Frayed Knot

Yeah, that's the kind of deal you'd pull the trigger on if you're coming off an 89 win season and just know that you're one player away. But when you're a 79 win team still hoping that you're on the cusp of contending and will have only one year of control over the only player you get out of the deal, you have every right to balk at the price. Gotta love the inventiveness of the deal though!

So the (not yet official) signing of Asdrubal Cabrera by Tampa Bay has the tongues of NYM watchers a-wagging about the availability of either Yunel Escobar and/or Ben Zobrist. So the answer to the question as to which of Zobrist or Escobar the Rays would trade appears to be: BOTH!! ... and in the same deal no less. The SF Chronicle reports that a swap to send both middle-IFers to the A's is nearing completion with Oakland sending catcher John Jaso eastward along with two minor leaguers. And the Korean SS Jung-Ho Kang appears to be on the verge of a four-year deal with Pittsburgh who had previously won his negotiating rights. The two sides have until Jan 20th to complete a deal.

Edgy MD wrote: I'm just not clear at how this election diminishes the Hall. It doesn't -- in fact it seems to do the opposite IMO -- except for those who think that anyone who doesn't vote for their choices are idiots - and there seems to be a lot of that right now. This anger has been building up for a couple of years now and it seems to be due to several factors. - obviously the steroid era has thrown a wrench into the works. the backlog now contains a half-dozen or more guys who aren't being cleared in either direction; they're not getting voted in but are still getting enough votes to not get dropped. - I think we're at a conjunction where old-timey writers are butting heads with younger analytic-types with neither camp holding a majority and both camps being very pro some guys and anti others (call them the JackMorrites vs the Tim Rainesians). Again this contributes to a backlog as the faves of each group are getting neither enough support to go over the top nor fall off the back. - There's been five 1st-ballot electees in the past two classes. I haven't researched that but I'll bet that's unusual at best and maybe a first overall. Those votes both take away from the borderline guys like Piazza or Raines and, when combined with the backlog, create situations where writers are opting not to vote for the no-brainers in order to give their votes to the ones whom they think need the support. So it's not like 9% of the voters truly thought that Pedro didn't deserve election (and therefore deserve a flogging and/or their voting privileges revoked) it's that they chose to cast those votes elsewhere. One partial solution I heard to this (oddly, perhaps, from Curt Schilling) is that any 1st ballot votes should not count against the ten. It might be a compromise between those favoring unlimited voting (which could cheapen each individual vote) and at the same time relieve temporarily crowded ballots due to the size or strength of that year's incoming class. All that said, I've heard enough sober commentary from inside the BBWAA (reasonable guys like Richard Justice, Tim Kurkjian, Buster Olney) that contends that the system needs some degree of reform with their main complaint seeming to be the lifetime privileges still retained by those who no longer follow the sport professionally and maybe not at all. Justice in particular suggested that the process would be better if the voting body were reduced by maybe 1/3

Ceetar wrote: well, they've already expanded it to electronic media. Writers via electronic media, yes, but not yet anyone outside the writing community which eliminates the informed Costas, Olbemann, BB2N types. Hell, it eliminates Vin Scully. But, again, the problem comes with once you step over that line to non-writers how do you keep it from the half-wits?

Nymr83 wrote: -they need more voters than just writers, but i'm not sure who this should be That's the tough part. That there are writers who barely cover baseball anymore who do vote while others who know as much baseball as anyone -- like Gary Cohen and Bob Costas just to pick two -- can't is a problem. But at least by designating the BBWAA as the sole arbiter, and by them requiring a minimum of ten years in it, you at least establish a set of criteria that needs to be earned before a ballot is granted. By expanding it to, say, electronic media you start to run into the question not only of who gets a ballot but of who decides who gets a ballot. Being inclusive all sounds good until every geek at ESPN, who thinks they know the sport (whenever they're not mocking it that is) because they once played Fantasy and because they make wisecracks over highlights a couple days a week, is suddenly demanding a right to vote for the HoF.

Jayson Werth could miss the beginning of the season as there are (as yet unconfirmed) reports that he's about the undergo shoulder surgery which will require a 2-3 month recovery period. Not sure how the surgery and recovery schedule will mesh with his potential prison schedule.

And in case one is wondering about the impact of perception and image on fans and writers, check out the (small) differences in 162 game/avgs between two 20 year career players with near identical plate appearances (12,504 vs 12,602). [table:184sajbz][tr:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]PA[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]AB[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]H[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]2B[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]3B[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]HR[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]SB[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]CS[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]BB[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]K[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]BA[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]OBA[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]SLG[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]OPS+[/td:184sajbz][/tr:184sajbz] [tr:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]711[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]618[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]174[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]38[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]3[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]17[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]24[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]7[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]66[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]100[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz].281[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz].363[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz].433[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]112[/td:184sajbz][/tr:184sajbz] [tr:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]743[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]660[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]204[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]32[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]4[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]15[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]21[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]6[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]64[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]109[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz].310[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz].377[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz].440[/td:184sajbz][td:184sajbz]115[/td:184sajbz][/tr:184sajbz][/table:184sajbz] One, it turns out, had a career which inspires calls for induction by unanimous acclimation and/or a waiving of the five-year waiting period. The other needed three elections to get in, peaked at a low-80's pct approval, and will continue to be dismissed as "a compiler" in certain circles.

One can't underestimate the nostalgia for the Healey/Drew/C.Young era, each added so many weeks of memories to Yanqui lore.

