Trade Tracker: Kris Benson for Jorge Julio and John Maine

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Where they stand through play of 5/7/06.

What the Mets gave up:

Kris Benson

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
7	4 � 3	42.1	43	20	17	1.42	4.89

What the Mets received:
Jorge Julio

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
14	1 � 1	16.1	18	29	7	1.53	6.06

John Maine*

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
1	0 � 1	5.1	6	6	2	1.50	6.75

*Currently on disabled list

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

How the trade stands through play of 5/19/06.

What the Mets gave up:

Kris Benson

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
9	6 � 3	58.1	52	28	20	1.23	3.86

What the Mets received:
Jorge Julio

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
16	1 � 1	18.1	20	30	8	1.53	5.40

John Maine

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
1	0 � 1	5.1	6	6	2	1.50	6.75

[Guest cooby]

Is that 2 eight inning outings, Rockin Doc?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Big bounce for El Duque.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I forgot about this thread. How should I show the results of the trade now? Do I post Benson's stats against those for Maine and El Duque since his becoming a Met. Do I leave the stats for Julio and signify that he is now gone or do I disregard his stats as if they never happened?

[Guest Edgy DC]

You can do a couple of things.

1) Continue to judge this as Benson-for-Julio-and-Maine. You add, in your own way, Julio's continuing stats with Arizona to Maine's with the Mets, and compare or contrast that with Benson's. This perspective suggests that what we're trying to judge is the quality of the Mets judgment at the time, and Julio's performance from here forward --- no matter what uniform he's wearing --- is a big part of what validates or invalidiates this trade.

2) Judge the transaction more broadly, counting Julio's stats with the Mets up until the time he got traded, then begin adding in Duque's stats. This perspective suggests that part of what we acquired in Julio was his value in a flip in light of the redundancy in the pen.

3) I forget what this is. But maybe you can do both if you're up for it. You certainly can't serve the issue if you ignore Julio's stats with the Mets thus far.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Where the trade stands through 6/11/06:

What the Mets Traded Away:

Kris Benson

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
13	6 �5	77.2	77	38	28	1.35	4.40

What the Mets Traded For:
Jorge Julio*

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
25	1 � 2	28.1	25	39	12	1.24	4.13

*Combined seasonal stats (Mets 18 games & Dbacks 7 games)

John Maine

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
1	0 � 1	5.1	6	6	2	1.50	6.75

What the Mets Ultimately Received:
Jorge Julio

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
18	1 � 2	21.1	23	33	10	1.45	5.06

O. Hernandez

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
3	2-1	20	16	15	8	1.20	4.05

John Maine

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
1	0 � 1	5.1	6	6	2	1.50	6.75

[Willets Point]

Bump.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Where the trade stands through 7/13/06:

What the Mets Traded Away:

Kris Benson

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
19	9 �6	109.1	110	55	39	1.40	4.79

What the Mets Traded For:
Jorge Julio*

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
38	1 � 3	41.2	30	54	18	1.15	3.46

*Combined seasonal stats (Mets 18 games & Dbacks 20 games)

John Maine

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
3	0 � 3	16	15	16	5	1.25	5.06

What the Mets Ultimately Received:
Jorge Julio#

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
18	1 � 2	21.1	23	33	10	1.45	5.06

O. Hernandez#

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
8	3-4	45.2	43	37	14	1.25	4.14

John Maine

Games	Record	Innings	Hits	Strike outs	Walks	WHIP	ERA
3	0 � 3	16	15	16	5	1.25	5.06

#Mets stats only


Edited for having originally given Benson credit for one too many wins.

[Guest Edgy DC]

So, adding up the three tenures that the Mets got for Benson, the Orioles probably have a modest lead in this one. But accounting for salary considerations and future considerations, they have a good chance to come out on top of this one.

