MFS62

Yep, Thigpen batted cleanup on that team. He was your typical "best arm on the squad" and an all-around athlete, playing in the field when he wasn't pitching. He was converted to pitching full time when he became a pro. If he had played in the NL and allowed to bat, who knows how good he would have been? Or if they would have converted him back to a position player. Later

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I don't know that one. Did the "Thrill" go to college in New Orleans? I seem to remember something about that. They played at either Southern Miss or Misisisippi State. Later

Elster88 wrote: ="MFS62"]="sharpie"] Also, Will Clark didn't make the cut -- he was another one of those anointed very early. How early? He didn't even bat cleanup on his college team. (Neither did teammate Raffy Palmiero.) Later Before hitting 45+ home runs a year became the norm for the league leader. So, you're not going to ask who the cleanup hitter was on that college team? He made the majors, too. Or do you know the answer to this classic trivia question? Later

sharpie wrote: Also, Will Clark didn't make the cut -- he was another one of those anointed very early. How early? He didn't even bat cleanup on his college team. (Neither did teammate Raffy Palmiero.) Later

A closer of the current eligibles breaks through the glass 75% ceiling. And it wasn't a poultry- named Yankee. Later

smg58 wrote: You say Tejeda, and I say Tejada, Tejeda, Tejada, Tejada, Tejeda, let's call the whole thing off... You keep that up and you'll have to spin off a new thread about "what is Fred Astaire's uniform number?" Therefore, let's keep the calling off off. Later

Edgy, Remember, you threw that first girder across the tracks. LOL! Later

Voice of caution here. I recall that when the Mets drafted, then signed, Aaron Heilmann, it was reported that he was "closest to the majors" of anypitcher inthatyear's draft. Pundits estimated he would be "a number 2 or 3 starter" in the majors by the middle of the following year Let's just see what happens with Pelfrey Later

Iubitul wrote: I've always believed that if you have to ask if a player should be in the hall of fame, then the answer should be no. After thinking long and hard, I would vote for no one on this ballot. Then I'll bet you're waiting breathlessly for next year's ballot when Bobby Bonilla, Derek Bell, and Darryl Hamilton will be on it. And, yes, Mole, Al Schact too. I forgot about him. IIRC Al performed mainly in major league parks while Max spent most of his career making minor league crowds laugh. Later

]Wright, a former St. Lucie Mets player, is a young, athletic player who has quickly become a fan favorite. D'oh! Later

Probably Ty Wiginton - at third base in 2003. He had fewer than 100 AB in 2002. Later

How ironic. But you look great in those fatigues. And thanks for the Barry Poris link. Later

Phillips Hired By Mets In an effort to bolster its Latin American scouting operations, the Mets hired ex-major leaguer Adolpho Phillips as chief scout in Panama. Later

Gee, when we used to hear him when he was pitching, I thought it was only one - mechanics. Later

TheOldMole wrote: She fell in love with baseball because of Damn Yankees, and she roots for the Yankees? We know she has a lot of money. But if she were smart, why would she be living in Brifgeport? Later

