Vic Sage

oh, good point.

Is that schadenfreude i smell emanating from his Edgeness? I didn't think you indulged in such mean-spirited thoughts.

Ceetar wrote: sorry Vic, i stopped reading after "yes it is next year". talk to you next year then, i'm gonna watch baseball. I'm going to watch baseball, too, because unlike you i don't have to delude myself with pennant hopes in order to enjoy watching a Mets game.

Yes, I'm not sure how the Brewers getting better is a anti-Phillies move? Certainly doesn't make the Mets or Braves more likely to beat them. This ain't that complicated. Brewers better = Brewers more likely to beat Phillies in NL playoffs. Nothing short of a plane crash is keeping the Phils out of the playoffs altogether. So the move is rated on the assumption that we trust Sandy Alderson blindly? Supposedly there were other, similar, offers or bites. I'm not going to make assumptions about how desperate Sandy was or what other possibilities were out there. Not blindly; based on his history of success based on rationality. And yes, you are implicitly making assumptions about Sandy's desperation and other possiblities available when your "expectations" are not met. If there were other "similar" offers, then this deal was as good as the next one, no? I expect him to make this team better, and while jettisoning salary certainly raises the percentages he can do that next year, it's not quite next year is it? yeah, it is. You just don't realize it yet. We're a .500 team at the break, 3rd in our division behind the 2 best teams in the league, and 5th in the WC. Murphy and Turner have done an admirable job of picking up the slack for Davis and Wright, and Young/Gee have produced nearly as well as Santana would have been expected to at this point, given age/degree of decline. But Turner's injury has slowed him significantly, Gee has turned back into a pumpkin, Bay has shown flashes but is basically running in place, Pelfrey is a case study in mediocrity, and Reyes, our MVP, has yet another leg injury. It's Alderson's job not to be fooled by this fun bunch of overachievers and to look out for the long-term health of the franchise. Perhaps there is more value on players to be named later, there probably is, but I don't think it was unreasonable to expect an actual player to be named now. That's how most trades go. I'm sure there will be additions to match this subtraction, because regardless of what fans think, it's too early for the _organization_ to write the season off. If we can get better players later, then i'm happy to wait, and i'm glad "fan expectation" isn't the criteria being used for the deal. And replacing K-Rod with a group effort of Izzy/Parnell/Beato isn't quite the same as "writing the season off", now is it? Of course, you can sing that song once they deal Beltran (which they will do any day now), and i for one have no problem with them writing off a .500 team to set themselves up for the future. That would, at least, indicate a plan for the future... which would be a wonderful change of pace for this franchise. Maybe an analogy? I know I have to sell my old car to get a new car, but it's the new car that's exciting, not selling the old car that's done me well or even the window shopping for the new one. If the old car has a ticking time bomb strapped to the hood, maybe you'd be more excited about its departure rather than its trade-in value.

K-Rod to the Brewers, Izzy to the Cards, Beltran to the Pirates: who do we send to the Reds so that we can have a ringer for all contenders in the NL Central? santana's owed more than $50m for 2012/2013 seasons. Think they'll take him? What if we package him with Bay ($35m)? Hell, i'd settle for dumping Carrasco's $1.2m for next season. Every little bit helps the Reyes fund.

Are new capable guys gonna emerge from the backend? or is Acosta going to get more innings? Wait, aren't you the "optimistic mets fan?"

send him back, with smallpox-infested blankets!

Ceetar wrote: This is pure speculation? Who knows how thin the market was? Alderson knew, that's who. And he paid $5m just to get out from under that $17.5m option. So that tells you all you need to know about the thinness of the market. Look, no team in its right mind is going to take FRod on as a closer and be subject to that option... it's paralyzing, even for big market clubs. So that leaves a market of playoff-contending teams that HAVE a closer, who were looking for setup guy who they could use as a part-time closer, at most. And such teams would also have to have avoided F-Rod's 10-team "no-trade" list. Could've just released him too. Maybe paying 3.5 next year is worse than paying 5million this year (or really, paying nothing this year, since they were going to pay him that anyway) or maybe it's not. If we released him, it's my understanding (and correct me if i'm wrong here) that the team picking him up would only be obligated for the MLB minimum per year. The Mets would be liable for the ENTIRE contract, not just the $5m this year, and the $3.5m next year. So we'd still be on the hook for $17.5m in 2012 (less MLB minimum) if his option vested with another team. So, NO, releasing him was NOT a very good alternative. And this is without getting into 'mucking with his playing time' issues, which would've been really easy if the Mets fell out of it. Then you're paying 3.5 for some draft picks. And your also getting into litigation with the player's union, which the Mets may have won, or may not have. I'm not unhappy with the move, I just expected to get more than two random minor leaguers sometime in the future. Something more than a pure salary dump in early July. Then perhaps your expectations were out of line (quel supris!). With that 2012 contract albatross hanging around his neck, Frankie was never going to get back anything more than we got. I have confidence in Alderson to maximize our assets; he's not leaving anything on the table. But he just couldn't risk keeping KRod, and every other team in MLB knew it.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah, the Mets will go with Izzy until he's traded to the Cardinals next week, then Bobby Pee. But to me, Beato just sorta looks like a closer. He already has a distinct body language to him, made some bold remarks in the papers, already knows how to strike guys out, and gets the grounders. This. Sandy is smart enough to try and boost Izzy's value and then dump him. Izzy, however, may not help matters by sucking, which he mostly has recently, after a good start. Obviously, Parnell and Beato have the "stuff", but I'd love Terry to take the initiative to simply match relievers to situations and give the ball to the guy with the best shot in a particular circumstance. High Leverage situation = best available pitcher. Of course, i wanted Terry to do that with F-Rod this season, so we could keep a good arm in the pen AND avoid him vesting for 2012. But he's not that bold, and i don't think he'll do the bullpen-by-committee thing now either, despite the chance it could maximize the pen's strengths and minimize its weaknesses, without over-inflating value of 50 IP guys.

