Theoldmole

Big movie splurge for me -- two in two nights. BBM tonight, and I liked it a lot, but after the incredible dramatic tightness of Match Point, the night before, it felt slack in comparison. Still, eight hats.

Seriously, that's why I modified the language. I don't have no opinion; I am reserving judgment. I'll miss Anna. I'll miss having two pitchers that look like Tom Glavine. I hate it when anyone gets traded. But I don't know whether this will be a good or bad deal for the Mets. I don't buy the "they're not through" reasoning, though. "Let's trade some of our good players for not-so-good players, because later we plan to trade our not-so-good players for good players"?

I like to think of myself as a cocktail weenie.

What's SNY?

Would love to be there.

]="Edgy DC"] Quote: I'm thinking that that's unlikely, and I'm missing nothing. Shouldn't he be banned from using the word "unlikely" ever again? I think that would be unlikely. Johnny Dickshot Jan 23 2006 07:00 PM Nice post jb. KC Jan 23 2006 07:08 PM >>>Rather than 'fess up and admit that maybe my opinion wasn't quite as loony as he'd maintained, he preferred picking fight after tedious fight after never-ending fight with me, and then suddenly (when he found he was getting as good as he was giving) just began treating my posts as non-existent.<<< I don't think this fairly sums up what went down. You really frame it to make edge sound like a real bastardly prick and often it was you were the bastardly prick in the history of this small community. I find this fued to be terribly stressful and unecessary. It maikes me physically ill sometimes when this stuff flairs up. ILL. Nymr83 Jan 23 2006 08:21 PM Re: Explanation to Cooby old original jb wrote: Maybe it's the Edgy/Sal thing that has people posting on these threads, but I feel that people are up in arms because they are more worried about the pitching than about who plays catcher, and despite a flurry of trades, both starting pitching and the pen are still a big question mark. Piazza's offense and ability to play far into the season was declining anyway. The offense he provided has been replaced at other spots in the lineup. His defensive catching skills have been replaced too. A Exactly. Piazza is gone (in the sense that he can't sign til may 1st and even if he could he's not the player he used to be.) There would be no point in getting too mad about who is catching because all the candidates were varying degrees of mediocrity, there simply is no Piazza-type out there. ] It is amediocre (after Pedro) starting rotation that is giving fans the heebee jeebees, and the plan of stocking up on promising but questionable hard throwing right handed relievers in exchange for excess starters just doesnt seem to make much sense. We still don't have enough left handed middle relief so after all this, the pen is still not complete. agreed. first of all, slightly above average starters are much harder to find (IMO) than slightly abve average relievers. I and others (i think Elster for one would agree) are against trading quality starting pitching for anything but an elite reliever just on principle. While i'd change my mind if we had 8 or 9 starters and no relievers cutting it down from 7 starters to 6 wasn't a great idea, cutting it down to 5 is a downright bad idea imo unless those 5 resemble a braves staff from the mid-90's. ] The irrational part, to me, is decrying these trades as bad by thinking that the current crew of starters is necessarily any worse than the prior crew. But maybe that's what rankles so much; the starting rotation seems to be mired in mediocrity, no matter which of seven or eight pitchers land in the five starting spots. We had all these starters, and yet there seems to be no way to parlay them into something really great. we had 7 starters and i'd say 1 is great, 3 were solid, and 3 were suspect in one way or another, now we have 5 and we traded a solid one and the best suspect, if anyone gets hurt you'll be getting an introduction to Brian Bannister, i don't think thats a good thing. ] As a certified Omar apologist, I will say that the reason for this conundrum is not Omar's alleged stupidity, but that none of the pitchers involved were all that great to begin with. Seo and Heilman have both the biggest upsides but also the greatest chances to fail. The rest are either total question marks or utter mediocrities. fine, then don't trade them. there was no reason not to go into the year with heilman pitching the 8th and zambrano in long relief to solve the rotation glut. everyone wants pitching in june and july, i'd bet benson gets you more then and so does Seo if he shows good stuff again. ] For what it's worth, I'd have been happiest with Seo and Heilman both starting, Zambrano AND Benson traded, and either Jorge Julio or Duaner Sanchez playing the role of excess right handed disgruntled setup man. i'd have been happiest trading only zambrano, i think with