Zvon

I'm having a HARRY WEEK here (started this 5/31/13_this is like a journal). Listening to Nilsson, looking for songs, that documentary, and anything else the innerwebs gives up. I had ten favs picked but as I listen I hear another song & I'm like : DAMN! That ones gotta make the list! So, its been bumped from 10 to 20. When I feel really passionate about something I'll make posts like this. Don't worry. It's a rare thing. The reason I'm making such a big, time sucking post is because if I can get just one person here to discover Harry it's well worth it. I've done this before online for Nilsson. Actually this is more about me than Nilsson. Its about the way I experienced him as a fan. On top let me say I discovered Harry Nilsson in 1971 and rediscovered him a number of times over the years. It looks like this is another one of these times. Let me rephrase that: I got into Harry in '71 and he lost me and got me back a number of times over the years while he was alive. I didnt hear Harrys stuff in the order he released it. It went like 71 to 74 (Nilsson Schmilsson /Son Of Schmilsson / Son Of Dracula) then in 1978 I started buying his albums from the 60s, (all cept Skidoo- didn't even know of this movie until I saw it a few years ago- the movie was pretty bad, but a great example of a typical late 60s big cast comedy movie-Groucho Marx played God in this). I really really enjoyed the 60s stuff. I was surprised and amazed. After Pussy Cats(more on this album at bottom) I was not buying any new releases by Harry. The Popeye soundtrack songs were very Nilssonish, but I never bought this. Getting a copy of Harry(1969) in 1978 was the start of me buying all his older albums and to me, these were new. So while Nilsson was going down musically(debatable), I was going up with the older stuff that I had never heard. Between 1978 & 1990 I bought Harry, Aerial Pandemonium Ballet, Nilsson Sings Newman, (in the CD age>)Aerial Ballet, Pandemonium Shadow Show and The Point. And of course Nilsson's Personal Best:Anthology and For The Love Of Harry:Everybody Sings Nilsson in 1995 (a tribute collection of his songs by other artists). When Nilsson died he got me back for good. He left us some great music. I could no longer judge his stuff as a fan, just appreciate his works. I didn't go out and buy all his stuff. But I made sure to complete my collection of the albums I loved by him (if and when I could find the CDs. I think its all out there now). Nilsson's Tower Records release SPOTLIGHT ON NILSSON(1966). I didn't know this existed until now. Kool beans.There are 5 originals and 5 covers on it. Anyone here have this? I've never been a fan of an entire album of Harry doing the "standards" like A Little Touch of Schmilsson in the Night (1973) although he does these very well. Aside from Nilsson Sings Newman, a few covers here and there mixed in with Nilsson original stuff was preferable. I'd pick none of these songs to represent him. I've never seen the Son Of Dracula film. I'm going to try and rectify that this week. I heard it bites. It has never been released on DVD.[found it->>view the entire film here Son Of Dracula: ] I'm watching this now. Yikes, this is pretty horrible awfully suckass bad. Kool seeing Harry in a cape tho. The songs on the list are the ones Id listen to relaxing with a glass of brandy. Some are up, some are down, all are beautiful. The bold text below the song name is the opening line of the song. If I was burning a CD I'd call this is my Harry Nilsson "mellow line-up". ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1. Think About Your Troubles[1971-The Point] >>>"Sit beside the breakfast table, think about your troubles." To me : Harry in a nutshell. Cute melody, imaginative lyric with great vocals and harmonies. The song coupled with the animation in The Point was pretty awesome. There is a great remake of Think About Your Troubles by the Jellyfish off the '95 tribute album For The Love Of Harry: Everybody Sings Nilsson. On a side note Andy Sturmer is talking about reuniting the Jellyfish. Don't get me started on them unless you want another Zvon "SUPERPOST". Short version: Listen to their debut CD Bellybutton(1990). 2. Remember(Christmas)[1972-Son Of Schmilsson] >>> "Long ago, far away, life was clear, close your eyes" Harry wrote many beautiful songs. IMO this was his most beautiful. I always just call this song Remember. It has nothing to do with Christmas as far as I know. 3. Maybe[1969-Harry] >>>" Maybe you wouldn't be leaving if only I'd change." One of my all time favorite lyric in any song ever is (as the guy is begging his ex to get back together with him): "I could learn to love your mother, and your mothers sister. And if she'd visit other relatives I swear I'd miss her. And everyday before I go to work I'd stop to kiss her...................maybe." Sometimes a song Harry wrote and recorded was trumped by another artists cover of the tune. "ONE" is one of these to me. I love the song. I was pretty amazed when I found out Harry wrote it. Its a top three song if I was listing them by Nilsson's best songwriting. The fact that I heard the song first by Three Dog Night is definitely a factor with "ONE". They pwnd it. Usually the first version of a song I hear tends to be my favorite. But that doesn't always hold true. I first heard the song "MAYBE" as sung by Barbara Streisand(1972-The Stoney End album?)--a really great cover of this. I came to favor Nilssons version when I finally heard it. 4. Morning Glory[1969-Harry] >>> "She wakes up, she finds herself sleeping in a doorway, wondering how she ever got that way." If music and words were paint and brush Harry would have been Van Gogh. About homelessness. A homeless woman no less.This was written in 1969. That's pretty amazing. "She looks down at her feet. My God they sure look dirty. Seven-thirty: Time to be or not to be." Songs of such despair like this were not common place from pop artists that I liked. Elvis's "IN THE GHETTO" comes to mind. It has been covered quite a few times over the years. 