the only way he commands a good off-season contract is to: 1- accept the fact that NO TEAM on earth is going to allow his 17.5m option to vest; so 2- he's going to be a setup man/part-time closer the rest of the way, and therefore 3- if he makes a fuss about it, and becomes a clubhouse cancer and a distraction for a playoff contending team, he will be 4- fucking himself royally. Forget the 17.5m, Frankie. Go be a good boy, play nice with the other cheddarheads, show you can be a good player on a playoff team, and you'll get a nice deal for next year. Or be a jerkoff and risk becoming untouchable. Your choice.

yeah, with Beltran's no-trade, he'll likely veto any team that isn't a clear playoff contender. Plus any team getting him owes about $6M due after 7/31st, and he is unrestricted FA with no draft picks going to them if they don't re-sign. So, its a PURE rental for a big-market team 1 bat short of a playoff run. I don't know that we can get very much in that scenario, even if we pick up some of the $6M. But if we can get at least 1 blue chip prospect, we should absolutely do it.

i was nowhere NEAR fenway last night! oh, you mean some OTHER guy said it. okay then. go derek! hee hee

thanks Grimm, i overlooked them. And if i knew you had that list, i wouldn't have bothered with it myself. As for carp and bautista, i included anybody who was ever in the organization, whether or not they ever had an appearance with the major league club. There may be others i missed. please fill in the gaps.

ok, so that's a "no" then.

i think Evans/Duda should be in a strict platoon at 1b until Wright comes back, at which point Duda goes down and Murphy plays 1b (with Evans against some [not all] LHPs). If and when Davis comes back, Murphy/Turner can platoon at 2b, with Tejada going down (or playing SS if Jose goes bye bye). If Beltran gets traded, I'd prefer a Duda/Evans platoon in RF, or F-Mart (if healthy) full time. I keep waiting for Evans to make an impact against major league pitching. maybe this time.

Centerfield wrote: Not appearing on this list: John Maine Oliver Perez Luis Castillo have any of them played for other teams this year?

1st half ex-Mets team: c - Castro 1b - XNady 2b - Keppinger ss - Scutaro 3b - Wigginton Of - J. Bautista / Cameron / J.Francoeur Bench - Schneider / Cora / Cairo / EChavez / Milledge SP - J.Vargas / H.Takahashi / Chen / Humber / Heilman RP - Bell / J. Smith / Putz / H.Rodriguez / D.O'Day / Mota / Wheeler That's not a very good team. Not a bad pen, though.

Here are the ex-Mets with ABs or IPs (on edit: for other major league teams) so far this season: AZ - 5 Xavier Nady Melvin Mora Henry Blanco Aaron Heilman JJ Putz BOS - 2 Marco Scutaro Dan Wheeler CWS - 3 Lastings Milledge Ramon Castro Phillip Humber CIN - 1 Miguel Cairo CLE - 1 Joe Smith COL - 2 Ty Wigginton Matt Lindstrom FLA - 1 Mike Cameron (formerly BOS) HOU - 3 Jeff Keppinger Nelson Figueroa Robinson Cancel KC - 2 Jeff Francoeur Bruce Chen LAA - 2 Hisanori Takahashi Scott Kazmir LAD - 1 Rod Barajas MIL- 3 Carlos Gomez Jeremy Reed Sean Green NYY - 2 Luis Ayala Gustavo Molina (edit) PHI - 2 Brian Schneider Wilson Valdez (edit) SD - 1 Heath Bell SF - 1 Guillermo mota SEA - 2 Mike Carp Jason Vargas TEX - 3 Endy Chavez Darren O'Day Darren Oliver (edit) TOR - 3 Jose Bautista Chris Woodward Octavio Dotel WAS - 4 Alex Cora Livan Hernandez Henry Rodriguez Jesus Flores

F-rod finishes, down by 3. F-U, Terry.

walks up, bunts down. The ****bunter drank the Kool-Aid! Yea, Terry! Go, MoneyBall Mets!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Is there one word for elated/confused/wary/hopeful? As usual, Sondheim has many words for it: You're always wary You're always hopeful You're always wondering what might have been Then a run walks in And still you're wary And still you're hopeful And still you wonder And still you doubt Then the Mets are out Everything's different Nothing's changed Only maybe slightly rearranged You're wary-hopeful Regretful-happy Why look for answers Where none obtain? You always have What you never gain Which has nothing to do with All to do with pain You're always sorry You're always grateful You root on, thinking I'm not alone You're still alone You don't live with them You do live for them You're scared they're starting To pull a fade, And scared they'll trade Good things get better Bad get worse Wait, I think I meant that in reverse You're wary-hopeful Regretful-happy Why look for meaning in any plan? You always want What you never can Which has nothing to do with All to do with "fan" Nothing to do with All to do with "fan"

I'm sorry, but did the 5-13 start not actually happen? was that a different manager? he gets credit for the record SINCE then, but no blame for the start itself? I'm sorry, i'm getting dizzy. i think i need to sit. Reyes is having an MVP season so the team is playing 500. I don't think that gets Terry a ride down the canyon of heroes just yet.

i'm a sucker for a redhead... sign me up.

would his dad not have fed him if Jose wasn't a special athlete?

my strongest 'huzzah's go out to anybody who feels like they're getting screwed by their boss and has the wherewithal to tell them to take their job and shove it. I wish i felt free to do so.