Centerfield

Reports are that the Mets are still mulling over the QO. Not sure that is true or not, but man, what is there to mull over. You extend the QO without question. Come on guys.

Ceetar wrote: those numbers convert roughly to an extra 12 million in income. of course, it comes with other things. the purchases in the park, surely. Ad revenue both on SNY and in the park advertisements. That's where any gripe should come. It makes fiscal sense, regardless of ownership, to not spend more than you pull in and all signs point to that. But what numbers do you use? Does the stadium sponsorship come in? Ad revenue from SNY? I don't think they're counting that, and I contend that they should. I'm okay with them spending down loan and debt associated with the stadium and the team itself. Sure, if you want to apportion the sponsorship to paying the stadium loan, go for it. I don't need them paying off Sterling loans. But who's to say? No one has access to those numbers. We know they're spending the direct revenue from the team, but what about the rest of it? Have YOU seen their books? Why is even worth speculating? They run their business that I'm a fan of, and they're clearly doing a good job of it. They got a pretty damn good result and I'm happy with that. I think you are misunderstanding my point. I don't care if the Mets are profiting or losing money. I don't want to look at those numbers, nor do I think looking at them would be productive. Here is why. If the Mets are not spending because they are taking profits and using them for other business ventures, this will piss me off. If the Mets are not spending and not profiting, despite playing in NY and now coming off a World Series, this will piss me off. From 2000 to 2011, the Mets had no worse than a top 6 payroll. This is what you would expect from a team playing in the largest market in the US. From 2012 on, their payroll has dropped and now they are in the lower third. I would like to see this trend reverse, and the Mets to be funded like the big market team they are. If the owners cannot find a way to fund this team like a big market team, they should criticized for it.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I get the impression the Mets were exasperated with Montero, however. They felt like he was either dogging it or not forthcoming as to his health, and it was costly inasmuch as we couldn't execute the 6-man the way they wrote it up and wound up giving too many starts to an ineffective Gee. I got that feeling too. They were definitely pissed at Gee too.

But don't you have to be worried about payroll when offering a three year, forty million dollar deal to someone who might have a cheap successor waiting in the wings?

If you do that, that could free up Herrera for a trade to offset the loss of Cespedes. I'm open to ideas. Sounds like your team could use a bump in payroll to make this happen.

Edgy, What sort of deal locks him up? Even with a hometown discount?

Ceetar wrote: Mets drew 400k more fans last year, and presumably locked in a bunch of 2016 deposits and expect a bump next year. Say 800k. so 800x whatever the average ticket price works out to be. $30? Should expect a modest 20million bump in expected revenue and therefore expenditure, give or take a little based on leaving room for mid-season acquisitions or whatever. You could dig a little more into the exact numbers there, but it hardly seems like something with a lot of meat to write about. I want you to understand that I am a fan of the New York Mets. And I am writing on a message board that I wish our team had the financial capability of the Kansas City Royals.

Exactly. (directed at BG) I am certainly not advocating scenario 3 (except maybe that whenever we throw in cash to make a trade happen, Sandy should go make it rain in that front office). And I think and hope that Conforto will be a star. But imagine having another $20 million or so to add pieces like Heyward, or Desmond, or middle relief. It could transform this team from a contender, to a dominant team. And you don't have to spend like the Dodgers. You just have to spend like the Royals.

A look back at the 2015 numbers: http://deadspin.com/2015-payrolls-and-salaries-for-every-mlb-team-1695040045 To summarize, the Mets were 21st out of 30 teams with a payroll of $101 million. Atrocious for a big market team. If the Mets wanted to get to #15, they would have to bump their payroll to about $115 million. Which, you would have to think would give you plenty of money to sign, say, Jason Heyward. If the Mets one day realized they play in NY, and allowed themselves a top 5 payroll, they would have to add at least $70 million to their books. With an additional $70 million, the Mets could sign Justin Upon for $25M/year to play right. Then sign Cespedes for $25M/year to play left. And then finish off by signing Jason Heyward at $15M/year to play center. Then they could package Conforto, Granderson, Duda, Lagares, Wheeler, Flores and Amed Rosario for Paul Goldschmidt. And they could give Arizona an extra $5 million cash just because they have it lying around. And if he wanted to, Sandy could personally deliver that $5 million by making it rain all throughout the Arizona front office. I get that this is not likely to happen. But imagine if the Mets actually spent like a big market team, and put some pieces around this once-in-a-lifetime pitching staff. Fred said he would spend money if attendance increased. Well we did our part. Now it's time to spend money. Don't let this fucker off the hook. Write about it. Blog about it. Write to your congressman. Let's put pressure on these fuckers this winter.