5 Without You[1971-Nilsson Schmilsson/written by Pete Ham and Tom Evans] >>>" No I can't forget this evening nor your face as you were leaving, but I guess that's just the way the story goes." > One of the best love ballads ever due to Nilsson's awesomely powerful vocals. This is the song that made me take notice of Harry Nilsson and buy my first album by him, Nilsson Schmilsson. Omg, listening to this now really brings back a certain time and great memories. And sad ones. Hey Michelle Randazzo!(this was our song '71). Hey Diane Diaz!(our song too '72). Nothing personal, but I lived without both of you 6. Together [1971-Aerial Pandemonium Ballet*] >>>"Life isn't easy when two are divided and one has decided to bring down the curtain and one thing's for certain there's nothing to keep them together." What a powerful opening line. Some of the most sensitive lyrics ever written about breaking up. I recall now that I bought Aerial Pandemonium Ballet around '78 after I bought Harry. This was a remix collection of two of his earlier albums (Pandemonium Shadow Show and Aerial Ballet). Some songs were remixed, some pretty much stripped and redone. I didn't know this at the time. I simply thought it was two albums in one. I did not know of the earlier mixes until I got those two original albums on CD years later. First released in 1968, there are two versions of Together. The one I prefer is the remix without the horns. That's the first version I ever heard. The original version had better harmonic vocals and sound quality, but IMO the arrangment of the remix was better. I could do w/o the horns. I like the strings. *Aerial Pandemonium Ballet is not listed as one of Nilsson's albums on wikipedia. It should be. 7. Daybreak [1974-Son of Dracula] >>>"Here comes the daylight- It's makin' me sad. Here comes the sunlight- Makin' me sad. Had a good time last night- Best I ever had. Here come the sunshine- That's makin' me sad." This was the only original full song on Son Of Dracula. Ringo Starr, Klaus Voormann, Peter Frampton,Gary Wright, Bobby Keys, Jim Price, all session men on this. George Harrison played cowbell. I shit you not. I do believe Harry was a night person. 8. The Moonbeam Song [1971-Nilsson Schmilsson] >>>"Have you ever watched a moonbeam as it slid across your window pane?" Or sat on a fence with bits of crap around its bottom? Another Van Gogh. 9. City Life [1969-Harry] >>>"Well I'm down and I'm out and I've had it to here with the city life." Lived this song once. Harry didn't write this. It was written by Bill Martin. I just learned this: Bill Martin co-starred in Elephant Parts, a collection of comedy and music videos made in 1981 by Michael Nesmith, former member of the Monkees. If you're not familiar with Elephant Parts go check it out. My first copy of this was on LASERDISC! It's a classic. Ahead of its time. Heres a peek: Cruisin': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkTmuLHFsKE Rio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpq-lAlJqk8 Entire Elephant Parts vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GYBg0m4K4M 10. Dayton Ohio 1903 [1970- Nilsson Sings Newman] >>>" I sing a song of long ago when things were green and moving slow, and people stopped to say hello, they'd say hi to you." I love the fact that Harry basically put his original stuff aside to promote Randy Newmans career. Newman played piano and helped him record and mix the tracks. There are so many worthy songs on this album. Eight songs off Nilsson Sings Newman could make this list. This tune represents the whole album. If he wrote all these songs this list would have to go to 30. 11. The Lottery Song[1972-Son Of Schmilsson] >> "You could do the laundry- I'll come by on Monday- you give me the money- I will buy a ticket- on the local lottery- We could win the lottery- We could move to Vegas- and be very happy." One of my favorite songs to perform. Very easy to play. 12. I Will Take You There [1995-Personal Best-ANTHOLOGY] >>>" If only I could find a place where smiling strangers knew our faces, I would take you there." There are other versions of this on Harry and the Skidoo soundtrack. IMO the ANTHOLOGY version/mix is the best. The one that has the harmonies. 13. Life Line [1971-The Point] >>> "Down to the bottom, hello, is there anybody else here?" Saw The Point when it aired in 1971. It blew me away. The songs and animation style. I can only describe it as childishly wonderful with adult lessons. After I saw it on TV it was a memory until VHS tapes. I got a copy for my son when he was just a tot. He's 19 now and just told me the other day that the "The Point" influenced him more than I ever knew. He turned his friends on to it over the years, and they are all fans of Nilssons work. His girlfriend is a film major and uses Harrys music in her film shorts sometimes. I thought this was pretty super kool. 14. Everybodys Talkin[1968-Aerial Ballet / written by Fred Neil] >>>For years I thought Harry wrote this song. Great story on how it came to be used in Midnight Cowboy on the documentary. I honor it by allowing it to be listed next to Gil Hodges retired number. 15. The Puppy Song[1969-Harry] >>> "Dreams are nothing more than wishes and a wish is just a dream you wish to come true." I wasn't going to include this one but look at that opening line. Nilsson wrote this song at Paul McCartneys request (for another artist to sing). Harry wrote a lot of cute and funny songs and many were great, too many to clog up this list. This song represents all his cute songs. I could do a seperate list for them if you insist (ha). 