Stephen Drew looks like he's returning to the Skanks

I heard (longtime Boston writer) Dan Shaughnessy recently talking about how he's gone overboard at times to vote For guys that he personally disliked (Jim Rice, Curt Schilliing) just so it couldn't be said that he was voting against them for personal reasons. In Piazza's case, I doubt there are more than a handful of writers who even read his book much less cared about it enough to base their votes on it.

I don't know that perceived personal likes or dislikes enter into things as much as is often assumed. Non-votes, even the ones you may not agree with, usually have more logical explanations. - non 1st-ballot worthy. I personally despise this reasoning, and it no longer applies to MP here, but we all know it goes on. - writer disagrees that he's HoF worthy. In Piazza's case I'm sure some will make the argument that he wasn't a complete enough player - others more worthy of vote and he ran out of choices. We all know about the log-jam that has cropped up over the last few years due to several factors. It seems like that's going to lessen in the near future and if all that happens is that some get in on their 4th year of eligibility rather than their 1st or 2nd it won't be the end of the world - others more worthy and writer self-limits to even fewer than ten. Noble this year falls into this one as the idea of more than two at a time is apparently too crass for his tastes - PED suspicion. Some are going to ignore this, some are going to apply it to the worst cheaters only, and others are using the topic to deny anyone where there was even a hint of a rumor

Randy Johnson - Traded at age 25 after 10 ML starts + 1 relief appearance John Smoltz - Traded as a 20 y/o minor leaguer Pedro Martinez - Traded at age 22 after 67 games pitched but just 2 starts There might be a lesson in there somewhere but I think it's subject to interpretation.

Nymr83 wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: Going Once ... Going Twice ... give me a few days to maybe get to it I'll close things out Sunday night (12th)

Going Once ... Going Twice ...

Edgy MD wrote: He is now a strapping 6'2", 220-pound 15-year-old ... There oughta be a rule against getting that big in only 15 years. I think age 15 is about the time I was tipping the scales at ONE-Twenty!

Aaron Harang takes his third NL East stop in three years as he inks a one-year deal with Philly. Remember (even if you don't want to) that he started 4 games with the Mets at the tail end of 2013, and then made 33 starts with decent results [12-12, 3.57 ERA] for the Braves last season. Turns 37 in May

Yanx and Braves swap a couple of arms. To NYY: reliever David Carpenter and minor league LHP Chasen Shreve To Cobb County: Manny Banuelos Banuelos was one of the (very prematurely named) so-called 'Killer Bees' when Yanx fans jumped to the conclusion that Banuelos was going to combine with Dellin Betances and the since released Andrew Brackman to dominate MLB for many years to come. But he then had arm trouble and is just now making his way back. Carpenter, 30 next July, was a real good arm out of the Braves pen in '13 but a little less so in '14 Shreve got in some games late last year.

Agreed that he should be looked at, but he may not be a SS and he's almost certainly not going to be a 2015 solution even if he is.

Phil send Marlon Byrd plus cash to the Reds for pitching prospect Ben (not Blake) Lively (23 y/o in March, 4th round pick in 2013, pitched in A+ & AA in 2014)

Gee did have a terrific 'year' if you count it from June '13 through May '14, and while he's had injuries they've not been of the structural arm variety (I'd be more leery of trading for Niese if I were other teams for that very reason - lost velocity, etc.). And do keep in mind that this is for all of one year of Zobrist and it's the year he turns 34 (does he even get 600 ABs on this team?). So while the ultimate price of this theoretical exercise might wind up as Gee-plus, it would be plus much if I were calling the shots.

I agree. Good catching prospects, even if they're still just prospects, don't grow on trees and giving one up for a one-year player isn't a good idea IMO. Looking at things from Tampa's POV, Gee will make less money than Zobrist in 2015, is five years younger, has a 3.85 ERA over his last 3 seasons/71 starts, and is under control for 3 more years. Would we really need to sweeten the pot much beyond that? Do they need pitching? ... Everyone needs pitching.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He's in his free agent walk year, correct? I would imagine that if the Mets traded for him, it would be as a one-year rental. Yes. Zobrist's 2015 season will be the second of two option years (TB already picked up the option at season's end) that were tacked onto the end of a four year contract dating back to 2010 and it's not like he's in any position to be able to force any extension beyond that. Nor should the Mets be anxious to give an in-advance extension to a soon-to-be 34 y/o and so I assume if a trade went down that they'd simply let the season play out and take things from there. Also, alphabetically speaking, Don Zimmer has been the last Met on the list since April 11, 1962. Ben Zobrist would end that very long streak. Well, hell, if that isn't the last piece of evidence that this needs to get done immediately then we might as well all just pack it in!

I think the two of them need look no more.

Going off the ones on Vic's list, I've seen: THE OBVIOUS CHILD and GONE GIRL. There may have been others but, if so, I can't think of them at the moment. Now I just have to decide which order to place them in. on edit: also saw ABOUT LAST NIGHT and MONUMENTS MEN those two are definitely #s 3 and 4 on the list.

One more asset: Knows. How. To party. Although he and wifey, a Christian signer apparently, have a book out that talks about "the importance of his faith, life, and athletic career" and "gives fans a first look into the heart of an athlete whose talent and devotion to God, family, and baseball make him one of the most loveable figures in the Major League today" ... so maybe those parties won't be as wild as we hope.