Ceetar

="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys.

If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.

I vote for the Mets, biased as it is, solely to see them represented. And it does help, when Fox announcers and the like are looking at stuff, they remember them for being on the All-Star team. Where I don't vote for the Mets, I peruse the standings and vote for whoever has the best chance at beating a Philly. Same goes on the AL side. I vote for whoever has a chance to beat out a Yankee.

My biggest regret of my college days were not going to a Bisons game. As odd as it seems now, baseball just wasn't at the top of my priority lists, and I didn't end up making baseball friends to watch with. Now i'm regretting not seeing the Bisons, the Batavia..whatever they ares, and the Rochester team. Not to mention the Blue Jays and sorta kinda close Indians. I did walk around the park once in the winter. It looked like an okay place to watch a game. It's real real close to the Erie Canal. well, not really. close to lake Erie pre-canal. Pretty there though.

Nymr83 wrote: ="Swan Swan H"]Hermida's third hit is a three-run homer sending Redding to the showers, and from there who knows where. Buffalo. Get me Ollie.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: NFN, but Wright certainly looked last night like he could use a rest. Didn't he have a 'rest' on Thursday? Did Castillo look like he needed a rest?

Manuel's telling you he's mailing this one in. is it just me, or does the Tatis 'magic' from last year, look exposed when he's playing as frequently as he has?

="Nymr83":v36lgeoq]i've been at the point for awhile now where mets/yankees means less to me than mets/[any above .500 NL team], so i'd rather they bump this to 8:00 than bump a mets/phillies game (like sun july 5th), though with our luck they'll do both[/quote:v36lgeoq] Mets/Yanks has lost some, but still more exciting than just about any other team. I kinda wish they _had_ bumped the july 5th game and scheduled the makeup for the day. I want to catch a game there this season and hitting two for the trip seemed like fun. (It was in '07 for sure, we swept it) bmfc1 May 29 2009 09:47 AM You're right, Ceetar. I guess ESPN didn't want the Mets/MFPs on July 5. MLB could have had a day/night DH on July 3, as they did in '07, but the MFP's have a night game out-of-town the night before. The way the schedule stands, if it rains all day on September 13 and 14 (both teams are off on the 14th), there will be problems. I wonder why they didn't use the open day of Sept. 14 for the make-up (perhaps it would have run afoul of the rules concerning number of consecutive games).

Getting Johan didn't work for a better Mets team last year. Even if the Phillies could pull of Halladay (they can't), it wouldn't be enough. There issues run a lot deeper than one SP can fix.

Gwreck wrote: Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument there...this is Tatis' second start in the last week. He started last night, and before then, on Monday the 18th. Well what do you know. He started yesterday. and he's starting again today. again. fact. Is Murphy an everyday player or not? He's not hitting worse than Tatis. He's _definitely_ not fielding worse than Tatis. He has more potential than Tatis. If he's going to be our 1B, he should probably play it as much as possible.

And no Murphy _again_ what does Tatis have on Manuel anyway?

I normally don't care about which uniform/hat/color scheme is going on, but..Red? I periodically was flipping on MLB Network and I thought even the Yankees looked silly in red caps. I'm sure the Mets will look even worse.