16. Without Her [1971-Aerial Pandemonium Ballet ] >>> "I spend the night in a chair thinking she'll be there but she never comes and then I wake up and wipe the sleep from my eyes and I rise, to face another day without her." Another very powerful opening line. Another picture painted. Loss. Sadness. Loneliness. It doesn't say how she was lost. Did she leave. Did she die? It doesn't matter. She's gone and this song imparts both the zoaring heights of love and a deep and empty loneliness in the aftermath. I love both versions of this he released. 17. Gotta Get Up[1971-Nilsson Schmilsson] >>>" Gotta get up. Gotta get out. Gotta get home before the morning comes." How many of us have found ourselves saying this^? The first song off Nilsson Schmilsson holds a special place for me. I listened to that side of the album so many times. 18. Are You Sleeping?[1971-The Point] >>>"Are you sleeping?" Another great song from The Point. 19. Miss Butters Lament[1995-Personal Best-ANTHOLOGY] >>> "Waiting around for for the first breath of spring. Nobody else seems to care. She waits patiently with the knowledge that she will have so much to give to someone." Had to include more than the opening line here, just for the picture it paints. No idea what album this was from. Heard it first on Personal Best. Some songs from the Personal Best:ANTHOLOGY I heard for the first time on the anthology. As a result these songs are fresher to me> A song like Perfect Day (1977-Knnilssonn) would like to make this cut, unfortunately it won't. But the next time you have a perfect day, relax and listen to the song. Salmon Falls falls into this catagory as well. Even with abused and blown vocal chords Nilsson sings this song powerfully. 20. Best Friend[1966-Never released by Nilsson-can be found on TV theme song collections.] >>> "People let me tell you bout my best friend he's a warm hearted person who loves me to the end." Even though I didn't know who he was at the time, Best Friend and Everybody's Talkin' were the first Harry tunes I ever heard. I guess I'm being kinda childish to take the fact that I can't get a stereo version of this and use it against the song. It would be a top three but I don't include it in any Nilsson CDs I put together for myself, just for that reason. If you can give a listen to Daddys Song(1968) (Aerial Pandemonium Ballet remix-2:09-the orig version is 2:44) you will notice the similarities in notes and arrangment between that and Best Friend. So it might be fair to say that Girlfriend & Daddys Song= Best Friend. Favorite Nilsson Album: HARRY (1969) [To me:first heard in 1978] City Life Fairfax Rag I Guess The Lord Must Be In New York City I Will Take You There Marchin' Down Broadway Maybe Mornin' Glory Mother Natures Son Mr. Bojangles Nobody Cares About The Railroads Anymore Open Your Window Rainmaker Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Honorable mention goes to all the songs on Randy Sings Newman. More songs from this album should be on the list but if I can't put em all, Ill pick one (see list #10). Caroline/Living Without You/ Love Story/So Long Dad/The Beehive State/Vine Street. All beautifully done. As you can see I prefer alot of Nilssons more mellow and sometimes depressing stuff. The music and words to all these songs are beautiful. I love his his funnier stuff, which is very good, great even, like Coconut, but they don't make this list. His cute stuff: Bath/Good Old Desk/Simon Smith and His Amazing Dancing Bear/Cuddly Toy/ etc.. love em. But can't crack the top 20. If I was trying to get a younger person into Harry I'd have to include some funny & some of his more heavier stuff, which never gets too heavy instrumentally. I'd go with a "concert line-up", opening with Jump Into The Fire and using You're Breaking My Heart as an closer(or visaversa). In this case, Best Friend would have to be included. Ive never owned the Harry/John album PUSSY CATS. My friend did when it came out and I gave it a listen. I dismissed it as sub-par Harry, aside from "DON"T FORGET ME", which is most powerful. Im a huge John Lennon fan too, so this was surprising. I'm gonna relisten to that now, the first time in 40 years. >>>MANY RIVERS TO CROSS sounds like it was done w/Johns session band from Walls And Bridges. The opening notes and arrangment are straight out of Lennons #9 Dream. I like this. Harrys workin hard to sound like John. This might have pissed me off back then. I was an asshole when I was younger. >>"DOWN BY THE SEA" Isn't this also on Duit on Mon Dei? I do like this song and became reaquainted with it from the Personal Best:ANTHOLOGY. >>OLD FORGOTTEN SOLDIER is a rough voiced vocal. The great lyrics trump the melody. I love whistle solos. I never knew back then about him blowing out his vocal chords at this time. I thought that happened much later in his life. When I heard this back then I must have thought Harry had lost his voice. Some in that documentary said that they have to wonder if meeting John Lennon was the beginning of Nilssons end. Although they were very good friends, they seemed to bring out the worst in each other. I kind of think that success was the beginning of Harrys end, not any one person. _______________________________________________________________________ If there are alternate universes out there, I want a ticket to the one where Nilsson joined the Beatles in 1969 and the band went on to record music together until they all died of old age. Could you imagine that? I have always enjoyed doing Nilssons music. All very easy to play. I have learned to play and in some cases recorded these songs by Nilsson: Think About Your Troubles Maybe Without Her The Lottery Song Living Without You Dayton Ohio 1903 Everybodys Talking Coconut The Moonbeam Song Little Cowboy (Nilssons mother wrote this. I did not know that til now) _______________________________________________________________________ When I'm passionate about something sometimes I'll make a graphic, sometimes I'll do that^. ha

