Frayed Knot

="soupcan"]I understand your frustration but I don't know what you expect from the guys that are on the field. It's a rag-tag bunch of minor leaguers and journeymen and you are seeing why they are minor leaguers and journeymen. Again - not the team that was supposed to be out there. Except that - as Gary & Ron pointed out last night - it's not only the out-of-position/back-up guys who are making all these bad plays. It's understandable that the offense is suffering on account of being 3/4 a list of nobodies and why Wright's current slump is so much more glaring. But it's the bad plays on top of the expected decrease in output that is putting the few games where they have a fighting chance out of reach. Now again, that doesn't mean that the 'Wilpon is cheap', 'team was poorly constructed', 'Minaya is a moron' chants are any more true, only that the injuries can't be used as a catch-all excuse for everything.

More laughs & entertainment than the current Mets - and probably about the same amount of cursing & bloodshed.

I think the biggest fault as far as the [u:38pfp3c1]planning[/u:38pfp3c1] stage for this year's team is probably over-relying on power from the corner OF spots - particularly Murphy. He's a guy who had a very nice ~130 ABs last year but was hardly a minor league monster. It's tough to know that 2008's kind of offense will continue and particularly so to think it would be enough in a position (1st or LF) where you need the most offense. The fact that handing him the job was probably the one thing the whiners wanted most and that it turned out to be his defense that got him essentially kicked out LF are both kind of funny. Some might want to throw in over-reliance on Ollie but, again, the injury was at least as big a problem as the blow-ups and it's not like there were tons of better options floating all around. The big counter-argument is Lowe but if that one had (or does in the future) go south the 'why are they signing mid-30s guys to L-T contracts' whiners would come crawling out of the woodwork claiming that only an idiot wouldn't have seen it coming all along.

Dessens - 1.0 Redding - 0.5 Misch - 0.2 Green - 0.5 Cora - 0.5 Sheffiled - 0.5 Evans - 0.5

Phils tied w/Reds 3-3 in the 9th Twins in the process of losing their 345th game in a row to the Yanx. Most of them blowouts. 1-1/2 hours in and they're in the 4th. Braves lead Cubs 2-1 in the 6th

No XBHs since Friday.

Centerfield wrote: We're never going to win another game. Ever. Fuck that, we're never going to SCORE again. Ever.

Note to NYM pitchers: You can't put the fucking lead-off guys on in every god-damn inning and expect to get out of the mother-fucking inning unscathed!! Yes, Manny's hit was a shattered-bat piece of shit but when you allow the first two guys on, then walk the two guys IN FRONT OF MANNY you can't play the victim card when he dunks a dying fucking bird over the infield.

Pelfrey got 9 outs while giving up 12 baserunners ... even though the Dodgers hit maybe 2 balls hard the whole time. But, we had Wright not get off a good throw on a high bouncer Castillo make an error on an easy grounder Pelfrey seemingly pitching around Furball for no apparent reason (which led to the first 3 runs) Plus an assortment of bleeders and bloopers sandwiched around their few good hits

I had no problem with Castillo going to 3rd there. Screwing up the groundball, on the other hand, is another story.

Yeah, but stuffing the Yanquis in where they don't belong is a bigger crime than either Dillinger or Floyd ever committed.

I'd venture that - if we're just talking Y-T-D - that the closers have been very similar. Wagner was near perfect for the first 1/3 or so of 2008, shakey for the middle 1/3 (injury-related or not - who knows?), before becoming non-existent for the final 1/3 So far Frankie has followed a similar path of: perfect ... then not so much, although his fall probably a bit less dramatic than that of Wags. Of course that means that he could be only mediocre Frankie from here on out and still easily out-do what we got from the final pen spot in 2008. The rest of the pen kind of has similar low-hanging fruit to swat the rest of the way as the 2008 pen wasn't merely bad, it was historical bad.

Yeah, right below Tatis. I only went with the top 15 in each case figuring that you're just scraping the bottom of the barrel beyond that and dealing with increasingly smaller sample sizes. It's also just hair-splitting at that point anyway, 3.5/gm for Tatis vs 3.4 for Reed.