="Edgy DC":3tj6rvgg]I had noticed Florida fading (kinda sad), but I hadn't noticed Atlanta sneaking into the picture. I should've, considering how they played us last time in Flushing.[/quote:3tj6rvgg] I picked the Braves over and the Phillies under before the season. Just judging them on how they looked on SNY when they played us? the Braves are the better team. Edgy DC May 25 2009 09:04 PM Folks have been standing still the last two days, except Florida. TeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #Philadelphia2419.558------New York2420.5450.50.5119Atlanta2321.5231.52.5118Florida2125.4574.510.5115Washington1331.29511.539.5110 Edgy DC May 27 2009 09:57 PM Ahem. TeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #New York2620.565---------Philadelphia2520.5560.50.5117Atlanta2322.5112.54.5115Florida2226.4585.012.0111Washington1333.28313.041.0104 Elsewhere, we still have the same record as Cincinnati, and the Blue Jays are playing like chumps and better stop. Benjamin Grimm May 28 2009 05:19 AM Given all the struggles the Mets have had this season, the injuries and that daunting road trip, first place on May 28, and six games above .500 is awfully darn good. Hopefully they beat up on the Pirates and Nationals on the next road trip and start opening up a bit of a lead. Triple Dee May 28 2009 05:36 AM By the same token, the Phils are within 0.5 game without a starting pitcher with an era <4.50 (QS standard) and a closer with a serious case of the yips. I'll be very surprised if the NL WC comes from the East. Triple Dee May 28 2009 05:49 AM ="Edgy DC":31o8fwpe] ...., and the Blue Jays are playing like chumps and better stop.[/quote:31o8fwpe] Unhealthy BJs could be bad news for the Mets. If they rapidly fall out of contention, Halliday may be put on the trading bloc(k). There's no way he'll be traded to the Red Sox or Yanquis, which is likely to make the Phils the number one suitors. Ceetar May 28 2009 06:37 AM Getting Johan didn't work for a better Mets team last year. Even if the Phillies could pull of Halladay (they can't), it wouldn't be enough. There issues run a lot deeper than one SP can fix. soupcan May 28 2009 06:45 AM ="Triple Dee":16wgdhxn]Unhealthy BJs could be bad news for the Mets. If they rapidly fall out of contention, Halliday may be put on the trading bloc(k). There's no way he'll be traded to the Red Sox or Yanquis, which is likely to make the Phils the number one suitors.[/quote:16wgdhxn] Well, I'm certain Fman would agree with me when I say that unhealthy BJs are just bad news all-around, but even if the Phils are the most likely suitor that doesn't necessarily mean Halliday is theirs for the taking. If I'm the BJs I'm looking for a lot for Roy. Do the Phillies have what it would take? I would think it would take young, proven ML talent at least. Benjamin Grimm May 28 2009 06:52 AM And remember, it was the White Sox who almost closed a deal for Peavy. They seem to be big players in the starting pitcher market. If I'm shopping a starting pitcher, they'd be among the first teams I'd call. Fman99 May 28 2009 06:56 AM ="Triple Dee"]="Edgy DC"] ...., and the Blue Jays are playing like chumps and better stop. Unhealthy BJs could be bad news for the Mets. Too much teeth? Triple Dee May 28 2009 08:39 AM (My apologies for hijacking the Standings thread, maybe these posts should be moved to another thread.) ="soupcan":24grmrc0] but even if the Phils are the most likely suitor that doesn't necessarily mean Halliday is theirs for the taking. If I'm the BJs I'm looking for a lot for Roy. Do the Phillies have what it would take? I would think it would take young, proven ML talent at least. [/quote:24grmrc0] You're right, presently they probably don't have enough for Halliday. Their top pitching prospect, Carlos Carrasco is having a pretty bad time in AAA. They have Kyle Drabek (presumably Doug's son?) who is highly regarded but he's playing A ball . Other than they have some decent OF which the BJs don't need. ="BG":24grmrc0] And remember, it was the White Sox who almost closed a deal for Peavy. They seem to be big players in the starting pitcher market. [/quote:24grmrc0] The ChiSox probably need starting pitching help now. I suspect by the time the BJ's would want to deal Halliday, they'll be as far out as they are. ="Fman99":24grmrc0] Too much teeth? [/quote:24grmrc0] Gutter. smg58 May 28 2009 01:35 PM ="Triple Dee":20e91cie]Unhealthy BJs could be bad news for the Phils. If they rapidly fall out of contention, Halliday may be put on the trading bloc(k). There's no way he'll be traded to the Red Sox or Yanquis, which is likely to make the Mets the number one suitors.[/quote:20e91cie] There, that's better. In all seriousness, if Halladay and/or Cliff Lee go on the block we can't cry poverty. Edgy DC Jun 02 2009 02:13 PM NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #Philadelphia2920.592---------New York2822.5601.51.5112Atlanta2525.5004.57.5109Florida2428.4626.513.5106Washington1336.2651651.598 Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2009 04:49 AM I know we all pretend to be disinterested in the Wild Card (until, of course, it's the last weekend of the season and the division has been clinched and we desperately want the Wild Card) but the Mets are currently in a virtual tie for the WC lead with St. Louis. (They're actually .001 ahead.) Just thought I'd mention it. Frayed Knot Jun 08 2009 07:43 AM It helps that whilst Met fans wuz crying over the sweep in Pittsburgh and deeming barely acceptable their 2 of 3 over the Nats (and ranting about how good teams "don't let that happen", etc) the Cards were getting swept by the Rockies. Frayed Knot Jun 08 2009 03:00 PM BTW, that Cards-Rox series which I assumed was a 3-game sweep, wasn't. It was actually a 4-game series with the getaway game today ... and now it's a 4-game sweep by the Rockies. And in StL too. Edgy DC Jun 08 2009 07:32 PM NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #Philadelphia3322.600---------New York3025.5453.03.0105Atlanta2728.4916.09.0102Florida2731.4667.513.599Washington1540.27318.055.590NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #New York3025.545---------St. Louis3127.5340.50.5105San Francisco2926.5271.01.5106Chicago2826.5191.53.0106Cincinnati2927.5181.53.0105Atlanta2728.4913.010.5104Florida2731.4664.519.0101Pttsburgh2630.4644.519.0102San Diego2630.4644.519.0102Houston2530.4555.024.0102Arizona2532.4396.034.0101Colorado2532.4396.034.0101Washington1540.27315.0142.092 Edgy DC Jun 15 2009 08:38 PM Florida is making another small move in the east, while the Mets have relinquished the wild card for now. Colrado has absolutely exploded, knocking a ton of net games back off as they move from next to last to the middle of the pack. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #Philadelphia3625.590---------New York3229.5254.04.098Florida3233.4926.08.094Atlanta3032.4826.59.595Washington1645.26220.063.582NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #San Francisco3428.548---------St. Louis3430.5311.01.099New York3229.5251.52.0100Cincinnati3131.5003.06.598Chicago3030.5003.06.599Florida3233.4923.59.096Colorado3132.4923.59.0101Atlanta3032.4824.011.597Pttsburgh3033.4764.516.596Houston2932.4754.516.597San Diego2834.4526.031.595Arizona2737.4228.053.592Washington1645.26217.5167.584 Willets Point Jun 15 2009 10:02 PM All thing considered, 4 GB in mid-June ain't too shabby. Gwreck Jun 15 2009 11:01 PM The Phillies aren't as good as they were last year (particularly Lidge and Rollins). I can certainly see the Mets passing them, maybe with a Philly injury and the Mets getting some players back. Edgy DC Jun 16 2009 05:30 AM The Mets have turn it on, though. One way, and not a crazy one, of looking at "The Phillies aren't as good as they were last year (particularly Lidge and Rollins)," is to realize the Phils sure have the potential to get better. Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2009 12:36 PM ="metirish (in another thread)":20pgmzma]With 101 games to go what would the Mets need to do realistically the rest of the way? After they fired Willie they went 55-38 in the remaining 93 games . Need to win 60 games?[/quote:20pgmzma] I haven't done this yet this year, but here's what Baseball Prospectus is currently saying: Average wins by position in NL East: 92.7 86.4 80.7 74.6 61.7 92.8 NL East W L Pct3 Avg W Avg L Champions Wild Card Playoffs 1D Change 7D Change Phillies 36 25 .514 88.8 73.2 46.66633 14.85141 61.51774 .04575 -1.48791 Mets 32 29 .544 87.7 74.3 41.41762 13.35543 54.77305 .17262 -0.79291 Marlins 32 33 .485 79.3 82.7 6.56945 4.60971 11.17916 .04267 6.61307 Braves 30 32 .485 78.1 83.9 5.33545 3.61399 8.94944 .10715 -7.83416 Nationals 16 45 .456 62.1 99.9 .01115 .00837 .01952 -0.00110 -0.04799 The Dodgers are at 97.4% for the playoffs, 94.3 for the division. The most likely wild card team is Colorado, currently in 3rd place, with 17.4%. (Phillies are the second most likely wild card, followed by the Mets and the Giants.) In the American League, the Red Sox score highest, at 77.8% for the playoffs. Yankees are at 47.0%. They both are about equal for the wild card (at 26 to 27 per cent), but the Red Sox are way ahead for the division, leading 50.4% to 20.6%. I can see why that Orioles fan is boasting, by the way. His team's chances: .05655 division .22353 wild card .28008 overall. HahnSolo Jun 16 2009 12:45 PM Oh, god no, not the BP projections! I vowed not to read these after absorbing them for 2 straight Septembers. have mercy on me, Grimm. Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2009 12:53 PM Don't worry, I have no plans to make this a daily feature... yet. I have my doubts right now that the Mets will be involved in a gripping September pennant race anyway. Ashie62 Jun 17 2009 04:52 AM BP Over 50/50 shot...Was kinda hoping for 80 percent wire to wire..Probably asking to much on my end John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 17 2009 05:36 AM Picked up a game on the whole division last nite. Centerfield Jun 17 2009 07:17 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":wvotfwll]Don't worry, I have no plans to make this a daily feature... yet. I have my doubts right now that the Mets will be involved in a gripping September pennant race anyway.[/quote:wvotfwll] You think they're gonna run away with the division? Wow, that's some confidence. Benjamin Grimm Jun 25 2009 01:56 PM One game out of first place. If Tampa Bay does us a favor tonight, it'll be only a half. Perhaps the Mets will leave Philadelphia in first place next week. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 25 2009 01:58 PM We got a cupcake at home coming up, I don't see how we could get out of this weekend not in first. Edgy DC Jun 25 2009 10:51 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2009 07:51 AM The whole field has truncated since the last update, with expansion brethren Colorado and Florida heating up the most. Even Washington has gained some ground. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #Philadelphia3733.529---------New York3734.5210.50.592Florida3836.5141.01.590Atlanta3438.4724.010.588Washington2149.30016.058.577 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #San Francisco3932.549---------Milwaukee3834.5281.51.499New York3734.5212.02.590Colorado3735.5142.54.089Florida3836.5142.54.088Cincinnati3536.4934.011.588Chicago3435.4934.011.589Atlanta3438.4725.522.086Houston3337.4715.522.087Pttsburgh3339.4586.531.085San Diego3140.4378.050.584Arizona3042.4179.562.582Washington2149.30017.5158.575 Willets Point Jun 25 2009 11:11 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":3i3p78g1]Perhaps the Mets will leave Philadelphia in first place next week.[/quote:3i3p78g1] That can be interpreted in two different ways: 1. The Mets will depart the city of Philadelphia having gained first place for themselves. 2. The Mets will lose and thus the team from Philadelphia will remain in sole possession of first place. Gwreck Jun 25 2009 11:31 PM Which do you think it is? Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2009 05:45 AM Let me rephrase then... Perhaps the Mets, upon their departure from Philadelphia next week, will find themselves with the best record in the National League East. Edgy DC Jun 26 2009 08:45 PM Hey, we're in first place. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 06:11 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 07 2009 07:18 AM Wow, I haven't posted since the Mets were in first. The good news is that, in the day and a half since the Mets last played (and lost), they have passed two teams (one intradivision) in the standings. The bad news is that the sterategy of moving ahead by not playing isn't very sustainable. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia4337.538---------48.17926Florida4341.5122.02.07918.79686New York3942.4814.57.07821.36100Atlanta3943.4765.08.57711.65843Washington2455.30419.064.5640.00446 NL Wildcard TeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsSan Francisco4537.549---------24.55501Colorado4339.5242.02.07936.45378Milwaukee4339.5242.02.0795.20361Florida4139.5133.05.0792.99581Chicago4341.5123.05.0773.12304Cincinnati4041.4944.512.5771.71817Houston4041.4944.512.5771.13201New York3942.4815.519.5763.12304Atlanta3943.4766.023.5752.08225Pttsburgh3746.4468.546.0720.56024San Diego3547.42710.061.0710.14075Arizona3449.41011.577.5690.26129Washington2456.30020.0179.5620.00053 Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2009 06:51 AM Yikes... eighth place in the Wild Card race? Just a few weeks ago they were in first or second. Things look pretty grim, but not so bad that a sustained hot streak wouldn't cure. But is this team capable of a sustained hot streak? Sure doesn't look like it. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 07:22 AM The overlooked here continues to be the turnabout Colorado had had over the last few weeks. I ain't telling you what to believe, but if you want to still root, take it one team at a time. Root for the Mets, and root like heck against Houston. Once they pass Houston, the Astros become the Mets allies in helping them pick off the teams ahead. I'm not going to tell you it's not a slog ahead. TransMonk Jul 08 2009 08:07 AM 39-43. This is the first time the Mets have been 4 games under .500 since 9/17/05. metirish Jul 08 2009 08:09 AM The Mets are losers of nine of their last eleven games. I expect to be in fourth place in the next few days. Edgy DC Jul 13 2009 08:23 AM The pattern of fortune's vunlerability to change dramatically each day in the NL East lends an air of bigitude to the Mets upcoming series with the Braves. Is anybody in the press noticing the extended surge of the Rockies? Look how dramatically they lead without leading in the wildcard race. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia4838.558---------60.36533Florida4644.5114.04.07115.70618Atlanta4345.4896.08.07012.38783New York4245.4836.59.57011.54009Washington2661.29922.573.5540.00058 NL Wildcard TeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsSan Francisco4939.557---------27.11857Colorado4741.5342.02.07345.51423Milwaukee4543.5114.06.0712.96857Florida4644.5114.06.0403.00459Chicago4343.5005.010.0713.18395Houston4444.5005.010.0700.71723Atlanta4345.4896.016.0691.13201Cincinnati4245.4836.519.5690.68224New York4245.4836.519.5692.23495Pttsburgh3850.43211.060.0640.12630Arizona3851.42711.565.0620.19441San Diego3652.40913.081.5620.01837Washington2661.29922.5195.5530.00010 Nymr83 Jul 13 2009 08:50 AM ]Washington 26 61 .299 22.5 73.5 54 0.00058 so they'll win the division 6 times out of 1,000,000? that takes into account the chances that they trade for Albert Pujols, Tim Lincecum, Hanley Ramirez, Manny Ramirez, Dustin Pedroia, Evan Longoria, and Zack Greinke all before the end of the day, right? Edgy DC Jul 13 2009 08:56 AM Plague years, I believe. Nymr83 Jul 13 2009 08:59 AM I also did not take into account the chances that the Mets, Braves, Marlins, and Phillies would all get paid off to lose the rest of their games. Edgy DC Jul 27 2009 02:02 PM Chicago --- recently compared to the Mets as far as being disappointing --- has re-asserted themselves and edged ahead of the Cards, thought St. Louis still is shown as more likely to win the division according to Baseball Prospectus. The Mets series win helped put a brake on a long streaking period by Houston climbing the standings, and it also allowed them to pass Cincinnati. So the Reds are now one of the teams you are allowed to root for. Milwaukee is sliding and their the next team we are looking for the Mets to pick off. Washington is eliminated from both races to the fifth decimal place of a percentage point. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia5640.583---------71.92603Atlanta5148.5156.56.55918.94809Florida5148.5156.56.5596.65038New York4651.47410.518.5562.47551Washington3068.30627.084.5390.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsColorado5444.551---------58.03895San Francisco5246.5312.02.0639.07787St. Louis5348.5252.53.0613.54684Atlanta5148.5153.56.0618.31609Florida5148.5153.56.0613.47697Houston5048.5104.08.5610.87862Milwaukee4949.5005.014.5600.89282New York4651.4747.532.0580.37380Cincinnati4453.4549.548.0560.07017Pttsburgh4355.43911.061.5540.02579Arizona4356.43411.566.5530.09422San Diego3861.38416.5121.5480.00010Washington3068.30624.0211.5410.00000 Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 07:45 AM Not a lot of movement during the series, except, you know, the Mets knocked Colorado off the top perch in the Wild Card race. No matter, says Baseball Prospectus, who is still doubling down on the Rockies. The Mets are only a game closer to the top, but cut their net gap from 32 to 26, so that's good. Similarly, they pulled three games closer in the Net column in the division race, such as it is. In other words, this run has been nice, but it has to be sustained to be meaningful. Catching Milwaukee and/or Houston over the next few days would be very meaningful. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia5842.580---------73.50793Florida5349.5206.06.0568.16545Atlanta5250.5107.08.05515.18698New York4952.4859.515.5533.13963Washington3270.31427.085.5350.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsSan Francisco5646.549---------18.97177Colorado5547.5391.01.06045.52084St. Louis5649.5331.52.0586.05652Florida5349.5203.06.5584.07728Atlanta5250.5104.010.5576.77887Houston5151.5005.015.5560.65272Milwaukee5151.5005.015.5560.78867New York4952.4856.526.0550.62566Cincinnati4556.44610.558.0510.01369Arizona4458.43112.071.5490.04786Pttsburgh4358.42612.576.5490.00565San Diego4162.39815.5109.5450.00005Washington3270.31424.0211.5370.00000 Edgy DC Aug 04 2009 12:41 PM NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia5640.583---------74.89575Atlanta5148.5156.56.55913.43997Florida5148.5156.56.55910.06658New York4651.47410.518.5561.59770Washington3068.30627.084.5390.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsColorado5444.551---------58.95294San Francisco5246.5312.02.06316.21132St. Louis5348.5252.53.0613.44353Atlanta5148.5153.56.0612.64151Florida5148.5153.56.0613.85554Houston5048.5104.08.5610.39682Milwaukee4949.5005.014.5600.44886New York4651.4747.532.0580.12738Cincinnati4453.4549.548.0560.00121Pttsburgh4355.43911.061.5540.00172Arizona4356.43411.566.5530.06649San Diego3861.38416.5121.5480.00031Washington3068.30624.0211.5410.00000 Net Met Post-Season Likelihood: 1.47032% Ashie62 Aug 04 2009 12:50 PM ="metirish":37imwhfz]The Mets are losers of nine of their last eleven games. I expect to be in fourth place in the next few days.[/quote:37imwhfz] We have a winner! Give the man a set of steaknives TransMonk Aug 04 2009 12:51 PM ="Edgy DC":1wacunne] Net Met Post-Season Likelihood: 1.47032%[/quote:1wacunne] Met Post-Season Likelihood on Sept 12, 2007: 99.80% Stranger things have happened. Stranger and far more depressing. Ashie62 Aug 04 2009 01:00 PM ="TransMonk":1oi9gbzs]="Edgy DC":1oi9gbzs] Net Met Post-Season Likelihood: 1.47032%[/quote:1oi9gbzs] Met Post-Season Likelihood on Sept 12, 2007: 99.80% Stranger things have happened. Stranger and far more depressing.[/quote:1oi9gbzs] Wow** Strangely that just made my day. After all they are the Amazin Mets Edgy DC Aug 06 2009 08:06 AM Well, that lousy loss the night before last burns the Mets badly as their net post-season odds dip toward the 1% mark. Milwaukee moves up a bit, so the Mets have to eye Houston first, but you know, the Fish are slipping also. San Fran re-takes the top wildcard slot, but Baseball Prospectus still is totally not impressed. They love the Rocks. San Diego joins the Nats among teams not shouldered with the burden of a visible post-season possiblity. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia6045.571---------75.75257Florida5552.5146.06.0519.14475Atlanta5553.5096.57.05014.03328New York5156.47710.017.5471.06940Washington3672.33325.579.5310.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsSan Francisco6048.556---------22.82055Colorado5948.5510.50.55554.46296St. Louis5951.5362.03.5542.71764Florida5552.5144.511.0522.38452Atlanta5553.5095.013.0513.43947Milwaukee5454.5006.018.0500.41470Houston5355.4917.024.0480.11615New York5156.4778.534.5470.27858Arizona4959.45411.054.5440.11468Cincinnati4661.43013.577.0420.00048Pttsburgh4562.42114.587.0410.00063San Diego4465.40416.5109.0380.00000Washington3672.33324.0199.0310.00000 Edgy DC Aug 10 2009 07:57 PM The Mets are Santa Claus right now, giving hope to all the poor children, first Arizona, then San Diego, who actually has come back from having no chance of winning within five decimal places of a percentage point. Mercy. Not so resuscitated is Washington, who despite winning a fuky eight straight, still aren't showing any numbers but goose eggs, but they've closed their wild card gap from 199 net games to 173. Another seven months at this pace and who knows? Normally I'd cheer the Nats onward, reasoning that any success by a team behind the Mets in the standings helps the Mets pick off opponents, but this week stank so solidly that I view Washington's success as a threat by them to somehow catch the Mets in the standings. Show me something, SHaMs. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia6148.560---------58.10719Florida5853.5234.04.04915.91526Atlanta5854.5184.55.04825.56209New York5259.46810.021.5430.41546Washington4072.35722.571.5300.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsColorado6150.550---------51.36310San Francisco6150.550---------18.00222Chicago5851.5322.04.0514.56220Florida5853.5233.07.0493.87031Atlanta5854.5183.59.0484.75462Houston5556.4956.021.5460.16014Milwaukee5556.4956.021.5460.41311New York5259.4689.042.5430.08468Arizona5062.44611.562.5400.03717Cincinnati4862.43612.571.5400.00078San Diego4766.41615.096.5360.00003Pttsburgh4566.40516.0107.5360.00000Washington4072.35721.5173.5300.00000 Elster88 Aug 10 2009 08:55 PM ]I view Washington's success as a threat by them to somehow catch the Mets in the standings. That just depressed the hell out of me. duan Aug 11 2009 05:34 AM i don't know every time they look like they *just might* put something together that'd mean they'd claw their way TOWARDS being at least able to duke it out in September they lose two straight and fall back off. I'm still cool with saying if they go 13-6 or something in the remaining August games they'll be well in it, but there's only so many times they can fail to actually have one of those runs and still be able to put enough of them together. We've really missed a healthy John Maine. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 11 2009 12:06 PM Re: i don't know ="duan":exl5k9ys]We've really missed a healthy John Maine.[/quote:exl5k9ys] Since mid-2007. Edgy DC Aug 11 2009 12:53 PM We've missed three batsmen a bunch more though. duan Aug 11 2009 05:08 PM ="Edgy DC":20movskg]We've missed three batsmen a bunch more though.[/quote:20movskg] totally, it's just that Pelfrey & Hernandez seem to alternate good & bad outings and whoever's in the 4th & 5th slots is usually pretty junky so on the days where we don't score 7 runs we lose more then half the time. I sorta feel if we just had one more stable starter we'd be close to .500 now and if the batters came back could make a go of it.