the age of the rotation and the question marks it makes total sense to keep 6 guys around, especially when you arent getting something significant for dealing 2 of them. ] I will conclude by saying that a mediocre rotation with one ace is far better than what many teams have--and as a certified Omar apologist, I will add that if he hadn't been able to sign that ace and without Omar's apparently superior salesmanship and reduced fecklessness (compared to prior administrations) we would probably be looking at a four year rebuilding job without Delgado, Wagner, or Beltran on board. I'll conclude that the rotation a month ago was better than it is now, and thats the whole point of anger at the trades. Delgado allegedly didn't sign last year BECAUSE of omar, Beltran was thrown way more dough than anyone else was offering. Zvon Jan 23 2006 08:23 PM ahhhhhh, the passion of the Met fan. Personally, I think Anna Benson put one of those "Youll rue the day you traded me!" voodo hex curses on all Met fans. She's a witch, I tell ya. ScarletKnight41 Jan 23 2006 08:43 PM Zvon wrote: She's a witch, I tell ya. How do you know? Zvon Jan 23 2006 10:00 PM ScarletKnight41 wrote: ="Zvon"] She's a witch, I tell ya. How do you know? cause .... she turned me into a newt! ScarletKnight41 Jan 23 2006 10:11 PM Zvon Jan 23 2006 10:13 PM ScarletKnight41 wrote: ....................................I got better. ScarletKnight41 Jan 23 2006 10:23 PM DocTee Jan 23 2006 11:57 PM Anyone have access to what peeps in Bal'mo are saying? I'm curious what their impression of this deal is. Edgy DC Jan 24 2006 12:20 AM Tony is pissed. Death to the mods. (Best handle in that thread: TejadaTheyFall.) Frobby went sour on Maine. He seceded from Maine, or... whatever. Olehippi says he was rushed. BigBird has a connection on the inside. The Sun says that Mazzone hearts Benson. Sapper says peeps are hypocrites for not jumping after fellow Benson Buncer Lowe. Initial reaction was mixed, but my initial read is more positive than negative. (The thread is over ten pages.) I like the fear that Julio could turn into Benitez. Edgy DC Jan 24 2006 12:29 AM ]How can anyone be 'sad' to see Julio leave? His fastball gets straighter every year. He gets visibly shaken everytime he gives up a hit. He has no good pitches, just one hard one. I will go help him pack his bags if he needs a hand. FruitLoopKid Bret Sabermetric Jan 24 2006 06:00 AM KC wrote: >>>Rather than 'fess up and admit that maybe my opinion wasn't quite as loony as he'd maintained, he preferred picking fight after tedious fight after never-ending fight with me, and then suddenly (when he found he was getting as good as he was giving) just began treating my posts as non-existent.<<< I don't think this fairly sums up what went down. You really frame it to make edge sound like a real bastardly prick and often it was you were the bastardly prick in the history of this small community. I find this fued to be terribly stressful and unecessary. It maikes me physically ill sometimes when this stuff flairs up. ILL. I think we've both been pricks from time to time, maybe me more than Edgy. I think the sentences you quoted, though, as are as accurate as memory allows, though I respect those who remember differently. For those who want to blame St. Edgy's persecution on me, I have to wonder if they also enjoy his tone with Rotblatt in this thread, or other posters from time to time, where he indulges in the same prickly, needlessly difficult baiting and parsing of terms and irrelevant nit-picking and far-fetched analogies and incessant harsh criticism and literalization of anyone else's analogies and other debating devices designed to frustrate St. Edgy's interloquitor rather than to further the discussion. Sorry to cause you stress. I was trying to answer Elster's question to me. I'll try not to discuss this topic in the future without a direct question before me. KC Jan 24 2006 06:46 AM Lol, yes our recollection of past events is very different. I'm not blaming Edgy's persecution on anyone, or even acknowledging that such a thing exists. Let's try and move on, for the fifty-sixth time. Bret Sabermetric Jan 24 2006 07:40 AM KC wrote: Lol, yes our recollection of past events is very different. I'm not blaming Edgy's persecution on anyone, or even acknowledging that such a thing exists. Let's try and move on, for the fifty-sixth time. So moved. I've written the first few pages of my story, which has set a new record for me: the word "fuck" ("fucked," actually) appears five words into the story, the closest to the beginning it has ever made its appearance in my work. "By the time I'd fucked half of my husband's teammates, I was reconsidering my vow. Not my wedding vows--Teddy and I were going to stay married to each other despite anyone's infidelities--but my vow to have sex with each and every one of his teammates, including coaches, managers and the training staff, if Teddy ever slept with