Offense at mid-season: [u:apb0gvq7]Players ranked by PAs[/u:apb0gvq7] Wright - Beltran - Castillo - Murphy - Church Sheffield - Cora - Tatis - Reyes - Santos Delgado - FMartinez - Schneider - Reed - Castro Cora & Santos being 7th & 10th while Reyes & Delgado are 9th & 11th says a lot. Castillo only 1 PA behind Beltran. [u:apb0gvq7]By Runs Created (Source Baseball-Ref)[/u:apb0gvq7]: Wright - Beltran - Sheffield - Castillo - Church Murphy - Reyes - Cora - Delgado - Santos Tatis - Castro - Schneider - Pagan - Reed This one is obviously largely dependent on playing time as well as production. [u:apb0gvq7]Runs Created per Game[/u:apb0gvq7]: Beltran - Delgado - Wright - Sheffiled - Pagan Reyes - Evans - Church - Cora - Castillo Schneider - Castro - Santos - Murphy - Tatis Takes the rate at which a player is producing the building blocks for runs into account. Nice showing by Pagan although that's a small sample he's working with (51 PAs)

="Benjamin Grimm"]I don't know if it would require a clause to permit it, or a clause to prohibit it. If possible, it would make more sense to demote him than to fire him, only because you'd have the chance to get off the hook for the remaining money in the event that someone else seeks to hire him. A clause to permit it I'm virtually positive. A contract like that would certainly be specific as to the job he's being hired for and wouldn't allow the Wilpons to reassign him without his approval.

Already a couple of small historical inaccuracies have been pointed out by various sources. - Dillinger is told that the Cubs vs the Yanx is the game he's hearing on the radio ... except that the movie takes place in 1933 & 34 and the only Cubs-Yanx WS was '32. - and he's shown watching 'Porky Pig' cartoons although PP didn't debut until '35