and another. They should think about signing Bonds. I'm sure he can still DH and pop up to RF for 85+ HR.

I'm okay with the Reyes one, because any extra days of Reyes is worth it. And Delgado they thought they were going to have to do 3-4 days off regularly. Putz doesn't add a significant amount though. Especially considering 10 days would only actually be 4-5 innings anyway. ="Benjamin Grimm":2keqyn46]Well, they don't want to lose Reyes for two weeks if he'll only be injured for one. I understand the desire, but too often it turns out to be two weeks anyway. The move I'd make right now is to demote Martinez and promote someone who can field the shortstop position. I don't know if there's really reason to think that Reyes will or won't be able to play by Monday or Tuesday, so I can't say whether they're making the wrong move by not putting him on the DL. I guess we'll find out soon enough.[/quote:2keqyn46] Edgy DC May 23 2009 10:26 AM They have eight guys in the pen and are now playing an AL team. After using only two relievers last night, I've little doubt they can get through the next two days and re-assess, if necessary. smg58 May 23 2009 08:48 PM "Indefinitely" turned out not to be very long. Given that Rodriguez couldn't have gone, that's a relief.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":10pdvk6v]I think we got enough to drag down the Phillies on our own when the time comes so I hope they murder the MFYs and that Howard and Utley hit 5 HRs each into that joke RF.[/quote:10pdvk6v] I can't actually root _for_ the Phillies, but I think them winning is the best way to achieve the desired result of neither of those two teams in the playoffs. If the Yankees were still around .500, it'd be easier to root for them in this series, but they're hot, and them winning 12 or even 11/12 just rubs me the wrong way. I hope Howard and Utley (And A-Rod and Swisher etc) get tired arms hitting 45+ home runs this weekend. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone break the 5 HR/game record at that place with that pitching. Kong76 May 22 2009 05:03 PM I'd like the Mets to sweep and the Phillies to sweep ... won't hurt us in the standings. Then I wanna hear Fatcessa's opening comments on Mon (he's prolly off) or Tues. Lot to ask, but what the hay. PiggiesTomatoes May 22 2009 05:06 PM NO way I'd root for the MFY's but I'd love the MFPs to lose. I like the comet idea. Swan Swan H May 22 2009 05:11 PM Rollins hits a routine fly to right on Burnett's first pitch, but at the Big Post Office in the Bronx it's a home run. He then hits Utley on the first pitch to him. There may be 50 runs scored in this series. Swan Swan H May 22 2009 05:45 PM Ruiz leaves the BPOitB, and it-s 3-0 Phillies. Myers just threw some sort of slop to Swisher, who hacked at it like a guy trying to snake an overflowing toilet. Zvon May 22 2009 06:16 PM How could you not be rooting for the Skanks to trample the Phils here? I don't understand this. The Met's need to hang close and they are hurtin. I don't give a rats ass what the Skankees (or any A.L. team) do generally but in this series I want them to pwn Philly. Especially since we are playin Boston, a very good team. I have the Phils game on here. Brett Myers is throwing well through four. Has good stuff. Swan Swan H May 22 2009 06:25 PM If the Mets can't win it on their own they don't deserve it. I want the Yankees to lose in a humiliating fashion 162 times a year, whether they are playing the Phillies, the Braves or The Manson Family All-Stars. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 22 2009 06:29 PM ="Swan Swan H":x7syuuzo]If the Mets can't win it on their own they don't deserve it. I want the Yankees to lose in a humiliating fashion 162 times a year, whether they are playing the Phillies, the Braves or The Manson Family All-Stars.[/quote:x7syuuzo] Finally someone here who Gets It. Swan Swan H May 22 2009 06:30 PM More Philly kaboomage, as a 2-run Werth shot makes it 5-0. Kong76 May 22 2009 06:31 PM Z: How could you not be rooting for the Skanks to trample the Phils here? <<< Easy ... say it with me ... Let's Go Phillies! .... Yankees Suck! Rinse, repeat. In my scenario the Mets need to win in Boston ... so far so good. Zvon May 22 2009 06:48 PM I would like the Mets to win everywhere. And the Phils (and Atlanta and Florida) to lose everywhere. Simple as that. A-Rod goes yard with no-one on. 5-1 Kong76 May 22 2009 06:51 PM I understand Swan Swan H May 22 2009 06:52 PM Maybe the further from New York you are the easier it is to be a Mets fan and not have the Yankee hate. Swan Swan H May 22 2009 07:10 PM Five home runs! Vun...two...three...four...FIVE! Zvon May 22 2009 07:13 PM That last bomb was Ibanez's MLB leading 16th homer. That fact boggles my mind. Edgy DC May 22 2009 07:28 PM ="Swan Swan H":2mmd0ae7]If the Mets can't win it on their own they don't deserve it. I want the Yankees to lose in a humiliating fashion 162 times a year, whether they are playing the Phillies, the Braves or The Manson Family All-Stars.[/quote:2mmd0ae7] That's the spirit. Putting your country ahead of your party. What helps the Mets is a provincial concern. What helps the commonweal is a universal concern. What helps the commonweal is the Yanks losing. Often. Badly. At great expense. Swan Swan H May 22 2009 07:32 PM Welcome back, C.M. Wang. 2 IP, 2 ER, 6 hits. Even this lowered the ERA a bunch. Swan Swan H May 22 2009 07:36 PM Jeter hits one. That's SIX! Wait...Teixiera hits one. That's SEVEN! They are slightly ahead of the wiffle ball court next to the Shake Shack. Zvon May 22 2009 07:46 PM Phils won. That makes em 15-5 on the road. That's sick. Fman99 May 22 2009 07:52 PM ="Zvon"]I would like the Mets to win everywhere. And the Phils (and Atlanta and Florida) to lose everywhere. Simple as that. A-Rod goes yard with no-one on. 5-1 The solo HR down five, that's A-Rod's signature move! Like watching Travolta dance, it is. metirish May 22 2009 07:55 PM Seven home runs hit there tonight.....I'm rooting for seven more tomorrow... Swan Swan H May 22 2009 07:57 PM Seven homers and ten runs scored. That says something, but I have no idea what. themetfairy May 22 2009 08:00 PM ="Swan Swan H":phhzp2ou]If the Mets can't win it on their own they don't deserve it. I want the Yankees to lose in a humiliating fashion 162 times a year, whether they are playing the Phillies, the Braves or The Manson Family All-Stars.[/quote:phhzp2ou] An instant classic! Rockin' Doc May 22 2009 08:02 PM Seven home runs tonight and I believe 75 in the first 20 games at Yankee Stadium III. It's like hitting in a wind tunnel. Elster88 May 22 2009 08:07 PM WTF? How many people want the Phillies to do well this series? I may have missed something but we're chasing them in the standings. I hope you guys are kidding around. After the Phillies sweep and the Mets lose the division by 1 game again it's going to be rough reading this thread. Too much Yankee-penis envy going on! seawolf17 May 22 2009 08:09 PM ="Elster88":252dn6qk]WTF? How many people want the Phillies to do well this series? I may have missed something but we're chasing them in the standings. I hope you guys are kidding around. After the Phillies sweep and the Mets lose the division by 1 game again it's going to be rough reading this thread. Too much Yankee-penis envy going on![/quote:252dn6qk] I hate it when I agree with Elster, but seriously. Who cares what the Yankees do? All that matters is the Mets winning. And the Phillies losing makes that easier, so hells yeah I'm rooting for the MFYs this weekend. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 22 2009 08:10 PM ="Elster88":2clux1lz]WTF? How many people want the Phillies to do well this series? I may have missed something but we're chasing them in the standings. I hope you guys are kidding around. After the Phillies sweep and the Mets lose the division by 1 game again it's going to be rough reading this thread. Too much Yankee-penis envy going on![/quote:2clux1lz] Don't be such a pussy. It's that kinda sacklessness that will prevent the Mets from ever catching up. We didn't lose any ground and the MFYs remained in 3rd. That's OK by me. Rockin' Doc May 22 2009 08:10 PM The Yankees are dicks, but I certainly don't envy them. metsguyinmichigan May 22 2009 08:18 PM I guess I want the Yankees to win, but only in in games where the Phillies batters rough up their staff the point that they are demoralized and the Phillies are worn out from scoring so much, only to lose in the end, sending them into a spiral of depression. And if the Phillies wanted to send a statement by sending Jeter on his butt with each and every pitch, I'm OK with that. Kong76 May 22 2009 08:21 PM E88: WTF? How many people want the Phillies to do well this series? <<< I think I was pretty clear, but the Mets need to win. So far, so good. metirish May 22 2009 08:22 PM It's too early for this shit....OK I'm going to post this for no good reason other than it's funny..... Fman99 May 22 2009 08:26 PM How polarizing! I continue to root for the comet. metsguyinmichigan May 22 2009 08:33 PM I know the first pig is supposed