(and if not, we'll win it the year after that.)

I'm much better today. Probably the first time since Saturday night I have not felt the need to curse every time my mind wanders. The funny thing is, if the Mets had failed to make the playoffs, or been bounced early, I think I would be really looking forward to 2016 as the year we make our big move. But because they went to the World Series, I've been moping around thinking they blew their big chance, and they may never get back there again. This is foolish. And I'm starting to realize that now. Everyone talked about how exceptional it is that KC lost one year and won it the next. And how the Mets should not expect that to happen for them. And although this exact scenario is strange, multiple World Series appearances are not. In fact, it's pretty common. In the past 10 years, there have been only 11 participants. And that's because seven of those teams (Giants, Cardinals, Red Sox, Royals, Rangers, Phillies, Tigers) have appeared at least twice (Giants and Cardinals have appeared 3x each). Only four teams (Rockies, Rays, Yankees and Mets) are one-time participants. The Rockies and Rays were flukish and were dismantled afterwards. The Yankees suck. And the Mets are just starting their run. So what this tells us, is that good teams tend to make the World Series, and chances are, they tend to get there more than once. And I would argue that none of those other 10 teams had the rotation the Mets have just built. Of the last ten WS Champions, 3 of them (4 if you count the Cardinals twice) have also lost a World Series during this run. Sure. It's tough when you think about 1986 and 2006. But there are key differences. In the 80's, only 2 teams made the playoffs. I read someplace that if there were four divisions and Wild Cards, the Mets would have made the playoffs every year from '85 to '90. That's 6 Octobers. You'd think they would find a way to get back there at least once (imagine '85 Gooden in the playoffs? Wow). And I tend to think the 2006 team had no pitching at all. Think about that team, not one starter would make the post-season roster in 2015. Glavine maybe beats out Niese for 5th starter during the year, but it's close. So fuck the wound-licking. Fuck the talk of 16 years until our next one. Let's go on our run. We're going to win it all next year.

The Duda pic is my favorite. Also went with Harvey 2.0.

Throw Colby Rasmus and Jason Heyward in as well. Heyward is intriguing. Hasn't put up the power most expected of him, but he's still only 26 and has tons of upside. If the Wilpons had money, I'd seriously give him some thought. Terrific defender too. Could no doubt play center.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: We don't Cespedes back, we just need a way to replace his contributions. Not to say we couldn't still use him but consider: He's not a good centerfielder, we have 3 outfielders already under contract, Nimmo on the way, and lots of possibilities in the trade/FA market, and he basically cost us the World Series. We should be thankful the best 6 weeks of his career were with us and move on. Agreed. But I just don't see how they are going to replace his production with the options that they have. Maybe I'm not seeing all the angles, but the only guy I can see replacing Cespedes is Yoenis Cespedes. (And that Upton/Granderson option I discussed earlier but that seems really far-fetched).

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy MD wrote: The Mets led in every game. The Mets should lobby for shorter games. I was thinking the same thing. If they played seven inning games, the Mets'd be going for the crown tonight. If they played seven inning games and someone catches the "inside the parker", the Mets are your 2015 World Champs. More than any other play that IPHR will knaw at me the whole offseason. Shit defense showed up in the first inning and haunted us the rest of the series. Shit defense aided by bad decisions from TC. Lagares should have played CF, with Conforto as DH.

I don't know. I'm still so mad. I guess it's ok. I'm starting to realize being distracted at work didn't have anything to do with the World Series.

Edgy MD wrote: Rasmus disturbs me. He always looks like some guy who stole my bike when I was 11. [fimg=400]http://www.joesportsfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/colby-rasmus-2013.jpg[/fimg] Wow. Is that what he looks like? He's 47 years old!

And for the record, I have the utmost faith in Sandy Alderson. I think he's earned it. No matter what happened against KC, he fucking rocked it this July, and showed us all what he can do. The Wilpons are the issue here. If they fund this team, we will be one of the favorites for the post-season for years to come. If they handcuff Sandy again, we're fucked.

