WE WANT BOBBY V

[nymr83]

only 1 guy that has managed this team in the last 10 years has had a managerial brain in his head, the great Bobby V.
Art Howe and now Willie Randolph have shown a total inability to manage a major league baseball team... your bullshit might fly in the AL where you can fall asleep at the wheel but not here.
Get Valentine back, i don't care what you have to pay to get him out of his contract.

[Elster88]

Too bad he'll be coaching the Yankees next year. Savvy move by Cashman or whoever the fuck convincing Torre to put up with George III's bullshit until Willie got cleared, lol.
_____________________________
This post was under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

[Zvon]

Bobby V wasnt the best manager when it came to using pitchers himself.
How soon we forget.

Nah, like Elster said, this team was far from a shoe in for a playoff spot, and ya have to give Willie afew years to see what he's all about.

Just like when i heard Omar was takin the helm as GM.
My 1st thought was we will be in the World Series again, for sure, within the next 3/4 years.
After getting Martinez, I figure 3 for sure, cuz you cant expect him to be as effective as he can be after 3 more years.

Some may look at this Mets season and scream TEASE!
I look at it and say this is the beginning of something good.

[nymr83]

Bobby v was the man.
i never had a long-term problem with his bullpen management, though every manager has bad games

[DocTee]

]ya have to give Willie afew years to see what he's all about.

Bullshit. That's the same type of thinking that causes WWSB to underuse Heilman ("let's see him work in low-pressure situations") and stick with under-performers like Cairo.("4-for-48?-- Lets give him a few more ABs to see if he can't get it together") Bullshit...

That being said, I dunno why Rick Peterson is getting off scot-free here...doesn't he manage the staff?

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think we should use bullshit sparingly.

Heilman is interesting. His sttuff seems really nice, and he and Benson both seemed to have benefirtted from Pedro's orbit and used the change very effectively.

But he also seems to work too fine --- losing guys he's up on and getting behind peeps with two outs --- pitching himself (or his successor) into trouble.

The persistence of Cairo drives me nutters. Long past is the small sadistic pleasure I derived from the disappointment of Met fans who ripped Matsui and Demanded Miguel.

I think we need to get used of the idea that Randolph is going to serve two years minimum, on the notion that a manager gets one year to see what he's got, and another year to show what he can do with it.

One guess is that's what he was doing in the seventh --- seeing what he's got. I'd rather he acted like he was in a playoff race, too.

And that's just a guess. More likely he's indeed got a mental book that says to try to save Hernandez for the eighth.

[metirish]

Here is Willie's thinking when he brought in Takatsu to face Cabrera , the numbers that made him role the dice..

Roberto Hernandez (7-for-12, three HRs), Heath Bell (3-for-5) or Aaron Heilman (5-for-15) , this form Willie.

]"I felt like giving him a little twist," Randolph said. "A guy with a little funk might be able to get him off guard."

I guees he rolled the dice and got beat, tough to see the new guy in that spot, I wanted Hernandez, even knowing the numbers now I would still want Bert, you should lose with your best I think.

Some interesting quotes in this article form players..

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets0904,0,3935782.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

[Guest Spacemans Bong]

Season's over.

[Guest SI Metman]

My problem with Bobby V though is he lost it at the end and had no control over the clubhouse. I don't want him to be a Pinella in Tampa situation or Bowa in Philly.

I still view this season as 1984. Not our year, but close with the young talent growing and the pieces being added. If Omar can acquire Gary Carter in the offseason, then we are set.

[Guest SI Metman]

Oh, and one more thing to remember - Bobby V means no Glavine or Floyd.

In other words, this team is probably 10 games worse.

[nymr83]

]My problem with Bobby V though is he lost it at the end and had no control over the clubhouse

I don't think this is that kind of clubhouse anymore. Gone are Rickey, Franco, Leiter, Vaughn, Benitez etc. Wright, Reyes, Beltran, and crew are not going to be a clubhouse problem no matter who manages.

]Oh, and one more thing to remember - Bobby V means no Glavine or Floyd. In other words, this team is probably 10 games worse

If Glavine retired tommorow the Mets would be no worse...theyhave 5 other starters as good or better than he is.
As for Floyd...well he wouldn't make a 10 game diference over an "average" left fielder...probably more like 3 or 4. Thats assuming he stays healthy next year which is hard to be optimistic about with his history.