Found on another board. Later ******************************************************************************** Mets Defense of NL Pennant Offensive July 11, 2001 - The defending National League Champion New York Mets have won just 38 of their first 89 ball games in 2001. Is this really the same team that roughed up the San Francisco Giants and the St. Louis Cardinals last year on their way to the World Series? Not exactly the same team that they finished the year 2000 with, Mike Hampton was lost to free agency. Kevin Appier was signed to replace Hampton and Steve Trachsel was chosen by General Manager Steve Phillips over incumbent Bobby Jones. There are also a few new role players like Tsuyoshi Shinjo and Desi Relaford. Yet the nucleus of the team remained intact. So, what happened to the Mets? Coming into the season, the Mets offense relied on the two-headed monster of Mike Piazza and Edgardo Alfonzo. For the past two seasons, these two have hit well over .300 with plenty of power. Many pre-season prognosticators lamented over the lack of a strong supporting cast to these two, nobody expected that Piazza and especially Alfonzo to struggle like they have. In 2000, Alfonzo hit .324/.425/.542 (AVG/OBP/SLG), with 25 HRs and 94 RBIs. This season, Alfonzo has dropped precipitously to .233/.306/.420. Mike Piazza hit .324/.398/.614 in 2000, and has fallen to .276/.350/.541. Since his first season in 1992 (just 62 ABs), Piazza has never hit below .300 in a season. In addition to the big two, the Mets next three best hitters in 2000 have also under-produced. Benny Agbayani, Todd Zeile, and Jay Payton have all under-achieved. Last year, these three combined for 54 home runs and 201 RBIs. This season, they have amassed just 13 dingers and 70 RBIs. Agbayani and Payton have both been injured (as has Alfonzo), and Zeile's power numbers have not been up to his career standards. To top it off, Rey Ordonez is back at shortstop for the Mets. The three-time Gold Glove Award winner has not improved with the stick, in fact he has digressed. His numbers are .220/.270/.283! A .270 OBP combined with a .283 SLG is just horrific. Even if he did not make a single error, and made every conceivable play in the field (which he has not), there is no way he has helped this ball club. The only bright lights in the Mets' lineup have been Robin Ventura, who has bounced back from a sub par 2000, Desi Relaford, Joe McEwing, and Tsuyoshi Shinjo. This is not a group that scares many opposing pitchers. Top prospect OF Alex Escobar had two brief tours with the Mets, and it was obvious that he is not ready to help the club. Fundamentally, this group has been terrible. There was a stretch of 20 or 30 games when the Mets made a base running blunder or a mental miscue in the field in every game. It was ugly. The Mets are a slow team, underachieving at the plate, the last thing they need is poor fundamentals. Yet the Mets have not been able to hit a fly ball with a man on third, or execute in the field. The pitching has been up and down. Or more precisely, down and up. Early in the season, Kevin Appier and Glendon Rusch struggled mightily, Steve Trachsel pitched so poorly that he had to be sent to the minors, and Al Leiter injured his elbow. The Mets were left with Rick Reed, and four days of hitter feed. In the last month, the starters have rebounded. Kevin Appier has lowered his ERA from a season high of 5.62 on May 19, to 3.86 after his tremendous performance against the Yankees on July 7 in which he had a no-hitter into the sixth and allowed just four hits and no runs in eight innings. Glendon Rusch has also pitched better in the last month. He has stopped throwing the sinker as it just was not an effective pitch for him. Rusch has pitched effectively in each of his last five starts. Rick Reed has been the anchor of the staff all season. With any other offense behind him, he would likely have 10 wins by now. Al Leiter has followed his good year/bad year trend that he has had for the last few seasons. Perhaps he threw too many pitches in several outings last season, and that may have set him up for injury and relative ineffectiveness in 2001. Steve Trachsel sucks. Case closed. The bullpen has also been spotty. Armando Benitez has been perfect in save situations yet has given up several home runs that cost the Mets a ball game in non-save situations. Franco, Wendell, and Cook have been overworked as usual, and they have been hit more than usual. Rick White, and Donne Wall have been on and off the DL, and Wall has been terrible when healthy. Many Met fans lament the trade that sent Bubba Trammell to the Padres for Wall. Steve Phillips to the Rescue? So where do we go from here? The Mets are 13 games behind the first place Philadelphia Phillies and 12 games behind the second place Atlanta Braves. Are the Mets out of contention? Possibly� but not mathematically. Do the Mets still have a core team that can contend in 2002? Yes they do, as illustrated above, all of the Mets key offensive performers in 2000, are having off years in 2001. Of the five mentioned above (Piazza, Alfonzo, Agbayani, Payton, and Zeile), only two of them are over the age of 30 (Piazza and Zeile). The pitching staff is old but still above average. What kind of deal should Steve Phillips make? Should he grab an established big hitter and hope the Mets can get back in contention a la the Miracle Mets of 1969 or the "Ya Gotta Believe" Mets of 1973? Or perhaps the Mets should clean house and rebuild a shaky franchise with a below average farm system? The Mets need to establish some goals to improve the team as follows: 1. Get younger. The Mets are one of the oldest teams in major league baseball and it shows. They are also one of the slowest. 2. Get aggressive offensively. Bench Rey Ordonez, let Desi Relaford and Joe McEwing battle it out at shortstop and play guys who can hit it deep in the outfield. 3. Get rid of dead wood. Phillips must weed out older players that are falling off and stop signing older free agents to big contracts. 4. Stop the clubhouse obsession. The day following the World Series in 2000, Steve Phillips was not busy planning how to re-sign Mike Hampton or attract Alex Rodriguez. No, his number one priority was signing Lenny Harris to a two-year $2.2 millon deal! It has been said that the Mets have a great clubhouse, what a wonderful bunch of players. You would think some of that feel-good stuff would translate to an occasional clutch hit. Nope, and ironically the only clutch hitter this season has been a guy who does not understand a word Lenny Harris says (Shinjo). The Mets need to accomplish these goals and still field a competitive team. Believe it or not, young players are often better than older players. The key is to figure out which young players will develop. Easier said than done, but it is better to gamble on a young player whose prime is ahead of him than over-30 guys who will never repeat their best season. The list of deadwood is pretty long, and unfortunately most of those players have little value. Rey Ordonez tops the list, but his $4 million annual salary stands in the way of even the most optimistic suitor. Todd Zeile has some value as a third baseman, he just does not hit enough as a first baseman with a $6 million annual price tag. There are quite a few teams out there in need of a third baseman, the Mets would be wise to accept a B-grade prospect and pick up most of Zeile's salary. Even if they do not get a first baseman in the transaction, the Mets would probably score as many runs with Mark Johnson at first base� or heaven forbid Mike Piazza. Robin Ventura obviously has more value than Zeile. The Mets should be cautious about moving him though because he is a very good all-around player who may be worth what he is paid. The Mets should settle for nothing less than a top young pitcher for Ventura, if they choose to trade him. The Mets also have four guys who can play a decent center field in the majors in Payton, Escobar, Shinjo, and Perez. Although none of these players makes any money, these players have value and could bring a player back with better long-term value. The pitching staff is a tough nut. Reed, Leiter, and Appier are all older pitchers with big salaries. They are also winning pitchers that the Mets could ill-afford to lose if they hope to contend in 2002. The truth is the Mets need starting pitching. Trachsel is not the answer at number five. Dicky Gonzalez has limited upside. None of the other pitching prospects are close to making the big club. The Mets should send one or more of their ancient relievers out of town in return for some young starting pitching. The Manager Everybody says that Bobby Valentine is a great manager in terms of his baseball ability. If so, why is the team so poorly prepared? Desi Relaford forgets to cover first base on a bunt. Timo Perez bypasses the cutoff man. Hit and runs are missed and gunned down. The Mets are not working out over the All-Star break. They do not need to work on anything? Valentine is also a master of using his entire 25 man roster� in every game. Not only that, he uses his entire roster differently every game. A guy will bat second one day, seventh the next, and then leadoff. How is the player supposed to know his role if it is constantly changing? Why doesn't Valentine put in a good offensive lineup everyday? It seems like there are three punch and judy shortstop types in the lineup every day. Obviously a big part of the problem has been injuries. The Mets have been riddled with injury since day one. Now, they are starting to get healthy. It is time to give the team a consistent lineup, a lineup that has a chance to score. Here is one Bobby: SS McEwing / Relaford LF Agbayani 2B Alfonzo C Piazza 3B Ventura 1B Johnson / Zeile CF Payton RF Shinjo / Perez The 2000 New York Mets raised our expectations, the club raised the ticket prices, but the product on the field has failed to deliver. The future is not all bad, the Mets have a core of good baseball players. If they can get a little younger, and faster, and smarter, and � if they could get a clutch hit once in a while, then the future may be bright indeed. They did go to the World Series last season. Now it is time to start playing like champions.

