IGT - Noon Broiler -- 8/4/05

[Guest Rotblatt]

Well, when you're right, you're right, Vic . . .

Argh!!!

All season, he's misused a decent pen and made it look worse than it is . . .

[Guest Rotblatt]

Right thread:

Just one more time: the losses today and yesterday are Willie's fault. And whoever decided that Graves deserved to be here more than Bell.

I'm sorry, but there's NO WAY he should have pulled Heilman after 1 inning, then given the quick hook to Padilla. And if you're going to use Graves, you might as well use him for more than an inning when your only other choice is the 40 year old you've worked to death and a worn out Looper.

Inexcusable. The worst part is that Robo's going to take the heat for it, when it was clear bullpen mismanagement by Willie--a problem that's plagued us all year. I mean, giving DeJean & Aybar as many high-leverage situations as he did when Heilman & Bell were doing well was fucking stupid, plain & simple. And letting Padilla languish in Norfolk was another bad decision.

Signing Graves was fine, but it's time to end the experiment.

I fucking hate games like this.

[Guest cooby]

Elster88 wrote: Well, Mazz is available.

We can't overlook this. It's too funny

[seawolf17]

Dammit.

[Centerfield]

Just when I thought it couldn't get much worse than last night.

From Pittsburgh, to the Sunday Night MFY game, to last night's game...this season has just been full of punches to the stomach.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Fucking hell.

Is it too late to bring back Bobby V?

While I'm bashing Willie, he totally should've put Cliff in there to bat for Cairo.

I mean, if you're Turnbow, who would you rather face? It's no contest--put the pressure on the kid and give Cliff a chance to be a hero.

[Elster88]

]you might as well use him for more than an inning when your only other choice is the 40 year old you've worked to death

Not to mention it's about 1,000 degrees outside. 'Course, this reasoning may also be why he took everyone else out so quick. Too bad he didn't decide to take care of Bert that way too.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think the thinking goes that you use your slugger when he can come up as at least the tying run.

[Elster88]

cooby wrote: ="Elster88"]Well, Mazz is available. We can't overlook this. It's too funny

Too bad they didn't let Art manage out his contract. They could've fired him this year and we wouldn't have Willie.

And I'm a guy who supports small ball.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Back in the day, an early exit that burns the pen --- like Zambrano's --- was partially ameliorated by the offending starter making himself available out of the pen the next day or two.

Of course, it was also addressed by an emergency callup -- a choice Omar chose not to make.

[Elster88]

Fire up that Galaxy .500.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Just to say I told you so, I DID say that we should DFA Graves and bring up Bell after our win on Tuesday. Things might have turned out a bit different had we done that.

On the same note, had we left Petey in there last night, maybe Robo & Loop are both available tonight . . .

In my scenario, we would've had Bell ready to go in for Pedro last night if Pedro struggled, then we could still have turned to one of Robo or Loop for the ninth if Bell didn't look sharp or Willie didn't trust him.

Then today, we'd have had Loop or Robo available in the ninth . . .

Willie's a cruel, cruel man. Robo has GOT to be upset right now, and he's got nothing to be ashamed of. Willie set him up to fail.

[Centerfield]

Too bad we didn't keep that "shoulda" game thread going. It'd be like a thousand pages by now.

[Elster88]

What exactly did Graves do wrong today? In your scenario, doesn't Bell pitch Graves' inning, leaving Bert for the ninth? Today the problem was Willie, not the roster.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Rotgut, I don't think you'll find any argument here that Willie used his pen as effectively as he might've.

[Elster88]

What happened on the ball to Beltran in the ninth for the double? Lundy said he misplayed it?

[Guest Rotblatt]

]What exactly did Graves do wrong today? In your scenario, doesn't Bell pitch Graves' inning, leaving Bert for the ninth? Today the problem was Willie, not the roster.

The problem with Graves is that Willie didn't have any confidence to put him out there for another inning--and not without reason. Bell, on the other hand, Willie seemed to have more confidence in and was more willing to use him over multiple innings.

And in MY rosiest scenario, Petey pitched a complete game last night, and today, Heilman relieved Benson in the fifth after he walked Jenkins, maybe allowing one of Benson's runs to score, leaving us winning 6-4. I'd have left him in for the sixth, and after we went up 8-4, I'd have PH for him, since I had SO many relievers fresh in the pen. Use Padilla in the 7th, then Bell in the 8th & 9th. If it got too close, I'd bringing in Robo or Loop to slam the door shut.

And there you have it--Rotblatt puts us at 3 games over .500!

I'm clearly being a bit facetious here, but Willie's use of our pen the last two days has been atrocious. Petey's not made of glass, and with our bullpen trashed from 11 innings the night before, you've got to give him every chance to rest the pen. If you DON'T do that, call up a fresh arm for the love of Christ or have a plan to use Zambrano (as Edgy suggested) or be willing to ride the guys you trust who DIDN'T throw 60 pitches over the last day and a half--namely Padilla & Heilman.

[Valadius]

WHAT THE HELL???

How dumb ARE you Willie? How moronic could you possibly be? You knew it was going to catch up to Roberto Hernandez sooner or later. He's 40 freaking years old, and you send him out there for a FOURTH consecutive day in the August heat, which he has stated many times he hates to pitch in? After he shows the signs of crumbling in his two previous outings? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?!?!

[Guest cleonjones11]

Relying on a 40 year old in this weather? Does Beltran need roids or is he just a pussy?

Bring back Bobby V.


Keep Wright,Reyes,Pedro and dump the rest..This team sucks

[Guest Edgy DC]

Easy on the bold.

Petey's not made of glass

Nor, apparently, is Roberto Hernandez made of rubber.

Though it's three straight days, not four, to be fair. Even in fairness, that's four innings over three days, and the rest is true enough. And Bert had been burned by overuse before.

[Lundy]

Elster, I didn't see the Beltran play, but from the way Gary Cohen was describing it, Beltran might have misjudged the ball because it rolled all the way to the wall. The hit was scored a double, so it might not have been Beltran's fault. But Gary seemed to think Carlos could have made a better play on that one.

[Frayed Knot]

It was a liner to CF which was going to be a single regardless of what Beltran did ... but he was charging straight in when it was actually slightly to his right ... which still shouldn't have a problem except that it had rained briefly in the 8th and so the when the ball hit grass it skidded past him low & untouched and rolled to the wall.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Elster88 wrote: I don't like depending on the long ball for home runs, even if chicks dig it. Cooby, IP, Annie, silver, do chicks really dig the long ball?

I'm more of a pitching fan, personally. But well placed homers are always appreciated.

BTW, I was following this one on mets.com while on a ship that resembled the S.S. Poseidon at the time. Not a good combo....

[Guest cooby]

So, would you say you identify more now with Shelley Winters or Carol Lynley? (who was always one of my favorite actresses, btw)

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Carol. Since A) I'm alive, and B) I'm not THAT fat!


BTW, at dinner that night, the crowd was asked to join along in singing, "Auld Lang Syne." Considering how the ship was rocking that day, the people at our table questioned the appropriateness of that choice of music.