another woman." And so on, for several pages so far. I like her voice, this Anna I've invented (a movie star, rather than a model, and far more articulate than, I think, than Anna is, though just as scatterbrained and loopy.) It's kind of fun, and a little creeepy, trying to think how Anna thinks. MFS62 Jan 24 2006 09:32 AM Is it easier to think how someone else thinks or write like someone else writes? Or is it the same thing? After writing song parodies on another board, someone asked me if I could write prose/ text in the styles of other writers. As a result, I've written pieces (with baseball themes) in the styles of: Anne Rice Star Trek (actually 8 of them) Mickey Spillaine Law and Order Charles Dickens Ian Flemming I've posted many of them here. The most difficult problem before you is probably the fact that you've used "Anna Benson" and "think" in the same sentence. Later Elster88 Jan 24 2006 09:50 AM ]We still don't have enough left handed middle relief so after all this, the pen is still not complete. Amazing isn't it? You'd think that after trading two starting pitchers almost exclusively for bullpen help (have to say "almost, or I'd get killed for not acknowledging our new stud prospects) we'd be able to fashion a complete bullpen. HappyRecap Jan 24 2006 01:39 PM not a complete pen Having read a lot of the posts on this topic, I sincerely hope the pen is not the group that will be heading north to NY in April. Maybe Minaya has some tinkering (really liked DickShot's trade idea from this past Saturday where we landed Zito) to do but outside of Wagner there doesn't seem to be guys who have a long track record for success. Then again, guys like Bell, Fortunato, Ring, Feliciano, etc...are all still here (I think) and maybe one of these guys will step up and be a season-long contributor. abogdan Jan 24 2006 01:44 PM ]The irrational part, to me, is decrying these trades as bad by thinking that the current crew of starters is necessarily any worse than the prior crew. But maybe that's what rankles so much; the starting rotation seems to be mired in mediocrity, no matter which of seven or eight pitchers land in the five starting spots. The current crew isn't worse, but at least when you have 7 to 8 "mediocre" starters, you have a better chance that one or two of them well put together above average seasons and be valuable contributors. Or, if one or two of them decline, you have someone to jump in and pitch mediocrely (just made that word up). If Seo or Trachsel sucked, there was Zambrano and Heilman waiting in the wings to step in and replace their crappy innings with mediocre ones. Now, if Zambrano and/or Heilman take a step backwards, there isn't anyone that the Mets can plug in and reasonably expect to be any sort of improvement. Edgy DC Jan 24 2006 01:52 PM I agree with you and try to oft say that redundancy is a good thing. they played off a lot of redundancy and that leaves me worried that the season is one broken finger or two blisters from breaking. G-FaFiF summed up the rotation like this: Pedro (toe), Glavine (age), Trachsel (rust), Zambrano (Zambrano) and...Heilman? This year, for better or worse, the Mets will be looking for the redundancy to come initially from Bannister, Soler, Maine and Iriki (I hear the music now) and maybe others in the second half. I guess we live in fear. I am glad the Mets got a prospect of sorts back. Johnny Dickshot Jan 24 2006 01:54 PM ]Iriki (I hear the music now) Iriki, you're so fine You're so fine you blow my mind Iriki (clap-stomp, stomp-clap) Iriki Elster88 Jan 24 2006 01:56 PM ]Zambrano (Zambrano) LOL. rpackrat Jan 24 2006 02:02 PM I disagree that the rotation is mediocre. In fact, I'll go so far as to predict that the Mets' starters will end up in the top 5 in the league in ERA+. That said, the Seo and Benson (and Cameron) trades were bad trades. Any time you get back less talent than you give up, it's a bad trade. If Omar had a little more patience, he could probably have filled his bullpen needs and gotten more (e.g., prospects or useful role players) as well. Frayed Knot Jan 24 2006 02:34 PM I think the "impatient" label applies better to the Cameron deal but less so to the others. The Benson trade in particular was months in the making and apprently went back and forth over the inclusion of a prospect. In the Benson & Seo cases, I think Omar believes: - that Julio's "power arm" means he's going to be better than his recent record shows - that the 'odd men out' were those two to remain in the rotation: most likely Heilman and Zambrano; will do at least as good a job and for considerably less money - that there's sufficient backup even beyond the new back-end guys (Maine, Bannister, Soler, Iriki) so that the rotation won't be in danger - and that the imported bullpen guys (Julio, Bradford, Sanchez) are better bets and were neccessary over the in-house wannabes: Ring, Bell, Fortunato, etc. Time will tell how all these bets turn out.