Player	W	L	ERA	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	SVO	IP	H	R	ER	HR	HbP	BB	SO
Hernandez	3	4	4.14	8	8	1	0	0	0	45.2	43	21	21	6	3	14	37
Maine	0	3	5.06	3	3	0	0	0	0	16.0	15	10	9	4	0	5	16
Julio	1	2	5.06	18	0	0	0	1	1	21.1	21	15	12	4	1	10	33
Totals	4	9	4.55	29	11	1	0	1	1	83.0	79	46	42	14	4	29	86

Two other things to consider:

• El Duque has now pitched exactly the same number of innings for New York as for Arizona --- 45 2/3 --- with an ERA almost two full runs lower (1.97) for the Mets. Even accounting for park factors, that reflects well on the Flushing Locals.
• Can you imagine, with the Mets 12 games in front, how annoyingly ubiquitous Anna Benson would be by now?

[Elster88]

Yes.

I can also imagine how nice it would be to have a healthy legit #3 starter in the rotation.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't see him as distinctly trumping Steve Trachsel of Orlando Hernandez these days.

[Elster88]

If you believe thumbs and their rules, his ERA would be in the high 3s in the NL.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think the park effect is that pronounced.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I don't think it's the park effect, but the difference between pitching against pitchers as opposed to pitching against DH's.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

As for Edgy's other point, I agree that from here on in, it's no sure thing that Benson will or won't be better than Hernandez. So the Mets may not have overly hurt themselves (at least for 2006) by this trade.

I still would have preferred that it had not been made.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]I don't think it's the park effect, but the difference between pitching against pitchers as opposed to pitching against DH's.

Yeah, but I don't think the overall league/park effect is that pronounced either. He's probably better, but look what El Duque has done of late:

June 8: 9 IP, 1 ER (@ARI)
June 14: 3 IP, 2 ER. Pulled after rain delay. (@PHI)
June 19: 7 IP, 2 ER (CIN)
June 24: 1.2 IP, 6 ER (@TOR)
June 30: 7 IP, 2 ER (@NYY)
Jul 5: 7 IP, 0 ER (PIT)

That's some solid number three pitching!

[Elster88]

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think the park effect is that pronounced.

I was going for the league effect.

Edit: Oops, beat me to it.

[metirish]

Two reports I read this morning have the Mets interested in Benson, from Klapisch....

] Kris Benson, Orioles: Would you believe the Mets had three scouts watching their former right-hander perform brilliantly in a 2-1 loss to the Rangers on Friday? That's how desperate the market is for pitching -- the Mets, who know what a heartbreaker Benson can be, are once again interested. Sort of like putting stale milk in the fridge and hoping it comes out fresh in the morning. The Mets aren't the only ones who've checked out Benson. The Yanks were there, and the entire Rangers' roster had a firsthand look at the talented, but underachieving Benson. The O's are saying Benson isn't going anywhere, but that sentiment could change before July 31. ]

Yancy Street Gang Jul 17 2006 11:34 AM

The Mets getting the Bensons back would be pretty darn funny.

Elster88 Jul 17 2006 12:15 PM

]Sort of like putting stale milk in the fridge and hoping it comes out fresh in the morning. I'd say it's more like making a dumbass trade because you didn't realize that pitchers sometimes get hurt and wishing you could undo it.

Edgy DC Jul 17 2006 12:29 PM

I don'tthink the trade indicated that the Mets didn't realize that pitchers sometimes get hurt. They traded one pitcher for two pitchers, both younger.

Elster88 Jul 17 2006 12:33 PM

I don't want to get into it again.

Edgy DC Jul 26 2006 01:52 PM

This is really starting to get interesting.

Elster88 Jul 26 2006 01:54 PM

Omar had no idea Maine was going to be good. He was just a throw-in. Or.....Maine's only had two good starts so far. Or some other pathetic attempt to save my dignity. Actually I am a defender of all things Maine, but I'll admit it was only AFTER I saw him pitch.

Edgy DC Jul 26 2006 02:03 PM

Don't forget "Yeah, but it's the Cubs."

Frayed Knot Jul 26 2006 02:20 PM

Maine was a reasonably regarded prospect in the Bal'mer system. Now granted he wasn't a Sure-fire / Can't-Miss / #1 with a Bullet type, but it's not like any and all success needs to be viewed with a 'when's it gonna turn back into a pumpkin' suspicion. For all the years Met fans have been saying that we should be trading our middling, yet aging & more expensive parts for other team's younger/cheaper/higher-upside pieces, that's exactly what they did with the Cameron & Benson deals.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 26 2006 02:30 PM

Yup. And after months of being the other which way, the Cameron-Nady deal today looks like the worse of the two. Mike Cameron Makes All the Difference

Nymr83 Jul 27 2006 12:15 AM

i still think the camerom deal doesnt look good, but boy has omar outsmarted me on the seo deal and done decently on the benson deal as well.