="Benjamin Grimm":2x5o6ynh]Me, I'm on board with firing Omar. How much is he slated to make over the next three years? And would the Mets have the option of reassigning him to other duties?[/quote:2x5o6ynh] Doubt it. Remember that Duquette was surprised to learn that he [u:2x5o6ynh]could[/u:2x5o6ynh] be demoted (at the same pay) and assigned to some other job (which he did briefly before escaping to Baltimore). My sense is that that was an unusual situation that they Wilpons were able to slip in there due to Duque's status as a first-time GM via an in-house promotion. I would be shocked if Mr. 'Full Autonomy' has a clause in his deal that would permit such stuff. Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2009 10:42 AM I don't know if it would require a clause to permit it, or a clause to prohibit it. If possible, it would make more sense to demote him than to fire him, only because you'd have the chance to get off the hook for the remaining money in the event that someone else seeks to hire him. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 10:45 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":cjj5wxd5]Hire a smart guy; someone who's been able to build a competitive team in a small market. Bring that kind of savvy to New York, and I think you'll really have something.[/quote:cjj5wxd5] Used to be Omar's resume. Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2009 10:46 AM I realized that after I clicked "Submit" I still think it's a good idea. They should just try it again. Frayed Knot Jul 07 2009 10:50 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]I don't know if it would require a clause to permit it, or a clause to prohibit it. If possible, it would make more sense to demote him than to fire him, only because you'd have the chance to get off the hook for the remaining money in the event that someone else seeks to hire him. A clause to permit it I'm virtually positive. A contract like that would certainly be specific as to the job he's being hired for and wouldn't allow the Wilpons to reassign him without his approval. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 10:51 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":2j7to2sa]I still think it's a good idea. They should just try it again.[/quote:2j7to2sa] I think they can by standing still. I'm not sure what Omar did this offseason that's hanging him. The two main things I can pin on him for are Manuel's performance and the medical staff's performance. If these are your problems, then these guys should go first, no? I mean, when Reyes, Cora, and Martinez all get hurt, is it really fair to indict a guy for not having a good enough fourth option at short? Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2009 10:57 AM Well, it's not like he was overly impressive prior to this past off-season. I'm not looking to "punish" him for any specific mistake he's made (and he's made a few) but I want a GM who's smarter than the average bear. And Omar's not that guy. So rather than let him continue to preside over the team's deterioration for the next three years, I'd prefer to see someone come in who can turn things around. Omar's not getting it done, and I don't think he's capable of getting it done. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 07 2009 11:03 AM Omar seemed to have badly overestimated what Muffy was capable of, offensively and defensively, and seemed to have spent most of his energy making a show of correcting last year's problems. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 11:06 AM Can we hire joelmon? metirish Jul 07 2009 11:09 AM I know Tony Bernazard was real big on Murphy , he scouted him and got him drafted. Minaya has had his shot here and aside from free agents I don't think he has done much. Some of the teams Manuel has had to field have been atrocious defensively , injuries haven't helped of course. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 11:18 AM Few GMs get fired mid-season, so I think, under any circumstances, he'll have enough time for the returning vets to make a cse for him or not. metirish Jul 07 2009 11:23 AM ="Edgy DC":2pe1j7jn]Few GMs get fired mid-season, so I think, under any circumstances, he'll have enough time for the returning vets to make a cse for him or not.[/quote:2pe1j7jn] Agree totally with that , I think Minaya has a few plays left anyway. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 11:28 AM See, I'm hoping he makes none. I think the trades that kill GMs are too often the ones they make to save seasons, or to put their team "over the top." John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 07 2009 11:31 AM I should say that if everyone stays healthy this was a fairly well-constructed team that may have -- but perhaps shouldn't have to -- carry Murphy. And at any rate adding Sheffield was a good idea. I more or less like Cora and Tatis and Reed as reserves and thought we had more flexibility and depth than many recent Met teams. OTOH, I felt better seasons than 08 out of any of the five men in the rotation would be a stretch and so far that's turned out to be true. Also for all the bullpen gymnastics the only thing vastly improved yoy is Feliciano 09 being better than Feliciano 08. metirish Jul 07 2009 11:35 AM The burden is heavy for Omar? Does Minaya really need to worry about this stuff too? ] By KEN BELSON Published: July 6, 2009 Even before the Mets were swept in Philadelphia last weekend, some of their fans were calling on the team�s general manager, Omar Minaya, to wave the white flag. They had seen enough inept play, deflating losses and debilitating injuries to call for Minaya to trade the team�s older players and stars for young prospects and try to field a more competitive team next season. �Throw in the towel and break up the Mets,� went one entry on The New York Times�s Bats blog from a writer named Ceadan. The writer added: �A midseason fire sale is needed. The Mets need to �weed and seed� and hope for the best with a revamped 2010 lineup.� The Mets are in third place, four and a half games behind the front-running Philadelphia Phillies, and they are certainly aware of the bind they are in. Minaya could trade some of the team�s few prospects for a midlevel player like Aubrey Huff, the Orioles� first baseman. But that may not be enough to keep the Mets in contention, and it could hobble them in years to come when they try to replace their aging players. Yet trading away stars, or even productive veterans, for prospects with no guarantee that they will perform as hoped could cause a more destructive chain of events. Sales of season tickets, luxury suites, concessions, parking and merchandise may decline. Advertising in the ballpark and on SNY, the team�s regional cable network, may slip, too. That is why people who follow the business of baseball say that the Mets are unlikely to make wholesale changes to their roster during the season, as some fans hope. �It would really impact their business model,� said Vince Gennaro, the author of �Diamond Dollars: The Economics of Winning in Baseball� who is a consultant to the Cleveland Indians and other teams. �It�s not just the perception of the lack of demand for tickets, but also the core problem of 10,000 empty seats that would cost them a fortune in lost revenue. SNY�s ratings would tank, too.