Booing Beltran, Split from 4/06 IGT

[Elster88]

="soupcan"]His statements and actions early last week showed that he was pissed off he was being booed. Like he did nothing at all to deserve it. He didn't do what he took money to do and he's mad he's being called on it - Booo!

Has their ever been a time in your life when you put in less than 100% effort at your job?

Were you booed for that entire workday by 56,000 people in a canyon-shaped building that magnifies every noise? Were you even booed by the one person (be it a customer, client, or your boss) who didn't get your best results on that day?

Beltran has. And he was trying 100% that day. In fact, he may have been playing with a goddamn broken face that day.

I'm not trying to impugn your work ethic. As human beings, we all can't focus 100% 8 hours a day at a task we perform 5+ times a week. But who deserves to be booed more? Beltran who's trying his ass off to get a base hit, or the guy who takes an hour lunch instead of a half hour and the doctor who performs less than a completely thorough examination because he's exhausted at the end of an 8 hour shift?

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That's why the idea of "It's okay to boo him because he's not earning his money" is the biggest load of bullshit in sports, when the player is busting his ass. Try getting booed (just boos, not even the rest of it) by 56K people before you boo next time. Or at least try imagining it.

Here's an interesting concept: He is earning his money whether he's hitting .200 or .350. He was paid to try his hardest.

[Willets Point]

Didn't we have a discusion about booing thread around this time last year? Maybe the Long Booing Thread can be an annual Crane Pool tradition.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]...when the player is busting his ass.

Maybe it's because I just read the Funk Congress article, but I read this as "...when the player is busting he ass."

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

If you can't accept the boos, you can't accept the cheers.

[soupcan]

Edgy DC wrote: We're just going in a circle.

Agreed. Can we stop now?

="Elster88"]Were you booed for that entire workday by 56,000 people in a canyon-shaped building that magnifies every noise?

I'm not a pro athlete but if I were that's what I would expect.

="Elster88"]Were you even booed by the one person (be it a customer, client, or your boss) who didn't get your best results on that day?

Um, yeah. I get berated by customers if something doesn't go smoothly. Happens more than I'd like to admit. And you know what my philosophy is..? The customer is always right. Even if whatever happens is no fault of mine, I don't pass the buck, I take the 'abuse' because ultimately the customer utilized my services to get what he wanted. If for whatever reason he didn't get it because of the resources I chose to use, that's MY fault. I may have been trying hard but the bottom line is the results were not there for the customer.

="Elster88"]Here's an interesting concept: He is earning his money whether he's hitting .200 or .350. He was paid to try his hardest.

No he's not. The contract he signed was based on the average numbers he's produced his entire careeer. He is NOT paid for effort he is paid for results.

[Elster88]

soupcan wrote: ="Elster88"]Here's an interesting concept: He is earning his money whether he's hitting .200 or .350. He was paid to try his hardest. No he's not. The contract he signed was based on the average numbers he's produced his entire careeer. He is NOT paid for effort he is paid for results.

You'll have to show me the spot in a contract where a player guarantees certain statistics

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

"He is NOT paid for effort he is paid for results."

Agreed. We all have expectations whenever a FA signs, including the team (though they like to lower their expectations since they have some CYA to do if works out disasterously). These expectations vary a little, and because most of us are optimistic we may be expecting a little too much, but they're not crazy, nor is it crazy or unreasonable to have expectations.

I think if you get off the concept that fans should sit in a ballpark as silently as a Quaker prayer session, and recognize that they're free to tell "Yay," then they're free to express disapproval, too. Doesnt even have to be Booing, either. Seems to me that if it were customary to express disapproval simply by voicing nothing, you boo-haters would admonish the Silent Minority by telling them "You awful people just stayed harmfully silent when Beltran hit into that DP last night--you had to know how much Carlos depends on your screaming encouragement at him at times when he feels bad himself, and when he went into a rage after the game at not getting the love he expects from us, and said that he hates playing here because of the low level of cheers for hitting into DPs, well, I blame you for sending him that hateful message of silence."

Fans boo, and they cheer, and that's the way it is, and ballplayers need to deal with it as a part of their job, just as they need to deal with inside fastballs, and bad umpiring, and managerial decisions they happen not to like. It's a part of the game, and it's not going away any time soon. It would be swell if in addition to making more money per season and getting more perks of fame than any of us will earn in our lifetimes, the players' other ambitions were also fulfilled, but sometimes bad things happen to good athletes, and they need to accept it and stop all the whining.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I absolutely agree that they shouldn't whine about being booed. It doesn't help their cause at all, and they should understand that, fair or not, it's part of the package.

I also agree that it's unrealistic to expect only Yay and never Boo. You can't have yin without yang. But booing a guy when he steps up to the plate sends a different message than booing him when he pops up with a runner on third. The latter says, "We don't like that you didn't get the job done" and the former says, "We don't like YOU!"

