smg58

="bmfc1":dr0zyldc]I'm just asking, would you have done DeRosa for Parnell? Parnell is the Mets equivalent of Perez.[/quote:dr0zyldc] Perez is not only more established in the big leagues, but he's also younger. I'd have traded Parnell, but if I were Cleveland I wouldn't have taken Parnell over Perez. PS Keep in mind that the Indians sent the Cubs three borderline at best prospects who weren't in their top 20 to get DeRosa in the first place. DeRosa might not have helped them win anything, but at least they got a decent return. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 28 2009 06:32 PM ="Elster88":36415uu2]="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":36415uu2]I'm not sure what you guys mean. We're 1.5 games back in the division, and therefore have no pressing needs. (PSST! I'm making a sarcastic face right now!)[/quote:36415uu2] Be careful with that logic. That's how the Kazmir trade happened. I think it's better to look at how good the team is, moreso than how many games they are back, when considering adding pieces like DeRosa. Especially in June.[/quote:36415uu2] If by "that," you mean "using that line of reasoning, in drastically different circumstances, at a different time of the year, and involving two entirely different sorts of prospects/returns," then yes, I agree with you entirely. The only way that this isn't the sort of trade you make (as long as it's Parnell-- I'll trade a "potential closer" for almost any other player of equivalent or better talent at any other need position 10 times out of 10) is if you believe that Beltran's being out makes this more or less a lost year, or you're unrealistically hopeful-- based on their established likely levels of production-- about how much longer guys like Cora, Santos, et. al. can continue to dance on the head of a pin. I'm not saying it was wrong not to-- apparently-- aggressive pursue this, I'm just saying that we can be pretty sure which fork in that road Omar, etc. have driven down. Elster88 Jun 28 2009 06:34 PM You sure can be a dick. Your original post made it seem like you were saying Omar should make the trade because the Mets were close to first place. All I said was that there are other factors that should go into that decision. And I'm right. And it looks like you agree with me based on your second post, though you may not realize it. Kong76 Jun 28 2009 07:55 PM Steve Phillips mentioned an inning or two ago that DeRosa might have been a good fit for the Mets. No, he didn't actually say good fit. Just found it funny for one of the most hated GM's of the Mets to agree with some Omar questioners even if only for giggles. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 28 2009 08:30 PM To clarify: in my opinion, the reason that a trade hasn't been more aggressively pursued is that there hasn't been enough pressure-- public or otherwise on the team to make a move. Occasional heroics from unlikely sources aside, this is far more owing to Philly's terrible play than any proficiency on the Mets' part. The proximity to first has clouded the team's judgement of exactly how much needs change/improvement. (I thought that was clear from the parenthetical. Seemingly, it wasn't.) This team as currently comprised is more than a little deficient on offense, and cannot contend for much longer without outside reinforcement; the nature of and circumstances surrounding the injuries to Beltran, Delgado and Reyes point to their full recovery being much more conjecture than certainty. One might draw the conclusion from the sort of moves that have been made of late (shuffling the bullpen; shuttling Martinez and Murphy and A. Reyes back and forth between bench and AAA and the starting lineup) that team management is trying to split the difference between contending and building for the (near-term) future, while avoiding any actual building for said future or actual contending; one might also argue that such a half-measure approach generally leads to time wasted. And as much of a "dick" as I can be, I'm pretty sure I'm the one who didn't go ad hominem, Els. Elster88 Jun 28 2009 08:34 PM Your first sentence in reply to me was very condescending. I think you meant to be a dick/condescending when you posted it. That's why I said you were being a dick. I'm not sure where I "went ad hominen". My original post and my second one after you responded pretty nicely captured what you had said up to that point. You have since clarified your position and, as I pointed out, you pretty much agreed with me that there are reasons other than the Mets are 1.5 games out to make or not make such a trade. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 09:49 AM ="Elster88":3b7ouou0]Your first sentence in reply to me was very condescending. I think you meant to be a dick/condescending when you posted it. That's why I said you were being a dick. [/quote:3b7ouou0] Eh. You have a point-- I checked my audio recordings from yesterday (yeah, I'm going through a Nixon phase) and I did make an inordinate number of snooty "haw-HAW" noises around this time. Apologies. It felt like you were Duquette-ing me, there, and I got a little hot. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 29 2009 10:02 AM Gotta love the Snooze. Today they run an OMAR MUST MAKE A TRADE NOW!!! article alongside the obligatory METS FARM SYSTEM SUCKS ASS ALOT!!! article. metirish Jun 29 2009 10:09 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Gotta love the Snooze. Today they run an OMAR MUST MAKE A TRADE NOW!!! article alongside the obligatory METS FARM SYSTEM SUCKS ASS ALOT!!! article. Wally at Newsday has three such article , it's like this weekend was nirvana for the guy. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:08 AM ]News: The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports that the Pirates have traded OF Eric Hinske to the Yankees for minor leaguers C Eric Fryer and RP Casey Erickson. bmfc1 Jun 30 2009 10:19 AM I don't know anything about the MFY prospects, but the early word is that they aren't top prospects. I don't think that I'm going out on a limb in saying that Eric Hinske would be a better bat off the bench than what the Mets have now. If Omar Minaya was alive today, he would have made this deal. metirish Jun 30 2009 10:33 AM With this Mets team he might be an everyday player , not good enough IMO for that, nice bench player though. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 10:34 AM Does this mean they release Matsui? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 10:37 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":32xnc5xj]Does this mean they release Matsui?[/quote:32xnc5xj] Just curious, or are you thinking Sheff needs a platoon stumbling partner? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 10:39 AM 98% the former. smg58 Jun 30 2009 10:54 AM The Mets are already well-stocked on guys who can draw walks but aren't slugging .400. Hinske's not somebody to get worked up over. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:05 AM i'm just reporting the trade in the trades thread, i didnt particularly want hinske though i wouldnt complain about him either LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:10 AM ="Nymr83"]i'm just reporting the trade in the trades thread, i didnt particularly want hinske though i wouldnt complain about him either I'm with Namor. My pants aren't getting any tighter over this, but... well... Let's put it this way: Argenis or Hinske-- who would you rather have unsuccessfully sacrifice-bunting in a key 1-out/1-on situation? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM I'd rather have Jerry fitted with an electric collar that would zap him every time he bunts John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Nymr83":2w355zfq]I'd rather have Jerry fitted with an electric collar that would zap him every time he bunts[/quote:2w355zfq] I am intrigued by this idea and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. metirish Jun 30 2009 11:28 AM I like that idea, I like to have him zapped when he gets a gut feeling or hunch about things. MFS62 Jun 30 2009 01:14 PM If the team performance continues to decline, and Omar stands pat, I could foresee the tone of this thread shifting from trades to tirades. Later OlerudOwned Jun 30 2009 01:29 PM Pirates strike again, with an X-Met involved. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/pirates-nats-close-to-swapping-morgan-milledge.html Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett for Joel Hanrahan and one Blastings Thrilledge. bmfc1 Jun 30 2009 01:36 PM Why would Pittsburgh take Milledge while he's injured or recovering from an injury? They should have insisted that the Nationals call him up to see his condition. Chico Harlan has the latest: UPDATE, 3:30 p.m.] -- Done deal. Absolutely finalized. Look for a more detailed news story here in a few minutes. GM Mike Rizzo will address the media about the deal at 4:10 p.m. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 01:37 PM Chico added: Fuck. And just as I was finishing my golf game. metirish Jun 30 2009 01:40 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 30 2009 01:41 PM Caught napping again Omar? Yes I'm OlerudOwned Jun 30 2009 01:41 PM ="bmfc1":2ayjmypm]Why would Pittsburgh take Milledge while he's injured or recovering from an injury? They should have insisted that the Nationals call him up to see his condition. Chico Harlan has the latest: UPDATE, 3:30 p.m.] -- Done deal. Absolutely finalized. Look for a more detailed news story here in a few minutes. GM Mike Rizzo will address the media about the deal at 4:10 p.m.[/quote:2ayjmypm] I'd assume they've had scouts following him in AAA leading up to the deal. It's another low-key but solid looking move by Pittsburgh, Morgan is 29 years old already. They're certainly not a contender right now, but give Neal Huntington credit for finally being the guy with the balls to dismantle and reassemble that franchise top-to-bottom. They finally have a gameplan and some direction. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 01:44 PM i dont see why the nationals made this deal OlerudOwned Jun 30 2009 01:48 PM ="Nymr83":k9nl4kys]i dont see why the nationals made this deal[/quote:k9nl4kys] Because they are what the Pirates were before Huntingon/Coonelly. This trade is almost like a passing of the Stupid Torch. Which I would imagine is carried upside-down. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 01:49 PM ="OlerudOwned":3pems25k]Pirates strike again, with an X-Met involved. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/pirates-nats-close-to-swapping-morgan-milledge.html Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett for Joel Hanrahan and one Blastings Thrilledge.[/quote:3pems25k] Pirates continuing to stock up on high-ceiling yet by-no-means guaranteed players: Milledge, that guy from Atlanta whose names escapes, Tabata from the Yanx system, the younger LaRoche, plus various spare parts. If the dice come up '7' on any of all of those guys they'll have a nice nucleus to build around. If not ... well, then they'll continue to be the Pirates. In the meantime, Morgan was becoming redundant thanx to McCutcheon while Burnett was one of their myriad of promising pitching prospects from a few years back where the dice came up 'snake-eyes' on just about all of them. bmfc1 Jun 30 2009 02:01 PM Joel Sherman tweets: nyp_joelshermanI think #Pirates win that trade. I like athletic Nyjer Morgan for #Nats. But Hanrahan is real good. I bet he is another arm hurt by WBC. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:10 PM Pirates could well "win" the pitching side of that deal. I still wouldn't be too quick on giving up on Milledge though. He's 5 years younger than Morgan and has a lot more power potential. What he needs to do is stay healthy. Plus at least, with McCutcheon there, Pitt won't be trying to shoe-horn him into the leadoff spot they way Washington did. Fman99 Jul 01 2009 10:26 AM Elijah Dukes sent down by the Nats to their local AAA affiliate here in Syracuse, to make room for Morgan to play. In other news, my home insurance premiums just doubled. metirish Jul 01 2009 10:56 AM Pirates actually paying some of Hinske's salary Eric Hinske[/url:o6fav92i] smg58 Jul 02 2009 09:00 AM I guess the Nyjer Morgan trade means that Willie Harris, with his .791 OPS and superlative outfield defense, has been relegated to the bench. I wonder how much he would cost... sharpie Jul 02 2009 09:22 AM Sending Dukes down is how the Nats free up a spot for Morgan. Harris seems to still be in their plans. bmfc1 Jul 02 2009 09:22 AM ="smg58":3ubbr6qu]I guess the Nyjer Morgan trade means that Willie Harris, with his .791 OPS and superlative outfield defense, has been relegated to the bench. I wonder how much he would cost...[/quote:3ubbr6qu] That's a good thought. We know he has a good glove and he would be a decent bat off the bench. metsguyinmichigan Jul 02 2009 09:23 AM SAN DIEGO (AP) � The Houston Astros have claimed infielder German Duran off waivers from the Texas Rangers. Duran, who had an appendectomy on June 11 and was placed on the disabled list, was claimed by the Astros on Wednesday. He is scheduled to be examined in Houston on Thursday by team physician Jim Muntz. Once he is cleared for baseball activities, the Astros said he will be sent to their minor-league facility at Kissimmee, Fla., to begin working out. --- Sonofabitch! Where was Omar when this was going down! Asleep at the wheel again! German Duran was there for the taking?????? (Sarcasm meter turned on.) bmfc1 Jul 02 2009 09:28 AM Is he from the German Duran Duran tribute band? Benjamin Grimm Jul 02 2009 09:39 AM ="bmfc1"]Is he from the German Duran Duran tribute band? Dunkle Nacht in der Stadt ist ein Draht Dampf in der U-Bahn der Erde ist in Flammen Sie tun das nicht tun, tun Sie dododo Dodo Dodo Frau Sie m�chten, dass ich mir ein Zeichen Und fangen meine Atmung noch n�her hinter Sie tun das nicht tun, tun Sie dododo Dodo Dodo In Ber�hrung mit dem Boden Ich bin auf der Suche nach Ihnen Geruch, wie ich Sound Ich bin verloren in der Menge. Und ich bin hungrig wie der Wolf. Straddle die Zeile in Zwietracht und Reim Ich bin auf der Suche nach Ihnen. Mund lebt mit S�ften, wie Wein Und ich bin hungrig wie der Wolf Gestielt in den Wald zu schlie�en, um sich zu verstecken Ich werde auf euch von der Seite Mondschein Sie tun das nicht tun, tun Sie dododo Dodo Dodo Hohe Blut Trommeln auf der Haut ist es so eng, Sie f�hlen sich meine W�rme Ich bin nur ein Moment hinter Sie tun das nicht tun, tun Sie dododo Dodo Dodo In Ber�hrung mit dem Boden Ich bin auf der Suche nach Ihnen Duft und Klang. Ich habe mich verirrt, und ich bin gefunden Und ich bin hungrig wie der Wolf. Strut auf einer Linie ist es Zwietracht und rh yme Ich heulen, und ich weinen Ich bin, nachdem Sie Mund lebt alle laufenden innerhalb Und ich bin hungrig wie der Wolf. Hungrig wie der Wolf Hungrig wie der Wolf Hungrig wie der Wolf Brennen der Boden kann ich aus der Menge Ich bin auf der Suche nach Ihnen Ich rieche, wie ich Sound. Ich habe mich verirrt, und ich bin gefunden Und ich bin hungrig wie der Wolf Strut auf einer Linie ist es Zwietracht und Reim Ich bin auf der Suche nach Ihnen Mund lebt mit S�ften, wie Wein Und ich bin hungrig wie der Wolf bmfc1 Jul 02 2009 09:42 AM BG--excellent! John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 02 2009 09:44 AM LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 02 2009 09:47 AM That's some turnaround, BeeG. Were you a short-order cook in a previous life? Benjamin Grimm Jul 02 2009 09:50 AM I keep German Duran Duran lyrics in my computer's clipboard at all times, just in case... Frayed Knot Jul 02 2009 10:18 AM Houston GM Ed Wade: "I've been sent by my team to find German Duran" themetfairy Jul 02 2009 10:26 AM Great clip Lunchie - Animaniacs rule! MFS62 Jul 02 2009 11:06 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":1os9xmq9]I keep German Duran Duran lyrics in my computer's clipboard at all times, just in case...[/quote:1os9xmq9] We already knew you were a special kind of person. That confirms it. Good job. Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2009 12:45 PM Claim dat bitch! (3.55 ERA/125 ERA+/24 hits in 25.1 IP) http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/07/indians_designate_herges_for_a.html Edgy DC Jul 04 2009 01:03 PM Word. seawolf17 Jul 07 2009 11:37 AM Ryan Freel is a Royal. http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4309328 (I would love Freel as a Met.) DocTee Jul 07 2009 12:40 PM Ryan Freel is a Royal. http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4309328 (I would love Freel as a Met.) I'd have preferred: [url:23k612go]http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-4-15/A-s-swipe-Hairston-from-Padres.html[/url:23k612go] Vic Sage Jul 07 2009 03:40 PM what would it take to get Halladay? BJays are said to be shopping him. smg58 Jul 07 2009 04:29 PM At least one of Wil Flores and Brad Holt would have to be in it. Plus Parnell, their choice of Murphy or Evans, perhaps a major league PTBNL that they get after the season (like maybe John Maine). I see no harm in asking. Nymr83 Jul 07 2009 04:44 PM well he's signed through NEXT year, at which point they'd get 2 high draft choices if he walks away. i suspect they could get the most for him if they wait for the offseason when teams have budget room for next year and dont mind giving away major leaguers as much as they would in-season. a realistic (offseason) offer from the Mets might be: Maine, Holt, Flores/Martinez, and a couple of guys who arent on any prospect lists for Halladay and maybe a medium size salary they don't want anymore (kevin millar or david delluci probably makes a million bucks that they'd love to make the mets eat) that might seem like alot but he's an ace pitcher and you have to think there are teams with much better prospects to offer like the Dodgers (the Red Sox would be almost an ideal fit but i dont know if they'll trade him in the division) Gwreck Jul 07 2009 04:47 PM Halladay has a no-trade clause and it would take Santana money to get him. Plus a comparable, if not greater, package of prospects. Nymr83 Jul 07 2009 04:56 PM ="Gwreck":1asa0nfn]Halladay has a no-trade clause and it would take Santana money to get him. Plus a comparable, if not greater, package of prospects.[/quote:1asa0nfn] yeah, i dont think the Mets have the prospects to get him without including John Maine, an already decent and fairly young MLB pitcher, alongg with the best of their prospects. That might actually be a deal you dont love a few years from now. Halladay is 32 as compared to Santana's 29 when the Mets got him. btw, i find it outrageous that philliesnation.com has sponsored Santana's baseballrefence page. we need to either a) get it back or sponsor a philly page and leave a message like "lets go mets" Nymr83 Jul 08 2009 03:31 PM not a trade, but toronto released bj ryan today, still owing him 10 million for next year. metirish Jul 08 2009 03:51 PM That always struck me as a dumb deal to begin with, but there was a lot of bad big money deals for closers around that time. Frayed Knot Jul 08 2009 04:52 PM 5-year deals for relievers usually are dumb - especially for big money (of course if it were small money he wouldn't be getting a 5-year deal in the first place). That he needed major surgery a short time into the deal obviously didn't help things. A Boy Named Seo Jul 08 2009 04:53 PM I'm pretty sure I wanted BJ Ryan back when. Frayed Knot Jul 08 2009 05:07 PM Maybe - although you didn't chime in during this thread one way or the other. Nymr83 gets the prescient award on this topic: "that is a shitload of years and money. toronto will come to regret that contract in a few years i think." seawolf17 Jul 08 2009 09:09 PM You know why I hat baseball? Seven hours ago, I was ready to break up this team and trade everyone not named Wright, Reyes, or Santana. One win later, and I'm ready to deal the entire farm system for Roy Halladay and make a run at a title. (sigh) Nymr83 Jul 08 2009 09:20 PM i'd be willing to deal for halladay anyway because he'd be a huge piece for next year, but unless the mets can really turn things around i wouldnt want to deal prospects for a 2009 rental anymore, the time for that has passed (for now) metirish Jul 09 2009 08:17 AM ="Frayed Knot"]Maybe - although you didn't chime in during this thread one way or the other. Nymr83 gets the prescient award on this topic: "that is a shitload of years and money. toronto will come to regret that contract in a few years i think." As always it's interesting to look back....props to Nymr for Ryan and props to Edgy for his Jason Bay comment... I had forgotten about Loiaza and that terrible deal... MFS62 Jul 09 2009 08:32 AM I'm still not sure about how much Halliday could help the current situation. He's played his entire ML career in the American League, so we don't know how well he can hit. Later Nymr83 Jul 09 2009 09:57 AM ="MFS62":3l37xz2z]I'm still not sure about how much Halliday could help the current situation. He's played his entire ML career in the American League, so we don't know how well he can hit. Later[/quote:3l37xz2z] he'd probably turn into another Santana, 7 innings 2 runs, and a 2-1 loss. but he'd be here for next year when Reyes, Wright, and Beltran are (hopefully) together and healthy along with Delgado or some other bat at firstbase or in the outfield. and pitchers coming over from the AL to the NL tend to do well LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 09 2009 10:08 AM ="Nymr83":2tue5avz]="MFS62":2tue5avz]I'm still not sure about how much Halliday could help the current situation. He's played his entire ML career in the American League, so we don't know how well he can hit. Later[/quote:2tue5avz] he'd probably turn into another Santana, 7 innings 2 runs, and a 2-1 loss. but he'd be here for next year when Reyes, Wright, and Beltran are (hopefully) together and healthy along with Delgado or some other bat at firstbase or in the outfield. and pitchers coming over from the AL to the NL tend to do well[/quote:2tue5avz] I'm not going to say that it guarantees anything, obviously, but Santana and Halladay up front compares pretty decently to Johnson-Schilling. (With a better bullpen.) If one of Reyes and Beltran come back at close to full form before month's end, with Delgado on the heels of that, that hypothetical team-- problematic though it may be-- may well get my bet for pennant darkhorse. [And I'm still of the mind that this season is over. But it sits a bit better after last night's win... and the old-time Shea environment that accompanied it.] Edgy DC Jul 09 2009 10:26 AM This season is not over. They may well not flourish this season, but neither have they made their last run. Nymr83 Jul 09 2009 10:27 AM that d-backs team (the 2001 WS winners) seemed very top-heavy in my mind, but i'm not sure when i look at it you had Johnson and Schilling throw a combined 500 innings of 157/188 ERA+ and then a bunch of league average starts (or below) from other guys (Batista had a good ERA+ but i don't know how much of that was in his 18 starts and how much was in the 30 relief appearences) the bullpen was decent with Kim, Swinfell, Prinz, but obviously Brenly didn't trust them as he went to Batista and then Johnson in relief of Schilling in game 7 of the WS (Batista and Johnson had started games 5 and 6 respectively) on the hitting sie Gonzlez was a (steroid-infused?) monster while Grace and Sanders made big contributions, Matt Williams and Jay Bell were serviceable at the back-ends of their careers, and Tony Womack was one of the worst regulars in baseball LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 09 2009 10:54 AM ="Edgy DC":33w6rfz5]This season is not over. They may well not flourish this season, but neither have they made their last run.[/quote:33w6rfz5] To clarify: given the no-end-in-sight DL stints of Beltran and Reyes and the mid-to-late-August return of Delgado, the team's playoff viability is down to puncher's-chance levels. ("More or less over" might have been closer to my actual sentiment.) LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 09 2009 11:20 AM ="Nymr83"]that d-backs team (the 2001 WS winners) seemed very top-heavy in my mind, but i'm not sure when i look at it you had Johnson and Schilling throw a combined 500 innings of 157/188 ERA+ and then a bunch of league average starts (or below) from other guys (Batista had a good ERA+ but i don't know how much of that was in his 18 starts and how much was in the 30 relief appearences) the bullpen was decent with Kim, Swinfell, Prinz, but obviously Brenly didn't trust them as he went to Batista and then Johnson in relief of Schilling in game 7 of the WS (Batista and Johnson had started games 5 and 6 respectively) on the hitting sie Gonzlez was a (steroid-infused?) monster while Grace and Sanders made big contributions, Matt Williams and Jay Bell were serviceable at the back-ends of their careers, and Tony Womack was one of the worst regulars in baseball If memory serves, the bullpen, deserved or no, had a bit of a can't-close-the-tough-ones rep by the WS (and Kim did blow 4 out of 23 save chances); that said, they were pretty effective most of the year. Batista was actually almost exactly as effective that year as a reliever as he was a starter. (The splits are almost eerily alike, actually: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=batismi01&year=2001&t=p#sprel) It was one top-heavy squad (Luis' career year, with the only other above-average performances coming from Sanders and the declining Grace)... but I didn't realize how effective they were (3rd in the NL in runs). LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 09 2009 12:08 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":9nsr1ovv]Claim dat bitch! (3.55 ERA/125 ERA+/24 hits in 25.1 IP) http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/07/indians_designate_herges_for_a.html[/quote:9nsr1ovv] http://www.purplerow.com/2009/7/4/938282/matt-herges-the-reason-we-look-at Matt Herges, still hanging around, available for league-minimum monies. Still damn effective. Frayed Knot Jul 09 2009 12:22 PM ]... and Tony Womack was one of the worst regulars in baseball Except for that game-tying double in the 9th/game 7 which not only was the biggest hit in the inning that made the Yanx lose both the game and the series but also caused them to sign him to an over-priced 2-year contract a few seasons later (cuz he's clutch don't cha know). Helluva guy if you ask me. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 09 2009 12:38 PM Yes, I love Tony Womack. I shall never forget that game -- or signing up for a nyyfans.com account immediately afterward just to witness their fans suffering. The account still works! Let's see now if Stevie Jeets can find out which one is me! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 17 2009 11:15 AM Three words: Price. To. Move. http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/7/17/952227/schneider-on-fire-enjoy-it-while Vic Sage Jul 20 2009 10:27 AM overpriced Met veterans that are playing just well enough that contending teams might ship us a prospect for some of them: - Schnieder - Feliciano - Castillo - Sheffield And possibly even damaged or crappy goods like: - Cora - Redding - Hernandez - Wagner - Putz, if we thru in a bag of balls. I still don't think we need to break up the core (Reyes, Wrights, Beltran, Santana, F-Rod), but i can't take any more of this 09 team. I hat baseball... Centerfield Jul 20 2009 11:28 AM Too bad Delgado's not going to be ready by the deadline. I wonder if he can be a PTBNL or if we can sneak him through waivers while he's in recovery. smg58 Jul 20 2009 02:30 PM Felipe Lopez just got traded to the Brewers. If we were a few games closer I'd be mad. Now I'm not sure I care. Nymr83 Jul 20 2009 03:47 PM ="smg58":2nsartq1]Felipe Lopez just got traded to the Brewers. If we were a few games closer I'd be mad. Now I'm not sure I care.[/quote:2nsartq1] yeah i'm with "i dont care" i dont want to give anything up for Lopez LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 22 2009 10:11 AM ="Vic Sage"]overpriced Met veterans that are playing just well enough that contending teams might ship us a prospect for some of them: - Schnieder - Feliciano - Castillo - Sheffield And possibly even damaged or crappy goods like: - Cora - Redding - Hernandez - Wagner - Putz, if we thru in a bag of balls. I still don't think we need to break up the core (Reyes, Wrights, Beltran, Santana, F-Rod), but i can't take any more of this 09 team. I hat baseball... AA's Sam Page takes a look at some of the prospective bus-riders, including FA compensation, contract status, and possible returns: http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/7/21/956102/its-time-to-sell-pt-1 http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/7/22/957502/its-time-to-sell-pt-2 Skipping outside of ye olde box for a second... if the team is in selling mode this year, plans to contend next year, and has a big-but-limited-budget to fill holes, then... well... might a luxury closer be a bit of a luxury? Might the team be best served-- whether for prospect load or established big-league OF help-- to sell K-Rod? ]The perception of Frankie�s season is much sunnier than reality. His strikeouts and groundballs are down, and his walks are up. These peripherals are much more useful for evaluating his performance, rather than the stellar 1.90 ERA. This stat has more to do with his lucky .245 BABIP than anything, and his FIP of 3.76 and tERA of 3.47 are more precise measures... An above average position player will often be just as valuable as the most elite reliever. In his silly-good 2008 season, Mariano Rivera was a 3.1 WAR pitcher. This equals Placido Polanco�s value in the same year. http://www.metsgeek.com/articles/2009/07/22/the-mets-should-consider-trading-frankie/ metirish Jul 22 2009 10:19 AM I'd keep Rodriguez , sometimes looking so closely at numbers drivers me nuts , especially when I need to google to see what a FIP is. Francisco is as advertised I think , gets the job done but walks the tightrope doing it most nights. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 22 2009 10:24 AM I wouldn't mind seeing what Rodriguez would bring. And also, as I brought up to LWFS last night, let's just pretend the Jays get a buttload of terrific prospects for Halladay. ... How crazy would it be then to offer Santana to the team that just missed out? smg58 Jul 22 2009 10:31 AM What if the team that just missed out was the Phillies? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 22 2009 10:33 AM I'd listen. Wouldn't you? TransMonk Jul 22 2009 10:39 AM I'd listen, but I consider Santana one of the 4 or 5 core members of the team. And I don't think we're that far away from being able to compete during his prime years. I would want MUCH more than this 2nd place team would be offering for Halladay. duan Jul 22 2009 10:42 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]="Vic Sage"]overpriced Met veterans that are playing just well enough that contending teams might ship us a prospect for some of them: - Schnieder - Feliciano - Castillo - Sheffield And possibly even damaged or crappy goods like: - Cora - Redding - Hernandez - Wagner - Putz, if we thru in a bag of balls. I still don't think we need to break up the core (Reyes, Wrights, Beltran, Santana, F-Rod), but i can't take any more of this 09 team. I hat baseball... AA's Sam Page takes a look at some of the prospective bus-riders, including FA compensation, contract status, and possible returns: http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/7/21/956102/its-time-to-sell-pt-1 http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/7/22/957502/its-time-to-sell-pt-2 Skipping outside of ye olde box for a second... if the team is in selling mode this year, plans to contend next year, and has a big-but-limited-budget to fill holes, then... well... might a luxury closer be a bit of a luxury? Might the team be best served-- whether for prospect load or established big-league OF help-- to sell K-Rod? ]The perception of Frankie�s season is much sunnier than reality. His strikeouts and groundballs are down, and his walks are up. These peripherals are much more useful for evaluating his performance, rather than the stellar 1.90 ERA. This stat has more to do with his lucky .245 BABIP than anything, and his FIP of 3.76 and tERA of 3.47 are more precise measures... An above average position player will often be just as valuable as the most elite reliever. In his silly-good 2008 season, Mariano Rivera was a 3.1 WAR pitcher. This equals Placido Polanco�s value in the same year. http://www.metsgeek.com/articles/2009/07/22/the-mets-should-consider-trading-frankie/ am I wrong in thinking that if he's traded he's the right to demand a trade in the offseason or something like that. seawolf17 Jul 22 2009 10:44 AM ="duan":15lo21u5]am I wrong in thinking that if he's traded he's the right to demand a trade in the offseason or something like that.[/quote:15lo21u5] Yes, b/c he's in the first year of a multi-year deal. Why the eff would you replace Santana with Halladay? That's insane. metirish Jul 22 2009 10:46 AM Apparently the Phiilies would not include Drabek in a deal for Halladay . Riccardi saying that a deal is now not likely, much posturing going on one would think. Santana has a full no trade and Rodriguez has a limited one where he can block a trade to ten teams. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 22 2009 10:48 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 22 2009 10:52 AM ="metirish":1eyasbe2]I'd keep Rodriguez , sometimes looking so closely at numbers drivers me nuts , especially when I need to google to see what a FIP is. Francisco is as advertised I think , gets the job done but walks the tightrope doing it most nights.