My list is almost ready. If tonights a rainout I'll find time to complete and post it. Was talking to my best buddy in NYC today about Nilsson. Got this news: Looks like I'm not the only one on a Harry kick. RCA records is too. The Harry Nilsson RCA collection is coming out July 30th. Its on amazon & its got a whole CD of rarities and plenty of extras! Talk about timing. From amazon: RARITIES DISCS: Disc 15 NILSSON SESSIONS 1967-1968 RCA Studios was Harry's professional playground from 1967 to 1977. He spent countless hours sketching, experimenting and composing songs within the confines of 6363 Sunset Blvd., right in the heart of Hollywood. Sessions Schmessions features a sampling of those dates culled from Harry's first two years at RCA. There are 14 previously unreleased tracks with Highlights include five demos taped for The Monkees("1941," "World" "Signs," "Cuddly Toy" and "This Could Be The Night") in March 1967, as well as three outtakes from his RCA debut album, Pandemonium Shadow Show ("As I Wander Lonely," "Butters Lament" and an astonishing "The Family"). Sessions for Aerial Ballet orphaned early takes of such classics as "One," "Together," "Bath" and "I Said Goodbye To Me." Additionally, Harry's cover of the Coasters classic "Searchin'" was left on the cutting room floor, as was his attempt the Addrisi Brothers' "She's Just Laughing At Me" and Procol Harum's "She Wandered Through The Garden Fence." Meanwhile, two rare, single-only tracks "Sister Marie" and the Italian language "Leggenda" make their true stereo debut on this set. Disc 16 NILSSON SESSIONS 1968-1971 covers Nilsson's studio oddities from mid-1968 through early 1971 including 12 previously unreleased tracks. Disc 17 NILSSON SESSIONS 1971-1974 wraps up all of the remaining bonus tracks, demos and alternate takes that have trickled out http://www.amazon.com/The-Albums-Collection-Harry-Nilsson/dp/B00CJCHJ8S/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1370559271&sr=8-4&keywords=harry+nilsson

