Puckett in Ariz hospital after suffering stroke

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I'm not sure the crap is any worse for Barry than Ted, there's just so much more of it. Ted was killed almost every day of his career by the Boston press, with only a sliver of it ever necessary.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Gotta mention "Smilin' Stanley Hack" here.

from Wikipedia:Stanley Camfield Hack (December 6, 1909 - December 15, 1979) was an American third baseman in Major League Baseball who played his entire career for the Chicago Cubs from 1932 through 1947. Hack batted left-handed and threw right-handed. A native of Sacramento, California, he was nicknamed "Smilin' Stan" for his good-natured demeanor.

In a 16-season career, Hack posted a .301 average with 57 home runs and 642 RBI in 1938 games, as he made the National League All-Star team five times.

Hack died at age 70 in Dixon, Illinois.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Ted was killed almost every day of his career by the Boston press, with only a sliver of it ever necessary.

Yeah, no doubt. And the fact that it wasn't as much the bottom line for him historically as it seems to be for Bonds may well be a byproduct of the nationalization of sports media as it anything to do with complexion.

My position is more that genial black guys are quicker to be lionized more than that surly black guys are quicker to be demonized. It would be nice if I could establish the latter to support the former, but clearly I can't.

[nymr83]

] Berra's longer and more accomplished career providing more than enough fodder to fill his plaque

I think that is completely the distinction. Berra is someone who belonged in the Hall beyond a shadow of a doubt and his plaque can easily be filled with his accomplishments, the same cannot be said of Puckett.

[Elster88]

A big topic of discussion today by at least one radio host (not sure who on ESPN) is that he can't get past the fact that someone abused animals and women.

He also feels there is no statue of limitations on how long you have to wait after someone dies before bashing them.

I'm just reporting, not taking a stance myself.

[Guest SwitchHitter]

He was on our station before the Mets game, too.

[nymr83]

Elster88 wrote: A big topic of discussion today by at least one radio host (not sure who on ESPN) is that he can't get past the fact that someone abused animals and women. He also feels there is no statue of limitations on how long you have to wait after someone dies before bashing them. I'm just reporting, not taking a stance myself.

Its hard to get past the wife-beating thing, I'd probably bash him more about it if i were old enough to clearly remember the details from back then, which i'm not.
as far as a SOL on bashing the dead i think it all depends what you are saying and why. I guess what i'm saying is that i don't think you should bring up minor character faults (gambling, drugs, steroids) the day after a guy passes away, but things like beating your wife and killing people (Ray Lewis anyone?) are far more serious and shouldn't be ignored just because the guy is dead.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

The only valid reason to treat someone differently when they're dead is to avoid hurting the feelings of people who are mourning his loss.

"Oh, your brother just died? Well, he was a jerk anyway. He died owing me five bucks! How about YOU pay me the five and we'll call it even?"

That wouldn't be cool.

But unless you're talking to a friend or relative of Kirby Puckett there's no reason to hold your tongue. Saying "I'm glad he's dead" or anything like that would be uncalled for, but if you're discussing his career, or his conduct, whatever you would have said last week can still be said this week.

The reluctance to "speak ill of the dead" is, I believe, grounded in superstition. You don't want the ghost of Kirby Puckett following you into restrooms, for example. But if you don't believe in ghosts it shouldn't be a concern.

[DocTee]

Gary Sheffield had an interesting take on this a while back, comparing Eric Davis ("injury prone'") to Lenny Dykstra ("nails") . He felt that black athletes were routinely and wrongly held to higher societal standards. IIRC he also spoke about how white athletes who got in teammates faces (Kent) were applauded for leadership while minoroities who did the same (Mondesi) were portrayed as selfish or upstaging their counterparts.

[soupcan]

I don't really pay much attention when Sheffield opens his mouth.

[seawolf17]

="Yancy Street Gang"]You don't want the ghost of Kirby Puckett following you into restrooms, for example. But if you don't believe in ghosts it shouldn't be a concern.

Funny that you should mention that; the ghost of Don Knotts stopped by my office this morning, thanking me for remembering his groundbreaking work work on "Scooby Doo."

[Guest Rotblatt]

When was Kent ever applauded?

[soupcan]

Rotblatt wrote: When was Kent ever applauded?

Exactly.

[Guest rpackrat]

]Berra is someone who belonged in the Hall beyond a shadow of a doubt and his plaque can easily be filled with his accomplishments, the same cannot be said of Puckett.

Very much the same thing can be said about Puckett. While Kirby's career was shorter (12 full seasons compared to Berra's 14 full and 5 partial seasons, including his fade-out years of 1962-64), they were very similar hitters (125 OPS+ for Yogi, 124 for Puckett). Puckett had better speed and won 2 MVPs, 6 GGs and a batting title to Yogi's 3 MVPs, 0 GGs and 0 batting titles.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I think that there are too many people in the Hall of Fame, and there are a bunch that I'd like to remove. I don't think Kirby Puckett would be one of them, though.

[Frayed Knot]

I think Puckett was a borderline H-o-Fer and was quite possibly was put over the top by his "winning personality" and also the "tragic" way his career ended prematurely. We'll never know, but I suspect if the sordid stories of his off-field life had come to light a year or so before they did (ie; before his induction) it may have been enough to swing the vote against him.

When Kirby's name is brought up the argument always blooms from Yanqui fans (it's probably doing so all over talk radio today) about 'Why not Mattingly?'. The lifetime stats of the two are very similar but there are some differences:
* Puckett's two WS wins. It's not Mattingly's fault that he never got there but it is to Kirby's advantage that he did and he SHINED while he was on that stage
* Despite the similar overall stats, Puckett put up his in about a dozen real good seasons while Donny-boy had 5 or 6 great ones followed by 5 or 6 mediocrities. Advantage Puckett
* and the biggest one MFY fans want to ignore: when you've got similar offensive stats from a GG 1Bman (9 times I believe) and a GG CFer (6 times); give a BIG edge to the CFer. Mattingly was a very good 1st baseman but that only takes you so far.

[DocTee]

My apologies: it wasn't Kent, but Jason Giambi whom Shef referred to. As a member of the Oakland A's there was amuch-replayed incident in which Giambi upbraided Tejada for not scoring form second on a single. Giambi received some kudos for this-- but when Modesi did the same vs. Shawn Green it was cast in a whole 'nother light. (again, I may have the particulars fuzzy on the last pair of individuals-- the Shef interview i am citing was with Roy Firestone on ESPN's UpClose.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Jim Caple covered the Twins from 1989-1993, and he pays tribute to Puckett here.

[Frayed Knot]

From Phil Mushnick's Friday column:

Steiner Sports, the autograph/memorabilia firm that does exclusive work with the Yankees and Rangers ... e-mailed customers with word that with Puckett's passing, "The sports world has lost a great one," and Steiner Sports "still has five Batting Champ balls that have his signature." Only $800 apiece.
The missive further noted that Steiner Sports has Puckett's autograph on a ball with 15 Hall of Famers. Those balls go for $2,000 each.

With Puckett deceased only hours, one customer e-mailed back to express his disgust by such a sell.
The next day, a Steiner salesman responded: "You are 100 percent correct and I apologize." That Puckett come-on, he continued, was "on a timer and wasn't supposed to be sent out until this morning."


Oh, so Steiner Sports agrees that trying to take advantage of Puckett's young death the same day is crass but thinks it's OK if they wait until the next morning?

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

It's a business.

Whatever It Takes to generate cash-flow.

What standard are you using?