Wild-speculation/brain storm number to be retired on 8/19

[stevejrogers]

Just noticed that #17 has not been issued as of yet this season, last to have it was Dae Sung Koo last year... I know Mex made some comments, but I assume they were in jest as he has been working with the Mets off-and-on for a while now and seen a bunch of players suit up in his #17

And #8 has been kept out of circulation since Desi Relaford in 2001

#8 actually is listed for roving Catching Instructor Gary Carter but that generally never has stopped big clubs from doubling up for instructors and special Spring Training Instructors

Hmmmm. Big Anniversary tribute on August 19th...

Hmmmm...

Like I said, this is just idle speculation on my part

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Lima wore it this year.

[Guest KC]

Steve, I'm growing to love you - but we ain't there yet. You title a thread
about wild speculation and end it that it's idle.

>>>Wild-speculation/brain storm
this is just idle speculation<<<

[Guest cooby]

-8- I wondered when they'd finally get around to retiring Carlos's number

[stevejrogers]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Lima wore it this year.

Right! I tried to block Lima's apperances this year out of my mind...

[soupcan]

17 I don't think so, but maybe you've hit on something with 8.

Carter's in the HOF now so its definitly plausible.

That'd be cool.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

They're not going to be able to do 8 without also doing 17, so I think they'd either do both or neither.

I think Hernandez has the stronger case for retirement, HOF notwithstanding, but as often argued here I wish they wouldn't and instead issue his number more carefully in the future.

They each ought to be in the Mets HoF, in the event they aren';t. I really have no idea

[stevejrogers]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: They're not going to be able to do 8 without also doing 17, so I think they'd either do both or neither. I think Hernandez has the stronger case for retirement, HOF notwithstanding, but as often argued here I wish they wouldn't and instead issue his number more carefully in the future. They each ought to be in the Mets HoF, in the event they aren';t. I really have no idea

They've both are long since in the Mets HoF

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Well there ya go. They've been honored. To honor them more, make the Met HoF a bigger deal. But don;t go around taking numbers out of circulation. It's stupid.

[Guest sharpie]

I agree with Johnny. It's such a MFY thing to do.

[RealityChuck]

I don't mind retiring numbers, but I think you need to do it judiciously. I'd rather consider retiring numbers that get associated with a player who's with the team longer than Hernandez and Carter. Number 5, maybe (eventually), for instance.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ya Gotta Retire
Duffy Dyer!

Why Don'tcha Enshrine
Ellis Valentine?!

[soupcan]

I don't have anything against retiring numbers if its deserved. The Yankees of course have gotten ridiculous with it. When I saw Kevin Maas had a plaque out there I realized that.

I read that there are definitive requirements that must be met for the Red Sox to retire a number. Among them is that player must be in the Hall of Fame - not the Red Sox HoF, the real National Baseball Hall of Fame.

The player also had to have played with the Sox for a certain number of years as well.

I like that idea.

[metirish]

You're joking about Kevin Mass,right?, he played 4 seasons and a total of 384 games for them....how could they retire his number?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/maaske01.shtml

[soupcan]

Well, I never actually seen it, but I'm sure he's got one out there. Doesn't everyone who ever played for them get one?

[stevejrogers]

metirish wrote: You're joking about Kevin Mass,right?, he played 4 seasons and a total of 384 games for them....how could they retire his number? http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/maaske01.shtml

Yup. He was. Roger Maris, Thurman Munson, Billy Martin, Allie Reynolds, Ron Guidry and Elston Howard are the non-HOF players members in Monument Park. Jacob Ruppert, Bob Sheppard, two plaques commemorating Papal vists and a 9/11 memorial monument are the others representing non-HOFers

Case COULD be made for Maris, Munson and especially Martin though being in Cooperstown

Note, Ed Barrow is in Monument Park, not George M. Weiss who is in the Mets HOF (Barrow is the only GM the Yanks found it neccessary to honor, no doubt George will join Ruppert as owners in there some day)

[Elster88]

metirish wrote: You're joking about Kevin Mass,right?, he played 4 seasons and a total of 384 games for them....how could they retire his number? http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/maaske01.shtml

They didn't retire his number, they just gave him a plaque.

[metirish]

] They didn't retire his number, they just gave him a plaque.

Ahh thanks for the info,still giving him a plaque seems silly.

[Elster88]

Yup.

[Guest ABG]

8/19 is likely to be a sellout. Whatever day they retire Carter's number is likely to be a sellout.

Thus, they will be two days, not one.

[Frayed Knot]

I've mentioned on more than a few occasions on these and other airwaves that, while I'm not totally against retiring numbers, I'd err on the side of retiring fewer numbers rather than too many.
In this case I'd be against mothballing both #17 & #8.