to be Waldman. But what's with the pig in the Yankee uniform? They even have him wearing a little cap. That's funny. G-Fafif May 22 2009 09:10 PM Someday the Phillies will go back to sucking and what they do on a given evening will be of little interest. The MFYs are the MFYs. It's always a good night when the MFYs lose. And the Mets win. Ashie62 May 23 2009 03:22 PM YS3 now on pace for 332 HR's...or the wiffle ball count in the backyard over any given weekend. The Met fan Yankee hate should have no bearing on where you live. At least not in Morris Couny Bumfuck NJ Rockin' Doc May 23 2009 05:12 PM I'd like the Yanks and Phils to split the next two games. I hope each game goes at least 15 innings so that each team completely decimates their bullpens before the weekend concludes. I further hope that during the two extra inning affairs there are so many home runs hit that MLB is concerned that they will run out of baseballs. TheOldMole May 23 2009 11:51 PM OK, I've finally figured out how I feel about this series. I'm glad that one team is losing, and I try not to think about any other part of the equation. batmagadanleadoff May 24 2009 08:40 AM If the season ended yesterday, the Mets would be on the outside looking in, playoff-wise, by one half game --- an outcome that could have been altered to the Mets benefit had the Yankees beaten the Phillies on Friday. Would an extra Yankees loss be much consolation? And we do lose ground even though we match the Phillies, whether by winning or losing; the season is one day closer to the end and the Phillies magic number goes down by one even if they don't increase their games ahead lead over the Mets. They're running out the clock. Does anyone here think that Jerry Manuel is rooting for the Phillies this weekend? I don't. Jeez, maybe we should also be rooting for the Bosox this weekend --- them being the Yankees archrivals! metirish May 24 2009 09:01 AM If , if , if....if the Queen had balls she'd be King. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 24 2009 09:15 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":3thkwklz]If the season ended yesterday, the Mets would be on the outside looking in, playoff-wise, by one half game --- an outcome that could have been altered to the Mets benefit had the Yankees beaten the Phillies on Friday. Would an extra Yankees loss be much consolation? And we do lose ground even though we match the Phillies, whether by winning or losing; the season is one day closer to the end and the Phillies magic number goes down by one even if they don't increase their games ahead lead over the Mets. They're running out the clock. Does anyone here think that Jerry Manuel is rooting for the Phillies this weekend? I don't. Jeez, maybe we should also be rooting for the Bosox this weekend --- them being the Yankees archrivals![/quote:3thkwklz] Geez. More members of the Sons of John Sterling. Be sure to wear your Jeter footy pajamas to the next meeting. Kong76 May 24 2009 09:23 AM I guess Yankee hate affects us all differently. The back page of The Snooze refers to Alex's homer as, "after A-Rod's blast ties it" --- that's part of the headline! It wasn't a fucking blast, it was barely a loud FART. It just drives me freakin' nuts on so many levels. Son's of John Sterling - lol batmagadanleadoff May 24 2009 09:45 AM So who would you root for if today was the last day of the season? Signed The Sons of Sterling (Equities) Kong76 May 24 2009 09:51 AM We'd root for the Phils to lose ya big duh. Boy you really painted us into a corner on that one. Nice job. Yay, batmags! Wooo Hooo! We were schooled. batmagadanleadoff May 24 2009 09:52 AM Did I do something bad? Ashie62 May 24 2009 10:01 AM No...and you have magadanbattingleadoff and playing first base. You are a lucky charm Kong76 May 24 2009 10:07 AM POOR DAVEY, NO ONE UNDERSTANDS HIM Kong76 May 24 2009 11:21 AM ^^ There, that's better ^^ G-Fafif May 24 2009 01:29 PM I was in a bar/restaurant as the MFY game wound down yesterday. Several TVs had it on, several didn't. It didn't seem to be obsessing the room. I wasn't watching it with intense interest either, just keeping an eye on it as the missus and I were capping off a moderate to grand day out, reflexively rooting against the home team, sorry the visitors were losing even as we normally despised the visitors. The ninth inning happens and there's much applause and hooting and "YAY YANKEES!" and the fact that the Mets had picked up an entire half-game on the Phillies -- in May, even if they all count equally -- was of zero consolation to me. These MFYLDB were full of themselves and it was disgusting. I booed, though not loudly enough to draw attention to myself. Many hours later, it wasn't so bad that events had conspired to allow us to pick up a game on the Phils in the course of Saturday. But to live the first half of it among those with their own agenda...yeech. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 24 2009 01:57 PM How about when BatMags and Rogers danced on the dugout to Cotton Eye Joe? That was something to see. Swan Swan H May 24 2009 02:07 PM Phils up 3-2 going to the bottom of the ninth. Lidge ambling in from the bullpen to see if he can get through one inning without hocking up a hairball at the very sight of the Yankees. Swan Swan H May 24 2009 02:15 PM Tied up, runner on first, none out. Lidge blows. It again. Swan Swan H May 24 2009 02:22 PM Extra innings in the Bronx, which always offers the opportunity for someone to overextend themselves and prematurely end their season. batmagadanleadoff May 24 2009 02:48 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]How about when BatMags and Rogers danced on the dugout to Cotton Eye Joe? That was something to see. Who made me a Yankee fan? Swan Swan H May 24 2009 03:04 PM Rooting for them this weekend. It's all or nothing - once you taste the blood your soul turns to dust. batmagadanleadoff May 24 2009 03:13 PM ="Swan Swan H":22do12er]Rooting for them this weekend. It's all or nothing - once you taste the blood your soul turns to dust.[/quote:22do12er] Damned if you do, Damn Yankees. It's those devilish paradoxes that define your worth as a fan. I am a Met fan because I can stomach rooting for the Yankees whenever it is in my rooting interest to do so. Benjamin Grimm May 24 2009 03:16 PM Gotta root against the Phillies. It's more important for the Mets to make the playoffs than it is for the Yankees to miss them. Zvon May 24 2009 03:38 PM I'm sure heads will explode by my saying this, but the Mets will never be able to even out the subway series if both teams do not appear in the World Series together again. Not saying I root for the Yankees in any way shape or form (unless they are playing teams that effect the Mets standings). Someday, though, I'd like to see that rematch. Benjamin Grimm May 24 2009 04:04 PM I'd rather see the Mets get their 27th World Championship before the Yankees win another. Since I'm 45 years old already, it would take quite a remarkable run for it to happen in my lifetime. Fman99 May 24 2009 08:43 PM The comet never hit so I lost. Elster88 May 27 2009 05:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":26v8p757]="Elster88":26v8p757]WTF? How many people want the Phillies to do well this series? I may have missed something but we're chasing them in the standings. I hope you guys are kidding around. After the Phillies sweep and the Mets lose the division by 1 game again it's going to be rough reading this thread. Too much Yankee-penis envy going on![/quote:26v8p757] Don't be such a pussy....[/quote:26v8p757] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":26v8p757]I am hoping for 6-4, expecting 0-10 or worse.[/quote:26v8p757] Right. I'm the pussy. Elster88 May 27 2009 05:53 PM ="seawolf17":pmrjyr5e]="Elster88":pmrjyr5e]WTF? How many people want the Phillies to do well this series? I may have missed something but we're chasing them in the standings. I hope you guys are kidding around. After the Phillies sweep and the Mets lose the division by 1 game again it's going to be rough reading this thread. Too much Yankee-penis envy going on![/quote:pmrjyr5e] I hate it when I agree with Elster, but seriously.[/quote:pmrjyr5e] Where'd that come from? Not sure what we disagreed on recently. Or ever. Elster88 May 27 2009 06:04 PM ="Swan Swan H":3eiyck00]Rooting for them this weekend. It's all or nothing - once you taste the blood your soul turns to dust.[/quote:3eiyck00] I wasn't rooting for them. I was rooting against the Phillies. It's these subtle differences that keep the devil from stealing your soul. Swan Swan H May 27 2009 06:11 PM Two teams in every game. We looked at the same big picture, you preferred that the Yankees would win, and I didn't. Elster88 May 27 2009 06:13 PM Who are these Yankees you speak of? All I know is the Phillies were playing and I wanted them to lose so my team could take first place. seawolf17 May 27 2009 07:00 PM No offense, Elster. I seem to remember us having a row over something or other some time ago. Elster88 May 27 2009 07:03 PM None taken. It's entirely possible I just don't remember it.