TheOldMole Jul 27 2006 07:44 AM

You can't really knock Nady.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 27 2006 09:47 AM

I wouldn't Knock Knady. I like him and think he's done a pretty good job considering the medical calamities and all. He's also younger, cheaper, etc. and oughta wind up with 20-some dingers. I'm even willing to swallow the idea that Cameron needed to be moved for what they could get for him lest we'd have been "stuck," couldn't afford Delgado, whatever. That the mets doubled-up his skill set with Beltran wasn't the best situation for cameron either. But have ya looked at what the guy's been doing lately? Quite simply, Cameron's a great player and it's to everyone's shame that they didn't make a better offer when he was available.

Frayed Knot Jul 27 2006 10:14 AM

In a sport where all hitters are streaky Cameron streakiness stands out and he's in one of his "UP" rolls right now. But this trade was a future move also. Cameron wanted to get back to CF and, while he was a good soldier moving to RF, he'd be gone after this year and we'd be searching for a new corner OFer again instead of at least having Nady as an option. The question will always remain about whether Omar pulled the trigger too quickly on the deal w/o trying to drive the price up, but at worst it's a wash right now.

TransMonk Jul 27 2006 11:26 AM

Benson sent to O's doctor

Rockin' Doc Aug 07 2006 11:13 PM

Where the trade stands through 8/6/06: What the Mets Traded Away: Kris Benson Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 22 9 �9 133.2 140 62 46 1.39 4.71 Benson is currently on the 15 day DL. What the Mets Traded For: Jorge Julio* Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 47 1 � 4 50 42 67 24 1.32 4.14 *Combined seasonal stats (Mets 18 games & Dbacks 29 games) John Maine Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 7 2 � 3 39 26 31 13 1.00 2.08 What the Mets Ultimately Received: Jorge Julio# Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 18 1 � 2 21.1 23 33 10 1.45 5.06 O. Hernandez# Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 12 5-4 68.1 64 61 21 1.24 4.21 John Maine Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 7 2 � 3 39 26 31 13 1.00 2.08 #Mets stats only

TransMonk Aug 08 2006 01:40 AM

The way Maine is pitching, this deal looks more like a steal every day: Kris Benson stats: 22 G, 9 W, 9 L, 133.2 IP, 140 H, 62 K, 46 BB, 1.39 WHIP, 4.71 ERA Julio, Hernandez, Maine total combined Mets stats: 37 G, 8 W, 9 L, 128.2 IP, 113 H, 125 K, 44 BB, 1.22 WHIP, 3.71 ERA So far in 5 less IP, the Mets have double the Ks and saved a full run in ERA.

Nymr83 Aug 08 2006 02:07 AM

and yet i still feel far more confident in Benson to start game 3 than Hernandez or Maine. it should also be pointed out that Benson is pitching in the AL and in Camden Yards. I'd undo this trade in a second.

Edgy DC Aug 08 2006 08:19 AM

I'll take hard data over feelings at this point. There's also money saved here.

Nymr83 Aug 08 2006 08:14 PM

that hard data doesn't account for the difference in leagues, which are looking particularly unequal this year. a guy with a 4.7 in the AL is having almost as good a yeart as a guy with a 3.7 in the NL (the 3 pitchers combined). also, Maine alone has 39 innings....talk to me when he has the 133 Bnson has thrown. Henandez for the year (if you dont cherrypick his Mets stats) has a 4.97 ERA, hugher than Benson's and thats in the NL. so while the mets have gotten more quality out of the 3 guy combined, neither of those starters is more trustworthy than benson right now.

