G-Fafif

Full AP story here. Most of the Mets Vic lists, alas, are not on the ballot despite their baseline eligibility. Most notably, no Reed, no Hundley and, shockingly, no Craig Paquette. ]The 23 players on this year's Hall of Fame ballot (Mets in bold): � Harold Baines � Jay Bell � Bert Blyleven � David Cone � Andre Dawson � Ron Gant � Mark Grace � Rickey Henderson � Tommy John � Don Mattingly � Mark McGwire � Jack Morris � Dale Murphy � Jesse Orosco � Dave Parker � Dan Plesac � Tim Raines � Jim Rice � Lee Smith � Alan Trammell � Greg Vaughn � Mo Vaughn � Matt Williams

Let's not forget the winter of 1961-62. Mets improved by 40 games as a result.

For pure wheeling and dealing, I remain a fan of 1974-75: � Sadecki and Moore for Torre � Dyer for Clines � Boswell for Gallagher � Martinez for Heidemann and Vail � McGraw, Schneck and Hahn for Unser, Stearns and Scarce � Cold hard cash for Kingman It's not so much that raging success boiled over as a result (though the Mets did improve by eleven games in the succeeding year). Nor is it that a new cast of characters who would write significant short- and long-term chapters in the Met saga (though a few did). It was the action, baby, the action. This was the penultimate pre-free agent winter and those winter meetings were a hotbed. The Tug-Del trade was the only one of the above that happened there but it was exciting to watch the Mets makes moves that, at least for 1975, didn't make them any worse than they already were. 2001-02 was also souped up (Appier for Vaughn; Lawton & Co. for Alomar; the nineteen-way deal that brought back Burnitz; re-signing Cedeno), but I'm not as big a fan, even though at the time I convinced myself I was. The aftermath has something to do with that.

="seawolf17":1jq5wyqz]While they're at it, can Citi cancel my credit card debt? That'd make my life a lot easier.[/quote:1jq5wyqz] You'd figure in all this there'd be some Mets Fan Interest Forgiveness Clause, wouldn't you? Vince Coleman Firecracker Nov 26 2008 10:57 AM ="seawolf17":2jtn576x]While they're at it, can Citi cancel my credit card debt? That'd make my life a lot easier.[/quote:2jtn576x] I'll change my name to "Citi" if they'll negate my student loans. HahnSolo Nov 26 2008 11:32 AM Mike Francesa has spoken. The Mets "must" return Citibank's money. He will elaborate later. Benjamin Grimm Nov 26 2008 11:33 AM That settles it then. soupcan Nov 26 2008 11:35 AM I'm going to go out on a limb and say that by this time next year nobody's going to care. metirish Nov 26 2008 11:52 AM Found this in the comments section responding to Wally. ] Ron Darling Hey Moron, the mets likely have a contract with Citi for the naming rights. If Citi doesn't want to back out, there's probably little the mets can do. Aside from that, the company looks at citifield as an extension of their advertising, which is required to attract attention and bring in new business. So, as they try to avoid going under, it's really not stupid to keep the naming rights if they estimate that the Return On Investment will be higher with this advertising than with other ads they may cut. Nice job rewriting your colleague's article just to get a few jabs in at the mets. you're a worthless piece of trash, you no talent hack. seawolf17 Nov 26 2008 12:33 PM ="metirish"]Found this in the comments section responding to Wally. ] Ron Darling Hey Moron, the mets likely have a contract with Citi for the naming rights. If Citi doesn't want to back out, there's probably little the mets can do. Aside from that, the company looks at citifield as an extension of their advertising, which is required to attract attention and bring in new business. So, as they try to avoid going under, it's really not stupid to keep the naming rights if they estimate that the Return On Investment will be higher with this advertising than with other ads they may cut. Nice job rewriting your colleague's article just to get a few jabs in at the mets. you're a worthless piece of trash, you no talent hack. That's why I like Ronnie... he pulls no punches. MadDog Nov 26 2008 12:34 PM ="HahnSolo":7y9z3mzz]Mike Francesa has spoken. The Mets "must" return Citibank's money. He will elaborate later.[/quote:7y9z3mzz] AH, COME ON, MIKE! YOU CAN'T JUST BE GIVING BACK THAT MONEY! THAT'S JEFF WILPON'S MONEY, MIKE! THAT WAS NEGOTIATED! FAIR AND SQUARE! Willets Point Nov 26 2008 01:14 PM ="soupcan":1wa54pzc]I'm going to go out on a limb and say that by this time next year nobody's going to care.