="Edgy DC"]Spoken like a career .150 hitting infielder. Maybe because he's been playing the infield his whole career, Jerry. It's not a toy, Jerry. It's a job he feels confident he can do. That should please you. By the way, I went to check Jerry's BB-r.com page to get get that stat, and his sposor is the same guy who sponsored J.J. Putz's page with "Welcome to New York, J.J.!" For Jerry, we get: Howard Megdal sponsor(s) this page. Mark my words: when his tenure ends, Jerry Manuel will be talked about with Gil Hodges and Davey Johnson. So, I'm marking his words. I thought that about Willie on 9/1/07 It came so close.. I hope that's the case, but I have a feeling we'll be saying things "If we had signed Manuel to play first base, he'd have done a better job."

Given how Peavy's pitched in the playoffs, and how he seems to be scared of the AL, I think i'm glad the Mets don't seem to be considering him at all.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah, Sheffield may be a dick but I can't see complaining about his addition to this team. He provides flexibility and a legit threat for the longball or walk we haven't had on the bench since Tony Clark. And for better or worse we need him right now. (I think Pagan is playing because Sheff has been feeling ill) Sheffield doesn't have any power threat. He's had nearly 100 AB and has 2. What's that equate to over a full season? 12? Even if you say he was rusty to begin with (he wasn't) still less than 20. I think some of it's still the perception that he can hit one. And that's where the extra OBP comes from. I think he's actually provided more inflexibility. Church ended up sitting for days at times, even when hot. Tatis didn't have anywhere to play, so Castillo was sat for him when he was hot. I feel like Murphy was coming around defensively until he was benched regularly for Sheff. Repetition is how you learn, and he wasn't getting that regularity. I hope I'm wrong, but Sheffield hasn't hit real well in years. He seems like a soft single, high OBP guy and I just don't think that provides a lot of value. The 'presence' argument is bunk too. Beltran and Wright provide plenty of that in this lineup.

Gwreck wrote: Tatis is the logical replacement for Murphy if it's close in the late innings, and he's also the logical pinch hitting replacement if a lefty-righty swap is needed. Except he sucks on defense. And he's slumping. The point is to get a viable 1B, and that means sticking with Murphy.

Gwreck wrote: I like this lineup a lot. I do too. No Sheffield. + Murphy + Castillo at 2 where he belongs. Although, doesn't conventional wisdom suggest you don't put the Lefties, Church and Murphy, back to back? Unless Manuel's just figuring he'll pinch hit Sheffield for Church. You cannot pinch hit for Murphy now (good thing) because he has to have all 9 innings at 1B in my opinion. No late inning replacements that don't know what they're doing.

="G-Fafif":2gs9t9jb]Jerry handled that interview like the weekly conference call I used to be obligated to participate in: when it came time to speak, it was obvious he had total contempt for everybody else on the line. And hail.[/quote:2gs9t9jb] Heh. I definitely got that feeling. He kept asking, "Do you understand what I'm saying?" and Francessa's like "yeah, I understand." It was like listening to to a high schooler get scolded by the principal for running the hallway. "Mike! Do you get it? This is how it is! Do you understand what I'm saying?" Swan Swan H May 20 2009 04:10 PM metirish May 20 2009 05:35 PM So , Jerry is full of shit? metirish May 21 2009 07:06 AM On Murphy's reaction to playing first base ] "His reaction, it surprised me," Manuel said. "He just lit up, had a big smile. I spoke with (outfield coach) Razor (Shines) about it and he said, 'Oh yeah, he's like a kid with a new toy.' Whereas I'm like, 'I'm scared to death. If he can't catch it out there, how's he going to catch it in here?'" Edgy DC May 21 2009 08:37 AM Spoken like a career .150 hitting infielder. Maybe because he's been playing the infield his whole career, Jerry. It's not a toy, Jerry. It's a job he feels confident he can do. That should please you. By the way, I went to check Jerry's BB-r.com page to get get that stat, and his sposor is the same guy who sponsored J.J. Putz's page with "Welcome to New York, J.J.!" For Jerry, we get: Howard Megdal sponsor(s) this page. Mark my words: when his tenure ends, Jerry Manuel will be talked about with Gil Hodges and Davey Johnson. So, I'm marking his words. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 21 2009 10:11 AM ] "His reaction, it surprised me," Manuel said. "He just lit up, had a big smile. I spoke with (outfield coach) Razor (Shines) about it and he said, 'Oh yeah, he's like a kid with a new toy.' Whereas I'm like, 'I'm scared to death. If he can't catch it out there, how's he going to catch it in here?'" I'm getting to the point in hearing him where everything out of the guy's mouth sounds passive-aggressive. (Or perhaps everything is passive-aggressive.) metirish May 21 2009 10:22 AM I should have noted and I'm not even sure why I posted that here but it came from Rubin today and not from the radio. But I agree with you LWFS, it's as if Jerry is covered if Murphy fails at first , I should post the article ] LOS ANGELES - The Daniel Murphy experiment in left field is over. Now, Murphy is the Mets' first baseman of the future. Or until Carlos Delgado returns in 10 weeks. Well, at least through the weekend, when Jerry Manuel will have had a few games to evaluate Murphy. A day after Murphy committed his third error in left field by dropping a sinking liner from the Dodgers' Juan Pierre, Manuel told Murphy he would now get a chance for a few games at first base. Murphy started there last night in the series finale against the Dodgers. The manager described Murphy, 24, as elated to be relieved of outfield duty. Murphy has only played 13 games at first since joining the Mets organization, all last season at Double-A Binghamton. He's been a third baseman for most of his pro career. "His reaction, it surprised me," Manuel said. "He just lit up, had a big smile. I spoke with (outfield coach) Razor (Shines) about it and he said, 'Oh yeah, he's like a kid with a new toy.' Whereas I'm like, 'I'm scared to death. If he can't catch it out there, how's he going to catch it in here?'" Murphy agreed infield should be easier for him, but noted that he will need to hone his footwork. Murphy didn't want to suggest a burden had been lifted. "When we win a pennant a burden will be lifted," he said. Murphy is a hard worker, so say this much for him: He'll get his uniform dirty, something Willie Randolph and others have knocked Delgado for not doing. "As an infielder, he should be better at first base probably because his problem before used to be throwing," infield coach Sandy Alomar Sr. said, referring to the bulk of Murphy's miscues in the minors at third base. "Playing first base, well, he doesn't have to make that many throws." Murphy is using Delgado's glove, which was passed to him through Alex Cora, who is on the DL with a torn thumb ligament. Murphy should receive his own glove soon. "I've got to put in an order," he said. Aside from inexperience at first base, Manuel hopes to put a better defensive lineup on the field each night, obviously needed after Monday's five-error game. He plans to institute regular early infield practice on road trips as well as on the first day of home series. Murphy moving to the infield also means more action for Ryan Church in right field. Gary Sheffield should play two of three games in the outfield at Fenway Park during the weekend. As for Murphy, Manuel acknowledged it may have been a mistake playing him in the outfield this season, although he noted that Murphy did show promise there late last season. The manager diplomatically agreed that it "would be nice" if the Mets had the prospects to promote from the minors to fill the exact voids needed, such as a shortstop when Jose Reyes missed five starts or now a first baseman. But that hasn't happened, with outfielder Angel Pagan and journeyman Ramon Martinez recently summoned instead. Meanwhile, what happens if Murphy doesn't show aptitude at first base? "I don't know where else you want me to go with him," Manuel deadpanned. "Third base?" Benjamin Grimm May 21 2009 10:43 AM Jerry's really coming across this season as a guy who's not too thrilled with the team that he has. I didn't get that feeling last year. Maybe because he was in audition mode then? Frayed Knot May 22 2009 08:25 AM Newsday's Dave Lennon dives into the thought process of Jerry Manual focussing on his attempt to get a read on his players. Last Sunday in San Francisco, Manuel sent up Angel Pagan to pinch hit for Murphy against Giants lefthander Jeremy Affeldt with the bases loaded and one out in the eighth inning. Pagan, recalled from Triple-A Buffalo last Friday, grounded into a double play that killed the Mets' final rally in a 2-0 loss. "Earlier in the year, when he's swinging well, Murphy hits in that situation, no doubt," Manuel said. "But because I'm with him now, and I can see when he is not himself, it's different. He might even have good numbers against that guy. But at that time, I know that number is going to be at the short end rather than what's normally going to happen because of the fact that he's not right." Ceetar May 22 2009 09:04 AM ="Edgy DC"]Spoken like a career .150 hitting infielder. Maybe because he's been playing the infield his whole career, Jerry. It's not a toy, Jerry. It's a job he feels confident he can do. That should please you. By the way, I went to check Jerry's BB-r.com page to get get that stat, and his sposor is the same guy who sponsored J.J. Putz's page with "Welcome to New York, J.J.!" For Jerry, we get: Howard Megdal sponsor(s) this page. Mark my words: when his tenure ends, Jerry Manuel will be talked about with Gil Hodges and Davey Johnson. So, I'm marking his words. I thought that about Willie on 9/1/07 It came so close.. I hope that's the case, but I have a feeling we'll be saying things "If we had signed Manuel to play first base, he'd have done a better job." LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 22 2009 10:11 AM ] "Earlier in the year, when he's swinging well, Murphy hits in that situation, no doubt," Manuel said. "But because I'm with him now, and I can see when he is not himself, it's different. He might even have good numbers against that guy. But at that time, I know that number is going to be at the short end rather than what's normally going to happen because of the fact that he's not right." "Also, I'm a do-it-yourselfer. Sometimes-- and any experienced DIYer knows this, when you do home repairs, and you're figuring out the amount of boarding you'll need to cover a floor, you may measure all day long, and that tape measure's not going to tell you anything. Sometimes, you've just got to go with your gut, because that 10' x 12' of oak just isn't going to give you 10' x 12' of coverage-- you can just tell from the way it's leaning there that it's not right." [Either he needs to stop talking, or I need to stop listening. Because if not, my head's asploding by July.] Ashie62 May 22 2009 03:29 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":lax5dcjm]Jerry's really coming across this season as a guy who's not too thrilled with the team that he has. I didn't get that feeling last year. Maybe because he was in audition mode then?[/quote:lax5dcjm] Jerry has fallen firmly into the damned if you do or don't bucket. He does well caculating his answers for the media. What is revealing to me is inabilty to get a good read on this team. Kong76 May 22 2009 06:24 PM A62: He does well calculating his answers for the media. What is revealing to me is inability to get a good read on this team <<< I typed four answers to this and backspaced over all four.

