Vic Sage

i saw him play with the Cyclones last year, and he looked pretty good.

If they can get Pena 500 plate appearances between RF, LF (he's played some CF too, i think) and DH, they'll likely get 30+ hrs. If this also works to diminish the ABs wasted on JT Snow, so much the better. Arroyo gave them depth, but they were looking for a spot in the rotation for rookie papelbon (who they are rightfully high on), so they're getting both an offensive upgrade AND the potential for a pitching upgrade, as well. Cincy? Are they one of the "smart clubs"? Somehow i don't think so.

thats my point, Yancy. If you want to use examples from 40+ years ago, you're ignoring the other factors that "smart teams" have to deal with in order to compete in 2006. Its all well and good to say cut or bench Matsui and play Keppinger, but Matsui still, in my view (at least until his latest injury), had more UPSIDE than Keppinger, or at least Keppinger has neither the power, speed nor defense to outplay Matsui in any significant way, so why WOULDN'T you give the incumbant the benefit of the doubt, since you're paying him $8m anyway? If Matsui gets hot, and plays as MANY scouts thought he would (not just the Mets) you've got a 2bman who can give you 20hrs/20SBs, and a chip to trade (if the Mets are out of it). If he flops, you still have a mediocrity like Keppy (or Woodward, for that matter) available. Burying him in ST would've rendered him worthless and untradeable, to no great end. Unless you really believe in Anderson Hernandez... but i don't. Not be a longshot. Where we differ is (1) our assessments of Matsui to date, and (2) that you seem to think any decision to play Matsui over Hernandez (or Keppy, or whoever) is, by definition, strictly a CYA move. I, on the other hand, understand that its their job to know more about these guys' potential than i do, and since Omar's and Willie's jobs depend on winning, not just covering their asses, they'd want to play anybody over Matsui if they thought they'd get a significant upgrade at the position. Or if they thought that maximizing Matsui's playing time early could make his contract (or some portion of it) more moveable, allowing Omar more room to make subsequent moves at the deadline (since Wilpon apparently has him working on a pretty firm budget), this too seems something a "smart club" would do. What doesn't necessarily strike me as "smart" is handing the position over to a low-walk, low-slg, low-speed, singles-hitting 2bman with limited range, or to turn it over to a guy with 1 good minor-league season (which many scouts have concluded was "fluky"), unless they absolutely had to. Now, with Matsui's injury, it appears they may have to, and if either of these guys play well, i think it unlikely that Matsui will get much of a chance to get his job back, regardless of his contract.

i think Pelfrey is legit. I also don't want him coming north, either to sit in the pen, or to be pencilled into the rotation and be responsible for 170-200 IPs for this team this year. I think Milledge is legit, and i wouldn't mind seeing him win the RF job over Nady or Diaz. But, given his age and tendency to hack, i also don't have a problem with him starting in AAA and, if Floyd goes down (as is his want) or if Nady and/or Diaz aren't producing, and if Millsy is showing some plate discipline in Norfork, call him up in June. As for Bannister... I don't trust his stuff but i never could understand how Maddux got people out, either, so don't go by me. But i'd sooner he and Heilman got the 4th-5th slots than Zambrano, who can start in the pen for all i care. I would've liked to have seen Heath Bell and Fortunato get more of a shot to make the team rather than trading SPers for guys like Sanchez and Julio, or signing guys like Bradford and Iriki, but they're here and they're going to pitch, so there's no room for those guys. I still think Bell is going to make somebody a Dan Wheeler-type setup guy at some point. I just wish it could've been us, and we could've traded any of Cameron /Seo / Benson /V.Diaz as part of a package for a better 2bman or frontline SPer.

]This is not how a smart club operates agreed. Now, a separate exercise: Name the "smart clubs" that operate differently.

and by "merit", I'm assuming you mean measuring the performance of players in ST in a relatively small sample size, playing against other teams' prospects, when rookies are trying to impress and veterans (some of whom were off playing in the WBC) are just trying to get ready for the season. or does "merit" include other things? like wishful thinking?

i judged Randolph an idiot long before the "LoDuca is a perfect #2 hitter" stuff. In fact, when i raised this issue initially in a separate thread, i specifically stated that i didn't think lineup order makes much of a difference, one way or the other. I was simply asking how many more ABs would we be giving LoDuca at Wright's expense in that lineup, and i was observing that Randolph's stated position on this issue reflects his bass-ackwards approach to baseball in the year of our lord, two thousand ought six.

