batmagadanleadoff

d'Kong76 wrote: I mostly agree too. But, when he says the forum doesn't get it all he's doing is looking to poke some of us with a stick. Fuck it, won't be the first time he's made me take some time off. Let's go Mets. So where did I write that "the forum" doesn't get it? Show me. Name names. I'm just tired of reading posts that state that money doesn't matter, that the Mets don't need to spend more money, that all the money in the world wouldn't improve this team be even one simple win. It's ridiculous. Take it up with them when you read their posts. You won't though, not in million years, because your responses are based on the poster and not the post. You're accusing me of poking sticks at you? That's even funnier than the idea that the Mets might get Jay Bruce this year.

d'Kong76 wrote: Don't dismiss me bro, I'm just asking you to show your work. You asked Ceetar how he drew his conclusions earlier in the thread. My asking you to do the same is no different. What? You want me to name names? Have you no sense of decency?

d'Kong76 wrote: There's very little of that here. A little. A lot. It's all subjective. d'Kong76 wrote: Please provide examples. What for? That'll result in a lot of pleasantries. Draw your own conclusions. Or pretend that I make this shit up.

d'Kong76 wrote: There's very little of that here. Please provide examples. Bullshit. What for?

Ceetar wrote: I'm not really sure what the point of being at the top of the payroll standings does for the Mets exactly. I've been reading this line of thinking on this forum from you and a couple of others for what, years now, I think. I guess you and a couple of others here must believe that it wouldn't make a difference if the Mets had an additional 30 or 40 or 50 million dollars a year to spend on payroll ... that those dozens of extra millions of dollars a year wouldn't be able to improve the team at all. Ceetar wrote: We don't know the specifics or how much), the Mets chose to run the team a different way than flat out spending. It's working. THAT is the goal, not the spending. We must have different standards. At no other time in the history of baseball has there been a stronger correlation between payroll levels and team wins. And the Mets, who play in the most lucrative market in the world ... do I have to finish this sentence? They haven't had a winning record in almost a decade. What's working?

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: But it's not the Titanic if they are in first place in mid-August and ... Financially speaking ....

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John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm unsure as to why Bruce is even an issue on August 10. Me too. I'm not the one(s) who made Bruce an issue. Yes you did. That entire article you posted boiled down to this idea : had the Mets subsequently added Jay Bruce and his $12 million 2016 salary, it would have dispelled at least the idea that they couldn't add that much salary. I didn't read the piece as being about Bruce. In fact, I didn't even notice that Bruce was in the piece until I re-read it after I responded to Edgy's post. If anything, I think, Bruce was merely HM's latest prop to demonstrate the Mets poverty. You could probably substitute Gomez (or any $10M/year player, really) for Bruce to make the exact same point. Unless you believe that the Mets backed away from Gomez because of his hip. Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Wait, the Mets made a series of moves, including a very big one involving one prospect who was years away (and in the one area where have a surplus of talent) in exchange for arguably the best hitter on the market. Said moves appear to propel team into first place in mid-August for the first time since, what, 2009? and some of you guys are STILL unhappy? Why can't we? It's not black and white. I can revel in the happenings of the last two weeks or so, about as thrilling a two-week run as any in franchise history. And at the same time, I can still acknowledge that the Mets are embarrasingly broke and are run by owners who, by all reason, should be forced to sell the team by the league. If the Mets win the pennant this year, something that's no longer implausible, they should give the MVP award to Sandy Alderson because Sandy Alderson is basically, steering the Titanic.

Edgy MD wrote: I'm unsure as to why Bruce is even an issue on August 10. Me too. I'm not the one(s) who made Bruce an issue.

Edgy MD wrote: Of course they could have afforded Bruce if he was their guy. He's scarcely more expensive than Cespedes prorated for two months. Yeah, I suppose the Mets could continue to swap prospects to rent high-value players in the walk years of their contracts. Of course, Bruce isn't a free agent and would cost the Mets about $20M through 2016 (a season and a third). How do you get to pro-rate Bruce over two months? I doubt the Mets are in a position to pick up that kind of contract. If they're collecting on Wright's insurance policy, (and I'm not sure that that info gets disclosed) their true payroll is probably 10 or 15% lower than whatever's reflected in salary databases like Cot's. They didn't reinvest the Santana and Bay contracts. The Wright insurance money isn't going into the team. So the puny payroll, remarkably, still continues to shrink. I don't think Bruce is happening.

Ceetar wrote: it was pretty clearly about the hip and not finances, previous red flags or assumptions about the Mets finances aren't really necessary. And you know this to be true because ........?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: We're already there. The Mets have already gone 14 years without appearing in a World Series. (2001 through 2014). The previous high was 13. (1987 through 1999) Before that it was 12 years. (1974 through 1985). If this pattern holds, the Mets will win the pennant in 2015 but that will be followed by a 15-year drought, ending with a pennant in 2031. Right you are. Sloppy me. I simply counted the years, but not the months or weeks or days.