[/quote:1eyasbe2] FIP (Fielding-Independent-Pitching statistic) is an attempt to provide an ERA-type metric (it's multiplied by a league-specific number to be scaled like ERA) that measures stuff (HR, BB, and K to be exact) that's under the direct control of pitchers... the idea being to remove the influence of the defense behind a pitcher on his stats. But, yeah, ultimately, that's peripheral. The main thrust is that even the greatest closer (Mariano last year, e.g.) is in real value less valuable than a pretty good position player virtually anywhere on the diamond... but the perception is that the closer is essential. That gap between perception and reality may be the key to extracting something worth something (Pence, e.g.) for a relatively low cost. Although the little kid in me would hate to see Santana go, I'd be intrigued by the idea of what we could get in return, baseball value for baseball value. That said, JCL, his contract severely reduces the market for him-- Halladay's relatively affordable yet, for a year-plus (plus playoffs?). Even then, Halladay's trade value is lower now than it was with, say, 2 1/2 years of that below-market contract If Toronto really is going to trade him, it's a shame for them they didn't seriously consider doing it last year. bmfc1 Jul 22 2009 10:49 AM Adam LaRoche to the Red Sox. We're awaiting comment on the Pirates from Carlos Beltran. G-Fafif Jul 22 2009 10:52 AM ="bmfc1":zqmjc72m]Adam LaRoche to the Red Sox. We're awaiting comment on the Pirates from Carlos Beltran.[/quote:zqmjc72m] LaRoche should retroactively express embarrassment that the Red Sox lost two of three to the Mets in May. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 22 2009 10:55 AM At last, our long national 2-"A LaRoches"-on-the-same-team nightmare is over. smg58 Jul 22 2009 11:03 AM The catch with K-Rod is that money is a big issue for most teams, and it's not clear that K-Rod was in anybody else's price range when it wouldn't have taken players to get him this past offseason. Now if somebody offered a similarly good but perhaps overpaid major leaguer you might have a match, but deals like that tend to happen in the offseason. There's also the glass-is-half-full way to look at his numbers: he's been very effective for us in a down year by his standards. smg58 Jul 22 2009 11:25 AM The Pirates' booty in the LaRoche deal consists of Argenis Diaz (a younger version of our Argenis, with almost as good a bat) and Hunter Strickland (finesse righty showing excellent control for a 20-year-old at AA, although homers are a concern). MFS62 Jul 22 2009 12:46 PM And the Bucs had shortstop Wilson sitting out today. Is he on the block? Later OlerudOwned Jul 22 2009 01:22 PM ="MFS62":qk01r3dh]And the Bucs had shortstop Wilson sitting out today. Is he on the block? Later[/quote:qk01r3dh] They way they've been running things this season, I'm sure they'll take whatever they can get for him and laugh all the way to the bank. smg58 Jul 22 2009 05:02 PM In hindsight, Jack Wilson would have been an excellent pickup for the Mets about six weeks ago. Especially if taking on his full contract would have meant no significant players getting dealt. In a bit of a surprise, Julio Lugo is a Cardinal; Chris Duncan heads to Pawtucket. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 22 2009 06:04 PM ="smg58":1f7j0xfg]In hindsight, Jack Wilson would have been an excellent pickup for the Mets about six weeks ago. Especially if taking on his full contract would have meant no significant players getting dealt.[/quote:1f7j0xfg] Yup. Cora being an injured hero was about the worst thing that happened to the Mets. Gwreck Jul 22 2009 11:53 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1wrfg6dm]Yup. Cora being an injured hero was about only the eighth or ninth worst thing that happened to the Mets.[/quote:1wrfg6dm] Fixed it for you. I agree that Cora's killing the offense (maybe slightly more than Murphy or Santos/Schneider) but Cora's poor performance also reflects on Jerry and Omar, I think. It's not like his hitting .240 is an aberration. OlerudOwned Jul 23 2009 12:56 AM Jack Wilson wouldn't have helped much. He's not that good. Ashie62 Jul 23 2009 01:54 AM ="OlerudOwned":37869gxh]Jack Wilson wouldn't have helped much. He's not that good.[/quote:37869gxh] You are correct...Unfortunately the Mets are under a do not resuscitate order Nymr83 Jul 23 2009 05:18 AM ="OlerudOwned":1wbzyqkh]Jack Wilson wouldn't have helped much. He's not that good.[/quote:1wbzyqkh] He'd have been an upgrade over Cora a month ago assuming he could have been had for "nothing" if we paid his salary. But he's not really good. Theres no point in getting him now. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2009 05:27 AM ="OlerudOwned"]Jack Wilson wouldn't have helped much. He's not that good. Look, if Cora went and got the surgery he needed Omar would have to have done something and Wilson being a good fielder and presumably available would have been a reasonable solution. In the meantime we'd have enjoyed the benefits of a 700 OPS guy vs. a 500 OPS guy; and a good fielder vs. a shitty fielder. It's all vomit under the bridge by now, but just saying. metirish Jul 23 2009 08:22 AM Chris Duncan is a meat head , or is that his brother?, either way I am surprised that the Sox got him for Lugo , or got anything at all. Edgy DC Jul 23 2009 08:30 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 23 2009 08:40 AM I agree that allowing Cora to cowboy up (and batting him leadoff) has been terribly wishful thinking. I think we all need to realize that the real Cora is not as bad as this. But I think the Mets braintrust needed to realize that wishing that Cora could somehow summon his best game through the injury was too much risk for too little reward. Maybe the strong May for the team triggered a lot of wishful thinking. Nymr83 Jul 23 2009 08:34 AM ]I think we all need to realize that the real Cora is not as bad as this The Cora we've seen from 2005-2008 is almost as bad as this, unless you expect him somehow to become the decent player he was for LA in 03-04 Edgy DC Jul 23 2009 08:43 AM He's a better offensive player and particularly a better defensive player than this. And better used sparingly --- which he had been before he got hurt --- even at his best. Always good to be patronized by you, thanks. Nymr83 Jul 23 2009 08:57 AM that wasnt being patronizing. ]He's a better offensive player and particularly a better defensive player than this from 2005 to 2008 he hit .244/.309/.339 (68 OPS+) this year its .242/.322/.295 (66+) you want to show me that he was particularly better defensively, go ahead, but contrary to your assertion he's the same hitter now that he's been the last 4 years. Edgy DC Jul 23 2009 09:19 AM ]unless you expect him somehow to become the decent player he was for LA in 03-04 Yeah, talking to me like I'm a twit is pretty uneccessarily insulting. I'm referring to way he's performed since he got off the DL (an activation that apparently shouldn't have happened). The numbers you quote are not part of my "assertion" but including the early part of the season when he played well. His numbers that I am "asserting" about are .212 // .274 //. 244 // .518. And the numbers that you are quoting about how he's been recently are weighed down by a season three years ago, while he's been better over the last two. To make a point of that season as speaking to who he is now, while making a crack about how I "somehow expect him somehow to become the decent player he was for LA in 03-04" is doubly insulting. Nymr83 Jul 23 2009 10:19 AM bottom line: he hasn't been even decent since 2004. the injury didn't cause him to suck. props to him for gutting it out anyway (but thumbs down to the mets for letting him.) its too late now anyway. unless the mets have a better option internally it is no longer worth obtaining one for just this year. ]I'm referring to way he's performed since he got off the DL that wasnt made clear, but he wasnt going to be an acceptable long-term replacement for Reyes to begin with, the only defense Omar has there is that he didn't know how long Reyes would be out ]And the numbers that you are quoting about how he's been recently are weighed down by a season three years ago, while he's been better over the last two. To make a point of that season as speaking to who he is now and you get to decide that the last 2 years are the relevant time period rather than the last 4? he's been BAD since leaving LA, that was why i picked four years, that was when he left LA. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 23 2009 10:28 AM ="metirish"]Chris Duncan is a meat head , or is that his brother?, either way I am surprised that the Sox got him for Lugo , or got anything at all. There's a bit of lunk to the galoot. And the Cards need middle-infield depth a bit more than they need yet another backup-for-Pujols/sorta-sluggy* backup-corner OF-type. *In 2006-07, that is. He's slugging .389 this year, and David Wright has as many home runs. Edgy DC Jul 23 2009 10:32 AM This is too ridiculous ]bottom line: he hasn't been even decent since 2004. No, it's not, because you decided to make hay over ]the real Cora is not as bad as this ] the injury didn't cause him to suck. It appears to have made him play worse. ]that wasnt made clear It was clear enough. ]but he wasnt going to be an acceptable long-term replacement for Reyes to begin with, the only defense Omar has there is that he didn't know how long Reyes would be out I think it's clear that I'm with you there. Maybe not. ]and you get to decide that the last 2 years are the relevant time period I didn't "decide" anything. You're the one who has been framing. My only timeframe was the period he has been hurt. Do I really have to spell everything out here? He's better as an uninjured backup shortstop than an injured fulltime one. I think that's a clear position and one I'm willing to defend. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 23 2009 11:22 AM RRRRRRROW! smg58 Jul 23 2009 11:32 AM Wilson's a mediocre hitter but consistently one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball. That alone would have made him an upgrade. But there's really no point now. Cora was signed to be a backup, and if he were playing only as much as the Mets originally expected him to play nobody would be complaining that harshly. Plus, he might have been given more time off to heal properly if the Mets weren't utterly desperate, and his numbers might actually look better. Edgy DC Jul 23 2009 11:33 AM I'm really not quite that hot, but thank you. Frayed Knot Jul 23 2009 11:43 AM ="metirish"]Chris Duncan is a meat head , or is that his brother? All Duncans are meat-heads. Including Sandy I'm told. ]I'm really not quite that hot, but thank you. Even when you do your hair like that? seawolf17 Jul 23 2009 12:14 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]There's a bit of lunk to the galoot. I like how the watermark makes it look like it's "proof" that he's a galoot. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 23 2009 01:05 PM ="seawolf17"]="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]There's a bit of lunk to the galoot. I like how the watermark makes it look like it's "proof" that he's a galoot. The look on his face-- half "O" face, half confused St. Bernard-- helps. I hope he finds International League trophies just as fuckable-- by all reports, he's headed for RI. Ashie62 Jul 23 2009 08:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":p8keo0dg]="metirish":p8keo0dg]Chris Duncan is a meat head , or is that his brother?[/quote:p8keo0dg][/quote:p8keo0dg] All Duncans are meat-heads. Including Sandy I'm told. Would that be MFY AAA meathead Shelly Duncan or the pixie actress of stage and screen possibly? Nymr83 Jul 24 2009 10:54 AM ]The Athletics and Cardinals have completed a trade that sends outfielder Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen, sources confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney. Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 11:05 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 24 2009 11:10 AM ="Nymr83"]The Athletics and Cardinals have completed a trade that sends outfielder Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen, sources confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney. Wallace is the interesting name here. Considered to be among the best college bats to come along in many years, he was passed over by a number of teams (StL got him with the #13 pick) out of concern for where he'd play. In short, he's HUGE!, and huge as in wide not as in tall (BB-Ref lists him at 6' 1" - 245). In 'Moneyball' terms (since he's headed to Oakland) "he wears a big pair of underwear". The thought is that he'll be a DH sooner rather than later which isn't a great thing to be saying about a guy not yet 23 y/o. For now, they say his hands are at least decent and he's not as immobile as he looks. But, above all, he can rake. Already at AAA barely a year after signing, he blew through three different levels in between and will probably be in Oakland before the year is out. But, man, Oakland sounds like they're putting together slow-pitch softball teams again. Between Giambi, Jack Cust, Daric Barton (also snagged in a trade w/StL - for Mulder) and now Wallace they've got at least 4 'stocky' (I'm being nice here) 1B/DH types not seen since the days when the brothers Giambi were teamed with Matt Stairs & John Jaha. Edgy DC Jul 24 2009 11:09 AM I saw some on him. I liked his waddle. Like a lefthanded Bob Horner. Frayed Knot Jul 24 2009 01:28 PM Or maybe the lefty who ate Bob Horner. A quick peak at a Cardinal board showed an overall (though not universal) negative reaction - more based on thinking they gave up too much for a 2-month rental whose XBHs have trended from 84, 92, 65, 60 (proj) over the last 4 years than it was in thinking that either of the top 2 prospects were sure-fire studs. This Shane Peterson who went in the deal was their 2nd round pick from '08, the one right after they selected Wallace. There's also a story (Heyman) that LaRussa pushed for this in part because he didn't like and wasn't consulted on the Chris Duncan/Julio Lugo swap (and I don't guess his pitching coach was too high on it either). And, of course, the deal is made just in time so the Yanx don't have to see Holliday as Oakland is in NYC starting tonight. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2009 01:48 PM ="Frayed Knot"]Or maybe the lefty who ate Bob Horner. A quick peak at a Cardinal board showed an overall (though not universal) negative reaction - more based on thinking they gave up too much for a 2-month rental whose XBHs have trended from 84, 92, 65, 60 (proj) over the last 4 years than it was in thinking that either of the top 2 prospects were sure-fire studs. This Shane Peterson who went in the deal was their 2nd round pick from '08, the one right after they selected Wallace. There's also a story (Heyman) that LaRussa pushed for this in part because he didn't like and wasn't consulted on the Chris Duncan/Julio Lugo swap (and I don't guess his pitching coach was too high on it either). And, of course, the deal is made just in time so the Yanx don't have to see Holliday as Oakland is in NYC starting tonight. Just goes to show you how much of a buyer's market this is; the sheer number of potential in-it-to-win-it teams the last two years has resuscitated the good-old-fashioned deadline deal, however briefly, even in the face of cost constraints and the rising value of FA-compensatory draft picks. (Although it kinda seemed from Day One that Beane had an eye toward Holliday's departure-- like they acquired him almost exclusively like a short-sell, either for the draft picks or the trade value-- didn't it?) LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 27 2009 01:24 AM Consider the source, but still-- Re-heeeeeally? ]The Rangers remain in the market for a bat, with the Indians' Ryan Garko and Mets' Gary Sheffield among their targets, even though Sheffield currently is on the disabled list. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9854856/BoSox-involved-in-Halladay-talks-and-more- seawolf17 Jul 27 2009 08:07 AM I wish he hadn't gotten hurt, because I think Sheffield -- and possibly Livan -- are the Mets two best trading chips right now. I read somewhere recently that Sheffield would revolt if he got dealt, though, so as always with him, it'd be buyer beware. Frayed Knot Jul 27 2009 08:42 AM Sheffield always threatens to revolt - but the thing is, this time he could easily make it stick. He was all but ready to retire anyway after being released by Detroit; he had $14mil coming to him and nothing monetarily to gain from playing unless he's really lying and is secretly dying to play next year too only for a fraction of this year's salary. But the Mets (he claims) were a good fit for him and so he took the gig when offered. But now if dealt somewhere he doesn't like (I don't think he has any No-Trade protection) he can simply walk-away rather than pull up stakes and move across the country for 9 weeks and not lost a thing except a possible shot at another ring.

