d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: get out of here with pitcher wins. Generally speaking, pitchers who win 18 games are a tad better than suck. It may not be the sexiest roto-sabr-fantasy-projection stat but I think we'd be hard pressed over the years to find a pitcher with 18 wins or more and say he flat out sucks(ed). We, meaning the reasonable folks reading this. okay, but we're not talking generally, we're talking specifically. flat out sucked? maybe. is not good? not hard. Vargas is a specific example of that. The best pitchers tend to accumulate wins because they're typically on the mound more, regularly, and longer. They also get more vitamin D. It's like looking at beer sales volume and concluding that Citi Field is the most popular bar in NYC. John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah as stinky as the relief pitching has been at times, and as bad as the butt-end starters have been, we lose because we're not scoring enough. Conforto, Ces, Bruce all gotta start whacking. Conforto's been sorta alright. It's Rosario I'm kinda focusing in on. Gonzalez too, but at least there seems to be some indication of bad luck there ,and he walks some.