If the Mets don't win the pennant this year, we will officially be in the longest stretch in franchise history without a World Series appearance. Not as bad as the Cubs, though.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Really, was anyone here expecting a "sorry, guys, I was the wrong the whole time!" piece had they made a deal for Bruce instead? Oh you're killing me. What's the abbreviation for rolling on the floor laughing my ass off? I'm so bad at all that internet fancy lingo and stuff. As if the Mets could afford Jay Bruce. Howie nailed it. And then Leiter nailed it for recognizing that Howie nailed it in the first place. Here's some Megdal sass that really hit home with me: Presumably, the largely ironic shoutout Alderson gave to Fred Wilpon and his partners for this basic bit of treating the team like a baseball team and not merely a machine to help finance their parent company's debts drew laughter within a baseball ops department repeatedly asked to thread the thinnest of needles. Because I can't tell you how fucking annoying it was to have to read all week long how segments of the mainstream press gave the Wilpons the thumbs up treatment for "allowing" Alderson to acquire Cespedes. Because, really, what the fuck did the Wilpons do? They didn't add any salary. In fact, by presumably pocketing the money from Wright's insurance policy, the Mets actually lowered the Spring Training payroll -- which is what I thought they'd do all along -- probably by trading Gee for prospects in a salary dump -- but Wheeler's injury foreclosed that option. So in the end, they didn't open up the wallet to get Cespedes. They didn't trade their top-tier prospects, either. (I'm not necessarily complaining here, just noting). What they did do is "allow" Alderson to deal prospects that weren't at the top of the deck. What other options were there? Did anyone expect Alderson to acquire a big bat by packaging Mayberry, Campbell and Alex Torres? So the Wilpons are now getting credit even though they once again, handcuffed their GM. And then Megdal just shredded the idea that it was the Brewers that nixed the Gomez deal. Not that we know for sure what really happened, but from what we do know, and given how this franchise has been run for many years now, it's hard to believe that the Brewers puled out. Occam's Razor. That article wouldn't have been any worse even if Madoff was mentioned in the first sentence. The imprint of the Mets dire financial situation is all over that transaction and in fact, every single thing that the FO does.