[/quote:1wa54pzc] I already don't care. metsmarathon Nov 26 2008 01:34 PM honestly, with all the buckets of taxpayer money, both given to or not collected from the mets (and nearly every other major pro sports team), why is this spectre of $20 million/year so terribly abhorrent? i mean, its not like the bailout is going, specifically, to fund these dollars which were fairly agreed to prior to federal involvement. the mets are right to expect their money. i mean, i'd really like to see them not sell the naming rights to their building, personally, but given their choice to use it as a revenue stream, and citigroup's choice to use it as an advertisement, i see no problems. will the federal government look into all of citi's contractual obligations and force them to break those fairly negotiated contracts that have arguable ROI? ... if i were the mets, i think i would have to consider offering a buyout, though. enough to cover the expected $20 million this year, plus the cost of replacing the voluminous signage, plus a few million on top, for the trouble. but the wally mathews and mike francessas out there will only complain, unless hte mets give up the name for no cost whatsoever to citi, and then those same voices will criticize the mets for getting nothing in return. holychicken Nov 26 2008 01:51 PM ="MadDog":2lvkg2so]AH, COME ON, MIKE! YOU CAN'T JUST BE GIVING BACK THAT MONEY! THAT'S JEFF WILPON'S MONEY, MIKE! THAT WAS NEGOTIATED! FAIR AND SQUARE![/quote:2lvkg2so] You always crack me up. I love you maddog! But seriously, the show was much less terrible with Maddog. I used to listen to it on my commute home and now I just can't. Vince Coleman Firecracker Nov 26 2008 02:02 PM The last time I tuned into Francessa (I'd put the (sp?) here, but I don't really care to learn to spell his name correctly) was a few months back, after the story came out that the Yankees had been getting favorable assesments on their property so they could pay less taxes. Francesca dismissed a caller who brought this up, saying that no one cares about the relationship between the government, the taxpayers and the team. Now, (big surprise) he's up in arms because of the Mets' relationship to a third party's relationship to the government and taxpayers. Can't he catch that disease the guy from the Spin Doctors was rumored to have? The one where you can't speak for several years? Frayed Knot Nov 26 2008 06:21 PM ="HahnSolo":1fcl1b69]Mike Francesa has spoken. The Mets "must" return Citibank's money. He will elaborate later.[/quote:1fcl1b69] Only caught a minute or two of his reasoning, but the logic was along the lines of CitiGroup is now a forever tainted brand and therfore the Mets need to disassociate themselves from it. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but this isn't exactly an Enron situation where the bulprit was blatantly criminal activities by the heads of the company leading to complete destruction of the business. This was bad mgmt which may or may not be fixable but, otherwise, I don't get the parallel here. Chrysler, after all, was on the receiving end of gov't assistance several decades ago (late '70s?) and yet managed to rebound and go on to sponsor sports tourneys and other stuff without leaving a scarlet letter on everything they were attached to. metirish Nov 26 2008 06:24 PM Francesa just hung up on you. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2008 06:29 PM ="metirish":1lbnh8b8]Francesa just hung up on you.[/quote:1lbnh8b8] Irish, come on, The Great Francesa would never hang up on a caller! NO! He might give a big wave of his hand to let his board op know to cut the call off, but hang up? NEVAH! In fact, this thread deserves a giant handwave! Ashie62 Nov 26 2008 06:51 PM ="metirish":27odyq9t]Francesa just hung up on you.[/quote:27odyq9t] I wish I had that luck Irish...nice Ireland addition to the Avatar! soupcan Nov 26 2008 09:52 PM ="metirish":1hzpv5si]Francesa just hung up on you.[/quote:1hzpv5si] Made me laugh irish. metirish Nov 30 2008 07:00 PM Driving back from JFK tonight I saw the sign on that side of the stadium reading as " I FI LD" . SteveJRogers Nov 30 2008 07:19 PM ="metirish":1xy3j2m8]Driving back from JFK tonight I saw the sign on that side of the stadium reading as " I FI LD" .[/quote:1xy3j2m8] Better that the lights go out now then during the season! Ashie62 Dec 01 2008 10:09 PM They say root for the hat..but I think at this point I would be embarrased to sit in a structure named after Citigroup.. Then again my sorry ass can't afford to go anyway.. Omar..now go sign somebody!! metirish Dec 02 2008 01:42 PM Jeff speaks. ] THE ASSOCIATED PRESS 3:25 PM EST, December 2, 2008 The New York Mets say the name Citi Field will remain on their new ballpark and believe the struggling bank will survive its current economic crisis following a government bailout. Citigroup is paying the Mets $400 million over 20 years for naming rights to the stadium, scheduled to open next year. Two New York City councilmen said last week that the ballpark's name should be changed to Citi/Taxpayer Field. "We think we can bring the right people to help them market their product so that they can be a going concern," Mets chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon said Tuesday. "It's not really Citi's fault that they're