� Teams in New York, where fans expect winners year after year, have been brutalized when they overhauled their clubs. Shea Stadium turned into a ghost town for seven years after the Mets traded Tom Seaver and Dave Kingman in 1977. When the Knicks finished in last place two seasons ago, there were thousands of empty seats at Madison Square Garden and chants of �Fire Isiah,� referring to Isiah Thomas, then the team�s president. The situation is different now for the Mets because they play in a new $800 million ballpark, not Shea Stadium, which was owned by the city. Like other new ballparks, the financing for the 41,800-seat Citi Field was based on the assumption that the team would have a steady stream of customers for its luxury boxes and premium seats, some of which cost $500 a game. If Minaya and the Mets organization signal to fans that 2009 is a lost cause and that 2010 may be, too, ticket sales for the remaining home games will suffer. Fans with tickets, already struggling to resell them at face value because of the team�s poor play, will be stuck with even bigger losses. At the same time, representatives from the Mets� ticket office would have a harder time trying to market season-ticket plans and suite rentals for 2010. When the team is in contention, fans feel more compelled to renew their ticket plans. But if they see that the team is being dismantled and sinking in the standings, they may opt for a cheaper plan or none at all. Companies, particularly smaller ones with limited entertainment budgets, may drop their seats or suites. �It just shows that when the dollars are that high, patience isn�t high on the list,� said Dan Migala, the director of the graduate school of sports business at Northwestern University. �You expect great things and great returns, whether you�re a fan spending a lot on tickets or owners spending a lot on players.� The Mets, of course, expect great things from their team. Executives at the club say that the team is a very good one that has been hit with a string of unfortunate injuries. When players like Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado return as expected after the All-Star break, the team should rebound. �Any talk of overhauling the team is grossly exaggerated at this point,� said Dave Howard, the Mets� vice president for operations. Howard added that the team�s finances were strong and would remain so once the economy rebounded. To be sure, the bonds issued to pay for Citi Field are backed partly by revenue from luxury suites and premium seats. Because the companies and individuals who buy them sign multiyear contracts, the Mets are in no imminent danger of failing to meet their obligations to bondholders. But if the team goes into a swoon that lasts several years, the situation could change, said Kurt Krummenacker, a vice president at Moody�s Investors Service, which rates the bonds issued to pay for the stadium at Baa3, the lowest investment grade. �We only have one year of revenue to work off of, and that�s benefited from the bump of the new stadium and the new-car feel,� he said. �But what happens next year is an open question.� NY Times Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 11:44 AM I don't think they should worry one iota about ticket demand being down. Not this season. ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3c50hou3]Also for all the bullpen gymnastics the only thing vastly improved you is Feliciano 09 being better than Feliciano 08.[/quote:3c50hou3] Well, bad stretch included, Rodriguez has cetainly outshone Wagner + Alaya (recently grabbed off waivers by the retread-shopping Marlins). I'm hanging bullpen performance on Jerry. This year, late last year and Willie the year plus befor that. They need to think about their usage. It's seemed too crazy for too long to me. Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2009 11:46 AM ="metirish":3bjnsn0o]="Edgy DC":3bjnsn0o]Few GMs get fired mid-season, so I think, under any circumstances, he'll have enough time for the returning vets to make a cse for him or not.[/quote:3bjnsn0o] Agree totally with that , I think Minaya has a few plays left anyway.[/quote:3bjnsn0o] I agree too. I'll wait until October 1 to fire him, and I'll give him the next three months to try to change my mind. Steve Phillips got fired mid-season, though. Offhand, I can't think of any others. Gwreck Jul 07 2009 11:49 AM I'd also suggest Green and Stokes (full year) have been better than the Heilman/Sanchez combo of last year. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 11:55 AM Stokes has rarely had similar responsibilities, however. Gwreck Jul 07 2009 11:57 AM Yeah, I guess it's really Green + Parnell vs. Heilman + Sanchez. I think the '09 version is still better. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 11:58 AM What about counting Putzie in there? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 07 2009 12:05 PM Well, I was saying year-to-date. Rodriguez has been better than Wagner (who isn't) but it's not so dramatic -- performance differences between top closers rarely are. Green, numbers-wise has been worse than Heilman thru the same date -- again though not by much. Add Parnell to the mix and it pretty much washes out. I was also wrong on Feliciano, the numbers suggest -- he was actually very similar too. In sum, it pretty much looks the same with a better top closer. Frayed Knot Jul 07 2009 12:13 PM I'd venture that - if we're just talking Y-T-D - that the closers have been very similar. Wagner was near perfect for the first 1/3 or so of 2008, shakey for the middle 1/3 (injury-related or not - who knows?), before becoming non-existent for the final 1/3 So far Frankie has followed a similar path of: perfect ... then not so much, although his fall probably a bit less dramatic than that of Wags. Of course that means that he could be only mediocre Frankie from here on out and still easily out-do what we got from the final pen spot in 2008. The rest of the pen kind of has similar low-hanging fruit to swat the rest of the way as the 2008 pen wasn't merely bad, it was historical bad. dgwphotography Jul 07 2009 12:30 PM This reminds me of July of 1973, when people were looking to fire someone from an injury-riddled team. Just sayin' bmfc1 Jul 07 2009 01:46 PM Omar has failed to make in-season improvements to help the team, both this season and last. He should have made a move a month ago but did not. (I know that we don't know what he tried to do, if anything.) He also didn't make any moves last year. He is great at spending money and luring FAs but weak at trading while the season in on-going. For the Mets, when healthy, not to win something, even the wild card, with the money they are spending and the stars they have is absurd and Omar should be taking the blame. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 01:55 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 07 2009 01:59 PM ]For the Mets, when healthy, not to win something, even the wild card, with the money they are spending and the stars they have is absurd and Omar should be taking the blame. Well, they're not healthy. And unfortunately a lot of the money is going to guys who aren't healthy. I hate trades period, buty I'm going to specifically again come out against making in-season trades to save a season during a lull as a measure of a GM. Cool heads and a community mindset get you through a crisis better. Remember George Bailey. bmfc1 Jul 07 2009 01:59 PM They were healthy last year. They were healthy the year before. It's not like Omar has a track record for making great in-season moves. The time to do something was a month ago, when they were in LA and Murphy was crapping around in LF and Reed was crapping around at 1B. Now, it may be too late. I hope not. Centerfield Jul 07 2009 02:35 PM ="dgwphotography":1ldnbplq]This reminds me of July of 1973, when people were looking to fire someone from an injury-riddled team. Just sayin'[/quote:1ldnbplq] You hear that Jerry? Hold back Johan for Game 7. Only a fool would trot him out there on 3 days rest for Game 6. Dumbass. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 07 2009 10:36 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 08 2009 12:47 AM It's not moves or lack of moves but the general mindset-- when roster building, you try and address potential problems preemptively, not post hoc. From 2006-07 (replace brittle, offensive-inclined LF with same and trade live arms for marginal SP candidates; ignore actual pitching upgrades, potential holes at 2B, other corner OF) to 2007-08 (get Santana; ignore brittle LF/depth issues/bullpen holes) to 2008-09 (fix bullpen/fill SP holes with plethora of "#5s"; assuming return to form by Castillo, ignores 2B and corner OF offensive deficiencies), Minaya seems caught in a loop wherein he spends each offseason addressing the biggest problems of last year, while apparently neglecting to consider potential problem areas that have existed since 2005-2006 (insufficient offensive depth to weather injuries to 1-2 members of the "core," e.g.). Whether this rearview-mirror approach to problem-solving is a function of his own thinking or how he relates to his employers is almost immaterial at this point; after three years, it's clear that's how he does business as the nominal head of baseball operations. As the head of the Mets, he's got resources with which to work-- money-wise, it's the second- or third-largest purse in the majors. With a little more foresight, this team could be nigh-unstoppable; instead, it's crumbling to pieces, in the prime years of its ultravaluable core. With his gifts for relationship-building, trade negotiations and player relations, he seems to make a fantastic assistant GM; it's become increasingly clear that he seems to lack the organizational "vision thing" required to be a superlative GM and run a consistently improving organization. OlerudOwned Jul 07 2009 11:15 PM He gave Luis Castillo a 4 year extension, which says a lot about his foresight. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 13 2009 12:50 AM Yeesh, this is depressing. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/07/11/2009-07-11_meet_the_mess.html metirish Jul 13 2009 09:07 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":395f8x5x]Yeesh, this is depressing. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/07/11/2009-07-11_meet_the_mess.html[/quote:395f8x5x] Some interesting reading , mostly all old ground but nice to have it all in one article. Mets insiders whoever they are portraying Reyes as soft is a new one to me . The Players Association looking into how the Mets treat injured players is new to me too. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 13 2009 09:40 AM ="metirish":1bzocfjg]="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1bzocfjg]Yeesh, this is depressing. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2009/07/11/2009-07-11_meet_the_mess.html[/quote:1bzocfjg] Some interesting reading , mostly all old ground but nice to have it all in one article. Mets insiders whoever they are portraying Reyes as soft is a new one to me . The Players Association looking into how the Mets treat injured players is new to me too.[/quote:1bzocfjg] Considering that he spends the previous 16 column inches trashing the judgement of virtually all "Mets insiders" in decision-making roles, I think Rubin's pretty clearly making an implicit argument there. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 13 2009 11:31 AM ]What Minaya almost undoubtedly seems to have done-- if you don't take the cynical view that this was a trade-for-trade's-sake situation-- is that he's made a scout's-mindset trade. One could also argue that some of his worst acquisitions-- Perez, e.g.-- seem to occur when he lets this mindset predominate. Sorry about quoting myself, but I posted this in the "Church-Francoeur" semantics debate, and it kinda got lost in the shuffle. I've seen this echoed in a few places this morning-- that Rubin piece from yesterday being one-- and wondered what the heads here thought. I also wonder whether Minaya's made a basic mistake of a first-time or otherwise inexperienced manager-- surrounding himself with folk with whom he has history/who are "on board" with what he's doing, rather than folk whose skills and talents complement his own (i.e., stat analysis folk who can offer counterpoint when discussing player evaluations). Edgy DC Jul 13 2009 11:41 AM Oliver Perez was one of his worst acquisitions? Perez-Hernandez-for-Nady trade is probably on the negative side of the ledger, but I don't think it's close to the worst. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 13 2009 11:43 AM I don't get the impression it's all very complicated with Omar. He swapped one flawed asset for another and perhaps in his estimation, a RH-hitting flawed guy was better than LH hitting flawed guy. I think he also believes in the value of new scenery. As has been remarked elsewhere, Church and Francoeur both could be nontendered this offseason, so what;s so bad about a 3-month gamble. Finally I think when in doubt Omar errs toward "talent" -- "show me talent and I'll show you on-base percentage" as he says. And he certainly believes Francoeur has "talent." Benjamin Grimm Jul 13 2009 11:49 AM ="Edgy DC"]Oliver Perez was one of his worst acquisitions? Perez' reacquisition hasn't looked at all good so far, but that original trade with the Pirates wasn't too bad. Edgy DC Jul 13 2009 11:50 AM Edgy DC likes this. metirish Jul 13 2009 11:51 AM " something needed to be done" is what I have been hearing and reading in various forms since the trade. I may even have uttered it myself. Ron Darling has said it three times that I heard , as have a few other talking heads on SNY. I think Cohen took that view too. Not a way I want the team I support to be run but at least he didn't wake up and trade away a Grade A prospect for a middle of the road talent. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 13 2009 11:59 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]="Edgy DC"]Oliver Perez was one of his worst acquisitions? Perez' reacquisition hasn't looked at all good so far, but that original trade with the Pirates wasn't too bad. Should've been clearer-- the Perez trade was a decent move (in conception, at least) to fill both an immediate need and a looming one. The Perez signing was... well, "reprehensible" is a bit strong, but "detestable" might fit the bill. (Personally, I was a Lowe-and-Sheets guy, then Lowe-and pay-Sheets-a-mil-to-rehab guy, then I-guess-we've-got-him-so-go-Ollie guy.) And I think the exact wrong time to make a move is when "we have to make a move." Desperation is a stinky cologne. Frayed Knot Jul 13 2009 02:08 PM ]The Perez signing was... well, "reprehensible" is a bit strong, but "detestable" might fit the bill. (Personally, I was a Lowe-and-Sheets guy, then Lowe-and pay-Sheets-a-mil-to-rehab guy, then I-guess-we've-got-him-so-go-Ollie guy.) In fairness to the Ollie signing -- which certainly looks like shit at the moment seeing as how he's missed over half of this half-season -- I'd take what he gave us for the last two complete seasons: 63 starts; 371 IP; 320 Hits; 354 Ks; ~3.90 ERA; ~1.35 WHiP and had no problem thinking that he could more or less continue along those lines for 3 more at his age. You wanna haggle about the price go ahead but I'm not sure he could have been had for much less. As for Lowe he's certainly doing OK in 2009 (although a higher ERA & WHiP than the Ollie stats above) but neither he nor Ollie was going to be a one-year commitment (in which case I would have preferred Lowe too) and are we really going to now get on Omar's case for NOT signing a 36 y/o pitcher to a long-term contract? I think I've brought this up before but Lowe was older, more expensive, a longer commitment, and not as good a track record as compared to Glavine at the time of his NYM signing. Yet we all seem to know now that TG was a mistake all along while DL was the way to go. Sheets, meanwhile, isn't pitching because he physically can't pitch and it seems uncertain as to when he'll ever pitch again. Maybe he's great next year but Sheets has had a lot of maybes in his career and too many maybes haven't worked out in Queens lately. And, of course, signing none of the above would have just pushed the Livan/Niese/Nieve/Redding alternatives to the 5th, 4th, 3rd slot that much quicker and for that much longer. Benjamin Grimm Jul 13 2009 02:19 PM Not that it matters now, but I was hoping at the time that Randy Wolf would get some consideration. He would have been cheaper than Perez and better than Redding. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 13 2009 02:29 PM Ollie's problem was getting out of shape and/or injured this winter, I'm not ready to call him a lost cause yet. And in general I'm not as strongly behind some of the metrics telling me Ollie sucks as I am with those that would suggest Francoeur sucks. G-Fafif Jul 13 2009 02:37 PM If Ollie were someone else (which, granted, he's not) and had turned in the kind of performance he had last week after missing two months, he'd be widely praised for gutting it out without his best stuff and showing he knows how to win. Edgy DC Jul 13 2009 02:59 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 14 2009 12:47 PM Derek Lowe's up by 5 o'clock Derek Lowe's givin' it all he got Derek Lowe's job is six to nine but Derek Lowe's home by nine O five Derek Lowe helps to cook the steak Derek Lowe helps to wash the plates Derek Lowe puts the kids to bed Derek Lowe reads a book to them (Why cant you be like Derek Lowe?) Derek Lowe loves Atlanta so Derek Lowe loves to wind and throw Derek Lowe's pitch has great command But Derek Lowe don't make no demands Derek Lowe's always back in time Derek Lowe's not the injured kind Derek Lowe's full of compliment Derek Lowe's such a gentleman (Why cant you be like Derek Lowe?) Cause I'm free Free of any control pitcher qualities Thank God I'm free Cos it's hard enough for me To take care of me, oh-oh Derek Lowe's carryin' a heavy load but Derek Lowe never really ever moans Derek Lowe's such a healthy guy But Derek Lowe let's the others try Derek Lowe's got ideas and plans Derek Lowe's what you call a real man Derek Lowe always will provide 'Cuz Derek Lowe is the family type (Why cant you be like Derek Lowe?) 'Cause I'm free Free as an ex-Pirate pitching now in NYC Thank God I'm free Driftin' all around just like a tumbleweed, oh-oh Maybe I need a coach Someone who won't reproach Maybe an older fan base Will tolerate me Maybe that organization A kinder Metly nation Maybe the perfect situation To satisfy me Derek Lowe keeps his body clean Derek Lowe don't use nicotine Derek Lowe don't drink alcohol Derek Lowe use no drugs at all Derek Lowe don't eat any sweet Derek Lowe don't eat piggie's feet Derek Lowe's frame is mighty strong Derek Lowe make love hard and long (Why cant you be like Derek Lowe?) Derek Lowe loves the ladies so Derek Lowe walks 'em to the sto' Derek Lowe likes to hold their hands Derek Lowe's proud to understand Derek Lowe stands for decency Derek Lowe means formality Derek Lowe's the epitome Derek Lowe stands for quality Derek Lowe Derek Lowe Derek Lowe Derek Lowe LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 13 2009 03:16 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":303i3b2c]Ollie's problem was getting out of shape and/or injured this winter, I'm not ready to call him a lost cause yet. And in general I'm not as strongly behind some of the metrics telling me Ollie sucks as I am with those that would suggest Francoeur sucks.[/quote:303i3b2c] That's because ALL the metrics tell you Francoeur sucks. (Offensive WAR-related metrics ARE a bit more foolproof than pitching... and EVERYTHING'S a lot more reliable than even the best stabs at defensive measurement... at least until that crazy new robot defense metric happens. Funny thing, though, innit-- even among statheads, offense comes first.) LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 13 2009 03:18 PM ="G-Fafif":3jr34d60]If Ollie were someone else (which, granted, he's not) and had turned in the kind of performance he had last week after missing two months, he'd be widely praised for gutting it out without his best stuff and showing he knows how to win.[/quote:3jr34d60] I don't know about "widely," but he's mostly been given qualified praise in most quarters, near as I can tell. Perez performs perfectly fine when peaking. It's precision that's the problem. Triple Dee Jul 14 2009 12:40 AM I always believed Perez's problems are more mental and the fact he let himself go during a walk year really speaks volumes on this. It's almost as though he believes he'll never recapture the form of his NL Cy Young winning year.* * I fail to acknowledge the actual 2004 NL Cy Young Award Winner. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 14 2009 12:34 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3ny2lecp]="G-Fafif":3ny2lecp]If Ollie were someone else (which, granted, he's not) and had turned in the kind of performance he had last week after missing two months, he'd be widely praised for gutting it out without his best stuff and showing he knows how to win.[/quote:3ny2lecp] I don't know about "widely," but he's mostly been given qualified praise in most quarters, near as I can tell. Perez performs perfectly fine when peaking. It's precision that's the problem.[/quote:3ny2lecp] Upon further review... I'm-a have to call "bullspit." NOBODY walks 7 in 5 innings and gets praised for it; that he got as little grief/concern about it is a function of how hit-or-miss people expect Ollie to be at this point.