Ranking Lieter as the #6 pitcher, and #12 overall, seem like reasonable projections to me, give or take a few slots. I could see him as low as 8th pitcher, and down to 15th overall, but beyond that, i think peeps are just projecting their own dislike into their evaluation of Al's Met career. And why people dislike Al is beyond me. He's probably the only Republican I've liked since reading about Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln. He came up as a MFY, so i don't fault him for "returning home" as it were. The fact that we got better seasons out of him than the Yanks ever did takes the sting out it for me.

The only "real" Mets on the list are Seaver and Piazza (and even mikey wasn't home-grown). As for Bonds v Ruth in the #1 slot... one doesn't even need to get into the steroids issue to settle this matter. When Barry starts pitching as well as he hits, then we'll talk. Until then its (1) Ruth, and (2) anybody else.

i said "obviously".

i guess i'm making a broader point... my perception of a continuing resistance in baseball to the overriding importance of OB% by many baseball professionals who still would rather take potshots at Billy Beane then look at their own organizations and figure out how to adopt measures to adapt to the 21st century. ...and my fear that our team is amongst those on the wrong side of history.

]The thing about Graffaanino is that he hit .319 in 51 games after coming over from KC last year. why people post data that they themselves regard as irrelevant is beyond me. You raised an irrelevant issue. If somebody were to post that Grafaninno hit well last year so we should take a look at him, i could totally understand you responding in exactly this fashion. That you yourself raised it, outside of any such context, to negate an argument nobody had made just seems pointless to me. but that, obviously, is just me.

]Um, I don't know. Didn't come up? um, do you think? I don't. I think it didn't come up because its not something they focus on. If it was, it WOULD'VE come up. And it certainly SHOULD come up anytime these guys talk about "fundamentals". I think Bernazard etal don't focus on it for the same reasons Minaya and Randolph don't... because they're still locked into an outdated mode of how to look at baseball, untainted by the statistical analysis being done for the last 20 years. Which concerns me more than the particular outcome of particular trades.

In judging a 33-year old career utility infielder's ability, he has a .700 lifetime OPS over the course of 2000 ABs to attest to his mediocrity. Isn't that more pursuasive than the few hundred he accumulated in 2 hitter's parks as a part timer in the AL last season? Do you really think he suddenly learned to hit at age 33? Do you really think he'd approach those numbers as a starting 2bman in Shea? If so, you're goofy. And if not, why are you raising this point?

Lima make it? How? SP: Martinez Glavine Trax Zambrano Heilman ----------- RP: Wagner Sanchez Julio Bradford Iriki Ring (or other LHP) If Lima is added, its either at the expense of a guy they've already signed to a major-league contract (and he hasn't outpitched any of those players), or its at the expense of having a LHP in the bullpen (other than our closer), or its at the expense of carrying a 7th RP at the expense of a bench player (probably V.Diaz, who has options) Castro Franco Valentin Woodward Diaz E.Chavez or T.Redman I just can't see it happening, unless Iriki, or one of the starters, gets hurt in ST. In which case, i'd still rather see Bannister. I don't think Lima can be "waived", because i think he's just a non-roster invitee. Isn't he?

so does anybody know anything more about Deolis Guerra -p Jacobo Neguilis- p Carlos Gomez- of Fernando Martinez- of Andy Wilson- c/1b Junior contreras- 1b Hector Pellot- ? And how come, when player development guys talk about "fundamentals", they talk about bunting and basestealing (stuff that is relatively less important to run production) and they rarely talk about plate discipline (pitch recognition, pitch selection, and patience), which is the single most important and therefore FUNDAMENTAL set of skills to develop in a young hitter?