in this problem. They're a lot of other banks in the same situation." metsguyinmichigan Dec 02 2008 03:06 PM I can see the point about the taxpayers. It seems stange to me when utilities who have monopolies spend money on naming rights. Why does DTE Energry here in Michigan and Keyspan need to advertise like that when eveyone gets their bill each month? We know who they are. (Naturally the Citi isn't a utility and didn't have the public money until this fall) Kong76 Dec 02 2008 03:31 PM AP: Mets chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon said Tuesday. "It's not really Citi's fault that they're in this problem. <=== Oh jeez. Valadius Dec 02 2008 04:29 PM Well Jeff Wilpon is a moron. That's not news. Nymr83 Dec 02 2008 05:04 PM Repeat after me idiot Wilpon: "it's not our fault that they are in this mess, we signed a contract and we'd be expected to perform our end of it even if it became a bad deal for us." Kong76 Dec 02 2008 05:04 PM I wasn't reporting anything, I quoted from a previous post, and oh jeezin' instead of commenting that the guy is a walking mic magnet for oh jeezable quotes and should avoid speaking at all. Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 05:20 PM You know --- in the names of Bobby Bonilla, Vince Coleman, Mel Rojas, Jeromy Burnitz, and Mo Vaughn --- it's kind of nice to see the Mets finally the one who collect on a long-term, big-dollar contract signed before the market shifted. SteveJRogers Dec 02 2008 06:51 PM ="metirish"]Driving back from JFK tonight I saw the sign on that side of the stadium reading as " I FI LD" . Not sure if this is from today, but here is a neat image of what Irish saw: metirish Dec 02 2008 07:01 PM That's exactly it , good find Steve. Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 07:10 PM Irish drives a dirigible. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2008 09:39 AM Photo gallery from the snooze: [url:1ahhortv]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/galleries/citi_field__inside__out/citi_field__inside__out.html[/url:1ahhortv] I gotta say, as long as I can get to a few games, I'm excited over a new park. metirish Dec 03 2008 09:52 AM Me too , can't wait really , started saving recently for a game I hope to go to in the summer. More pictures here http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-citifield-pg,0,3740511.photogallery Gwreck Dec 03 2008 10:41 AM ]I gotta say, as long as I can get to a few games, I'm excited over a new park. As a function of schedule or a function of price? We had some long and hard discussions about what to do with this new stadium. Once you get past the fact that it's a minimum of $100/seat to be anywhere on the infield (aside from the upper level)... Still, in the end, I found myself a lot more excited than I thought I would to be buying tickets today. My impression is that after being accustomed to Shea for so long it will take a very long time for the novelty of the new park to wear off. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2008 10:47 AM I'd only go to a small handful of games in either park. I was worried that demand for tixx would be too great to assure even that but I think I got a hookup for the small slate of games I will attend. Willets Point Dec 03 2008 10:52 AM When are they going to sell single-game tickets? Gwreck Dec 03 2008 11:19 AM Probably not until late February/early March. They'll first do the "lottery" for the opening night and games vs. MFYs, then the public sale a week or two later. I think ticket demand is not going to be too bad (economy; 2nd straight year of barely missing playoffs, etc). Benjamin Grimm Dec 06 2008 05:44 AM A clever suggestion from the New York Times: ] Citi Field by Any Other Name, Part II By Andrew Das With a column and a blog post, George Vecsey started a lively debate this week by proposing new names for the Mets� new ballpark, which will for now keep the name of its faltering financial sugar daddy, Citigroup. Some of George�s suggestions � Jackie Robinson Stadium, Gil Hodges Stadium � included homages to the city�s baseball past. Readers tossed out other ideas: Bailout Ballpark, Strawberry Field. WNYC�s Brian Lehrer weighed in when he took reader questions on our City Room blog this week. The name Citi Field is fast becoming a joke. Shall we rename it Taxpayer Field? Federal Reserve Park? Cover the infield with the Henry Paulson TARP? But Lehrer wasn�t done. He continued the discussion when he went on the air at WNYC (Chez Stadium has a nice expense-account flair to it), and that back and forth produced a name that I think appeals to everything from baseball history to the city�s history to fans� shared Citi anger. For now at least, the leader in the clubhouse has to be �. Debits Field. Benjamin Grimm Jan 29 2009 05:23 PM ="Cleveland Plain Dealer":3i00ad19]Cleveland Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich teamed up with Texas GOP Rep. Ted Poe on Thursday to demand that the Treasury Department force Citigroup to give up its $400 million stadium naming deal with the New York Mets baseball team. The congressmen wrote a letter to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner that observed the bank's finanical situation has worsened dramatically since it signed the Mets deal in 2006. Citigroup recently accepted billions of dollars in taxpayer bailout money and announced it's eliminating 50,000 jobs. "The Treasury Department, which forced Citigroup corporate executives to give up their private jet, should also demand that Citigroup cancel its $400 million advertisement at the Mets field and instead being to repay their debt to the taxpayers," Kucinich said in a press statement.[/quote:3i00ad19] John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 29 2009 05:47 PM thwack. metsmarathon Jan 29 2009 05:49 PM where else will they be forced to retract advertising? Nymr83 Jan 29 2009 06:41 PM ="metsmarathon":48x4xa6v]where else will they be forced to retract advertising?[/quote:48x4xa6v] nowhere, they'd rather just use a pro sports team as a scapegoat and ignore that it is advertising like any other. Kong76 Jan 29 2009 07:02 PM Not in response to anything said here, and I'm not big on the whole tortured Mets fan ideology that some fans carry around and like to wound lick about, but jeez on some level I can't help but grin to myself and think, "this could only happen to the freakin' Mets." We get a brand spankin' new park and watch Shea get torn down and the whole country is going to the crapper and the new stadium was going to be named (I'm certain it won't be Citi Field come opening day) by one of the biggest iconic reasons that things are so bad and now it will be fodder for every news outlet until it's named something else and it will be a trivia ques- tion twenty-five years from now and this has become a run-on so I'll stop. batmagadanleadoff Jan 29 2009 07:28 PM ="Kong76":1gdgi6hg] and the new stadium was going to be named (I'm certain it won't be Citi Field come opening day)....[/quote:1gdgi6hg] I'll probably refer to the new park as Shea Stadium. For years, I bet. To me, the 49ers play in Candlestick. And so do the baseball Giants. MFS62 Jan 29 2009 07:49 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":zgx7tsoo] To me, the 49ers play in Candlestick. And so do the baseball Giants.[/quote:zgx7tsoo] Gee, I remember the football team playing in Kezar Stadium (with sea gulls flying in front of the tv cameras) and the baseball team playing in Seals Stadium. Later Frayed Knot Jan 29 2009 08:18 PM ] ... jeez on some level I can't help but grin to myself and think, "this could only happen to the freakin' Mets." Astros fans forced to deal with 'Enron Field' might disagree there. Kong76 Jan 30 2009 04:47 AM Uey, they can't even get that right. Edgy DC Jan 30 2009 07:25 AM ]Cleveland Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich teamed up with Texas GOP Rep. Ted Poe This isn't exaclty Chris Van Hollen and John Boehner. It wouldn't be the first time I've been caught with my head in the sand, but I'm not sure this is anything more than a symbolic statment. I mean, that's what Kucinich's presidential run was. Under any circumstances, I'm highly distrustful of scapegoating maneuvers. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 30 2009 07:26 AM President Kucinich would move the Mets to Havana, prolly. Ashie62 Feb 03 2009 07:06 AM This mornings Wall Street Journal has an article the Citi is reconsidering the 400 million dollar naming rights deal. I don't have the online link but its in the Journal. Citi is being "directed" by the Treasury not to spend taxpayer dollars on this. It may not be fair but the Mets have no say on the contract and at best will receive some money as a walk away fee. Good thing the Patch is bare...Probably best to take the TARP stink off our new stadium...Lotta remodeling to do if Citi is knocked out. Royal Crown Cola field anyone? Ashie62 Feb 03 2009 07:07 AM Ooh! George Thomas Seaver! Do I get a bottle o Wine for this? I don't mean Wild Irish Rose Peach. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:10 AM Get a New Patch While You're At It The wheels are reportedly in motion to deCitify Citi Field. From WSJ: ]Citi Explores Breaking Mets Deal Bank That Got Bailout Cash Revisits $400 Million Pact to Put Name on Stadium By DAVID ENRICH, MATTHEW FUTTERMAN and DAMIAN PALETTA Citigroup Inc., eager to quell the controversy over how lenders are using government bailout money, is exploring the possibility of backing out of a nearly $400 million marketing deal with the New York Mets, say people familiar with the matter. Officials at Citigroup have made no final decision about whether to try to void the 20-year agreement, which includes naming the Mets' new baseball stadium after the bank, say