Chis Perez is struggling a bit after coming back from an injury, but he's outperforming most of our relievers, he has more upside than Parnell, and he already has closing experience on this level. The Mets could probably use somebody like him as much as they could use somebody like DeRosa. I'd call this a fair deal on both sides.

="Edgy DC":3551cmku]Not much in the way of clues behind either. Valentin had been playing the infield for Buffalo, and had just come off of the DL. Maybe he was unable to catch and when he hadn't recovered his catchiness while recuperating, they cut their losses.[/quote:3551cmku] That sounds plausible. It would seem odd at face value to cut their next best catching option after dealing Castro, but if he can't catch then he's not really worth much. And we still have Robinson Cancel in case of an emergency. ="Edgy DC":3551cmku]With no further info, I'm guessing he either (1) became a casualty in the Mets fake war against dogging, or (2) became distraught when Evans got promoted over him and asked for his release, either explictily or through pouting and dogging.[/quote:3551cmku] Well he did beat the throw, so I doubt it had to do with dogging. But I wouldn't put it beyond Pena to take getting passed over on a promotion poorly. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 22 2009 11:06 AM ="smg58":h2tlz1zf]="Edgy DC":h2tlz1zf]Not much in the way of clues behind either. Valentin had been playing the infield for Buffalo, and had just come off of the DL. Maybe he was unable to catch and when he hadn't recovered his catchiness while recuperating, they cut their losses.[/quote:h2tlz1zf] That sounds plausible. It would seem odd at face value to cut their next best catching option after dealing Castro, but if he can't catch then he's not really worth much. And we still have Robinson Cancel in case of an emergency. ="Edgy DC":h2tlz1zf]With no further info, I'm guessing he either (1) became a casualty in the Mets fake war against dogging, or (2) became distraught when Evans got promoted over him and asked for his release, either explictily or through pouting and dogging.[/quote:h2tlz1zf] Well he did beat the throw, so I doubt it had to do with dogging. But I wouldn't put it beyond Pena to take getting passed over on a promotion poorly.[/quote:h2tlz1zf] Refused assignment with the Nats earlier this year-- it's how he got released. It doesn't seem implausible he signed with the Mets thinking he was 'one away' and felt betrayed in some way when that didn't immediately materialize. (I'm not sure I understand Evans over him, either. Ah, well.) Fman99 Jun 22 2009 12:27 PM Dumb. Like the Mets don't need an OF with pop in his bat. I continue to be mystified by Omar and Jerry and their "boobery" of roster and lineup management. metirish Jun 22 2009 01:25 PM Pena is the kind of player that would thrive under Bobby Valentine , not that that means anything. Just that he reminds me of a Benny Agbayani type. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 22 2009 02:34 PM ="metirish":m03tfpx2]Pena is the kind of player that would thrive under Bobby Valentine , not that that means anything. Just that he reminds me of a Benny Agbayani type.[/quote:m03tfpx2] Except a LOT bigger. He wasn't exactly killing it up north, and is less "outfielder" than "a guy who can fake three OF positions," but he did have a higher home runs/PA (1/30) than half of today's starting lineup, and a three-or-four-year stretch in his recent rearview where he absotively posolutely murdered lefties. Unless he took a bat to somebody or fondled a batboy/girl/dog behind closed doors... I don't get it. Edgy DC Jun 22 2009 09:08 PM And Conor Robertson gets DFA'd. It's a bloodletting up in Buffalo. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 22 2009 09:19 PM Ike Davis in the meantime was promoted to AA. He was killing it in St. Lucie. He's the LH hitting 1Bman they drafted with their first pick last year. Connor Robertson was Jeff Wilpon's "addition by subtraction" booshit.