TransMonk Aug 08 2006 09:42 PM

Hard data accounting for the difference in leagues: Total for all AL pitchers in 2006: 13847 IP, 7062 ER, 4.59 ERA Total for all NL pitchers in 2006: 15874.2 IP, 8030 ER, 4.55 ERA Total for AL starters in 2006: 9129.1 IP, 4856 ER, 4.79 ERA Total for NL starters in 2006: 10406 IP, 5457 ER, 4.72 ERA Not sure where the inequality is. As for how trustworthy Benson is...I wouldn't feel any more secure in our postseason capabilities if he were our 3rd man in the rotation.

Edgy DC Aug 08 2006 10:30 PM

That's plenty of data for right now. And, yeah, park factors still won't make up the difference. As for how trustworthy Benson is right now, right now he's on the disabled list and no good to anybody. And counting Hernandez's stats with the Mets is not "cherrypicking" his stats. That's all that counts.

Nymr83 Aug 08 2006 11:47 PM

it isnt all that counts. the mets have locked up a playoff spot, what hernandez does for the mets right now doesnt matter and is no better indicator of what he'll do in the postseason than what he did for the d-backs. and since you're cherrypicking i'll do it too... Benson has a 3.83 ERA in his 101 night game innings, it is only in day games that he gets hit hard. guess when most playoff games are played. he has a 4.29 since the all-star break, compared to hernandez's 4.39, both in 4 games i'd still undo this trade in a second.

Edgy DC Aug 09 2006 09:27 AM

]It isnt all that counts. the mets have locked up a playoff spot, what hernandez does for the mets right now doesnt matter and is no better indicator of what he'll do in the postseason than what he did for the d-backs. That's absurd. It's also not what we're measuring. ]and since you're cherrypicking i'll do it too... You can keep saying that, it's still untrue. ]Benson has a 3.83 ERA in his 101 night game innings, it is only in day games that he gets hit hard. guess when most playoff games are played. he has a 4.29 since the all-star break, compared to hernandez's 4.39, both in 4 games What's his ERA when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligned with Mars? ]i'd still undo this trade in a second. Well, you can't. Because, despite your best intentions, you're not allowed to trade for a guy on the disable list.

Nymr83 Aug 09 2006 10:25 PM

edit- nevermind.

Edgy DC Aug 10 2006 12:05 AM

Well, it's not really fair of me to say "absurd" and not support it. But if it was the opposite, if Orlando Hernandez had done more or less OK for nine starts for Arizona, and then pitched rather poorly for 12 starts here, and I went on to claim that it doesn't matter, because those nine starts at the beginning of the year for another team were just as indicative of what to expect in October, wouldn't you hasten to disagree with me? I hope so, because it would be a really difficult position to support.

Nymr83 Aug 10 2006 01:18 AM

i just dont think theres any reason to look at his numbers for the mets without taking his other numbers into account. Peterson didn't "fix him in 10 minutes" he is still the same pitcher that stunk up the joint for arizona, he's had some better luck of late but he is still the same guy. as for john maine i really hope he is half as good as he has looked, but until he has more innings under his belt i have to wait and see. if you'd like to ressurect the "bets thread" i'll bet that Benson has a better ERA+ in the 2nd half than Hernandez (assuming we can find ERA+ for half a season?)

Edgy DC Aug 10 2006 08:11 AM

Sure, you take it all into account. You just logically weigh some factors more heavily than others. The Peterson fix-in-ten-minutes is really silly to keep repeating at this point. Do we know he's better on the Mets because he's on the Mets? No. But it becomes a safer assumption the longer his improved performance holds out. And it's now longer than his nine-start run with Arizona. I don't know what you base your contention of luck on. He's had a lot more success than failure in his career. His performance is what it is I'm not interested in betting on what happens from this point forward. I've made no claims as to what will happen. What this thread hopes to do is measure what has happened as it continues to happen. It's also reframing the issue. We're not measuring Benson vs. Hernandez. We're measuring Benson vs. Hernandez + Maine + Whatever We Got from Julio.

Edgy DC Aug 25 2006 02:35 PM

The Minnesota Twins gave Kris Benson a wedgie and stuffed him in his locker last night. 3.2 innings, 10 hits, 6 earnies, 0 walks, 0 whiffs, 1 homerun.

ScarletKnight41 Aug 25 2006 02:38 PM

Anna's probably not as vocal today as she was when Kris was pitching well.

Yancy Street Gang Aug 25 2006 02:55 PM

Hey, zero walks ain't bad!