[Guest Rotblatt]

="Edgy DC"]I think we should use bullshit sparingly. Heilman is interesting. His sttuff seems really nice, and he and Benson both seemed to have benefirtted from Pedro's orbit and used the change very effectively. But he also seems to work too fine --- losing guys he's up on and getting behind peeps with two outs --- pitching himself (or his successor) into trouble..

Heilman has been our best reliever all season. It's pretty much indisputable once you look at the stats.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Nymr83 wrote: [...probably more like 3 or 4.

More like 2. Best case scenario, Cliff's worth about a 6-4 season where the average LFer's 5-5. To make him 7-3 is to crown him MVP or close to it.

[nymr83]

ok, 2 it is. that only helps make my point.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

="Edgy DC"]I think we should use bullshit sparingly.

It's lines like this that irritate me. If it's your opinion that we should all do this or that, then just do this or that yourself. Why invalidate others' ponts of view with a holier-than-thou "THIS IS HOW I WANT YOUR POSTS TO READ" pronouncement.

You disagree with DocTee's position that WWSB's use of Heilman is bullshit? Fine. Dispute that point.

Or is it that you prefer calling things you disagree with "nonsense" or "specious," eschewing the vulgarity of "bullshit"? Fine. Whatever. Then use those terms yourself, and let DocTee say what he wants how he wants to say it.

I realize there's an ironic element in my telling Edgy that his posting style sucks because of how he tells people their posting style sucks. No need to make that point. I acknowledge it.

[Elster88]

I'd agree with Edgy. By saying "bullshit", you're basically saying the other person's point is meaningless and has no merit whatsoever. Seems overly rude to me, and the kind of line you'd hear in other fora. If you disagree with someone just say so, no need to get all dramatic.

To me, DocTee's post wasn't saying that WWSB's use of Heilman was bullshit, he was saying Zvon's post was bullshit. Why say that, instead of disputing his point in the same way you challenge Edgy to dispute his point? Why not keep it civilized? Or am I being an oversensitive weenie?
_____________________________
This post was under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

[DocTee]

My apologies to Zvon or anyone else who was (or may have been) offended by my choice of words-- my intent was not to disparage any poster, only to express my displeasure with an overly complacent "wait till next year approach" on the part of both WWSB and some forum apologists.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Apologies for misunderstanding DocTee's point.

Mine was that Edgy doesn't really want us never to dispute points rudely. He tosses provocative words like "nonsense" around word pretty freely (at least he did when he was acknowedgling my presence here) and took no real trouble to see that he was being gentle, kind, patient, or thorough in understanding points he considered nonsensical whenever he was feeling frisky and disputatious.

I find it hypocritical in the extreme to read these schoolmarmish admonitions about decorum, collegial language and scholarly manners being distributed with noblesse oblige from on high.

[Elster88]

DocTee wrote: My apologies to Zvon or anyone else who was (or may have been) offended by my choice of words-- my intent was not to disparage any poster, only to express my displeasure with an overly complacent "wait till next year approach" on the part of both WWSB and some forum apologists.

I should apologize too for misreading your post.

[Elster88]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: Apologies for misunderstanding DocTee's point. Mine was that Edgy doesn't really want us never to dispute points rudely. He tosses provocative words like "nonsense" around word pretty freely (at least he did when he was acknowedgling my presence here) and took no real trouble to see that he was being gentle, kind, patient, or thorough in understanding points he considered nonsensical whenever he was feeling frisky and disputatious. I find it hypocritical in the extreme to read these schoolmarmish admonitions about decorum, collegial language and scholarly manners being distributed with noblesse oblige from on high.

Seriously, I'm not one who should be critical over other's language. Sometimes I try to take a moral high ground when I really belong down in the sewers of morality. Or something.

[Zvon]

DocTee wrote: My apologies to Zvon or anyone else who was (or may have been) offended by my choice of words-- my intent was not to disparage any poster, only to express my displeasure with an overly complacent "wait till next year approach" on the part of both WWSB and some forum apologists.

no need to apologize to me.
I dont expect all to agree with me and I welcome the other perspectives.
I dont mind the language or the attitude.
Thats you....this is me.