]Mr. Met -- will not be replaced by m.e.t.b.o.t or creepy sun baby I think this is the most brilliant part of the analysis - even if 'creepy sun baby' has become the unofficial CPF mascot of the 2009 Mets season.

The NYM system was rated about average (17th in fact) by Baseball America prior to this season. Not that that stops an awful lot of people from "knowing" that it's the worst system in baseball (not specifically talking about those in Rubin's article). The subject of minor league prospects is definitely one area that supports the saying about how a little bit of knowledge is frequently worse than none at all. Now of course that kind of rating is subject to interpretation and different sources can and will have varying opinions. Plus "average" doesn't always mean the same thing. Two teams might be side by side in such a ranking but have completely different systems. One might have fewer but higher ceiling-ed and closer-to-ready prospects while the other has more plentiful stock but ones who are more questionable about their future and further from being ready.

In that Yanqui game. Toronto closer Jason Frasor faced 8 batters, got 4 of them out while giving up 2 earned runs plus an inherited run, coughed up 3 hits plus a walk ... and earned a save. Also Jeter was stealing 3rd and was going to be out by about 5 feet but looks like was missed on a phantom tag. Jays got the out call anyway but the funny part is where the Yanx are acting as if this is the first time this has ever occurred. Apparently the 3rd base ump didn't help matters much by admitting the tag was missed but that he was using the old 'the ball beat you' reasoning (or so claim the Yanx). It's a dumb call in this day of slo-mo, HD, and large screens, and even dumber admitting it (assuming that's true) but stop acting as if this is baseball's first case of this just because it might be the first time YOU were on the receiving end.