Edgy MD wrote: I'm sorry my observation invokes desperate prayer. I'm responding to a statement from Transmonk, and my response is rooted in reason. I think the idea that answers should only come from the outside and dramatic offseason transacting and not be the result of years of building doesn't hold up. And I think harvesting from the fruits of those years of building isn't "doing dick." OE: Nonetheless, I expect there will be transacting and nothing I wrote should imply advocacy for or a prediction to the contrary. The Mets just played 2 games with their head up their ass. It doesn't take much to invoke desperate prayer from me these days. I agree we can hope to get some improvement over the course of the year from Conforto, d'Arnaud, and hopefully a healthy Wright. And that is fine. But if it's March, and Sandy is using this logic as a justification for why he did not replace the production lost from Murphy and Cespedes I'll fucking lose it. Everyone is entitled to harvest the fruits of your player development. That's good. But it's not going to be enough. We need to replace the thunder that we are likely to lose. Last winter the Mets were a cleanup hitter away from putting a great team on the field. They failed. They signed Michael Cuddyer and hoped to get away with it. That move, not surprisingly, was not enough. It wasn't until they got a real cleanup hitter that they became NL Champions. Now he's likely gone. He needs to be replaced.

I'll hold off on commenting until my anger dissipates a bit. I know that Terry did a great job overall, but the sting of his bonehead moves in the post-season, and most specifically the last 3 games is still too fresh in my mind. But as mentioned, no surprise at all. I mean, the guy won the pennant. We're lucky he didn't get 3 years.

Gotcha. I don't think anything needs to be redone. Like I said, lots of good pieces in place. In fact, if the Mets did absolutely nothing this offseason to help the bullpen other than sign a lefty specialist, they might still be ok. But it sure would be nice to get stronger.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Everyone's all of a sudden trying to redo the Mets bullpen. Really? In this thread? I'd go as far as to say no one is trying to redo the Mets bullpen here.

Edgy MD wrote: TransMonk wrote: I, too, worry about power. It will be hard to rely on Wright for more than 15-ish HRs (essentially replacing what will be lost when Murphy leaves). Duda's consistency is also a big question mark for me. It seems like power is going to have to potentially come from a new center fielder or middle infielder...which is not where one traditionally finds a lot of pop. A full year from d'Arnaud would help...but I've never seen one of those before. It's very early in the off-season, but I'm on the Colby Rasmus bandwagon. Well, it's good to see that we don't have to buy into the rebuild-like-KC-with-high-contact-high-batting-average line. Obviously, we can't "rely" on anybody for anything, but Wright is a good bet to provide more than he (and Campbell) did last year. And we can reasonably expect more power to come organically from catcher and left field. I hope to god that we do not hear these types of statements from Sandy at the end of the off-season trying to justify another winter of futility. They just went to the World Series. The goal should be to build a championship caliber team. If they lose Cespedes and Murphy and do dick again this offseason, the offense will be terrible. Just like it was before the trade deadline. And the Mets will revert to mediocrity. The goal for this winter is exactly the same as it was last winter. Find a middle of the order bat (or two). They failed miserably at that last winter. They were lucky to be able to correct that mistake at the trade deadline this year in time to make the playoffs. They may not be so lucky next year. Don't take chances. Get it done this winter.

Which is the difficulty of this off-season. We need a middle of the order guy. But our corner OF and corner IF positions are all accounted for.

It would be nice to build a KC like bullpen to supplement our rotation. Some useful pieces from last year come back. Familia. Reed. Robles. I guess Goedel is around as well, but last I heard, he may need TJ surgery. Mejia comes back after 80 games as well, but I'm not sure what the Mets plan to do with him. Edgin comes back. So that will help. I think we still have Vic Black somewhere. I would like to see the Mets re-sign Blevins and Parnell if it can be done cheaply. I think both have the potential to bounce back. I was thinking maybe Wheeler goes to the pen for the stretch run? Would be nice to have his 96 MPH in the 7th inning. Also, I think it's time to tell Rafael Montero that his role for the 2016 team is in the bullpen. Bartolo Colon for long reliever? Middle relief is such a crap shoot. It seems like the formula is: 1. Develop it yourself 2. Gamble on guys who used to be good to bounce back 3. Find a middle of the road starter who throws hard and put him in the pen and hope he turns into Wade Davis/Eric Gagne