Shit on a shingle. Looks like both are the same documentary under different names. Well, duh! Maybe the name change is just so they could get it up on youtube. OE: Maybe not. Just the first few minutes are the same. I'll just return with my list after I play out this Nilsson kick I'm on.

So I got Who Is Harry and another doc., Harry:The Missing Beatle. Burned the first and now burning the second. Will watch em both asap. Last few nights Ive taken a half hour or so to listen to HarryTunes and as I do I have word pad open and I work on my list, making notes about songs and whatnot. My list is going to be long and wordy. I'm thinking about setting up a widget player (or a link to one) here for a limited time to make it so anyone can give them a listen. It might be an infringment of copyright and allAdat (I would not allow the songs to be downloaded tho, only heard). If I share these songs for a few days and someone here discovers Harrys music and buys some I'm working for the greater good. I believe it would be just like lending a friend an album to check out. And that's what I'll say in court. Here is the entire Harry:The Missing Beatle on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zu51mCD5H0 I wish I knew how to make the player show up here.

Vic, listened to a bunch of Nilsson last night and no way can I keep my list at ten favorites. Feel free to expand on yours to 15 or even 20. I found some nice Harry stuff online. The documentary that this thread is named for and this link below, Harrys only "full length LIVE recording"-so says this blogger. Harry didn't play out much, thats a fact. After watching bits of the video (pretty bad quality but watchable) I don't agree with the bloggers interpretation of the words exchanged between Harry and Gordon Jenkins. And one thing I noticed: Harry, singing with that freakin awesome voice, smoking cigarettes throughout the session, as well as many orchestra members smoking cigs, cigars, who knows what else. How could Harry smoke WHILE singing? When I played out I'd cut the smoking a half hour before the show and have a cup of tea w/honey. Never smoked during the gig. I really think that its possible that Harry thought his voice was too beautiful for his own good and wanted to make it a more rockin kinda voice like Lennon or Plant. While I was doing things to try and make my voice as good as possible, Nilsson was doing things to make his voice less beautiful. But he still sounded like a million bucks in this live BBC broadcast: http://fortheloveofharrynilsson.blogspot.com/2011/03/live-on-bbc-little-touch-of-schmilsson.html I hope to watch WHO IS HARRY NILSSON tonight.