="Edgy DC":29uhdrce]If that list comesd out, the players association should sue MLB into oblivion.[/quote:29uhdrce] I agree, but two players on that list have already been outed, which is probably legal grounds enough. Anyway, back to Magglio. If he'd cost what Sheff cost (i.e. nothing), why not? Fman99 Jun 21 2009 02:25 PM ="smg58":3o1v0myq]="Edgy DC":3o1v0myq]If that list comesd out, the players association should sue MLB into oblivion.[/quote:3o1v0myq] I agree, but two players on that list have already been outed, which is probably legal grounds enough. Anyway, back to Magglio. If he'd cost what Sheff cost (i.e. nothing), why not?[/quote:3o1v0myq] Have you seen Sheff playing defense the last few weeks? Imagine the same in right field.

No Willy Mo, but Evans is up and F-Mart is down. I don't worry about the schedule. Yes the Rays are hot and we know what the Dodgers did to us last time, but we could have very easily won each of the last three series and a few guys are due to bust out.

Apparently Bruney and Frankie exchanged some words during batting practice today.

Does anybody besides me think it's odd that we haven't seen Stokes in more than a week? Is he hurt?

="bmfc1":d3tven2u]Castillo had no business being resigned, certainly no business being resigned through 2011, and shouldn't wear the Mets uniform any longer.[/quote:d3tven2u] Maybe, absolutely, and in an ideal world yes. But we have zero infield depth right now, and I doubt we could get any in return for him. We have to hope he redeems himself. MFS62 Jun 13 2009 08:54 AM ="Ashie62":3tsn5m79] Maybe Castillo thought it might go yard [/quote:3tsn5m79] Great 62 minds think alike. I beat ya' by a few minutes: http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11844&start=140 Later holychicken Jun 13 2009 09:34 AM ="seawolf17":23h2thif] You're so right. Teixeira needs to get a ton of credit for hustle there... it's really easy to just jog it out and give up, and I thought the same thing would have happened were the roles reversed.[/quote:23h2thif] I am honestly not convinced about this. They were just jogging around the bases and even Teixeira himself said that he "turned it on" when he got waved around. If Castillo had thrown to home instead of second, they probably would have gotten him. . . if he had been hustling, they wouldn't have gotten him. The ball was up in the air for a while. Swan Swan H Jun 13 2009 09:42 AM It would be unseemly to suggest that the great and hallowed Yankees were the mere beneficiaries of a gift victory, following the failures of their closer and big-money cleanup hitter. A scenario must be concocted whereby they 'earned' it somehow, and Teixiera's 'hustle' is slightly more plausible than the gnarled ghostly hand of Miller Huggins tugging on Castillo's elbow. OE: I'm starting to feel like Dean Wormer talking about Delta House. I should go watch an episode of 'Pushing Daisies' and chill before 4:00. Frayed Knot Jun 13 2009 09:52 AM ="holychicken"]="seawolf17"] You're so right. Teixeira needs to get a ton of credit for hustle there... it's really easy to just jog it out and give up, and I thought the same thing would have happened were the roles reversed. I am honestly not convinced about this. They were just jogging around the bases and even Teixeira himself said that he "turned it on" when he got waved around. If Castillo had thrown to home instead of second, they probably would have gotten him. . . if he had been hustling, they wouldn't have gotten him. The ball was up in the air for a while. I didn't see a camera angle showing Teixeira (and, really, why would there be one) but Ray Knight, on a play involving a huge error that some of you may remember, claimed later on that he "was busting it the entire way" when film clearly shows him doing nothing of the sort. He didn't turn on the jets until it was pointed out to him that the ball 'got by Buckner' at which point he could have crawled home and still made it. Credit for hustle - and/or memory of it - many times gets selectively assigned. Edgy DC Jun 13 2009 11:58 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 15 2009 10:27 AM We're in perspective trouble any day Ashie is the one credited with displaying his "great mind.." How about this. This is the speach Skipper Edgy gave his troops in his dreams last night. (Throw 15 bats across the clubhouse floor.) OK, sit down. I don't want nobody heading toward the shower and it won't matter if you do because I told the clubbie to turn the water off. First of all, Luis, I'm not going tell you you fucked up, because you know you did. But you commited two mental errors that completely undermined everything. You didn't use two hands, and you threw behind the winning run. Making an error is one thing, playing with your head up your ass is another. I shouldn't need to tell you but I apparently do. You stunk. Your teammates have stunk by making simple lazy mental plays like that --- not running balls out, one handed catches --- and I've stunk by tolerating it all without consequences for too long. For you, you don't play the next two days, no matter how despearate I get. You show up, dress, sit on the bench, support the hell out of your stinking teammates, and go home. Other than that, this weekend is over for you. After that, we'll never speak of this. And I don't think we'll have to, because you'll be running hard, catching the ball with two hands, and keeping your stinky head in the game, right? As for the rest of you stinks, that's our new standard. Mental errors will get you pulled from the game straight away and another day on the bench to get your fool head straight. Multiple violations will be dealt with in a more serious and humiliating manner which I haven't thought of, because I frankly don't expect there to be multiple violations, and that's a dark part of my imagination I don't like to visit until I have to. Tonight, as I said, they'll be no showers. Razor is handing out subway cards. You'll all be putting on your street clothes over your stinky stinky bodies and taking the subway home so the good people who gave their time and money to support you tonight can ride next to you and tell you how much you stink. Fernando, you're a fine player and hopefully will be a big league all star someday, but tonight you're taking a bus to Buffalo. Usted va al Buffalo en un autobus. I don't want you anywhere near these stinking stinks right now. It leaves from Port Authority in an hour. I know 11 hours is a long time for your stinky body to be on a bus to Buffalo, but, if you don't like it, you can get off at Binghamton. If your manager says you're hustling and playing smart, you'll be back. Otherwise, get used to the busses. Delgado, Nieve is starting tomorrow. You make sure he gets home. The rest of you stinks are on your own. Enjoy travelling like real people and coming home to your wives all funky and shit. Personally, I think that's too good for you. I'll see you tomorrow which I fucking expect to be the hustlingest day in New York Mets history. Because if it's not, I will go apeshit. Now I'm letting the reporters in. Tell them how much you stink. Don't hang this on Luis alone. You all have been humiliating yourselves and the city on the front of your jersey. Tell them that. Stinking stinkers. (Overturn post-game spread.)How about that? Ashie62 Jun 13 2009 12:29 PM Works for me..don't think Willie would ever consider it..Now Bobby V..yes, yes he would MFS62 Jun 13 2009 01:10 PM Edgy, I hope in your dream that the window was wide open and you delivered it in your best Albert Finney voice. Or maybe you were just channeling this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLMl0CLIDLg Later Edgy DC Jun 13 2009 01:31 PM No, my model is more from Vincent Gardenia's performance in Bang the Drum Slowly. If you notice, I withhold the shower, rather than chase them into the shower. And I avoid exclamation points. I can't lose my temper anymore. Just can't. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 13 2009 05:36 PM Is this position looking silly yet? metirish Jun 13 2009 05:41 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":vio99rtk]Is this position looking silly yet?[/quote:vio99rtk] Very ...... Vic Sage Jun 15 2009 10:19 AM fire Jerry, hire Edgy! Now! Kong76 Jun 16 2009 03:10 PM I hope FAFIF isn't sore with us for ribbin' him. What a weekend.

Switzer's another one of those guys (like Chip Ambres, for example) who really has nothing left to prove at AAA but can't seem to stick at the big league level. Hopefully he'll make good now.

Does anybody know if something is wrong with Brian Stokes? Does anybody else think it's odd that we had three close games with Philly, two of which went extra innings, and we never saw him?

It really didn't sound like Larry ripped anything, to be honest.

From an injury/implosion perspective, things couldn't have possibly gone worse to this point. And yet they're still very much in contention, Reyes won't be out for that long, our bullpen is still better than it was last year, David Wright will finish with more than three home runs, Murphy and Tatis will not hit .150 out of the 1B position indefinitely, etc. I'm actually a bit optimistic.

Glad to see the Nationals again. (And dcbatgirl, too.) To quote Luka Bloom, "You couldn't have come at a better time."

Ryan Garko can catch, which is why he intrigues me more than DeRosa. But I'd be talking to the Indians about Cliff Lee first, and a righthanded bat second.

Murphy's strikeout rate is so low (14 in 145 AB's) that I can't see his batting average staying this low indefinitely. I think a bit more patience is in order.

