IGT, 2026-08-02, MIA@NYM

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Green should resign.

[Edgy MD]

2 hours ago, Frayed Knot said:

Because?

Because the idea is to run 20 feet past third, downshifting as you come through the bag, rather than braking hard coming into the bag.  This forces the defense to make quicker decisions in a heightened state and execute with precision in doing so.  The point isn't necessarily to try to score at all, but to put pressure on the defense and provide coverage to the runner.

Because when a ball is hit deep enough to left center to allow a firstbaseman who sprints at 27.7 ft./second to leg out a double, starting at a standstill running toward that point left center when the throw is coming from 150 feet away, then a centerfielder, who sprints at 29.1 ft./second (second-best on the team), who is 20 feet away from second running at a gallop when the ball is struck — should he be waived home — will not be out at home by 45 feet on a throw from that leftfielder who failed to get the batter-runner at second, throwing from that 150-foot-away point to second, at which point the second baseman is forced to rotate and make a second 127-foot throw, even as the runner downshifted for 20 feet coming around third.

Those are all important mathematical factors that suggest nobody is getting thrown out by 45 feet.

But the real purpose is not necessarily to break for home at all, but to put pressure on the defense and make them make plays.  Making the turn and forcing the outfielder to throw through is just good baseball, and how good third base coaches work.  If the outfielder is turning toward home to make a throw, the third-base coach can then put up the stop sign, affording the runner plenty of time to retreat.  The trailing runner is in at second, and maybe the throw is airmailed to Kenya and your lead runner jogs home. 

If there is no play at third, the third base coach needs to get down the line so he can make the run/stop call as late in the play as possible without getting his player caught off base.  Tim Leiper did not do that, positioning himself at third to stop the player coming into the bag, taking his runner out of the play while the play was still unfolding.

As for there being no outs, the 2026 Mets ability to score runners from third with less than two outs speaks for itself.  The bottom of the batting order coming up is also a factor.  And sadly, the ultimate outcome was a retroactive testimony on behalf of forcing the matter.

[Frayed Knot]

He could have been more aggressive with his hold, but it was always going to be a hold.

QuoteAuthor

 

• If the ball goes into second, Robert scores.  

The throw was always going into 2nd. It was released prior to Robert reaching 3rd and prior to him putting on the breaks. So even if he was being sent the entire time and never broke stride he's not coming close to scoring.  And, yes, the 2nd baseman was looking at the lead runner as he was receiving the throw.

I'll revise my claim to 'out by 30 ft' rather than 45, but aren't going any lower than that. That's a 'no send' in just about any situation but with no outs it would have been an especially terrible move to wave him.

[Edgy MD]

Great, and I didn't advocate sending him.

[Centerfield]

Either way, it’s correct to get down that line and have your runner make the turn. They’re not going to risk throwing behind him. And you never know what will happen. A bounced throw. A bobble.  The runner knows by how you wave him that the brakes might come on. 

[Edgy MD]

And that's what I'm saying.

[Centerfield]

One of the many frustrating parts of this season is how many times they screw up fundamental baseball. It sounds like making the turn here wouldn’t have made a difference.  But there’s no excuse not to play this out correctly. A baserunner knows the difference between a third base coach camped at third windmilling (“you’re scoring”) versus a third base coach getting down the line signaling to come to him. That baserunner knows to take the turn hard, but knows the next sign will be either a windmill or a stop sign. Here. The next sign would have been a stop sign, and nothing changes and the Mets still lose. But they didn’t do what they were supposed to do. 

By slowing down the runner before the bag, Lieper removes the possibility of scoring on a bobble, a ball in the dirt, an overthrow.  Just bad baseball.

The 2026 Mets have been one of the worst fundamental teams I’ve ever seen. It’s like they’re being coached by guys who never played the game. And I realize the coaches have played the game, which makes it all so puzzling. 

[Cowtipper]

Welcome back, Robert Stock, by the way. That's a name I never thought I'd see again with the Mets. He was a part of that topsy-turvy 2021 bullpen year where they used 42 pitchers. Remember Trevor Hildenberger, Geoff Hartlieb, Jared Eickhoff, Heath Hembree, Brad Hand, Anthony Banda, Jordan Yamamoto, Nick Tropeano, Akeem Bostick, Stephen Tarpley, Jacob Barnes and Yennsy Diaz? All from that crazy year. Not the mention Rich Hill, who was intended to "bolster" the team during the playoff run. 

[Edgy MD]

As much as the kids from Poverty Valley hated me and the kids from Working Class Gardens, God, we all hated the kids from Rich Hill.