batmagadanleadoff

Edgy DC wrote: I'm not sure what the question means, something sporting at my expense I guess, but no, I mean following the 1971 season, at the time of the trade. Just kidding. Not at your expense. Never. Are you saying that Willie would've retired after '71? Don't forget, he played almost the first third of '72 in SanFran. And his '71 season was highly effective, if not customary Mays. He altered his hitting approach to compensate for loss of bat speed, and would thus, foul off pitches purposely. He led the league in BB's and OBP in '71 with that approach and OBP'd over .400 in '72.

Edgy DC wrote: ... rather than retire. Never?

Edgy DC wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Last time I checked, Joan Payson was dead. She held up her end of the deal. If I buy someone's house, aren't I allowed to change the furniture? Or re-paint the kitchen? There are no rules here. Anything goes. The owner can do whatever he wants to do. He certainly can. Rules aren't involved, but honor is. I don't think too many of us would be pleased if he unretired 37 or 14 because they were retired on somebody else's watch. I think you'd agree --- at least with regards to other issues (the stadium, the rotunda) --- that management would do well to think of themselves as stewards of a franchise and not merely holders who can dispose of, forsake, or realign the legacy with contempt for those who've invested in it. I agree, totally. But 24 isn't retired. And personally, I've always resented the aggrandizement of the Mays Mets legacy. But perhaps older fans might disagree ... the Polo Grounds new breeders, or the even older fans who saw Willie play for the NY Giants. I see it narrowly. The Mets aren't the Giants. The Mets are the Mets. Though I wouldn't mind, and in fact would welcome a section of Citi Field that honors both the NY Giants and the Brooklyn Dodgers, more or less equally. And on a scale that's logically proportionate to the honoring of the Mets. (That was a shot at the Rotunda, whose honoree I shall not mention, and that I would tear down instantly, or downsize or remodel as soon as I was approved as owner).

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Last time I checked, Joan Payson was dead. She held up her end of the deal. If I buy someone's house, aren't I allowed to change the furniture? Or re-paint the kitchen? There are no rules here. Anything goes. The owner can do whatever he wants to do. I mean, whatever the logic for mothballing #24, I don't think that the Wilpons, three or four owners removed, should be bound by Payson's promise. Personally, I doubt the Wilpons ever wanted to retire #24. I don't buy the tale about the team unwittingly assigning it to Torve. There probably isn't a player in all of baseball more closely associated with a uni # than Mays and 24. Especially 20+ years ago, and especially in NY. How could they not know? The story is lamer than the dog ate my homework. I think the Mets knew exactly what they were doing when they let Torve wear 24, but caved in to fan pressure when, reportedly, a large number of fans called the team to complain. They've had 20+ years since to officially retire #24. They don't wanna do it. Because if they did, what the hell are they waiting for? You don't make an 80 year old guy wait for this. They gave 24 to Torve because they didn't wanna retire it in the first place. But they didn't have the balls to follow through on their conviction.

Last time I checked, Joan Payson was dead. She held up her end of the deal. If I buy someone's house, aren't I allowed to change the furniture? Or re-paint the kitchen? There are no rules here. Anything goes. The owner can do whatever he wants to do.

You think the powder blues with the maroon "P" evoke warmer memories? The first think I think of is Schmidt and Luzinski launching rockets off of Puleo, Bomback and Pacella into the Shea sky and into the farthest sections of the old Vet.

Swan Swan H wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'd say anybody anybody. Same for number 8. Agree. Totally. "And Rickey says that circulation is good for the soul". Retire it, or don't, but this pseudo-retirement of numbers is annoying. It brings to mind the ridiculousness when some Yankee ended up in 21 and their 'fans' game him all sorts of shit because it was Paul O'Neill's number. Retire it, or don't, but if it's not retired it should be issued. Do you want to have a sort of legacy for numbers, like some hockey teams do - 9 is almost always a scoring winger, 2-5 usually defensemen? I'm fine with that, but then they should be giving 16 to Harvey and not to Rob Fucking Johnson. You're right. Give Rob Fucking Johnson fucking #8. He's a fucking catcher. Oh. And it makes my blood boil whenever a Met is issued O'Neill's "21". That was Warren Spahn's number. [/rolls eyes sarcastically]

Ceetar wrote: I think there's something to the team with the best record in the league having to sit around and figure out where they're playing instead of sitting cozy at home saying "We're the best, who's going to come take us on?" If they don't like it, they could switch slots with one of the two wild card teams.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'll have some! A nice cold glass eliminate!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'd say anybody anybody. Same for number 8. Agree. Totally. "And Rickey says that circulation is good for the soul".

