcan]

Thanks. You learn something new everyday.

Lotsa rules associated with that DH thang.

6.10
Any League may elect to use the Designated Hitter Rule.
(a) In the event of inter-league competition between clubs of Leagues using the Designated Hitter Rule and clubs of Leagues not using the Designated Hitter Rule, the rule will be used as follows:
1. In World Series or exhibition games, the rule will be used or not used as is the practice of the home team.
2. In All-Star games, the rule will only be used if both teams and both Leagues so agree.
( The Rule provides as follows:
A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and allsubsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be includedin the lineup cards presented to the Umpire in Chief.
The designated hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers.
It is not mandatory that a club designate a hitter for the pitcher, but failure to do so prior to the game precludes the use of a Designated Hitter for that game.
Pinch hitters for a Designated Hitter may be used. Any substitute hitter for a Designated Hitter becomes the Designated Hitter. A replaced Designated Hitter shall not re-enter the game in any capacity.
The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player, unless more than one substitution is made, and the manager then must designate their spots in the batting order.
A runner may be substituted for the Designated Hitter and the runner assumes the role of Designated Hitter. A Designated Hitter may not pinch run.
A Designated Hitter is �locked� into the batting order. No multiple substitutions may be made that will alter the batting rotation of the Designated Hitter.
Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once a pinch hitter bats for any player in the batting order and then enters the game to pitch, this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once the game pitcher bats for the Designated Hitter this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. (The game pitcher may only pinch-hit for the Designated Hitter.)
Once a Designated Hitter assumes a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. A substitute for the Designated Hitter need not be announced until it is the Designated Hitter�s turn to bat.

[Valadius]

All four teams left last won the World Series in the 80's.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Valadius wrote: All four teams left last won the World Series in the 80's.

Yup, see Drought Watch II, probably already on page 4 by now.