My top 10 (in no order): Spaceman Best Friend Think About Your Troubles Old Forgotten Soldier You're breakin my heart I Guess the Lord Must Be in New York City Simon Smith and the Amazing Dancing Bear Without You Everybody's Talkin' One My list will be similar in that some here may not have heard of many of them. I'm I big Harry fan and I'll still have to go check out Old Forgotten Soldier because I don't remember that one at all. Also: Without You, Everybody's Talking, & One are such great songs but I'll be hard pressed to get all 3 in my top ten. Took a listen to my old cover of TAYTroubles and it's better then I remembered. It don't suck. It's way too long tho. Five minutes with 3 of those minutes me howling like a dog. I'll take it into my music editor and try to shave it down to 3 mins.

ha. I don't even have to think about my #1 fav of his. I recorded a version of me doing this song a long time ago, using two cassette players to get a double track effect. It's really awful and embarrassing but I still might share it with you guys here. 1. Think About Your Troubles (from The Point) 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10.

I have a CD collection that a childhood friend from NYC sent me some time ago, and I think its everything he ever did. That's not on the drive atm but this stuff is. I wanted to name my fav Harry song, but I would be very hard pressed to do that. I couldn't do it. I love too much of his stuff. I'm going to listen to Harry this week and return here with my top ten favorite HarryTunes.

I must have been on hiatus. I do recall some time ago sharing a song Harry wrote and I performed called Little Cowboy, here at the CPF. I recorded this for my son when he was a baby. I don't think I can link it w/o linking all my music stuff at ReverbNation. I don't have a great voice. I can hold a tune. But Harry, in his prime he had a singing voice to die for. Even after he blew out his chords he could sing way better than most. Harry used to make appearances at Beatlefests (after we lost John) in support of gun control. OE: so the poll: is this like a rating? 5 is best? OEOE: OH, I never look in this section. Afraid of spoilers.

Saw West Side Story last night. First time in around 20 years. That should be on the list. Some will say it hasn't aged well but I feel the opposite. It perfectly reflects its time. And that long opening number, where they dance thru the streets... yea, looks odd and gayish, but no more so than it did in 1961.

Didn't see this in the theaters. Did on DVD like 2 months ago. With all I've read and seen about it I have to say it was all they said it was. Not like a top ten of all time flick though - I gave it 4 and a half stars. Even with its cliche-ness and how it could be said its just a CGI version of other tales, it was all they said it was. I expected the CGI to be distracting if only for some fleeting and more difficult scenes. After viewing, to the point where it goes CGI and foward, I can truthfully say after 2 minutes I forgot I was watching CGI and allowed myself to be stunned by its beauty. I'm the kind of guy that prefers escapism when it comes to movies and TV, and this surely allowed me a little get-away.

Nymr83 wrote: does anyone play Sim Dynasty? i'm just getting back into that now with a free trial league after years away I'll check it out. Im looking for a new game. At least until WoW/Blizz releases Cataclysm.

Im not sure where to post this but I figure its a game, so here is okay. This is a pretty kool free online baseball game. You can play online against your friends and vs. anyone else playing the game. Its very arcade like, but it also contains some depth and micro-management. You are required to register at their website to play. Here are some reviews. Some things said are good, some bad. Mostly good. (you may have to select the FULL REVIEW tab on linked site) And comon, its free. http://pc.ign.com/articles/979/979914p1.html http://mmohub.org/game/mlb-dugout-heroes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLB_Dugout_Heroes The Game: http://mlbdugoutheroes.gamescampus.com/ Management, if you don't want this in this section feel free to move it. And if someone else has already made a post regarding this game I'm sorry. I found this game from a link at joepets journal page.

themetfairy wrote: So...., who's watching the Watchmen? The latest trailer: http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/watchmen.html?showVideo=1 My daughter cannot wait for it to come out. Same with my son, lol. Whenever there's a new preview that's all he can talk about for days. I've always been a comic fan but Watchman somehow got under my radar back in '86. I must have been all up in the Dark Knight Returns. I wanted to see what it was all about so I recently got the .cbr files (for viewing comics on a PC) of the entire graphic novel series. (btw, they are just coming out with "Motion Comic" versions of these-i think 1-4 have been released. Can find em on itunes I think) I was pretty much blown away by it. The complexity of the characters, the alternate view of history (Nixon WAS the one TWICE!), and the fantastic plot created by Alan Moore was a totally singular experience. So I have to admit I'm pretty pumped for the movie myself.