BASEBALL; In a Bruising Outing, the Mets Rally and Win By JOE SEXTON Published: August 10, 1990 There was blood, both bad and real. There were bruises, to egos as well as to arms and legs. Oh, and there was a ball game, too. That, the Mets won, defeating the Philadelphia Phillies last night, 5-4, at Shea Stadium. The game was obscured by a fifth-inning brawl, a tangled affair that took 20 minutes to defuse and one that will no doubt require an official National League inquiry to fully sort out. The Mets and the Phillies, teams with a history of hostility toward each other, last night staged a ferocious slugfest, a full card of wild matchups that included an umpire scoring the night's most dramatic takedown as well as the ejections of six players and a coach. A Hush in the Dugout ''Scary,'' said Bud Harrelson, the manager of the Mets. ''Nasty,'' said Randy Marsh, the home-plate umpire. ''The dugout was pretty quiet after it,'' said Howard Johnson, the Mets third baseman whose bat produced the evening's most devastating haymaker. There was plenty to be sobered by. The melee, one that may have traced its origins to an exchange of threatening pitches in Wednesday afternoon's game between the two teams, erupted in the fifth when Pat Combs's first pitch of the inning drilled Dwight Gooden in the knee. Gooden, who hit two Phillies with pitches in the first five innings, instantly tore off his helmet and headed for the mound. He was tackled from behind and punched repeatedly from on top by Darren Daulton, the Philadelphia catcher. ''I wasn't sure what he was going to do,'' Gooden said of Combs, denying he had intentionally hit either Dickie Thon or Tom Herr. ''I was going to take one pitch and see what happened. You've got to do what you've got to do.'' Leyva Lauds Combs Nick Leyva, the manager of the Phillies, said: ''Combs did the right thing. That's the way the game should be played.'' No game, though, was played for the next 20 minutes as serious scraps and bizarre standoffs broke out, incidents that included Joe West, an umpire, dumping Dennis Cook, a pitcher for the Phillies, to the infield dirt, and Darryl Strawberry, one of Gooden's best friends, becoming his most public defender. Strawberry, unable to get to Daulton, got pitched to the ground for his trouble. Gooden, Strawberry and Tim Teufel were eventually ejected for the Mets. Combs, Daulton and Cook were banished for the Phillies. ''It's the worst I've seen in a while,'' said Marsh, who said he had police reinforcements in mind as a last resort. ''It was a bad situation, and it kept dragging on.'' The game didn't exactly wrap itself up neatly once it was resumed. The Mets, trailing by 3-1 at the moment of the fight, struck for three runs in the sixth as Johnson cranked a two-run homer to level the score and Kelvin Torve set off more crowd noise than he probably had in his 10 years in the minor leagues with his two-run double to right center one out later. The onslaught helped the Mets pull within a half-game of the first-place Pirates in the National League East after Pittsburgh lost to the Montreal Expos. Dykstra Drives in 3 Even so, the Mets were far from secure. Len Dykstra drove in his third run of the night with his fourth hit of the game in the eighth off John Franco to make the score 5-4. In the ninth, Franco permitted runners to reach first and third. ''I wasn't,'' Franco said, ''as sharp as I'd have liked to be.'' This was understandable on a night when everybody, it seemed, was on edge. 'Hey, we're not afraid to fight anyone,'' Johnson said. ''Teams ask for it, it's obvious what reaction they'll get. It did wake us up.'' The entire episode was likely set in motion during Wednesday's 8-4 triumph by the Mets when Philadelphia's Don Carman and the Mets' David Cone exchanged stares and dangerous pitches of questionable intent. The lingering uneasiness was restored when Gooden hit Thon with a pitch in the second and then plunked Herr in the fifth. ''It ran through my mind that two of their guys had now been hit,'' Johnson said. ''Then I started to think of yesterday. You got the sense. . . . Marsh, anyway, maintained that he never believed Gooden was throwing at the Phillies but that Combs had specifically targeted Gooden. ''It was obvious,'' the umpire said.

