Frayed Knot

Wow. Greinke has only had one season that merits this kind of contract. He's been good otherwise, but, wow. To expand on that a bit further, Greinke has received ZERO CY votes with the exception of the one season (2009) when he won it almost unanimously (25 of 28 1st place votes). To his credit he did beat some pitching royalty that year as Felix Hernandez, Justin Verlander, CC Sabathia & Roy Halladay finished 2nd through 5th, but, compared to Greinke ... - Hernandez won his the following season and also had seasons with a 2nd & 4th place finish and he's 2-1/2 years younger - Verlander won his in 2011 AND has three top-five finishes AND placed 7th & 11th in two other years AND snagged a little thing we like to call the MVP award. - Sabathia won his in 2007 plus has four other seasons where he placed top-five - Halladay has won twice plus has four other top-fives And even the top of that year's NL class shows a lot more post-season ink: 1st - Tim Lincecum - two wins plus a 6th & a 10th 2nd - Chris Carpenter: One win plus a runner-up & a 3rd 3rd - Adam Wainwright: No wins but a place and a show 4th - Javier Vazquez: one 4th place finish 5th - Dan Haren: Once in 5th, once in 7th Not that CY voting is the final word on anything, but it does paint a picture of a pitcher who's often good though rarely great and not really in the class of others who have received (or in the case of Hernandez, probably will soon) that kind of money. Greinke just turned 29.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Some have said that this might mean Olt for Dickey. Yup. - it could mean that the Rangers need to now trade for pitching since they didn't get the pitcher they wanted - or it means they really want to trade for pitching so they'll have the cushion to trade away other pitching for the likes of Upton - or it means they'll be more likely to throw the money not spent on Greinke towards resigning Hamilton and will have less need for Olt's bat Or maybe it means none of that. What do I know?

2nd richest contract for pitcher ever (CC Sabathia) By some thinking, this was the deal that has been holding up other stuff (see: mega-deal thread). Texas, now that it did not get Greinke, might be more likely to re-sign Hamilton because they don't have the pitching to trade and maybe ends their pursuit of younger Upton and on down the line of dominoes.

Michael Young goes to Philly in a deal for two minor league pitchers. Young had spent his entire career with Texas where he was the franchise leader (Texas version anyway) in games, at-bats, runs, hits, doubles and triples. A bit sad when that happens but he's seemed increasingly less happy there for a couple of years now. I guess he's slated for 3B duty in Philly. That'll give them a pretty good hitting infield although one that's old enough (36, 34, 34, 33) to scream 'Get off My Lawn' at any opposing batters who reach base.

Yeah, except that the WATP designation was originally concocted due to an overload of those types of proposals - and I know because I was the one who concocted it. It wasn't intended as a ban necessarily, just that all such posts should be labeled with that as a warning for those too weary to slog through another one of them. IIRC, the general criteria was that a WATP was: - for any deal involving more than two teams or more than seven players - all "serial" trades where players A, B, & C were dealt away to obtain D, E & F only to immediately flip E & F plus G & H to another team for a few other bodies - and any trade that employed the phrase: "and then maybe t'row in a coupla prospects"

Yup. Lots of moving parts and exponentially more details to work out. That's why trades involving more than two teams were one of the criteria under the original definition of a "WATP".

Rumored deals like this (multiple teams, All-Stars plus prospects) [u:3ls4nbdm]don't[/u:3ls4nbdm] happen a lot more often than they do, and the latest dispatches have Seattle balking, but they're still fun to follow. Various rumors starting sometime yesterday have it that if Texas can sign Zack Greinke they'd be willing to part with pitcher Derek Holland in order to get Justin Upton. So Upton would go to Texas, Holland would get sent to Seattle, Cleveland would send their SS Asdrubal Cabrera to Arizona, and various prospects from those teams (including Texas's Mike Olt) would wind up with the rebuilding Indians.

I have a feeling that "just poor judgement I suppose" is a phrase used to describe a lot of things Jordany does.

Of all the proposed (made up?) prospects in Dickey deals, I like the idea of Dee & Lee the least. As was said above, you've got a 1970's-ish SS on the one hand. And then not only are pitching prospects notoriously tougher to project, but we also need pitching the least. Give me power (particularly in the OF) and/or a good catcher. Neither of these two fit my idea of the "impact players" Sandy says he wants.

Mets � Willets Point wrote: Isn't that the guy from Twisted Sister? Only if we give him ABNS's haircut.

So the response to the ARod injury is apparently to throw a big-bucks ($12mil) one-year offer at Kevin Youkilis. Youkilis supposedly has an offer from the Indians (and Francona) and has had discussions with others as well.

The reports on Olt's defense at 3B are excellent but the reports on his overall athleticism are as well and I think, should this rumored proposal come true, it would be a no-brainer to stick him in RF even if his speed and arm play no better than mediocre out there. If the projections of his bat are accurate his offense shouldn't be a liability anywhere, and if they're not then, well then we're in trouble anyway. Worst thing that happens otherwise is that he shifts in to 3B in a few years when Wright gets moved across the diamond.

Both Olt & D'Arnaud are major prospects, probably will be along with Myers from KC in the top dozen in the whole circuit this winter. Olt should be young enough and athletic enough to play elsewhere on the diamond which of course he'd have to if we got him.