So...., who's watching the Watchmen? The latest trailer: http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/watchmen.html?showVideo=1

seawolf17 wrote: Wait! Sorry Val. I get you and Zvon confused sometimes. My bad. You consider my observations, questions and opinions "bitching" ? Cripes. Tough crowd. FK: Reyes is a done deal. Edgy has it. Ill make a Beltran during tonights games.

That does make me understand a lot better MM.And it makes sense. Thanks for your explanation.

Edgy DC wrote: They are re-evaluated. Feel free to go the rankings forum and add your voice to any season in which Trachs is ranked. The new list is factored in by everybody having his rank (the top guy getting a rank of 30) squared, multiplied by 88 (Met wins), divided by 10 (to chop a zero off the end, every score is divided by 10). This year's top player, presumably Wright, gets (30^2)*88/10 points added to his all-time total. That's 7,920 points, about the difference between David Cone and John Milner. wow. very interesting. very kool. I will go check that out. Thanks

Edgy DC wrote: Zvon wrote: I suppose thats something. But we are talking about all-time Mets. Clearly, that's why I quoted his all-time ranking As a Met he went 66-59. Hey, maybe as far as pitching goes that's top 50 material. What's top-50 material? Are there 20 more accomplished pitchers? Not in my book, but this isn't my book we go by. It's a book written on consensus. In the post season he started 2 games and lasted a total of 4.1 innings with a 14.54 ERA. That sucks. It's also a small sample. To me, this really effects his standings in relation to what he accomplished for my team. Nobody goes backwards. That doesn't make sense. It's a cumulative total. Those two small samples were his two biggest assignments in a Met uniform. I'm all for the consensus method. I'm simply stating my opinion. In reference to pitchers in Met history I'm not sure what top 50 material is. Where is the current overall list, I'd like to take a look at it. My point is that as far as overall all-time Mets go, older non active players should be able to be re-evaluated as to their place. Not simply brushed aside for current crop. Just sayin.... How is this new list factored in to the existing list?

Valadius wrote: Um... Z? Are you seriously leaving out Aaron Heilman? That is a mistake. I did some last minute changes and I knew id screw up. He was pretty high on my list too. Ill fix that--thanks Val On edit: I first wrote up a list off the top of my head. Then I typed it up. Then I went to take a look at the seasonal stats, which compelled me to make some changes. Conine got bumped.

30- Wright 29- Maine 28- Beltran 27- Perez 26- Reyes 25- Alou 24- LoDuca 23- Delgado 22- Wagner 21- Glavine 20- Green 19- Hernandez 18- Heilman 17- Sosa 16- Chavez 15- Castillo 14- Feliciano 13- Easley 12- Castro 11- Milledge 10- Smith 9 - Martinez 8 - Gotay 7 - Mota 6 - Schoenweis 5 - Anderson 4 - Valentin 3 - Pelfrey 2 - Gomez 1 - Sele Fixed on edit.

metsmarathon wrote: name 50 or more mets who should be ranked more highly than trachsel. ....ask me a more ridiculous question.

I suppose thats something. But we are talking about all-time Mets. As a Met he went 66-59. Hey, maybe as far as pitching goes that's top 50 material. Not in my book, but this isn't my book we go by. In the post season he started 2 games and lasted a total of 4.1 innings with a 14.54 ERA. To me, this really effects his standings in relation to what he accomplished for my team.

Edgy DC wrote: The only way to move up is for us to reconsider a past year. But obviously, your legacy is in place when you're done playing. The best you can do is hope hold your place for a long time. Oh. So that's how someone like Trachsel ends up being a top 50 all time Met. Hmmmm... Don't seem right to me but I'm just along for the ride. WEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeee~~~~~~~~~~~~

Frayed Knot wrote: Eventually we arrive at some sort of consensus and put that "into the books" as our official 2007 ranking. Said ranking will be combined with the ones we did for the previous 45 seasons which creates the overall player list of best ever Mets which is where those names connected to your posting levels come from. How do older non active players get to move up this list? Or do they?