="TheOldMole":2f9ucc2m]Another thought is they trade Church, whom Jerry doesn't love. But Sheff is going to need some significant rest as the season goes on, and I don't think they have too many outfielders.[/quote:2f9ucc2m] We don't have too many healthy ones, that's for sure. I don't think Martinez is clearly outplaying Church enough that he wouldn't go down if the outfield gets crowded again, but that's fine. I think I'd ultimately like to trade Church, but he has to be healthy and playing for that to happen. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 03 2009 09:24 AM ="Number 6":1upye901]I suppose I'm in the minority, but "Fartinez?" Really? Hope he outgrows that one.[/quote:1upye901] I like it. Of course, I invented it so as to head off people calling him "F-Mart" which is worse, I think. holychicken Jun 03 2009 10:02 AM If he grows out of Fartinez, I hope it isn't into F-Mart. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 03 2009 10:11 AM ="holychicken":1tgmvaff]If he grows out of Fartinez, I hope it isn't into F-Mart.[/quote:1tgmvaff] Am a fan of "F-Bomb," except, you know, he'll need to, like, hit and stuff. Failing that, I like "Drums." (Perhaps there's just something in the air this night...) Benjamin Grimm Jun 03 2009 11:01 AM I also like "F-Bomb." Or we can combine the two, and call him Fart-Bomb. I'm sure that would make his mother proud. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 09:18 AM Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid? metirish Jun 30 2009 09:23 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3pgjrab7]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:3pgjrab7] I like him , have been surprised with his glove in CF......Keith keeps talking about how Martinez has this huge stride.....over and over.....would he relay that to Hojo.....can Keith work with him or is that a no no? I like Martinez and I think if he starts hitting a bit he'll do fine. smg58 Jun 30 2009 09:28 AM I think he's got a bright future, but I'm not sure he's presently better than Jeremy Reed. A little more seasoning might do him good. Fman99 Jun 30 2009 12:27 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":32kqq1dp]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:32kqq1dp] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 12:43 PM ="Fman99":wzscw6l1]="John Cougar Lunchbucket":wzscw6l1]Could be the everyday CFer for awhile. Hits the ball pretty hard occasionally. What are your 2nd impressions of this kid?[/quote:wzscw6l1] He still seems overmatched to me (specifically at the plate), the same way Milledge and Gomez did before him. I understand, what other options do the Mets have? Ptooey. He looked atrocious chasing those high fastballs Sunday night. I groaned on the first one and predicted the second one.[/quote:wzscw6l1] Plate discipline's been an issue... as it kinda has throughout the minors (walk rate of 5.7%, swinging at pitches outside the zone to a 27.4% clip... which aren't too far out of line with the minor-league numbers). The guys who find their sea legs quickest tend to be those guys with good eyes-- power comes as they get used to ML pitching. I still have hopes for the kid... but any good feelings I have about him are mostly hope-derived. MFS62 Jun 30 2009 01:18 PM IIRC, he has started slowly at every level, then made the necessary adjustments and finished well. I hope he can continue to do that at the major league level. And I think he will. To quote Bob Murphy, "The cream always rises to the top". Later metirish Jun 30 2009 01:20 PM Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":1e8t12zp]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:1e8t12zp] Me? Whenever possible, I'm peeping the Mets-system guys, plus others friends of other teams point out. With guys like FM-- prized next-big-thing-types-- I'm hunting game footage online, clocking stuff like Fangraphs and Baseball Cube like they were shoplifters and I the bodega owner, and reading articles/articles about articles/articles about the validity of the article-based-articles about the kid. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:03 PM Good for you guys that do that, obviously i don't because I didn't even know that my adoptee had left the org. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:15 PM I used to follow the minor leaguers fairly closely back when The Sporting News was The Sporting News. Not so much since then. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 02:45 PM If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time. metirish Jun 30 2009 02:47 PM I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" indeed John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 02:51 PM ="Ceetar":eczhjo1j]If he plays, he's going to learn more at the major league level than the minors. Right now I have more confidence in him than the other Fernando that keeps finding his way into the lineup. I just keep expecting that one day Martinez will cross that line from prospect to hitter, and that it could basically happen at any time.[/quote:eczhjo1j] That's sort of where I am. I have to admit, I was like that with Carlos Gomez too. This fella looks a wee bit too hacky to me, but he hits it nice and hard. Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 02:52 PM I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 02:59 PM ="metirish"]I am reminded not for the first time the wise musings of Fran Healy...." how long before you go from prospect to suspect?" He's several years away from anything resembling that kind of make-or-break point. He's not ready now and wouldn't have been up the first time - much less twice - had it not been for all the problems on the big league level. His main problem is that his own minor injuries (or at least not recurring ones that lead you to think there'll be some constant problem) have prevented him from putting up consistent 500-600 AB seasons one usually needs for proper development. I'm not sure the Mets did him a favor by jumping him over a level two years back. But, even with all that, he's well ahead of schedule as compared to the average prospect and as long as fans don't go expecting multiple A-S appearances before he's 23 y/o he should be OK. Whether he becomes a real star in the future is still yet to be determined but we've got time to figure that out. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:01 PM Martinez will end up a much better player than Gomez, who looks like a track star with no bat to speak of. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 03:37 PM ="Ceetar"]="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:53 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]="Ceetar"]="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm sure it's at least a few years after your 20th birthday. I think Fernando may turn out to be a fine player, but I never got the sense that his ceiling is as high as many fans would like it to be. I remember posting in this forum that my feeling was that he'd be a Matt Lawton type, which would make him a fine, productive player, but somewhat less than a superstar. His ceiling is still well higher, even this year probably, than Tatis and Argenis Reyes. So put him in the lineup over those guys. Well, you're not putting him in the lineup-- unless it's in a roundabout, Church-moves-to-center way-- over either of those guys, since neither of them plays CF. And of course he has a higher ceiling... but at this point, the ballclub is not playing folk based on ceilings; it's playing them based on what they can do right now. If the club believes the season to be something of a lost cause, then and only then does player development becomes the primary priority, right? Well, normally. But with injuries, player development may actually play a key role this year. And I am talking about Martinez's ceiling for this year. Still probably higher than Tatis. who does sometimes play the outfield. Put reed in CF ocassionally, he's even hit okay this year. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 03:54 PM a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes. Ceetar Jun 30 2009 03:59 PM ="Nymr83":viqzp86x]a little leaguer has a higher ceiling than argenis reyes.[/quote:viqzp86x] Think he'll get an AB today? Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 04:38 PM i wish he'd get 3 of them today...for brooklyn! MFS62 Jun 30 2009 05:33 PM ="metirish":gytjn2ua]Do you seriously follow minor league baseball that closely?[/quote:gytjn2ua] Yes. Not a fanatic about it, but I do follow it. Later Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:22 PM Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:31 PM I'll disagree. Completely. Rockin' Doc Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM I think Martinez has goodphysical skills, but he is just too inexperienced to perform well at the major league level at this point in his development. He needs to develop better plate discipline before he can be succesful hitting at the major league level. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 08:41 PM ="Ashie62":1k307avk]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:1k307avk] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:46 PM ="Nymr83":3skti24a]="Ashie62":3skti24a]Although 20, Fartman should be further along. he looks green, scared and it doesn't appear any part of the game comes to him naturally. In other words he has few skills[/quote:3skti24a] he's further along than most twenty year olds who are probably playing A-ball or AA. tonight was the first time he didnt look good in the field and he friggin slipped, so did mike cameron the GG quality centerfielder, he just happened to have a softly hit ball and t hus time to recover. martinez has proven to my satisfaction that his bat isnt ready for the majors, but i dont think hes behind the curve for prospects his age by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote:3skti24a] You could be right..Lets just say he's not a natural John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM STFU Ashie. Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:47 PM Eat it. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:49 PM ="Edgy DC":2q29u44k]Eat it.[/quote:2q29u44k] What is your problem? Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 08:50 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3qti4rya]STFU Ashie.[/quote:3qti4rya] STFU JCL metirish Jun 30 2009 08:51 PM handbags in the 'pool....settle now boys Edgy DC Jun 30 2009 08:53 PM ="Ashie62":3gt2hkpu]="Edgy DC":3gt2hkpu]Eat it.[/quote:3gt2hkpu] What is your problem?[/quote:3gt2hkpu] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez. Ashie62 Jun 30 2009 09:03 PM ="Edgy DC":30q2invs]="Ashie62":30q2invs]="Edgy DC":30q2invs]Eat it.[/quote:30q2invs] What is your problem?[/quote:30q2invs] You get to ask me that when you aplogize for bitching me out under your other three identities, quitting the forum, and then crawling back here under different disuguises as if a three-year-old couldn't see through you. As for now, it's not me saying "Eat it," it's Martinez.[/quote:30q2invs] Apology posted

="smg58":2w5w8d0z]Putz has 20 innings in 33 games. That's a ridiculous workload to give a reliever coming off an injury. You have to protect your relievers sometimes too. The 2007 collapse happened in part because the pen crumbled from overwork.[/quote:2w5w8d0z] Even with recording no outs yesterday, Putz is on a 90-inning pace. Putz never broke 80 in his years with Seattle. And it couldn't be more obvious his arm is not 100% back. We have guys (Stokes for sure, probably Parnell and Takahashi too) who can take on more work. Manuel is not doing Putz or the team any favors sending him out this often. Edgy DC Jun 02 2009 08:14 AM I kept going over last night in my head. For what it's worth, J.J. didn't walk his way into trouble, but got Baltimore chopped to death. (Keith, you really don't know what that means? Grab a book.) Four seasons hop into my head --- the last two, 1985, and 1973. In the first three of these, the manager had a struggling righthanded reliever (last year, there were two), who was a big part of the team's plans going into the season. The manager in each case would find himself torn between the game at hand and the season at large. In order to win the game, you don't want to put it in the hands of a struggling pitcher. But in order to save the season, you want to redeem that struggling pitcher. So, rather than bury the guy, they downgrade him for one or two appearances before returning him to high-leverage situations. But I think that can be stubborn adherence to The Plan. And you can miss that a new --- perhaps better --- plan is emerging right before you. Davey Johnson in 1985 bounced Doug Sisk below Roger McDowell, but as the season wore on, McDowell was wearing down, and Sisk was still needed (and failing) in big situations. According to Bats, Frank Cashen had a deal on the table to move some prospects (it's never said which ones) to re-acquire Tom Seaver, which would have allowed him to move Rick Aguilera to the pen, where he had flourished in his few appearances and where he would eventually star. What's most bothersome to this day was that Johnson didn't want to move Aguilera because he didn't want to break with the plan, not only for 1985, but 1986, to which he was already looking ahead. The presence of Seaver would force him to rework his rotation, as if somebody (most likely Seaver) wouldn't get hurt and give Aguilera another chance at starting. In 2007, Willie Randolph always trying to redeem Guillermo Mota. He'd downgrade him for a few games and then return him to the mix. Granted, there were no obvious alternatives, but it took a while to even give Joe Smith more trust. Last year, the redemption of Heilman and Sanchez was continually stillborn while other alternatives fell by the wayside. The Mets have real alternatives here in Stokes and Parnell. I like working for redemption. The redemption of Tug McGraw (effected, it seems, by giving him two starts after all else had failed) was the story of 1973. But how about not returning Green and Putz to big moments until they show success after 10 appearances in the back of the pen, rather than two? And if some Eddie Kunz looks like he can move in there, give him a real crack at it. Adapt, baby! John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 02 2009 08:28 AM It's plainly obvious they are leaning way too heavily on Putz and I am convinced it is in the service of creating an illusion of a "lock-down pen" as overcompensation for 2008's failures. I'd give him Takahashi's role for a few weeks, slide Parnell and Stokes up a notch and score more fucking runs. Edgy DC Jun 02 2009 08:35 AM Seems obvious, doesn't it? Thing is, they did downgrade him. They just won't keep him down. Even that save he got was only because of an emergency shortage for that night. OlerudOwned Jun 02 2009 01:26 PM We could certainly benefit a lot from Sean Green turning things around. He's walking too many batters, his GB% is down 8 notches from last year, his FB% is up 10, and a nutty 16.7% of those fly balls are homers. Doesn't look like any physical problems, so hopefully he can work through it. Give him some innings at home, maybe. The flyballs can turn into outs instead of homers, and hopefully confidence would beget a return to form. Anything to lessen the load on Putz, because his arm is clearly not all there. Fman99 Jun 02 2009 01:41 PM ="Edgy DC":6cnbj2zu]Seems obvious, doesn't it? Thing is, they did downgrade him. They just won't keep him down. Even that save he got was only because of an emergency shortage for that night.[/quote:6cnbj2zu] Not only that, that save was the one punctuated by two tremendous plays on defense, on balls that were hit hard and turned into outs by Castillo/Wright and Ramon Martinez. Benjamin Grimm Jun 02 2009 01:49 PM Yeah. I took the Schaefer point I'd normally give for a one-inning save and divided it among Wright, Castillo, and Martinez.