Bret, you forgot Cleon Jones' 151OBS+ in 1969. Later

Nice, Thanks, Later

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Kevin Elster had a big offensive season years after he left the Mets. I think he once drove in 100 runs for the Texas Rangers. Close- his textbook definition of a career year saw him hit 24 HR with 99 RBI. (and I wonder if he still blames some slow footed player for not scoring from second on his single) Later

Is it safe to say that the only Met shortstop who went on to hit .300 for another teams after leaving the Mets was Aaron Ledesma? And that was in limited duty. And Felix Mantilla went to Boston and hit over 30 Homers (IIRC) with about a .275 BA. Thise were pretty decent offensive numbers for a pre-Ripken shortstop. Of course, from Vern Stephens and Joe Cronin to Rico Petrocelli, while other teams looked at short as a defensive position as someone said above (Zvon?) , the Sawks always seemed to have decent hitting shortstops in the pre-Ripken days. Later

Ever notice how quickly this place goes into the crapper when Edgy isn't around? Later

TheOldMole wrote: I'm the type who has to crap faster. We'll just let that pass. Later

WP, you're the Squid? I thought it was KC. Well, did YOU get your running in today? Later

The first baseman on my college team said he wanted to become a sports agent. His name was Barry Poris. That was in the mid 60's. In the 70's I noticed his name in an article as a player's agent. It was a Tiger, not big star (which is why I can't think of the player's name right now). Looking back on those Tiger teams, it might have been John Wockenfuss. And even if it wasn't, it was fun to type that name again. Later

seawolf17 wrote: Rey Ordonez. My guess is that's a wrong guess. Later