Willets Point Oct 03 2006 06:10 PM

End of season update?

Rockin' Doc Oct 03 2006 10:53 PM

I'll get the final numbers up soon. Internet and cellular services throughout most of eastern North Carolina were out for most of yesterday. Too busy to check in today until this evening. So I'm just getting caught up with the forum again after 2 days.

Valadius Oct 19 2006 12:18 AM

Bump. Damn right this paid off.

Zvon Oct 19 2006 12:22 AM

CRACK! SKREETCH! MEEEEEOW! "Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead!" (...................thread)

Rockin' Doc Oct 19 2006 12:22 AM

This deal is still paying dividends. I promise to update this thread once all the final stats are in. Too busy enjoying the Mets play off run at present.

MFS62 Oct 19 2006 09:40 AM

The year before the Mets got him, John Maine was the sixth best prospect in the Orioles' organization. They brought him up that year and he faltered. As a result, he slipped down several spots on their prospect list. If he was their sixth best, I'd sure like to know the names of the players who were ranked higher. I should know them, because they must be household names by now. Later

metsmarathon Oct 19 2006 09:50 AM

maine looks, and has for the entire season, like he has some pretty good upside moving forward past this year. the ball seems to get on top of hitters in a hurry, quicker than they expect it. i can't wait to see if he steps to the next level in 07. or in the next 8 games. oh, and thanks, anna!

Edgy DC Oct 19 2006 09:59 AM

This also seems to be pattern with Omar Minaya, with his 1-for-2 deals: get a major leaguer you're going to punch in right away for better or for worse and get a prospect who has trended in the wrong direction, has fallen out of his team's favor, and can take his time in Norfolk (New Orleans) and benefit from a new organization with new coaches and turn himself around. Perez and Maine are our third and fourth starters right now, but both were the second guys in the deal when we got them. Minaya seems to know how to divide his eggs in multiple baskets.

Frayed Knot Oct 19 2006 10:17 AM

MFS62 wrote: If [Maine] was their sixth best, I'd sure like to know the names of the players who were ranked higher. I should know them, because they must be household names by now. Be careful about treating those lists as gospel. Often it's that a higher ranked guy is considered better for the long haul but is on a lower rung and simply ins't ready yet. They're trying to project the better career, not see who wins the race to get there first. And, IIRC, Maine WAS ranked higher a year or so before that, but these things tend to flucuate wildly from year to year and if projecting this kind of stuff were easy ... In any case, it winds up that 4 of the 7 starts in the LCS will be started by the supposed "throw-ins" from in-year trades. That's either real good, real lucky, or real desperate depending on your POV

Edgy DC Oct 19 2006 10:22 AM

Yeah, allow me to amend my post above. Maine and Perez aren't our third and fourth starters, but our second and third.

Rockin' Doc Oct 28 2006 02:00 PM

Better late than never, but this is a rather unheralded trade that ultimately turned out quite well for the Mets. How the trade ended up: What the Mets Traded Away: Kris Benson Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 30 11 �12 183.0 199 88 58 1.40 4.82 What the Mets Traded For: Jorge Julio* Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 62 2 � 4 66 52 88 35 1.32 4.23 *Combined seasonal stats (Mets 18 games & Dbacks 44 games) John Maine Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 16 6 � 5 90 69 71 33 1.13 3.60 What the Mets Ultimately Received: Jorge Julio# Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 18 1 � 2 21.1 23 33 10 1.45 5.06 O. Hernandez# Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 20 9-7 116.2 103 112 41 1.23 4.09 John Maine@ Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 16 6 � 5 90 69 71 33 1.13 3.60 #Mets stats only @excludes postseason stats

Yancy Street Gang Oct 28 2006 03:17 PM

="Rockin' Doc"]What the Mets Traded Away: Kris Benson Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 30 11 �12 183.0 199 88 58 1.40 4.82 What the Mets also traded away:

Vic Sage Oct 30 2006 11:08 AM

]John Maine@ Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 16 6 � 5 90 69 71 33 1.13 3.60 @excludes postseason stats why? Didn't he produce post-season stats for NY of some consequence? Would he have produced them if he had NOT been on the Mets?