I'm squarely in the middle on this one. The one guy left in Buffalo who's hitting at all is Javier Valentin, an experienced backup catcher, so we won't be in trouble in the event of another injury. Demoting Santos wouldn't make any sense if you think he's your best guy, which I suppose is debatable but it's pretty clear Manuel is leaning that way. On the other hand, I personally think the three catchers are more or less interchangeable, so if other teams are undervaluing Castro I'd have seen what one of the other two would have gotten me.

19-9 with a roster held together by duct tape. Who can complain?

There are very few backup catchers who hit as well as Castro, but the Mets telegraphed their lost interest in him to the point where he was valueless. Neither Schneider or Castro would have had any difficulty clearing waivers if they were sent down, but they could (and would, since they're both legit major leaguers) refuse the assignment and become free agents. Whoever signed them would pay as much of the bill as the CWS are footing for Castro. This way we at least get something.

="Triple Dee":20e91cie]Unhealthy BJs could be bad news for the Phils. If they rapidly fall out of contention, Halliday may be put on the trading bloc(k). There's no way he'll be traded to the Red Sox or Yanquis, which is likely to make the Mets the number one suitors.[/quote:20e91cie] There, that's better. In all seriousness, if Halladay and/or Cliff Lee go on the block we can't cry poverty. Edgy DC Jun 02 2009 02:13 PM NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #Philadelphia2920.592---------New York2822.5601.51.5112Atlanta2525.5004.57.5109Florida2428.4626.513.5106Washington1336.2651651.598 Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2009 04:49 AM I know we all pretend to be disinterested in the Wild Card (until, of course, it's the last weekend of the season and the division has been clinched and we desperately want the Wild Card) but the Mets are currently in a virtual tie for the WC lead with St. Louis. (They're actually .001 ahead.) Just thought I'd mention it. Frayed Knot Jun 08 2009 07:43 AM It helps that whilst Met fans wuz crying over the sweep in Pittsburgh and deeming barely acceptable their 2 of 3 over the Nats (and ranting about how good teams "don't let that happen", etc) the Cards were getting swept by the Rockies. Frayed Knot Jun 08 2009 03:00 PM BTW, that Cards-Rox series which I assumed was a 3-game sweep, wasn't. It was actually a 4-game series with the getaway game today ... and now it's a 4-game sweep by the Rockies. And in StL too. Edgy DC Jun 08 2009 07:32 PM NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #Philadelphia3322.600---------New York3025.5453.03.0105Atlanta2728.4916.09.0102Florida2731.4667.513.599Washington1540.27318.055.590NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #New York3025.545---------St. Louis3127.5340.50.5105San Francisco2926.5271.01.5106Chicago2826.5191.53.0106Cincinnati2927.5181.53.0105Atlanta2728.4913.010.5104Florida2731.4664.519.0101Pttsburgh2630.4644.519.0102San Diego2630.4644.519.0102Houston2530.4555.024.0102Arizona2532.4396.034.0101Colorado2532.4396.034.0101Washington1540.27315.0142.092 Edgy DC Jun 15 2009 08:38 PM Florida is making another small move in the east, while the Mets have relinquished the wild card for now. Colrado has absolutely exploded, knocking a ton of net games back off as they move from next to last to the middle of the pack. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #Philadelphia3625.590---------New York3229.5254.04.098Florida3233.4926.08.094Atlanta3032.4826.59.595Washington1645.26220.063.582NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #San Francisco3428.548---------St. Louis3430.5311.01.099New York3229.5251.52.0100Cincinnati3131.5003.06.598Chicago3030.5003.06.599Florida3233.4923.59.096Colorado3132.4923.59.0101Atlanta3032.4824.011.597Pttsburgh3033.4764.516.596Houston2932.4754.516.597San Diego2834.4526.031.595Arizona2737.4228.053.592Washington1645.26217.5167.584 Willets Point Jun 15 2009 10:02 PM All thing considered, 4 GB in mid-June ain't too shabby. Gwreck Jun 15 2009 11:01 PM The Phillies aren't as good as they were last year (particularly Lidge and Rollins). I can certainly see the Mets passing them, maybe with a Philly injury and the Mets getting some players back. Edgy DC Jun 16 2009 05:30 AM The Mets have turn it on, though. One way, and not a crazy one, of looking at "The Phillies aren't as good as they were last year (particularly Lidge and Rollins)," is to realize the Phils sure have the potential to get better. Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2009 12:36 PM ="metirish (in another thread)":20pgmzma]With 101 games to go what would the Mets need to do realistically the rest of the way? After they fired Willie they went 55-38 in the remaining 93 games . Need to win 60 games?[/quote:20pgmzma] I haven't done this yet this year, but here's what Baseball Prospectus is currently saying: Average wins by position in NL East: 92.7 86.4 80.7 74.6 61.7 92.8 NL East W L Pct3 Avg W Avg L Champions Wild Card Playoffs 1D Change 7D Change Phillies 36 25 .514 88.8 73.2 46.66633 14.85141 61.51774 .04575 -1.48791 Mets 32 29 .544 87.7 74.3 41.41762 13.35543 54.77305 .17262 -0.79291 Marlins 32 33 .485 79.3 82.7 6.56945 4.60971 11.17916 .04267 6.61307 Braves 30 32 .485 78.1 83.9 5.33545 3.61399 8.94944 .10715 -7.83416 Nationals 16 45 .456 62.1 99.9 .01115 .00837 .01952 -0.00110 -0.04799 The Dodgers are at 97.4% for the playoffs, 94.3 for the division. The most likely wild card team is Colorado, currently in 3rd place, with 17.4%. (Phillies are the second most likely wild card, followed by the Mets and the Giants.) In the American League, the Red Sox score highest, at 77.8% for the playoffs. Yankees are at 47.0%. They both are about equal for the wild card (at 26 to 27 per cent), but the Red Sox are way ahead for the division, leading 50.4% to 20.6%. I can see why that Orioles fan is boasting, by the way. His team's chances: .05655 division .22353 wild card .28008 overall. HahnSolo Jun 16 2009 12:45 PM Oh, god no, not the BP projections! I vowed not to read these after absorbing them for 2 straight Septembers. have mercy on me, Grimm. Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2009 12:53 PM Don't worry, I have no plans to make this a daily feature... yet. I have my doubts right now that the Mets will be involved in a gripping September pennant race anyway. Ashie62 Jun 17 2009 04:52 AM BP Over 50/50 shot...Was kinda hoping for 80 percent wire to wire..Probably asking to much on my end John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 17 2009 05:36 AM Picked up a game on the whole division last nite. Centerfield Jun 17 2009 07:17 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":wvotfwll]Don't worry, I have no plans to make this a daily feature... yet. I have my doubts right now that the Mets will be involved in a gripping September pennant race anyway.[/quote:wvotfwll] You think they're gonna run away with the division? Wow, that's some confidence. Benjamin Grimm Jun 25 2009 01:56 PM One game out of first place. If Tampa Bay does us a favor tonight, it'll be only a half. Perhaps the Mets will leave Philadelphia in first place next week. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 25 2009 01:58 PM We got a cupcake at home coming up, I don't see how we could get out of this weekend not in first. Edgy DC Jun 25 2009 10:51 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jul 31 2009 07:51 AM The whole field has truncated since the last update, with expansion brethren Colorado and Florida heating up the most. Even Washington has gained some ground. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #Philadelphia3733.529---------New York3734.5210.50.592Florida3836.5141.01.590Atlanta3438.4724.010.588Washington2149.30016.058.577 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #San Francisco3932.549---------Milwaukee3834.5281.51.499New York3734.5212.02.590Colorado3735.5142.54.089Florida3836.5142.54.088Cincinnati3536.4934.011.588Chicago3435.4934.011.589Atlanta3438.4725.522.086Houston3337.4715.522.087Pttsburgh3339.4586.531.085San Diego3140.4378.050.584Arizona3042.4179.562.582Washington2149.30017.5158.575 Willets Point Jun 25 2009 11:11 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":3i3p78g1]Perhaps the Mets will leave Philadelphia in first place next week.[/quote:3i3p78g1] That can be interpreted in two different ways: 1. The Mets will depart the city of Philadelphia having gained first place for themselves. 2. The Mets will lose and thus the team from Philadelphia will remain in sole possession of first place. Gwreck Jun 25 2009 11:31 PM Which do you think it is? Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2009 05:45 AM Let me rephrase then... Perhaps the Mets, upon their departure from Philadelphia next week, will find themselves with the best record in the National League East. Edgy DC Jun 26 2009 08:45 PM Hey, we're in first place. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 06:11 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 07 2009 07:18 AM Wow, I haven't posted since the Mets were in first. The good news is that, in the day and a half since the Mets last played (and lost), they have passed two teams (one intradivision) in the standings. The bad news is that the sterategy of moving ahead by not playing isn't very sustainable. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia4337.538---------48.17926Florida4341.5122.02.07918.79686New York3942.4814.57.07821.36100Atlanta3943.4765.08.57711.65843Washington2455.30419.064.5640.00446 NL Wildcard TeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsSan Francisco4537.549---------24.55501Colorado4339.5242.02.07936.45378Milwaukee4339.5242.02.0795.20361Florida4139.5133.05.0792.99581Chicago4341.5123.05.0773.12304Cincinnati4041.4944.512.5771.71817Houston4041.4944.512.5771.13201New York3942.4815.519.5763.12304Atlanta3943.4766.023.5752.08225Pttsburgh3746.4468.546.0720.56024San Diego3547.42710.061.0710.14075Arizona3449.41011.577.5690.26129Washington2456.30020.0179.5620.00053 Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2009 06:51 AM Yikes... eighth place in the Wild Card race? Just a few weeks ago they were in first or second. Things look pretty grim, but not so bad that a sustained hot streak wouldn't cure. But is this team capable of a sustained hot streak? Sure doesn't look like it. Edgy DC Jul 07 2009 07:22 AM The overlooked here continues to be the turnabout Colorado had had over the last few weeks. I ain't telling you what to believe, but if you want to still root, take it one team at a time. Root for the Mets, and root like heck against Houston. Once they pass Houston, the Astros become the Mets allies in helping them pick off the teams ahead. I'm not going to tell you it's not a slog ahead. TransMonk Jul 08 2009 08:07 AM 39-43. This is the first time the Mets have been 4 games under .500 since 9/17/05. metirish Jul 08 2009 08:09 AM The Mets are losers of nine of their last eleven games. I expect to be in fourth place in the next few days. Edgy DC Jul 13 2009 08:23 AM The pattern of fortune's vunlerability to change dramatically each day in the NL East lends an air of bigitude to the Mets upcoming series with the Braves. Is anybody in the press noticing the extended surge of the Rockies? Look how dramatically they lead without leading in the wildcard race. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia4838.558---------60.36533Florida4644.5114.04.07115.70618Atlanta4345.4896.08.07012.38783New York4245.4836.59.57011.54009Washington2661.29922.573.5540.00058 NL Wildcard TeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsSan Francisco4939.557---------27.11857Colorado4741.5342.02.07345.51423Milwaukee4543.5114.06.0712.96857Florida4644.5114.06.0403.00459Chicago4343.5005.010.0713.18395Houston4444.5005.010.0700.71723Atlanta4345.4896.016.0691.13201Cincinnati4245.4836.519.5690.68224New York4245.4836.519.5692.23495Pttsburgh3850.43211.060.0640.12630Arizona3851.42711.565.0620.19441San Diego3652.40913.081.5620.01837Washington2661.29922.5195.5530.00010 Nymr83 Jul 13 2009 08:50 AM ]Washington 26 61 .299 22.5 73.5 54 0.00058 so they'll win the division 6 times out of 1,000,000? that takes into account the chances that they trade for Albert Pujols, Tim Lincecum, Hanley Ramirez, Manny Ramirez, Dustin Pedroia, Evan Longoria, and Zack Greinke all before the end of the day, right? Edgy DC Jul 13 2009 08:56 AM Plague years, I believe. Nymr83 Jul 13 2009 08:59 AM I also did not take into account the chances that the Mets, Braves, Marlins, and Phillies would all get paid off to lose the rest of their games. Edgy DC Jul 27 2009 02:02 PM Chicago --- recently compared to the Mets as far as being disappointing --- has re-asserted themselves and edged ahead of the Cards, thought St. Louis still is shown as more likely to win the division according to Baseball Prospectus. The Mets series win helped put a brake on a long streaking period by Houston climbing the standings, and it also allowed them to pass Cincinnati. So the Reds are now one of the teams you are allowed to root for. Milwaukee is sliding and their the next team we are looking for the Mets to pick off. Washington is eliminated from both races to the fifth decimal place of a percentage point. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia5640.583---------71.92603Atlanta5148.5156.56.55918.94809Florida5148.5156.56.5596.65038New York4651.47410.518.5562.47551Washington3068.30627.084.5390.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsColorado5444.551---------58.03895San Francisco5246.5312.02.0639.07787St. Louis5348.5252.53.0613.54684Atlanta5148.5153.56.0618.31609Florida5148.5153.56.0613.47697Houston5048.5104.08.5610.87862Milwaukee4949.5005.014.5600.89282New York4651.4747.532.0580.37380Cincinnati4453.4549.548.0560.07017Pttsburgh4355.43911.061.5540.02579Arizona4356.43411.566.5530.09422San Diego3861.38416.5121.5480.00010Washington3068.30624.0211.5410.00000 Edgy DC Jul 31 2009 07:45 AM Not a lot of movement during the series, except, you know, the Mets knocked Colorado off the top perch in the Wild Card race. No matter, says Baseball Prospectus, who is still doubling down on the Rockies. The Mets are only a game closer to the top, but cut their net gap from 32 to 26, so that's good. Similarly, they pulled three games closer in the Net column in the division race, such as it is. In other words, this run has been nice, but it has to be sustained to be meaningful. Catching Milwaukee and/or Houston over the next few days would be very meaningful. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia5842.580---------73.50793Florida5349.5206.06.0568.16545Atlanta5250.5107.08.05515.18698New York4952.4859.515.5533.13963Washington3270.31427.085.5350.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsSan Francisco5646.549---------18.97177Colorado5547.5391.01.06045.52084St. Louis5649.5331.52.0586.05652Florida5349.5203.06.5584.07728Atlanta5250.5104.010.5576.77887Houston5151.5005.015.5560.65272Milwaukee5151.5005.015.5560.78867New York4952.4856.526.0550.62566Cincinnati4556.44610.558.0510.01369Arizona4458.43112.071.5490.04786Pttsburgh4358.42612.576.5490.00565San Diego4162.39815.5109.5450.00005Washington3270.31424.0211.5370.00000 Edgy DC Aug 04 2009 12:41 PM NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia5640.583---------74.89575Atlanta5148.5156.56.55913.43997Florida5148.5156.56.55910.06658New York4651.47410.518.5561.59770Washington3068.30627.084.5390.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsColorado5444.551---------58.95294San Francisco5246.5312.02.06316.21132St. Louis5348.5252.53.0613.44353Atlanta5148.5153.56.0612.64151Florida5148.5153.56.0613.85554Houston5048.5104.08.5610.39682Milwaukee4949.5005.014.5600.44886New York4651.4747.532.0580.12738Cincinnati4453.4549.548.0560.00121Pttsburgh4355.43911.061.5540.00172Arizona4356.43411.566.5530.06649San Diego3861.38416.5121.5480.00031Washington3068.30624.0211.5410.00000 Net Met Post-Season Likelihood: 1.47032% Ashie62 Aug 04 2009 12:50 PM ="metirish":37imwhfz]The Mets are losers of nine of their last eleven games. I expect to be in fourth place in the next few days.[/quote:37imwhfz] We have a winner! Give the man a set of steaknives TransMonk Aug 04 2009 12:51 PM ="Edgy DC":1wacunne] Net Met Post-Season Likelihood: 1.47032%[/quote:1wacunne] Met Post-Season Likelihood on Sept 12, 2007: 99.80% Stranger things have happened. Stranger and far more depressing. Ashie62 Aug 04 2009 01:00 PM ="TransMonk":1oi9gbzs]="Edgy DC":1oi9gbzs] Net Met Post-Season Likelihood: 1.47032%[/quote:1oi9gbzs] Met Post-Season Likelihood on Sept 12, 2007: 99.80% Stranger things have happened. Stranger and far more depressing.[/quote:1oi9gbzs] Wow** Strangely that just made my day. After all they are the Amazin Mets Edgy DC Aug 06 2009 08:06 AM Well, that lousy loss the night before last burns the Mets badly as their net post-season odds dip toward the 1% mark. Milwaukee moves up a bit, so the Mets have to eye Houston first, but you know, the Fish are slipping also. San Fran re-takes the top wildcard slot, but Baseball Prospectus still is totally not impressed. They love the Rocks. San Diego joins the Nats among teams not shouldered with the burden of a visible post-season possiblity. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia6045.571---------75.75257Florida5552.5146.06.0519.14475Atlanta5553.5096.57.05014.03328New York5156.47710.017.5471.06940Washington3672.33325.579.5310.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsSan Francisco6048.556---------22.82055Colorado5948.5510.50.55554.46296St. Louis5951.5362.03.5542.71764Florida5552.5144.511.0522.38452Atlanta5553.5095.013.0513.43947Milwaukee5454.5006.018.0500.41470Houston5355.4917.024.0480.11615New York5156.4778.534.5470.27858Arizona4959.45411.054.5440.11468Cincinnati4661.43013.577.0420.00048Pttsburgh4562.42114.587.0410.00063San Diego4465.40416.5109.0380.00000Washington3672.33324.0199.0310.00000 Edgy DC Aug 10 2009 07:57 PM The Mets are Santa Claus right now, giving hope to all the poor children, first Arizona, then San Diego, who actually has come back from having no chance of winning within five decimal places of a percentage point. Mercy. Not so resuscitated is Washington, who despite winning a fuky eight straight, still aren't showing any numbers but goose eggs, but they've closed their wild card gap from 199 net games to 173. Another seven months at this pace and who knows? Normally I'd cheer the Nats onward, reasoning that any success by a team behind the Mets in the standings helps the Mets pick off opponents, but this week stank so solidly that I view Washington's success as a threat by them to somehow catch the Mets in the standings. Show me something, SHaMs. NL EastTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsPhiladelphia6148.560---------58.10719Florida5853.5234.04.04915.91526Atlanta5854.5184.55.04825.56209New York5259.46810.021.5430.41546Washington4072.35722.571.5300.00000 NL WildcardTeamWL%GBNet GBElim. #BP % ChampsColorado6150.550---------51.36310San Francisco6150.550---------18.00222Chicago5851.5322.04.0514.56220Florida5853.5233.07.0493.87031Atlanta5854.5183.59.0484.75462Houston5556.4956.021.5460.16014Milwaukee5556.4956.021.5460.41311New York5259.4689.042.5430.08468Arizona5062.44611.562.5400.03717Cincinnati4862.43612.571.5400.00078San Diego4766.41615.096.5360.00003Pttsburgh4566.40516.0107.5360.00000Washington4072.35721.5173.5300.00000 Elster88 Aug 10 2009 08:55 PM ]I view Washington's success as a threat by them to somehow catch the Mets in the standings. That just depressed the hell out of me. duan Aug 11 2009 05:34 AM i don't know every time they look like they *just might* put something together that'd mean they'd claw their way TOWARDS being at least able to duke it out in September they lose two straight and fall back off. I'm still cool with saying if they go 13-6 or something in the remaining August games they'll be well in it, but there's only so many times they can fail to actually have one of those runs and still be able to put enough of them together. We've really missed a healthy John Maine. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 11 2009 12:06 PM Re: i don't know ="duan":exl5k9ys]We've really missed a healthy John Maine.[/quote:exl5k9ys] Since mid-2007. Edgy DC Aug 11 2009 12:53 PM We've missed three batsmen a bunch more though. duan Aug 11 2009 05:08 PM ="Edgy DC":20movskg]We've missed three batsmen a bunch more though.[/quote:20movskg] totally, it's just that Pelfrey & Hernandez seem to alternate good & bad outings and whoever's in the 4th & 5th slots is usually pretty junky so on the days where we don't score 7 runs we lose more then half the time. I sorta feel if we just had one more stable starter we'd be close to .500 now and if the batters came back could make a go of it.