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And now, a word from your old friend, HM ... On a budget, the Mets go for broke By Howard Megdal 8:33 p.m. | Jul. 31, 2015 There are reasons to be deeply concerned about the way the last week transpired for the New York Mets. But general manager Sandy Alderson, by completing his third and biggest trade Friday afternoon for outfielder Yoenis Cespedes, has relegated those concerns to 2016 and beyond. Mets ownership did not, in the end, provide a dollar of help beyond the money it had already budgeted, and is now recouping, from the injured David Wright and twice-suspended Jenrry Mejia. But the trade significantly improved the team anyway, and the Mets are in position to challenge the Nationals in the NL East. By dealing minor league pitchers Michael Fulmer and Luis Cessa on Friday afternoon, Alderson also served a public relations panacea to an outraged fan base after a deal for Carlos Gomez was scuttled at the last moment. Cespedes is a big bat and a big name, but without the salary obligation beyond 2015. For teams with real budgets, Gomez's 2016 salary was an asset, which is why he was quickly traded for a king's ransom on prospects after the Mets balked. Cespedes, however, is a free agent after the season. But that, of course, is a 2016 problem. For now, it's full speed ahead trying to secure a playoff berth, and Cespedes should help with that. On Gomez: the Mets asserted it was over concerns about his hip, while Milwaukee let it be known that the deal was cancelled over financial concerns from the Mets. Alderson forcefully denied this Friday afternoon, and the Mets have been uniform on this point on background as well. The subsequent actions certainly support the Brewers more than the Mets on this, however. The Mets, according to the Brewers, wanted some help with Gomez's $9 million salary in 2016. And once the deal fell apart, the Mets did not take on a penny in 2016 obligations this week. While failing to do so certainly doesn't prove the Brewers right, had the Mets subsequently added Jay Bruce and his $12 million 2016 salary, it would have dispelled at least the idea that they couldn't add that much salary. Moreover, the Brewers subsequently traded Gomez to the Astros, a notoriously finicky team about injury prevention, and it certainly stretches credibility to imagine the Astros okayed a damaged Gomez hip that the Mets, a team well known for, let's say, a more laissez faire approach to injuries found too problematic. So this is the opportunity cost, really, of not having the option to take on any contracts, or money generally. Gomez plays center field, while the Cespedes acquisition may push Curtis Granderson's far more limited defensive ability to center if Michael Cuddyer returns from a knee injury. But the Mets also could have added Cespedes and Gomez to an outfield in need of help in both center and a corner. There was always Jose Reyes to improve at shortstop, owed $22 million in 2016 and 2017. These were not, ultimately, things Sandy Alderson could do, and none of it would have pushed the team in the league's largest market, which owns its own TV network, into the top third of the league in payroll. All of which makes the upgrades Alderson did find even more remarkable. In Cespedes, the Mets added someone who instantly becomes their best hitter: a 125 OPS+ is just ahead of Lucas Duda's 121 and Curtis Granderson's 119. Juan Uribe and Kelly Johnson are league average hitters who can fill in credibly at positions of need like third base, second base and even first base and corner outfield in Johnson's case. And Tyler Clippard is not only a useful reliever, he specializes in getting lefties out, critical on a team lacking a true lefty specialist. That all of this came at the low, low cost of the money they'd recouped from David Wright's insured contract and the $2.39 million Mejia won't be paid in 2015 for missing all but 20 days of the season due to PED suspensions can even count as a victory itself, since ownership actually reinvested most of this already-budgeted money in the team. Presumably, the largely ironic shoutout Alderson gave to Fred Wilpon and his partners for this basic bit of treating the team like a baseball team and not merely a machine to help finance their parent company's debts drew laughter within a baseball ops department repeatedly asked to thread the thinnest of needles. Nevertheless, that's just what they've done. They won't recoup a pick when Cespedes leaves via free agency, of course, another reason teams prefer not to trade for players in their walk years. Teams around baseball, the Mets included, love Fulmer, who they had to give up to get Cespedes. And this Mets team will have to answer many of the same roster questions in 2016 without these rentals, while the way the Gomez deal fell apart leaves legitimate concern over just how much, if any resources, Mets ownership will give Alderson to address it all this winter, assuming additional players aren't surprisingly suspended or sufficiently injured to trigger additional insurance rebates. (Michael Cuddyer, here's looking at you.) But every one of these are 2016 and beyond problems. The 2015 Mets are three games out entering Friday's play, in striking distance of the division-leading Nationals, and as equipped for a pennant race as a team with these financial limitations could possibly be. For fans told since the day Bernie Madoff went bust to keep on waiting, that already qualifies as a cause for celebration. http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/media/2015/07/8573189/budget-mets-go-broke#

That's an unusual photo of the Koosman LIFE magazine cover, because it's missing the mailing address label that was affixed to the cover of subscribers' magazines. Newsstand copies were, obviously, sold without mailing label/stickers, but the issue photographed above is not a newsstand issue because the newsstand version of that particular magazine sold with a flap layered over the cover, about three or four inches wide, with copy/text listing the main articles inside the mag. But because the photo above came from Time-Life, anything is possible. They might've doctored the photo to remove the flap ... or ripped the flap off neatly ... or that could be an issue taken from stock designated for subscribers, but reserved for Time-Life's archives before a mailing label was ever affixed.

MFS62 wrote: I'll save you some extra work. LaTroy Hawkins has pitched for every team. You don't have to find his card. We'll understand. Later Four players seem to always come up when I do these threads. I'd bet I've never done one of these card threads without at least one and probably two of these four players coming up. The four players are Hawkins, Octavio Dotel, Todd Zeile and Ty Wigginton. All four are in this thread.

G-Fafif wrote: EY Sr. an intentional interloper? Good eyeballs on you. I had to leave out Junior Eric, otherwise the interloper would have been too obvious with both Youngs appearing. But now that the cat's out of the bag, I could put EYJ into this thread.

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Edited to include Kelly Johnson, the 2d "Kelly" Met-Ray.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I hear Eric O'Flaherty will be there Him and that beautiful scoreboard that I expect to be filled with home team goose eggs.

Anyone going to the game tonight?

Fman99 wrote: I think the downturn came immediately after he got doinked on the knee by a pitch at the tail end of May. His numbers went right into the can after that. I am guessing that it took much of June/July for the knee to stop bothering him, at which point he was able to start driving the ball again. That's about what I thought. I figgered he had some injury that didn't keep him out of the lineup, but hampered him. Welcome back, Lucas. Welcome back, New York Mets.

TransMonk wrote: I've probably asked this several times before over the years, back can you re-explain how the "net games back" number on your charts are calculated? I fail to remember every year. Not to worry. In July, NGB's are beyond meaningless. But to illustrate, Miami, the 4th place team in the East has an NGB of 27. That's because the Marlins are 12 games behind the Nats, 10 games behind the Mets and five games behind the Braves. 12 + 10 + 5 =27. There you go.