MFS62 Oct 30 2006 11:16 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Perez and Maine are our third and fourth starters right now. And that scares me more than anything that will be knocking on my door on Halloween. Not them so much. I like their upside. But who might be numbers 1 and 2. Later

metirish Oct 30 2006 11:18 AM

Having Perez and Maine as our projected 4 and 5 guys next season is just fine by me...who's number 1 and 2...I'm sure Omar will figure that out...

MFS62 Oct 30 2006 11:43 AM

You're right. But with Pedro hurt, Orlando a free agent, and Glavine with his opt out, its the fear of the unknown. Later

metirish Oct 30 2006 11:47 AM

Ok just for the heck of it..here is my projected starting rotation for next season. 1-Glavine 2 - Matsuzaka 3 - O Hernandez 4 - Maine 5 - Perez/Bannister # 5 will be decided during spring training.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 30 2006 11:52 AM

I like the idea of Matsuzaka, but I think Zito or Schmidt is probably more likely.

Vic Sage Oct 30 2006 11:55 AM

Schmidt Glavine Maine O.Perez El Duque / Bannister / Pedro

Edgy DC Oct 30 2006 12:15 PM

We're bleeding over from another thread.

Rockin' Doc Oct 30 2006 01:20 PM

Vic Sage - "why? Didn't he produce post-season stats for NY of some consequence? Would he have produced them if he had NOT been on the Mets?" Because they weren't included in the totals for the season and I was being lazy. I didn't feel like looking up the postseason stats, adding them to the regular season, and recalculating the resultant ERA & WHIP. For the sake of completeness, I'll get over my laziness and post Maine's cumulative numbers this evening.

Rockin' Doc Nov 04 2006 09:48 PM

Vic wanted the whole story, including John Maines post-season stats, so here they are. How the trade ended up: What the Mets Traded Away: Kris Benson Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 30 11 �12 183.0 199 88 58 1.40 4.82 What the Mets Traded For: Jorge Julio* Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 62 2 � 4 66 52 88 35 1.32 4.23 *Combined seasonal stats (Mets 18 games & Dbacks 44 games) John Maine Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 19 7 � 5 103.2 79 84 44 1.19 3.47 What the Mets Ultimately Received: Jorge Julio# Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 18 1 � 2 21.1 23 33 10 1.45 5.06 O. Hernandez# Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 20 9-7 116.2 103 112 41 1.23 4.09 John Maine Games Record Innings Hits Strike outs Walks WHIP ERA 19 7 � 5 103.2 79 84 44 1.19 3.47 #Mets stats only

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

The Mets getting the Bensons back would be pretty darn funny.

[Elster88]

]Sort of like putting stale milk in the fridge and hoping it comes out fresh in the morning.

I'd say it's more like making a dumbass trade because you didn't realize that pitchers sometimes get hurt and wishing you could undo it.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don'tthink the trade indicated that the Mets didn't realize that pitchers sometimes get hurt. They traded one pitcher for two pitchers, both younger.

[Elster88]

I don't want to get into it again.

[Guest Edgy DC]

This is really starting to get interesting.

[Elster88]

Omar had no idea Maine was going to be good. He was just a throw-in.

Or.....Maine's only had two good starts so far.

Or some other pathetic attempt to save my dignity.




Actually I am a defender of all things Maine, but I'll admit it was only AFTER I saw him pitch.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Don't forget "Yeah, but it's the Cubs."

[Frayed Knot]

Maine was a reasonably regarded prospect in the Bal'mer system.
Now granted he wasn't a Sure-fire / Can't-Miss / #1 with a Bullet type, but it's not like any and all success needs to be viewed with a 'when's it gonna turn back into a pumpkin' suspicion.

For all the years Met fans have been saying that we should be trading our middling, yet aging & more expensive parts for other team's younger/cheaper/higher-upside pieces, that's exactly what they did with the Cameron & Benson deals.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Yup. And after months of being the other which way, the Cameron-Nady deal today looks like the worse of the two.

Mike Cameron Makes All the Difference

[nymr83]

i still think the camerom deal doesnt look good, but boy has omar outsmarted me on the seo deal and done decently on the benson deal as well.

[Theoldmole]

You can't really knock Nady.