This reminds me of an Oscar Wilde quote... "The basis of optimism is sheer terror."

i don't see the point in signing an Alex Cora or Grafaninno, or that type of utility infielder, to be our starting 2bman. They're no better than Matsui... or Woodward, for that matter. If the Mets are NOT going to go with Matsui (due to injury or performance), they might as well go with the cheap available options on hand. No need to pick thru somebody else's trash.

Iriki - he'll likely be in the bullpen, a spot starter/long man Bannister - likely start in AAA; 1st man up Lima - non-roster (can't trade him), won't make team, may sign for AAA Gonzalez - sucks, AAA at best Pelfrey - ABall Maine - AAA Oliver - see "Lima" Soler - has already been reassigned I don't see us as being overloaded with starters. In fact, the only name on that list i'd be the least bit interested in seeing start if one of our SPs goes down is Bannister (at this point). The only ones we COULD trade are the ones we have no need to trade. Neither Lima nor Oliver can be traded, and Iriki has a major-league contract and a role in the bullpen, and Bannister, Pelfrey, Maine and Soler can go to the minors without any problems.

can't we all jes' get along? and Bret, your response to my post was to point out how stupid Mets brass was... which was not my point. I'm not debating about whether they were right or wrong [There's no way to really know just by looking at it one decision, in retrospect. As chaos theory suggests, if a dung beetle farts in Iberia, there are Tsunamis in Okanawa (or something)]. my point wasn't whether they were WRONG or not. My point was that you can't go from thinking they're wrong to adjuding them LIARS. Well, i mean YOU can, and you've done it again here (which was the point of my sarcasm), but i can't and won't make such an arbitrary and defamatory leap of logic. Being wrong is bad enough. One doesn't need to find them to be evil as well.

NL East: NYM / ATL / PHI / WAS / FLA NL Central: HOU / MIL / STL / CHC / PIT / CIN NL West: LA / SF / SD / ARZ / COL WC: ATL AL East: NYY / BOS / TOR / BAL / TB AL Central: CLE / CHW / DET / MIN / KC AL West: ANH / SEA / OAK / TEX WC: BOS 1st Round-- NL: NYM over LA / ATL over HOU AL: CLE over BOS / ANH over NYY League Championships-- NL: ATL over NYM AL: ANH over CLE World Series-- ANH over ATL NL MVP: David Wright (YES, i do!) AL MVP: Vlad Guerrero NL CY: Jake Peavy AL CY: Felix Hernandez NL ROY: Prince Fielder AL ROY: Ian Kinsler

depends what you trade them for it.

if Pelfrey dominates at A-Ball, i could see them jumping him to AAA-Norfolk by mid-season. Then, if he continues to dominate, and if they find themselves in need of a spot start, or if somebody goes down, or if Zambrano is as ineffective as i anticipate, they can choose between bringing up Pelfrey or Bannister. But i think they'll hesitate putting him into the fire in his first pro season, unless there are some cataclysmic events in the rotation. Of course, if the Mets announced that as their plan, and then ended up bringing Pelfrey up in August, it will be because they are a bunch of liars.

This recalls Bret's branding of Wilpon, etal, as liars for stating 2 years ago that David Wright wasn't ready yet, and the plan wasn't for him to make it this season, (or whatever the reporter said Freddie said), and so when David ended up having a hot start in the minors and was brought up ahead of schedule, it became evidence of the organization being a bunch of pernicious liars engaged in a massive deception (to what end? who knows.) at some point in his life, Bret must've been badly disappointed. So now he sees each press report as an opportunity to find a liar. It must be an amusing hobby... like finding a "nina" in a Hirshfeld.

this is about the confusion of roles athletes play... on the one hand, they're human beings, on the other, they're mythic heroes. I have no great love of competitiveness displayed by human beings with whom i have to interact on a personal basis. I think, by and large, winning is over-prioritized by western culture that is goal-oriented, not process oriented. however, having said that, i have a GREAT love for mythology, telling us stories about ourselves. And the great athlete who uses his physicality to accomplish great deeds, or who overcomes physical limitations to achieve victory thru force of will, is a powerful story. the Bode Millers of the world frustrate that myth by being altogether too real in their attitudes. To the extent sports is a form of storytelling, and athletes the protagonists of the story, Miller makes a pretty shitty protagonist.