If everyone just kissed each others ass here the place would be rather boring, DoNtChAtHiNk?

And the season aint over until Oct, Fret Spoogylooger, no matter where the Mets may be in the race.
I get to see Reyes and Wright doin there thing for 30 more days, tHaNkYoUvErYmUcH

[Zvon]

Zvon wrote: I get to see Reyes and Wright doin there thing for 30 more days, tHaNkYoUvErYmUcH

at least 30 days, maybe longer......muuuuuuuuhahahaHAHAHAHAH

[Guest KC]

I don't read Edge's response as a schoolmarmish mandate or anything.
That cross just gets bigger everyday and must be difficult to bear. I mean
if your looking for something to twist your way you could do it in everything
that's written here.

And if we're going to talk bullshit, this forum has been overly critical (if
anything) about just about everything Willie Randolph, so to label people
forum apologists is prolly going on some old pre-conceived notions. I
also don't think that Willie has been overly complacent or has a wait
until next year approach.

Whole lotta bullshit in this thread. Yup ©

[DocTee]

] I also don't think that Willie has been overly complacent

I beg to differ-- and I'm not alone. How many times have we heard pleas that Willie get run from a game, if only to inspire his charges. But maybe this only supports your claim that the CPF is overly critical of Randolph.

[Guest KC]

Getting thrown out of a baseball game is not inspirational. If ya need to go
out and protect a player or stand up for a bad call that's different. But just
to show some fire in the belly?

Dugout demeanor is like so low on the chart of what we could complain
about with regard to Willie that it's almost not worth wasting keystrokes
on. Funny how if the Mets were ten games over five hundred, you'd hear
people saying his demeanor is noble - you can't tell if the team is up or down.
When you're losing, you have no fire.

My bullshit detector is beeping.

[Elster88]

DocTee wrote: ] I also don't think that Willie has been overly complacent I beg to differ-- and I'm not alone. How many times have we heard pleas that Willie get run from a game, if only to inspire his charges. But maybe this only supports your claim that the CPF is overly critical of Randolph.

I think this is silly. All of the players have busted their ass all year long, they don't need to be inspired by the manager getting ejected.
_____________________________
This post was under the designation 164) Keith Miller

[DocTee]

]Dughut demeanor is like so low on the chart of what we could complain about with regard to Willie that it's almost not worth wasting keystrokes on.

So there are many other things about WWSB that irk you? I thought you said we were being too critical of the man?

beep beep beep

[Guest KC]

Let's not get all dramatic here. All I meant was that you made it sound like
there are forum apologists here rushing to Willie's bed side while (if anything)
there's no one here doing that at all. Apologist is an old and overused word
on the Mets' internet scene.

[Zvon]

ill say this.
iread this week that Willie doesnt keep track of what team he's playing to far down the line. He said he doesnt look that far ahead .This is okay in April, May,JuneIts inexcusable and unnacceptable in Sept if you are in the hunt. Even WE know how the schedule pans out series for series thru this month.
He said now he has his wife quizzing him to make him more aware.
Thats some happy crappy.

On having Shingo pitch the other day, he sai he didnt regret using him, but regrets that he threw a fastball 2-1 and didnt "throw the funk". he said pallia could have easily thrown a fastball there and that Shingo shouldnt have. THEN GET WORD TO SHINGO BEFORE HE THROWS THE PITCH TO THROW THE FUNK! If thats what he's there to do, tell him.
You the freakin manager. You can dictate what is thrown if you wish to.

This is September, and the mets must have defined roles, especially rotation wise, so players know what they have to do and can concentrate on that. Its not a time to be playing musical chairs with the rotation or the pen. You have your starters, your middle men, your setup guy, and your closer. For good or bad, define those roles.

Now dont get me wrong. im not jumping on the bandwagon here. I still think Willie gets his 3 yrs at the helm.

Im not calling for his head.
Im calling on him to use his head.

[DocTee]

]Im not calling for his head. Im calling on him to use his head.

Hear, hear. (or is it, "here, here"?) Anyway, I agree--

Memo to Willie: keep Cairo nailed to the bench, use your pitchers wisely and keep up the aggressiveness on the basepaths