Centerfield

Centerfield wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I don't think it's quite age that triggers a risk aversion with Cespedes, so much as the his skill set being so volatile and age-dependent, if that distinction makes sense. It made more sense when LWFS dumped on me for Cespedes-wishing. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I get the Maybe Murph argument; after all, Murph made some (apparently sustainable) significant offensive-approach adjustments last year, and we have a very good idea of the floor of what he'll give us over the life of the next deal... it's just that it'll be a more expensive version of Same Old Murph. If you've got significant doubts about Zobrist's aging curve, I get that, and I get Murph as a devil-you-know alternative. But if you're worried about aging, and bang for buck, holy SHIT is Cespedes the wrong basket in which to store your $100M+ eggs. Deficient on-base skills, highly BABIP-and-athleticism-dependent value... the floor on a large-scale contract with this sort of skill set, well, it's hard to see the bottom. This is the kind of guy that falls off a fucking cliff once age hits, and the kind of guy who will likely provide below-AAV value in off- or normal years, health-and-aging issues aside. I don't think that should be the last word. But it's a strong word. I get that sustainability is a factor. I think first off, it's incredibly difficult to predict. (Everyone thought Rickey had the type of game that would age quickly. Everyone thought Alfonzo's production was sustainable.) The point to remember is that Zobrist, being much older, is just as much of a risk to fall off as Cespedes. And there is no question that Cespedes is likely to far out-produce Zobrist over the next 3-4 years. And that's fine if you are not on the Cespedes bandwagon. There is Heyward. And Upton. And even Denard Fucking Span. When you eliminate every day outfielders, you are leaving yourself with scrubs. Scrubs. You can call them "veterans who can platoon with our existing players" but that is another way of saying scrubs. John Ricco is saying we cannot afford good players.

*avi

This article has the actual quote on the everyday outfielders: "Those everyday guys aren't as attractive to us," Ricco said. http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/cb5445f3e596455eb9c2b018d25ea45c/thanks-memories-mets-likely-out-cespedes Yes John. Those everyday outfielders are not attractive. Let's pass up three outfielders in their prime who have historically all been better than Ben Zobrist, and give Zobrist a multi-year deal for his age 35-38 years. This is a fucking joke. Just because you spend less money doesn't make it any less of a risk. Probability of return on your investment is just as much of a factor as the actual dollars spent.

Edgy MD wrote: Roger's mullet, man. Almost warrants being punched just on it's own. Was the McDowell or Billy Rae Cyrus?

More or less. Article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/07/sports/baseball/new-york-mets-meetings-ben-zobrist-yoenis-cespedes.html We know that they are pursuing Zobrist. If he goes elsewhere? Likely no Murphy. If Zobrist signs elsewhere, the Mets did not seem to have a clear fallback plan. Ricco said they would be interested in re-signing Daniel Murphy then, depending on his contract demands, “the dollars and length, and what else we’re going to do.” But Ricco warned that the market to sign Murphy would be competitive, especially after his playoff performance. The Mets have said that they would be comfortable starting Dilson Herrera, 21, at second base and bringing in a veteran to play now and then to relieve pressure on him. That is actually encouraging. Considering some reports have them giving money to Asdrubal Cabrera. On Cespedes: “I think it’s unlikely right now that he ends up a Met, I think that’s fair to say,” Ricco said. “I think we will end up meeting with his agent. Right now, I still think he’s looking at a deal that would be north of what we would consider.” I guess we've all suspected it. But it's a bit jarring to hear him come flat out and say we can't afford him. But the worst news in the article: The Mets would like to add complementary players in the bullpen and the outfield. Because they want to play Michael Conforto and Juan Lagares regularly, they are not looking for an “everyday” outfielder, Ricco said, but more of a veteran who could platoon with them. Heyward and Upton are out. In fact, all good players are out. We are just looking to add guys not good enough to hold down a full-time job. So basically, our only chance to offset the loss of Cespedes and Murphy is Ben Fucking Zobrist. And for those who are excited about Zobrist, consider this. We are afraid of going 5 or 6 years on Cespedes because of how old he would be toward the end of that deal. If we gave Cespedes that 6 year deal, he would be 35 when that deal expired. That is how old Zobrist is now. And we are about to give him a four year deal.

Couple thoughts: 1. Roger had a cool release. Lots of movement on that ball. 2. Way too much credit is given to McDowell for his half-hearted "punches" while he is being picked up and thrown. 3. I would think all the remaining 86'ers would side with Roger over Gregg. 4. Is that Mark Carreon?!?!?!