Mets' Finishing in Turmoil on Field and Off By CLIFTON BROWN Published: September 28, 1989 The Mets made more news off the field yesterday than on it. Davey Johnson had separate meetings earlier in the day with both Frank Cashen and Joe McIlvaine to discuss the Mets' downfall this season. The Mets' manager said he admitted he may have been too lenient on his players this season. Whether that admission will lead to his dismissal as manager remains to be seen. Johnson has two seasons remaining on his contract, with the club having the option to renew it for a third season. ''It was an amicable meeting but I guess they give you a big meal before they pull the trigger,'' Johnson said. ''Every manager feels a bit uneasy about his future. If it's time for a change, it's time for a change. It's not going to make me bitter toward anyone in life or in the organization. It's not going to take away from my nine years here. 'Liberties Taken' ''My handling of players in the past has always been, 'You're a professional, you know what you have to do to get ready.' I don't want to interfere with that. I want guys to be relaxed. But it was apparent to me that liberties were taken that conceivably could have affected performance this year. I think the majority of players would welcome a little more regimented atmosphere.'' Darryl Strawberry, in the meantime, said he will not sign a contract extension with the Mets during the off season, regardless of what the Mets offer. Strawberry also plans to meet with Cashen when the season ends to discuss whether the team would consider trading Strawberry, preferably to a West coast team. The comments of Strawberry and Johnson overshadowed last night's game at Shea Stadium, which the Mets lost, 5-3, to the Phillies. An emotional moment occurred when both Keith Hernandez and Gary Carter made pinch-hit appearances. Both will be free agents after the season and may not be offered new contracts by the Mets. After Hernandez flied out in the eighth inning, he tipped his cap to the cheering crowd, a farewell gesture in what may have been his last home game as a Met. Carter delivered a pinch-hit double in the ninth inning, and he also tipped his cap, then left the game to a huge ovation. Fight Breaks Out The game ended on a bizarre note, when Gregg Jefferies and Roger McDowell of the Phillies fought in the infield after the final out. Jefferies and McDowell, a former Met, exchanged words as Jefferies ran down the first-base line. After the final out, Jefferies and McDowell screamed at each other, then Jefferies charged McDowell. Both benches emptied to separate the two players. ''Roger screamed something at Gregg,'' Johnson said. ''It went back to Monday night, when Roger screamed something at Gregg after he broke Gregg's bat. Obviously there's bad blood between them.'' Jefferies refused to comment on the incident. McDowell claimed Jefferies started the incident by cursing at him. ''I pitched him inside a little on Monday, so I guess that's what it was all about,'' McDowell said. Nick Leyva, Philadelphia's manager, defended McDowell by saying that Jefferies is not popular among his own teammates, then Leyva said, ''There were 30 guys on our side rooting for Roger and 20 guys on their side rooting for Roger.'' Strawberry can become a free agent after next season, the option year on his current contract. The Mets have until one week after the World Series ends to inform Strawberry whether they will pick up his option. Strawberry's contract calls for him to earn $1.8 million next season. ''I've been thinking about this and I'm not going to demand a trade, but I'm going to talk with Frank after the season's over,'' Strawberry said. Welcomes Trade ''I've got a lot of pride. I play baseball for fun, but as long as I'm here, I'll be the guy blamed for everything. I've stood up to it. I've taken it. But I think it's time for a change. I have nothing against the fans or New York. But the only thing that will probably make me happy is a change in scenery.'' Asked what he would do if Strawberry asked to be traded, Cashen said, ''It's a hypothetical question. He hasn't said anything to me, so I don't have an answer.'' Assuming the Mets pick up the option on his contract for next season and do not trade him, Strawberry said he will play 1990 with the Mets, then he will strongly consider signing with another team. This has been Strawberry's most frustrating and disappointing season with the Mets. He is batting .225, with 29 home runs and 77 r.b.i. Strawberry struggled throughout August and September when the Mets desperately needed his offense from the cleanup position. Yet Strawberry feels he has been unfairly targeted for blame in the Mets' failure to win the National League East. ''Everybody's entitled to one bad season, and this has been mine,'' Strawberry said. ''I just didn't hit. ''People say if I don't hit, the Mets don't win. It will be like that as long as I'm in New York.''

Gwreck wrote: I don't understand the significance of the picture. You must commune with your inner Rorschach.

The minimum # of interleague games each team has to play to make next year's schedule work is about 11 (162/15). OE -- figure about one or two games over 11 to account for off days, etc.

...and then there was one.

For tomorrow, we can discuss the similarities between Bryce Harper and Dan Murphy to decide whether Sandy Alderson should acquire the Nat rookie phenom.

I'll bet anything that the Mets'll suck doodyballs next year, just the same as this year, and it won't make a damn difference what oufielder (or outfielders) the Mets might get from outside the organization because, given the money Sandy'll have to spend, they'll be lucky to get another Andres Torres. Really. Who mentioned Bautista? Who here thinks the Mets are gonna pick up someone's $14M a year contract for a guy -- one guy -- about as old as Jason Bay? $14M for one player? Toto, I've a feeling we're still gonna spend like the team in Kansas City.

David is on pace to pass Krane on Saturday, September 22, 2012, at home against Miami.

Who are the only major leaguers who appeared in at least 250 games for both the Mets and the Astros? Who are the only major leaguer pitchers to have started at least 50 games for both the Mets and the Astros? The answers are: Rusty Staub Nolan Ryan Mike Scott Carl Everett Pete Harnisch Jeff Kent Ray Knight Jose Vizcaino and Tim Bogar, who I thought was the toughest of the answers, and who appeared on what has to be the oddest cover in the history of Mets scorecards.

Lotsa future talent on those young Colts.

Best Mets/Astros trade ever (Mets POV) New York Mets traded Tom Parsons to the Houston Astros for Jerry Grote on October 19, 1965. Worst Mets/Astros trade ever (Mets POV) New York Mets traded Mike Scott to the Houston Astros for Danny Heep on December 10, 1982.

Jerry Grote? Only 103 games played with the Colts/Astros. The Colt .45s all rookie lineup from their 9/27/63 game against the Mets: the only time a Major League Baseball team started nine rookies. The Colt .45s' All-Rookie Team Back row: Brock Davis (LF), Aaron Pointer (RF), Jimmy Wynn (CF) Middle row: Glenn Vaughan (3B), Sonny Jackson (SS), Joe Morgan (2B), Rusty Staub (1B) Front row: Jay Dahl (P), Jerry Grote © http://www.astrosdaily.com/history/19630927/