Ceetar wrote: Nothing wrong with doing someone a favor, you never know when you're going to need one of your own. Sure, unless you're a team that was slated to pick after the Mets but ahead of the Tigers who really, really wanted Kyle Lobstein. If I were that team and feel that the Mets agreed to help out the Tigers simply because Sandy is palsy-walsy with Dombrowski and at no benefit to themselves, I think I'd complain to the commish about it. Bottom line is, I suspect the cash the Mets got by "trading" Lobstein to the Tigers is more than the 50K they paid for him in the first place, but I don't know that or know if there are rules that say how much more. Of course, these favors sorta circumvent the "no trading picks" rules, and you'd think they'd eventually get to legitimately being able to trade them, and perhaps in the other 4 rule drafts. Although you CAN trade one of the supplemental picks you get from..somewhere. something to do with finances? Starting in this June's draft there will be a handful of extra draft picks inserted somewhere into the process under the guise of "competitive balance picks" which, yes, can (and already have been) swapped although I've yet to figure out how and under what circumstances they're distributed.

Phillies also reportedly in talks w/Texas to acquire Michael Young - I guess they figured their infield isn't yet old enough. I presume Young will play 3rd if this goes through, or maybe 2nd if they decide (as was hinted at several times last year) to move Utley to the corner spot.

metirish wrote: A Boy Named Seo wrote: Mets picked 10th, Tigers 20th. Tiggs were probably afraid he'd be gone at 20 so Dave Dombrowski offered the Mets the $46 dollars he had on him, Sandy countered with "Miguel Cabrera", Dombrowski then lowered his offer to $40, and Sandy took it. lol And that's probably a reasonably accurate assessment too. Of course it costs a team $50,000 just to make one of these picks so the selling price is at least that although whether the Mets were able to get that additional 40 bucks off Dombrowski above and beyond that 50K is speculation. I have no idea if it's kosher for a team to 'do a favor' like that and, in effect, rearrange the picking order in exchange for no money at all or if there's some kind of standard "finder's fee" for securing the player. I kind of picture the owners sitting around a big, smoke-filled room making up these sort of unwritten rules with their GMs sitting behind them making sure their drink glasses are filled, etc. "Don Wilpon must share those minor leaguers he controls in his pockets like so many nickels and dimes. Of course he has the right to charge a fee for such services. After all, we are not communists here"

Well, looks like the Phils got their CFer Revere (Ben, no known relation to Paul) was the guy assumed to be replacing the recently traded Denard (Spic and) Span but it looks like Minnesota decided this week that they don't want young, speedy outfielders anymore. Pitcher Trevor May also going to the Twins in the deal. May, a 4th round pick in 2008, was considered a pretty good prospect coming off his 2011 season in the Fla St Lg but stumbled this past year at AA

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Internets say the Mets are expected to flip this Lobster fellow to Detroit or the Marlins. Traded to the Tigers for cash. Tigers apparently wanted him and were concerned that he wouldn't still be available when their shot came around, hence it was all a pre-arranged deal. No players taken or lost by the Mets in the minor league portions of the process.

metsmarathon wrote: ... using similarity scores as presented on bbref to project out a player's career is bunk. just stop it. Or, more accurately, using ONE player on the similarity list to project out a player's career is especially bunk if the majority of that list shows otherwise. And hey look, he's not wrong to say that this might not all work out before the deal is done. It's just that picking and choosing your evidence skews things towards the pre-determined conclusion, and doing so with a guy whose demise was so obviously caused by chronic shoulder injuries makes it even more so.

MFS'62: "Anyhow, what time (Eastern) is the Rule V Draft today?" 10 AM Eastern Presumably the AA & AA phases follow right after. Mets pick 10th and currently have 37 names on their 40-man roster. Twenty names to watch

Well, we, and even reporters, certainly don't know/hear everything. But it's safe to assume that insiders make it their business to know what going on on the inside; in this case meaning Dickey's agent probably has some idea of the who, the what, the if, and the odds of any potential deal involving his #1 (and possibly only) client and so wouldn't be flying totally blind if/when the Mets came to him with a take-it-or-leave-it offer.

Andy Martino, in this morning's Daily News, says that the Mets are "sitting on at least one acceptable deal" for Dickey. No further details. So, taking that at face value while also assuming there are no other potential deals, the inevitable step is to go to Dickey and tell him that you've got a move that you like so either he signs for X or they'll pull the trigger and move him. Of course there are a number of different ways to interpret Martino's line: - "acceptable" can be read as "only OK" and they'd prefer to keep him so long as his demands aren't totally outrageous - that they're bullshitting but want this story out there so that RAD feels pressured to sign for their number/length - that they'll continue to shop for better offers because there's really no hard deadline on this thing - that Dickey's camp knows the specifics of the offer (is anything a complete secret in winter meetings?) and are willing to call the team's bluff that they'll actually do it and so on

Actually, that was just Terry's delicate way of letting it slip that Wheeler's going to be plucked by Toronto in today's Rule 5 draft.

Valadius wrote: Also wouldn't shock me if Nieuwenhuis started the year out in Vegas Vegas? When the hell did this happen? An entire four-page thread explaining it all -- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18359

I think Duda's slated for LF, hopefully with some guy who knows what he's doing in RF. I had the same thought Swannie had about Schierholtz before he signed, a real good fielder w/a true RF arm who would have been a better fit if he swung RH. Also wouldn't shock me if Nieuwenhuis started the year out in Vegas although that would mean they need to pick someone up who can play CF - and in my mind I don't think that includes Valdy.