these people. In a statement Monday, Citigroup said that "no TARP capital will be used" for the stadium -- referring to government funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program. But as it revisits the pact, Citigroup is essentially acknowledging that the volatile political climate could make it untenable for the bank to proceed with the deal. Citigroup, which has had total net losses of $28.5 billion since 2007, received $45 billion in bailout aid from the federal TARP program last fall. The government also agreed to shoulder most losses on a $301 billion pool of Citigroup's loans and other assets. Next week, Citigroup Chief Executive Vikram Pandit and other bank CEOs are scheduled to appear before a House committee, where they are likely to be pressed for answers about their use of taxpayer-funded capital through TARP. The Mets deal was attacked last week as an example of misplaced spending by financial institutions that needed bailout funds. Reps. Dennis Kucinich (D., Ohio) and Ted Poe (R., Texas) wrote to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Wednesday, asking him to push Citigroup to dissolve the Mets deal. "Citigroup is now dependent on the support of the federal government for its survival as an institution," the letter said. "As such, we do not believe Citigroup ought to spend $400 million to name a stadium at the same time that they accept over $350 billion in taxpayer support and guarantees." A re-examination of the Mets deal comes just days after President Barack Obama called it "shameful" that Wall Street firms doled out billions of dollars in bonuses even as Washington was spending taxpayer dollars to help bail them out. The Treasury Department hasn't been pushing the bank to break the contract, according to people with knowledge of the government's stance. Anger also is rising over signs that the massive capital infusion to U.S. banks hasn't resulted in a surge in lending. In a survey of banks released Monday, the Federal Reserve said about two-thirds of banks' loan officers reported that they tightened terms for business loans over the past three months. Under terms of the Mets deal, Citigroup has the right to plaster its name and logo around the arena, dubbed Citi Field, which is largely built and set to open in April in the New York City borough of Queens. Citigroup's contract with the Mets calls for the bank to pay the team roughly $20 million a year over two decades. The arrangement helped cover the costs of building Citi Field because it served as an asset the Mets could tout as they tried to lure private capital. While the Mets didn't receive direct taxpayer financing for the ballpark, the team did benefit from free land, infrastructure investments and tax-free bonds from the city government. Citigroup underwrote more than $600 million in bonds for the stadium. The bank's name and logo already adorn the stadium's walls. Citi Field is adjacent to Shea Stadium, the former home of the Mets, now being torn down. If Citigroup backs out of its agreement with the Mets, it likely wouldn't happen immediately and could involve the bank paying a breakup penalty to the Mets, people familiar with the situation said. "The Mets are fully committed to our contract with Citi," said Mets spokesman Jay Horwitz. A Citigroup spokesman said the bank "signed a legally binding agreement with the New York Mets in 2006." Within Citigroup, some officials believe the company should try to void the Mets pact in order to distance itself from unnecessary controversy. But other executives argue that trying to wiggle out of the contract will set a bad precedent. "If we cave for political reasons, it will have enormous implications for our ability to contract with third parties," said an executive who has been briefed on the discussions. When Citigroup and the Mets unveiled their pact in 2006, it was the richest naming-rights deal in baseball. Top executives including then-Chief Executive Charles Prince and Lewis Kaden, the Citigroup vice chairman who negotiated the deal, attended a groundbreaking ceremony with Mets players and officials. Citigroup has a number of other sports-marketing arrangements. Last month, it was the main sponsor of college football's Rose Bowl game. The company is sponsoring the 2010 national championship game. Citibank Park, which opened in 2000 in Central Islip, N.Y., is home to the Long Island Ducks minor-league baseball team. While some Citigroup executives are urging the company to scale back its advertising expenses to avoid public controversy, the company recently has been buying full-page ads in some major newspapers, touting its stability and lending. Last week, Citigroup stirred more controversy when the New York Post reported that the bank was planning to buy an expensive new luxury jet. The implication was that Citigroup was using a portion of its TARP funds to pay for the new