I'd consider #31 (about a decade or so from now) as at least Piazza will satisfy two criteria which should be strongly considered in every case:
1) HoF member
2) majority of career as a Met

Having both isn't an absolute requirement ... but it would certainly help.
Carter gts #1 but isn't even close to #2. Mex doesn't cover either.
Piazza will likely have both (may fall a wee bit short on 2 if he plays a few more years) - although it wouldn't kill me if they kept that one in circulation too.

And, btw, it should have NOTHING to do with what "he goes into the HoF as" -- something I consider to be one of the dumber arguments of recent years. He's a NYM (and Dodgeer) HoFer no matter what insignia is on his hat/plaque. I'm spending absolutely zero energy on worrying about that eternal question even though it's twisting some Met fans into knots (maybe even frayed knots?) for years already.

[soupcan]

ABG wrote: 8/19 is likely to be a sellout. Whatever day they retire Carter's number is likely to be a sellout. Thus, they will be two days, not one.

Good point.

[Elster88]

I look at it from a personal level, too. Piazza had a huge impact on my baseball fandom....and will never be replaced. Being in the crowd for his last game as a Met and first coming back on another team showed me that a helluva a lot of peeps feel the same way.

The "never be replaced" includes if the Mets run a guy through their farm system who is the best position player ever to wear a Met jersey, who says all the right things, who challenges for an MVP in his second year, and plays his entire career as a Met.....probably because even though Mike didn't do those things, his Met career was right in that period of my life where sports mattered the most. And he brought me out of the hell that was "being a Met fan in the mid-nineties".

So for me, retire the number. If no one else wears it in Queens I'll be just fine.

[Vic Sage]

Mike Piazza was drafted by the Dodgers, as a result of his personal ties to Dodger icon Tommy Lasorda;
he played in the Dodgers minor-league system for 4 years;
he came up and was a Dodger ROY;
he had his best seasons as a Dodger;
he was an all-star MVP as a dodger; and
he played for the Dodgers for parts of 7 seasons, including 2 post-seasons.

While I enjoyed him as a player for the Mets, and i know he had an impact on the franchise, i still don't think a few hundred more ABs as a Met changes the fact that he's a Dodger HOFer.

Maybe if we'd won the WS in 2000, that could've tipped the scales. But we didn't, and so it doesn't.

We should not be retiring the number of yet ANOTHER Dodger great (including Gil Hodges and Jackie Robinson).

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

My speculation isn't that a number will be retired but, rather, a member of the 1986 Mets will be placed in the Mets HOF. Perhaps Davey Johnson.

[stevejrogers]

Vic Sage wrote: Mike Piazza was drafted by the Dodgers, as a result of his personal ties to Dodger icon Tommy Lasorda; he played in the Dodgers minor-league system for 4 years; he came up and was a Dodger ROY; he had his best seasons as a Dodger; he was an all-star MVP as a dodger; and he played for the Dodgers for parts of 7 seasons, including 2 post-seasons. While I enjoyed him as a player for the Mets, and i know he had an impact on the franchise, i still don't think a few hundred more ABs as a Met changes the fact that he's a Dodger HOFer. Maybe if we'd won the WS in 2000, that could've tipped the scales. But we didn't, and so it doesn't. We should not be retiring the number of yet ANOTHER Dodger great (including Gil Hodges and Jackie Robinson).

Excellent points!

I love this agrument you can make about not retiring #8 and Carter not being a Met in Cooperstown:

Gary Carter spent more time as an Expo than Tom Seaver did as a Met
Tom Seaver spent more time as a Red than Gary Carter did as a Met

Note, the Expos retired #8 for Carter, and Seaver was voted (by fans and media combo I believe) into the Reds HOF, the opposite of course is true for Seaver and Carter, #41 retired and Carter is in the Mets HOF

I agree, I can see putting Piazza in the Mets HOF, but retiring 31 probably would be a bit much. Sure it did turn around the franchise, but I'm sure if you polled baseball fans across the country more neutral (neither Dodger or Met fan) would probably associate Piazza as a Dodger than as a Met. Like more fans associate Carter as an Expo or Seaver as a Met.

Retiring 8 and/or 31 does seem like something that would open floodgates that shouldn't be opened.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I wouldn't retire Piazza's number. He was with the Mets for eight years, and for the last four of them he was in decline.

So four great years, and two playoff appearances? Not enough to get his number on the wall.

And not Hernandez and Carter either. Carter was only with the Mets for five seasons, and the last two were subpar.

Keith helped put the Mets back on the map more than Piazza did, but I still think he falls short.

Let's talk about Wright and Reyes fifteen years from now. Until then, there are no numbers that need to be retired.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The discussion should really be centered around the Mets Hall of Fame, which has been gathering way too much dust, and which has room that is far less finite than the retired number list.

[Guest ABG]

Retire his number. Stop being killjoys. No one cares about a team's hall of fame.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I don't think he deserves it.

You're right that few people care about the team's Hall of Fame. Maybe they can address that, though. Have an actual Hall of Fame display in the new ballpark that fans can get to. (The one at Shea is inaccessible and nobody knows where it is.)

Make it prominent and people will care.