remember Jerry will pretty much say whatever he feels like at the time. Via the Castillo bunt, he said he doesn't believe Castillo could get the runner over because he doesn't hit it far enough, yet he pinch hit Castillo in a key spot needing a sac fly earlier last week. With Murphy..no pressure or anything. "I don't know if he can play 1B" Wouldn't want to pump him up, tell him to work at it and he'll get it, or anything. No pressure..wouldn't want him to press or anything. The other thing, he pinch hit for Murphy because Murphy was working harder and came out for extra BP and didn't look good there? That just feels like he's penalizing Daniel for working hard. Sheffield playing LF regularly does not feel like a good thing. He dodged the doghouse questions with bs responses like "I don't have a doghouse, I like dogs."

="Frayed Knot":1cys9nqh]The Braves reportedly balked over the Pads insistence that they include pitching uber-prospect Tommy Hansen in any deal for Peavy. Hansen is really good and nearly ready -- a description that doesn't really fit anyone in the Met system. Natonals need pitching, pitching, and more pitching.[/quote:1cys9nqh] True, but they do have Strasburg coming if they want him. Frayed Knot May 19 2009 01:57 PM That's one, now they just need nine more. OK maybe seven, but that includes an entire bullpen. btw, Peavy is already signed thru 2012 (2013 if you count the option) at pretty big bucks. I'm not sure he could finagle more money out of whatever team he holds no-trades against. In his case he's a southern boy who just may be one of the few to put NYC on his no-trade because he really doesn't want to be here. Most just simply put big-market teams on there figuring the small market won't deal for him anyway - effectively giving them a near complete N-T clause. Johnson, to my surprise, is only signed thru this season at $5.5 and will be a FA after that. Would make for a crowded 1B bag come August (he was barely competent in the OF before he snapped his leg in two) however I think Washington would be eager to move him ... but for a price Ugarte, for a price. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 19 2009 02:11 PM Rubin: ] Omar Minaya is holding a conference call with reporters regarding Carlos Delgado and the first baseman's projected 10-week absence. Minaya reiterated that it should be a 10-week absence based on the track record of other players who have had this procedure. He also insisted that the Mets would handle this from within. Minaya named Fernando Tatis and Daniel Murphy as the primary first baseman, only secondarily mentioning Jeremy Reed. Still, Minaya said he's "always involved" talking to clubs. "We will continue to be active in conversation with clubs," Minaya said, saying that concerns first baseman, starting pitching, relief pitching and everything else. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 19 2009 03:17 PM ="Frayed Knot":p0qejxb2]The Braves reportedly balked over the Pads insistence that they include pitching uber-prospect Tommy Hansen in any deal for Peavy. Hansen is really good and nearly ready -- a description that doesn't really fit anyone in the Met system. Natonals need pitching, pitching, and more pitching.[/quote:p0qejxb2] As I understood it, they'd been rebuffed for Hanson from square one. At that point, they went and asked for Medlen instead. Which, considering that a good number of major league personnel types seem to like Medlen at least as much as Hanson, is a bit like getting turned down for a handjob from your date, then asking for a handjob using your date's mouth. And, yeah, the Nationals need pitching... in volume. Stephen Strasburg is... ONLY... ONE... MAN! duan May 19 2009 04:07 PM aubrey huff might be a whole lot better an option, in that he's been known to play the OF badly rather then terribly. And you can't see the Orioles expecting too much when he's on $8 million. Ashie62 May 19 2009 11:12 PM 10 weeks in metspeak..I hesitate to say this, but Nick Johnson anyone, he crushes the Mets Edgy DC May 19 2009 11:26 PM About four people have already invoked Johnson. Frayed Knot May 20 2009 09:06 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 20 2009 09:14 AM ="Ashie62":1y5sbx17]10 weeks in metspeak..I hesitate to say this, but Nick Johnson anyone, [u:1y5sbx17]he crushes the Mets[/u:1y5sbx17][/quote:1y5sbx17] If by "crushes" you mean, 'hits worse than usual' well then, sure. .248/.380/.431 vs Mets (153 ABs) .273/.398/.457 overall career Swan Swan H May 20 2009 09:09 AM ="Edgy DC":nctew171]About four people have already invoked Johnson.[/quote:nctew171] I think Irish invoked Johnson in the David Wright thread. metirish May 20 2009 09:20 AM ="Swan Swan H":3dc1g4jv]="Edgy DC":3dc1g4jv]About four people have already invoked Johnson.[/quote:3dc1g4jv] I think Irish invoked Johnson in the David Wright thread.[/quote:3dc1g4jv] LOL Has Helton been mentioned yet? , it's an annual rite of passage that he does. Edgy DC May 20 2009 09:27 AM When Darryl Strawberry went down in 1985, did everybody try to imagine trades for Dave Parker or Glenn Wilson or Gary Ward? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 20 2009 11:23 AM ="Edgy DC":1t1tj5go]When Darryl Strawberry went down in 1985, did everybody try to imagine trades for Dave Parker or Glenn Wilson or Gary Ward?[/quote:1t1tj5go] Strawberry wasn't 36-going-on-37, and was signed for another 4 years. (Also, the fanbase/media corps wasn't quite as touchy, no?) Edgy DC May 20 2009 11:31 AM On one hand, I'm pretty sure two more weeks of Darryl Strawberry being available could have been the difference in 1985. On the other hand, I still wish folks would cool it with trade talk and the Mets would put Murphy and Tatis at first and re-stock at AAA. metsguyinmichigan May 20 2009 12:02 PM Nick Johnson has Yankee taint. Ick. So does Redding, but he logged more innings in his first start with us than he did in his entire Yankee career. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 20 2009 02:08 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":2ujf6l3z]So does Redding, but he logged more innings in his first start with us than he did in his entire Yankee career.[/quote:2ujf6l3z] ZZ Tim has the additional Yankee taint of growing up a Rochester MFY fan. Benjamin Grimm May 20 2009 02:13 PM I don't see the point of worrying too much about "taint." (I was really surprised about how so many Mets fans couldn't forgive Tom Glavine for having once been a Brave. I could see not liking a guy who's proven to be a jerk or a thug. I'm glad Roger Clemens never became a Met, and I hope that Michael Vick never does. (That would be pretty darn unlikely, anyway.) But to not want a guy just because he was once a Yankee or a Brave or a Phillie just doesn't make sense to me. Centerfield May 20 2009 02:56 PM joelmon > CPF posters LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 22 2009 01:01 PM Pertinent to our conversation in terms of market-gauging, Gammons on trade rumors regarding a few potential trade targets: ]The Nats have few chips to move. Nick Johnson and Austin Kearns should get action, although there has been little thus far. Boston wants to wait on David Ortiz and tabled a proposal of Johnson for Manny Delcarmen. and ]Indians GM Mark Shapiro says he spends "40 percent of my time denying false reports." ... Yes, with Jhonny Peralta's move to third base, he would deal Mark DeRosa for major league-ready pitching but otherwise will hold onto DeRosa into June. Something like Parnell for Johnson seems about right. Would you pull that trigger? And DeRosa almost certainly would require at least Jon Niese (along with something-- or somethings-- like Kunz or Gee as a deal-sweetener). metirish May 22 2009 01:11 PM I'd pull the trigger on Johnson, what would Boston do with Johnson? smg58 May 22 2009 01:52 PM The Indians got DeRosa for three prospects not on their top-20 list. If they get somebody like Niese or more than that, they will have gotten a very nice return on their investment -- especially since DeRosa has paid rather tepid dividends up to this point. My interest in Johnson depends on Delgado's status. Although, if Delgado is back before the deadline, we would be in a position to trade one of them and get back at least the equivalent of what we first gave up. (Assuming we don't overpay, that is.) But the combination of Murphy at first and Sheffield, Beltran, and Church in the outfield (with Tatis playing somewhere against lefties) isn't so bad that I'd compromise our bullpen. Frayed Knot May 22 2009 02:37 PM Remember that whatever trade goes down will be only for [u:21jaadak]4 months of Nick Johnson[/u:21jaadak] (and that's only if he stays healthy). We'd have to either extend him or bid on the open market for him after that. Not sure how baseball people would view Parnell or Neise in comparison to Delcarman Ashie62 May 22 2009 03:38 PM Nick Johnson is worth lower level prospects at best. Would never trade Parnell for a guy who could easily miss 2 months breaking his wrist falling out of bed.. Kearns does nothing for me. An expensive Michael Young was moved to 3rd and peddled in the off season. Maybe Texas would take Castillo as part of something.