[Elster88]

]Seems to me that if it were customary to express disapproval simply by voicing nothing, you boo-haters would admonish the Silent Minority by telling them "You awful people just stayed harmfully silent when Beltran hit into that DP last night--you had to know how much Carlos depends on your screaming encouragement at him at times when he feels bad himself, and when he went into a rage after the game at not getting the love he expects from us, and said that he hates playing here because of the low level of cheers for hitting into DPs, well, I blame you for sending him that hateful message of silence."

Where do you come up with this crap?

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

It's obviously more intelligent and rational to boo someone for something he does rather than something he is, but there are players (Rojas, Bonilla, Sisk come to mind) who did bad things so consistently that fans understandable came to dislike them, or at least dislike their being used in games.

Nothing would be more frustrating to me than to treat Rojas with polite deference and then to hear his manager after the game saying "Everyone in the ballpark supports my use of Rojas in tight ballgames. I haven't heard anything from anyone, other than you reporters asking me moronic impertinent questions, to suggest otherwise."

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Elster88 wrote: ]Seems to me that if it were customary to express disapproval simply by voicing nothing, you boo-haters would admonish the Silent Minority by telling them "You awful people just stayed harmfully silent when Beltran hit into that DP last night--you had to know how much Carlos depends on your screaming encouragement at him at times when he feels bad himself, and when he went into a rage after the game at not getting the love he expects from us, and said that he hates playing here because of the low level of cheers for hitting into DPs, well, I blame you for sending him that hateful message of silence." Where do you come up with this crap?

The voices in my head get beamed from an uncharted planet. Today's signals are particularly strong.

[Benjamin Grimm]

My daughter also says that she gets wisdom beamed into her head from God in heaven. The latest bit of wisdom was that clams do in fact give milk.

But Bret's point isn't as crappy as Elster suggests. If silence was viewed as derogatory, and it's not hard to imagine a culture where that could be the case, silent fans would be criticized by the same people who criticize booers. Of course, they'd be harder to notice; it's easy to drown out the sounds of silence.

[soupcan]

Elster88 wrote: You'll have to show me the spot in a contract where a player guarantees certain statistics

Oh it's not in the contract. If it were nobody would be making anything close to what they are. But it certainly is implied. If it weren't then how come I can't sign a contract with the Mets for $120 million then?

I'll try my best, I won't have great results but I promise to go out there everyday and give it my best effort.

When they gave him that contract did they say all we want is effort? If you give us a .268 average and 16 homeruns as long as you try hard that'll be great?

I don't think so.

="Yancy Street Gang"]But booing a guy when he steps up to the plate sends a different message than booing him when he pops up with a runner on third. The latter says, "We don't like that you didn't get the job done" and the former says, "We don't like YOU!"

He was getting booed for underperforming last year.

[Elster88]

soupcan wrote: ="Elster88"]You'll have to show me the spot in a contract where a player guarantees certain statistics Oh it's not in the contract. If it were nobody would be making anything close to what they are. But it certainly is implied. If it weren't then how come I can't sign a contract with the Mets for $120 million then?

Because if they didn't sign him at that amount, someone else would've signed him.

soupcan wrote: When they gave him that contract did they say all we want is effort?

Yes.

[Guest cooby]

If all they want is effort, not results, where can I sign up?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'd sign up too, but it's too much effort.

[Elster88]

cooby wrote: If all they want is effort, not results, where can I sign up?

This is getting ridiculous. Do I really have to explain? They signed him to do his best, and were expecting a certain output based on what they had observed previously.

I doubt your history in baseball will get you an offer cooby.

These are simple concepts.

[Elster88]

How about we shrink the creepy old lady's head?

[Guest cooby]

Yeah, what they observed in the playoffs the previous year.

[soupcan]

="Elster88"] This is getting ridiculous.

Agreed.

="Elster88"]Do I really have to explain? They signed him to do his best, and were expecting a certain output based on what they had observed previously.

That's right and he's not giving them (the owners, the fans) what they expected.

="Elster88"]These are simple concepts.

Agreed.

[Guest KC]

I didn't wanna say anything, but that Joan Payson mugshot is kinda creepy.

[Guest cooby]

Yeah, I was kinda thinking, when I hit 12,000, if nobody minds, I'd like to go back to being just Linus.

Though I do like the picture and I do like Mrs. Payson

[Guest cooby]

Holy crap, I think it just got bigger!

[Guest OlerudOwned]

cooby wrote: Holy crap, I think it just got bigger!

Conquest!

[Benjamin Grimm]

I hear you, cooby. I'm looking forward to a time when I have enough posts to get rid of the graphics above my own head.

[soupcan]

And here I am pining away for Ron Swoboda.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I always found Joan Payson a little creepy.

[Guest cooby]

I'll try to get to 12,000 ASAP otherwise Joan will be haunting all our dreams

[Benjamin Grimm]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I always found Joan Payson a little creepy.

When you get to be my age you'll see her as a hottie.

[Guest cooby]

She looks like my one aunt