Is "no opinion" the same as "reserve judgment"? Anyway, that's what I put.

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is Mrs. Norman Maine."

Couldn't we get a Super Excellent Ace who Vetos Earned Runs?

Basically, Ray brought the same intensity to football (for Brown) that he was later to bring to acting, and he gave his all to this particular kick. But he got a little out in front of it, and and it went sailing over his head, Pele-bicycle-kick style, and landed about 30 yards behind him.

An irrelevant piece of trivia which just popped into my head. My friend Ray Barry ( Dead Man Walking, Year of the Dragon, Born on the Fourth of July, Training Day) holds the Ivy League record for longest punt in the wrong direction.

Is it the Fighters, sponsored by Nippon Ham, or the Ham Fighters, playing out of Nippon? I prefer to believe the latter. In any case, it's my favorite team name of all time.

Isn't he too old to be a coach?

Sounds good.

This is incredible. A list of every baseball game ever created. I found it searching for Fanfun, a game I played for a while in the 50s, before settling on APBA.

Foto-Electric Football was one of my favorites. The electriv part was a light bulb.

Nice article in the Times.

No, that's a correct recollection. It was early in his career. He probably knows it now.

I don't think it's necessary to be a fan of a team to be a good announcer. Probably a negative, in fact. Not to say I think Mike and the Dog would be even vaguely competent. I remember one time listening to a caller asking the Dog how slugging percentage was figured. The Dog had no idea. "Does it have anything to do with total bases?" the caller asked. "Nope, nohing to do with total bases."

What's the story on Eddie Camacho?

I know we've covered this ad nauseam, but I can't help bringing it up once more -- the disappearance of Rico Brogna, Good Fit. What keeps sticking in my craw is that the current thread header is a phrase inextricably connected to the MFYs.

Ah, yes, faith in Scott Boras.

]I'm hoping there is some way the MLB Hall can recognize the lifetime contribution to the game made by Max Patkin, the "Baseball Clown". Or Al Schact.

...and he lost me the song competition.

I saw Jim Piersall play in Fenway in the Fear Strikes Out season -- shortly before the crackup -- I remember being disappointed that he didn't do anything weird.