B Jays hammered Pettitte for all 7 runs and were cruising into the 7th. But then the Yanx scored 2 in the 7th plus 1 in the 8th while leaving the bases loaded (Swisher flew out). Then, after 2 were out and none on in the 9th, they tacked on 2 more and had two on when the final out was made. Eric Hinske, starting his 1st MFY game and had HR'd for their 1st run, made the final out. I was in full paranoid mode that those fuckers were going to pull that one out. Phils now up 18-1 Cubs 4 - Braves 2 = final Oakland smokes BoSox in Nomar's 1st game there since being dealt away in 2004. 2 hits for NGP

This stuff starts because someone speculates that Rios could be moved and then looks around at which teams that can handle a big contract need an OFer and starts playing matchmaker. None of that means that the teams have talked. I did hear Rios mentioned in conjunction w/the Mets but only via talk radio by someone clearly making shit up. Specifically he said they need to trade Rios in order to be able to sign Halladay & Wells -- except that Halladay is signed thru 2010 and Wells is inked at Beltran-type money thru about 2014. And even if Rios is available - and I suspect he might be (Hey look, I'm another "source") - it's because he is owed hefty money for the next 5 years or so which is just about the same length of time that his stats have been steadily dropping.

Misch - 2.0 Parnell - 0.6 Dessens - 0.5 Church - 2.0 Evans - 1.0 Schneider - 1.0

Nieve - 1.5 Stokes - 0.4 Feliciano - 0.8 Cora - 1.2 Evans - 0.5 Misch - 0.2