Edgy MD wrote: I've got no feelies for Jason Heyward. He's been a good hitter, but not a great one apart from his rookie year. (In fact, Zobrist has outhit him pretty consistently.) He's been a very good to excellent fielder, but experience suggests defense peaks early. It's been five years since that shiny rookie season and he hasn't made an All Star team since. I'd like to have him, but won't miss him. Eight years? That's silly talk. Heyward and Zobrist, to this point, have been nearly identical hitters. OBP of .353 and .355 respectively. SLG is identical at .431. Factor in Heyward's speed and elite defense, and the two are not really comparable. Plus, at 26, Heyward is just about to enter his prime. Zobrist's best days are behind him. On Edit: (I meant comparable on speed and defense)

Ceetar wrote: Kelly Johnson kinda sucks though. Herrara is a complete wild card (And Flores might not be a good SS) and if you're not trusting Cuddyer in the OF mix, he's not a candidate for long-stretch David Wright replacement either, which might be something they should factor in. It's strange. Kelly Johnson, 33, is going to sign a one-year bargain deal someplace. Zobrist, 35, will have a four year deal around $15 per. Johnson and Zobrist are both utility types who hit for middling power. Johnson .755 career OPS. Zobrist .786. It's crazy how differently they are viewed.

This is really cool. But now I see it and think lil' Lunchpail is riding around on our cleanup hitter.

Gwreck wrote: I agree, they should sign both Heyward and Zobrist

I hear what you are saying about Cespedes. I still think he would be worth it. But I also think Heyward works the best. Heyward allows you to platoon Granderson and Lagares. Curtis had a great year last year, but is a strong candidate for falloff. You can off-set that by platooning them. Heyward plays every day, either RF or CF depending on who else is playing. If you sign Kelly Johnson, you get your flexibility. Also, you move Cuddyer to backup 1B/3B. Herrera is your starting second baseman. I think Heyward will be better than Zobrist. I think Herrera will be better than Lagares. And I think Cuddyer/Johnson provide your flexibility.

Frayed Knot wrote: Davidoff makes the 'Go For It!' case. Winter Meetings start today in Nashville, TN -- conveniently near Zobrist's hometown -- and he could very well make a decision by the time things break up on Thursday. Is also meeting with the Giants & Nats amongst others. The reason Ben Zobrist is a perfect fit for the Mets is because he's a big enough name, people saw him perform well in the World Series, and the Mets can land him without having to make a big financial commitment. In other words, he is just good enough to pass off as a justification of their failure to get an impact bat. In fact, Zobrist is a nice player, and we are getting him during his decline years. But he has just enough fame to save face for the Wilpons.

I want to be the first team to get the warning track sponsored. I'm thinking Viagra is a natural fit.

Agreed. I think I'd rather go Bartolo Colon than Jeff Samardzja

Really? How so? Don't really know him well but those numbers look hardly like he is worth it.

Things are finally moving now. Hopefully the Cubs are done by signing Lackey.

I guess I'm torn on this move. I think the Mets biggest need is an impact bat, and that really can only be found in the OF. But as long as they get that, I'm ok if they get Zobrist. So I'm good with Zobrist if this does not prevent the Mets from going out and getting Heyward/Upton. But if it's either Zobrist or Heyward/Upton, then no to Zobrist. Let's try Herrerra. The outfield bat is more important. I'll be pissed if they get Zobrist then try to play it off as if they've drastically improved the offense. But if no Zobrist means we are looking at Asdrubal Cabrera and Gerardo Parra, then I'm hoping they get Zobrist. I don't know if that makes sense. It makes sense in my mind.

Wow. Fuck. Get better Sandy.

seawolf17 wrote: Because like way too many voters, they have to make it about themselves, and not about the candidates. Eff that guy. Yup. In other words, DOUCHEBAG ALERT! DOUCHEBAG ALERT!

I've managed to stay strong. Only a few more weeks to go. I am hoping I can be completely in the dark about plot etc. when I watch the movie. Just bought tickets for that Sunday.

What I know about Albuquerque: It's where Walter White lived. It's where Bugs Bunny always makes a wrong turn. I feel like Bugs has made a comeback of sorts in 2015.

Henderson Alvarez was non-tendered by the Marlins. Strange move. Alvarez is pretty terrific when healthy.

rotoworlddotcom's comment on Olney's news: The Mets have reportedly considered multiple outfielders on the free agent market, including Denard Span and Gerardo Parra. Fowler would likely command a bigger role and more money than either of those two options, so perhaps the Mets are weighing a possible trade involving Juan Lagares. Fowler batted .250/.346/.411 with 17 home runs and 20 stolen bases this past season as a member of the Cubs. It's worth noting that he declined a qualifying offer to test the open market, so he's attached to draft pick compensation. Dec 2 - 3:04 PM There's an Onion article to be written here. Mets have been involved in discussions with every player available this winter except the three or four that can actually make them better.

Everybody that is, except Jack Leathersich. Chipotle Rocket non-tendered by the Cubs.