="Edgy DC"]I'm certain I didn't attribute it 100% to the CitiField configuration. It's a factor, not the factor. The Mets could help themselves in this regard by having Subway put up a sign that isn't yellow and white.

="Edgy DC":2xz68yq4]I'll say this for Boston --- they do not take dramatic losses sitting down. A lot of jumping from the dugout. A lot of guys down there wanted to throttle someone. I'm hoping it's like the yard full of chihuahuas up the street --- they get so frustrated that they can't get at my dog when we go past that they all turn on each other.[/quote:2xz68yq4] I'm hoping they ultimately take it out on the Yankees. Fman99 May 24 2009 08:40 PM ="Edgy DC":32orb9vd]Keith forgetting he's not in the dugout in uniform can be Keith at his best and his worst. I can't always make my mind up.[/quote:32orb9vd] No way, that's the goodest Keith. That's the "I'm sticking my tongue in Julia Louis-Dryfuss' mouth" Keith Hernandez. Edgy DC Jun 28 2009 07:57 PM Howie and Wayne more annoying than not tonight. Nymr83 Jun 28 2009 07:59 PM ="Edgy DC":2glyrs5t]Howie and Wayne more annoying than not tonight.[/quote:2glyrs5t] still beats espn's group Kong76 Jun 28 2009 07:59 PM How so? Can't be more annoying than Joe Morgan. At least tonight the Yankees are actually playing so he can talk about them without asking why is he talking about Derek Jeter and the Yankees. Edgy DC Jun 28 2009 07:59 PM Who is up in the pen? I don't know here. Edgy DC Jun 28 2009 08:15 PM Wow! Chrysler is making a model that makes 26 MPG! My heart is a-flutter! Kong76 Jun 28 2009 08:17 PM I think we were (are) in the wrong thread. Elster88 Jun 28 2009 08:51 PM ="smg58":khm9u9vu]="Edgy DC":khm9u9vu]I'll say this for Boston --- they do not take dramatic losses sitting down. A lot of jumping from the dugout. A lot of guys down there wanted to throttle someone. I'm hoping it's like the yard full of chihuahuas up the street --- they get so frustrated that they can't get at my dog when we go past that they all turn on each other.[/quote:khm9u9vu] I'm hoping they ultimately take it out on the Yankees.[/quote:khm9u9vu] I missed this post way back when. The mental image of Papelbon (after running up the steps and throwing his cap to the ground in what looked like a steroid-enhanced rage) turning, looking around, and ultimately knocking Pedroia to the ground and dry-humping him like a furious chihuahua is pretty funny. Edgy DC Jun 28 2009 08:57 PM Exactly like the chihuahuas. I didn't want to say explicitly.

"Indefinitely" turned out not to be very long. Given that Rodriguez couldn't have gone, that's a relief.

The Indians got DeRosa for three prospects not on their top-20 list. If they get somebody like Niese or more than that, they will have gotten a very nice return on their investment -- especially since DeRosa has paid rather tepid dividends up to this point. My interest in Johnson depends on Delgado's status. Although, if Delgado is back before the deadline, we would be in a position to trade one of them and get back at least the equivalent of what we first gave up. (Assuming we don't overpay, that is.) But the combination of Murphy at first and Sheffield, Beltran, and Church in the outfield (with Tatis playing somewhere against lefties) isn't so bad that I'd compromise our bullpen.