Yes they are all suspects. Ceetar wrote: No, I think saying they all are/were is as much of a washing of the hands as believing none are/were. It's unfortunately much harder than that. Maybe to you. It's not to me. Yes, you've applied the notion of relativism to many, many things. But there is a truth that exists beyond what is true to you and what is true to me. And that's what we mean to pursue in our discussions Put the guys in that performed to Hall of Fame levels on the field and stop worrying about if the special substances they took were legal, not legal, legal in baseball, or even helpful. It's certainly a valid argument, but there are other perspectives, and the actual criteria of the Hall of Fame challenge voters to take these other perspectives. Ceetar wrote: And if you want to play some sort of morality police... How patronizing. Ceetar wrote: ..., wait for actual freaking evidence of cheating the rules and regulations, not wild speculation or assumption. Wait. WAIT! YOU, a few posts up, without any concern for "freaking evidence," just declared all MLB players to be guilty.