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2tdcmpvy]="Ceetar":2tdcmpvy]Here's my rant on why we need to fire this bum. http://www.ceetar.com/optimisticmetsfan/2009/05/fire-jerry-manuel/ Easily the worst manager we've had in at least 15 years.[/quote:2tdcmpvy] Managers rarely get fired for making dumb game decisions. It's when the players tune him out that he has to go.[/quote:2tdcmpvy] That's only a matter of time. I'd hard to think Murphy and Church, and even Reed and Reyes think he's a good manager. Gwreck May 19 2009 10:47 AM History tells us otherwise. It took an awful long time for Randolph to get fired and he wasn't exactly a master strategist. (And, of course, he wasn't really fired for his game decisions, either). LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 19 2009 12:42 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":1cp3q3jf]Ryan Church is actually fourth on the team in at bats. Only Beltran, Wright, and Reyes have more.[/quote:1cp3q3jf] Everyone but Beltran, Wright and Reyes has been hurt, 40 years old, or Daniel Murphy. Benjamin Grimm May 19 2009 12:51 PM True, but it's kind of hard to argue that he's been buried when only one outfielder has had more playing time than he has. Edgy DC May 19 2009 12:59 PM Nah, I don't think so. He played a lot the first three weeks before the trend began. Since the trend began, he's been (1) frequently bumped in lieu of his apparent lessers, (2) seemingly drawn more lefthanders while Murphy and Reed draw the righties, and (3) slid down the batting order. Gwreck May 19 2009 01:03 PM April ABs Beltran 80 Murphy 68 Church 67 Sheffield 30 Tatis 23 Reed 11 May ABs Beltran 67 Church 49 Tatis 47 Sheffield 40 Murphy 40 Reed 18 Benjamin Grimm May 19 2009 01:03 PM Okay, but in May, he's fifth in at bats: Carlos Beltran 67 David Wright 63 Luis Castillo 54 Jos� Reyes 53 Ryan Church 49 Fernando Tatis 47 Gary Sheffield 40 Daniel Murphy 40 Ramon Castro 37 Alex Cora 30 Elster88 May 19 2009 08:27 PM Pagan had four hits yesterday. Reed threw a ball from the first base position to the backstop. So naturally Manuel starts Murphy in left and Reed at first. Seriously what the fuck is wrong with him? If you have to play Reed and Murphy (and sit Pagan) than at least switch the positions. And as I'm typing this I see Murphy commits a two-base error in left. This is comical. Ashie62 May 19 2009 08:38 PM Jerry Manuel...I think he's probably not much better or worse than anyone else out there. In game managing doesn't get people hired or fired. 41-41 at the break could be a breaking point Personally C- Edgy DC May 20 2009 11:15 PM Letting Murphy start at first. A-. The team was desperate for this. I'd give it a higher grade, but it's so overdue. Pinch-hitting for Churchie, but not Murphy. D+. If you want to pull one of your lefties, pull the first one, because then Torre can't change pitchers. Sending Tatis up there instead of Sheffield. D+. Tatis is your last shortstop in a game where pinch-hitting for your struggling current shortstop needs to remain an option and would eventually happen. Sheffield's position is a hitter, and we needed one of those. Lifting Livan. C-. I suppose it's defensible. But good God. Just once, let a starter at least hint at losing it. Edgy DC May 21 2009 08:25 AM And to clarify, pinching Tatis (the mnorst versatile guy left on the bench) in for Church doesn't have to be a problem, except that he was then double switched out. Why, oh why, do managers persist in double switching when they have seemingly no intention of letting their relievers pitch beyond the one inning? Benjamin Grimm May 21 2009 08:35 AM This push-button managing gets frustrating to watch. I yearn for a manager with above-average intelligence. I think the Mets have only had two guys who fit that description: Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine. If I was hiring a manager I'd look for a smart guy who dared to be unorthodox. Edgy DC May 21 2009 09:20 AM The problem is that so many of them present as such. And because they are mostly old middle infielders and catchers, they supposedly have a broader understanding of the game. And as unconventional as they may fancy themselves, they end up under siege and paranoid from day one --- ripped if they do something out of the ordinary and it doesn't work, despite the fact that most moves dont' work and most games are won or lost by players no matter what the manager does. They get one tenth the salaries of their stars and maybe one third the contract length, they are utterly disposeable. In the end, they all end up like Willie --- acting inperturbable and above it all while inside you're clearly terrified. You bunt like crazy because you know you're one blown rally away from getting fired. Here's a crazy thought: If I found the guy who fit your description --- smart and daring enough to trust his smarts --- I'd pay him as much as I pay my richest player. Hopefully, knowing that it would be as hard for me to part with him as with Beltran --- harder, actually, as he would have no trade value --- he would be unafraid to act outside the box or discipline his players. Of course, then I might get a Tony LaRussa situation --- a detached freak who wears sunglasses at night, moves his pitchers up in the order, and drives drunk after the game. Benjamin Grimm May 21 2009 09:32 AM Yeah, I thought of LaRussa too. As the ugly downside of a guy who, at first glance, might appear to fit my description of the ideal manager. metirish May 21 2009 09:50 AM I'm not liking Jerry a lot this week , that as always is subject to change. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 21 2009 09:54 AM The thing that bothered me most was going to Putz like a kneejerk. Turns out he had a stiff neck ("the elbow is fine" he lied). I've about had it with Putz and with Jerry leaning on him like he has when it's obvious there may be better choices to be made. Nymr83 May 21 2009 09:59 AM ]Sending Tatis up there instead of Sheffield. D+. Tatis is your last shortstop in a game where pinch-hitting for your struggling current shortstop needs to remain an option and would eventually happen. Sheffield's position is a hitter, and we needed one of those Although i wanted him up there for Muphy, no Church, i have no problem using Tatis over Sheff. Tatis is the better hitter to me, especially a pinch-hitter (if the numbers dont back me up on that then maybe i'm wrong, this is just based on my perception) Edgy DC May 21 2009 10:24 AM I understand lifting Murph istead of Church (he could have lifted 'em both), but I'm trying not to make a deal over C decisions. It's spending his most versatile player that slayed us. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 21 2009 12:22 PM ="Nymr83":1fs6xos9] Although i wanted him up there for Muphy, no Church, i have no problem using Tatis over Sheff. Tatis is the better hitter to me, especially a pinch-hitter (if the numbers dont back me up on that then maybe i'm wrong, this is just based on my perception)[/quote:1fs6xos9] Sadly, the numbers seem to do great violence to you on that (although Tatis, in a teeny-tiny sample size, is doing a touch better, and putting the ball in play more): Tatis: 2009: 8 PA, 2 H, 1 BB, 2 R, 2 RBI .400a/.500ob/.400ops, 6 balls in play Career: 57 PA, 49 AB, 5 R, 5 RBI, 1 XBH, .204a/.281ob/.224ops Sheffield: 2009: 17 PA, 1 H (HR), 6 BB, 3 R, 1 RBI .091/.412/.364, 9 balls in play Career: 51 PA, 36 AB, 10 R, 11 RBI, 3 XBH, .278/.471/.444