jet. In response, Citigroup initially defended its plans, arguing that it placed the jet order in 2005 and that canceling the purchase would result in millions of dollars of penalties. The new jet also was supposed to replace two aging planes that Citigroup had put up for sale. Citigroup ultimately nixed the order under pressure from Treasury officials. By then, though, the bank had been publicly lashed by President Obama. "We shouldn't have to do that," he said, referring to the administration's suggestion that Citigroup not go through with the corporate-jet order, "because they should know better." If Citigroup parts ways with the Mets, other financial institutions may find themselves under pressure to reconsider sports-marketing deals. Bank of America Corp., which got $45 billion in government capital, signed a deal in 2004 for naming rights for the Carolina Panthers football stadium in Charlotte, N.C. Bank of America's 20-year deal calls for the bank to pay the Panthers $7.5 million a year, making it one of the National Football League's most expensive naming-rights deals. The Houston Texans receive $10 million a year from Reliant Energy Inc. Bank of America has been in talks with the New York Yankees about a major sponsorship deal for the new Yankee Stadium, though the company's name wouldn't be on the building. That deal appeared near complete in the fall, but neither side has discussed the matter since then. Larry DiRita, a Bank of America spokesman, declined to comment on the company's specific marketing arrangements. "These are normal banking relationships," he said, noting that they are profitable for the bank. Frayed Knot Feb 03 2009 07:11 AM Citigroup Inc. is considering the possibility of backing out of its $400 million naming-rights deal for the New York Mets' new stadium, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal. The report cited "people familiar with the matter." Ahh yes, the always popular "people familiar" source. What it sounds like is that Citi is feeling outside pressure and is at least looking into what it might take to break thinking that maybe this would stem the tide of criticism. Never mind that they still sponsor a host of other sports stuff, this deal seems to be the center of the bullseye right now. The team has every intention of continuing with the deal (of course, because they'd never get another nearly as large) and I'm thinking they'd probably put up a legal fight to keep it. oe: cross-post G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:18 AM If my thread on the WSJ story gets folded in or deleted, the essentials: ]Citigroup Inc., eager to quell the controversy over how lenders are using government bailout money, is exploring the possibility of backing out of a nearly $400 million marketing deal with the New York Mets, say people familiar with the matter. Officials at Citigroup have made no final decision about whether to try to void the 20-year agreement, which includes naming the Mets' new baseball stadium after the bank, say these people. In a statement Monday, Citigroup said that "no TARP capital will be used" for the stadium -- referring to government funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program. But as it revisits the pact, Citigroup is essentially acknowledging that the volatile political climate could make it untenable for the bank to proceed with the deal. Citigroup, which has had total net losses of $28.5 billion since 2007, received $45 billion in bailout aid from the federal TARP program last fall. The government also agreed to shoulder most losses on a $301 billion pool of Citigroup's loans and other assets. Next week, Citigroup Chief Executive Vikram Pandit and other bank CEOs are scheduled to appear before a House committee, where they are likely to be pressed for answers about their use of taxpayer-funded capital through TARP. ]Citigroup's contract with the Mets calls for the bank to pay the team roughly $20 million a year over two decades. The arrangement helped cover the costs of building Citi Field because it served as an asset the Mets could tout as they tried to lure private capital. While the Mets didn't receive direct taxpayer financing for the ballpark, the team did benefit from free land, infrastructure investments and tax-free bonds from the city government. Citigroup underwrote more than $600 million in bonds for the stadium. The bank's name and logo already adorn the stadium's walls. Citi Field is adjacent to Shea Stadium, the former home of the Mets, now being torn down. If Citigroup backs out of its agreement with the Mets, it likely wouldn't happen immediately and could involve the bank paying a breakup penalty to the Mets, people familiar with the situation said. metirish Feb 03 2009 07:24 AM I bet by the end of the day Wally will have a "Jackie Robinson Field" article up. Edgy DC Feb 03 2009 07:31 AM This just seems so counterproductive for everybody. It's nice to think that the Mets may end up with an un-sponsored field, but I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:36 AM ="Edgy DC":3tltbewg]I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay.[/quote:3tltbewg] The Mets could use some more crunch in their lineup. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:37 AM ="Edgy DC":i7xp23vg]I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay.[/quote:i7xp23vg] The Mets could use some more crunch in their lineup. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:40 AM ="metirish"]I bet by the end of the day Wally will have a "Jackie Robinson Field" article up. Wally, if they actually did that: ]Branch Rickey famously told Jackie Robinson not to fight back when harassed. The Mets similarly don't fight back when their opponents tar them not with epithets but runs. The Mets have unwittingly chosen the wrong role model. But when do the Mets ever use their wits? soupcan Feb 03 2009 07:41 AM ="Edgy DC":6bqs5c70]It's nice to think that the Mets may end up with an un-sponsored field, but I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay.[/quote:6bqs5c70] Most definitely. Its not like Enron Field is now Astro Stadium. I would like it if there does happen to be another sponsor that its a one-name company so I can pretend it's sort of un-sponsored. You know like Miller Park or Busch Stadium. If not, then I'd like Met Life please. Centerfield Feb 03 2009 07:43 AM Considering they have a signed contract, I don't see why the Mets would let Citi out of the deal until they had a more lucrative (or equally lucrative) deal in place. metirish Feb 03 2009 07:43 AM Jeff IIRC is quite fond of WISE potato chips. WISE FIELD metsmarathon Feb 03 2009 08:35 AM if citi backs out of that contract, i would think that the mets should sue them to recoup not only some of the short term income, but also the cost to replace all of the signage and merchandise. no fucking way citi should get off the hook just because the politicians whined MFS62 Feb 03 2009 08:46 AM Per Metsblog Update, 8:56 am: Michael Espo, a long-time and trusted reader of MetsBlog.com, just sent in the following e-mail: �Moments ago on CNBC, Doug Kass, a noted investor and short seller, who is a member of the country club where Bernie Madoff solicited many of his investors, said, �scuttlebutt around town says that Fred Wilpon and Mets ownership may be forced to sell a minority interest in the team due to their exposure to the Madoff fraud.�� Consider the source. EDIT: Hmmmm Now that is gone from that website. I wonder what happened. Later batmagadanleadoff Feb 03 2009 08:46 AM ="Edgy DC":dwhmitdm]This just seems so counterproductive for everybody. It's nice to think that the Mets may end up with an un-sponsored field, but I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay.[/quote:dwhmitdm] It's apropos. Wilpon's a cheeseball. Get ready for Cheesy Stadium. batmagadanleadoff Feb 03 2009 08:52 AM ="metsmarathon":2jggnqoz]if citi backs out of that contract, i would think that the mets should sue them to recoup not only some of the short term income, but also the cost to replace all of the signage and merchandise. no fucking way citi should get off the hook just because the politicians whined[/quote:2jggnqoz] If Citi doesn't have a contractual out, why wouldn't the Mets Sioux City to recoup every single penny of the deal? G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 08:56 AM Darren Rovell's story from CNBC: ]Despite all the noise, including a front page story in the Wall Street Journal today, the Mets just sent us this statement. "In conversations this morning, Citi reinforced that they will honor our legally binding agreement." MFS62 Feb 03 2009 08:59 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 03 2009 09:01 AM I'm thinking of taking up a collection to buy the naming rights. I'll name it "Cranepool Forum Field". If you're interested in contributing ($1 million minimum. No pikers, pease.) PM me, and I'll give you the number of my off shore account to which you can wire the money. Later metirish Feb 03 2009 08:59 AM ] "In conversations this morning, Citi reinforced that they will honor our legally binding agreement." Sounds like the Mets reinforced the legally binding thing. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 09:04 AM The Mets, I would guess, don't give a damn what it's called (within reason). They do give a damn they get paid (which is reasonable). batmagadanleadoff Feb 03 2009 09:54 AM ="G-Fafif":1gap197h]The Mets, I would guess, don't give a damn what it's called (within reason). They do give a damn they get paid (which is reasonable).[/quote:1gap197h] That's my Wilpon! metirish Feb 04 2009 10:26 AM Daniel Gross argues that the name should stay. http://www.slate.com/id/2210442/ ] Three Strikes and You're Bailed Out Why Citi shouldn't cancel its $400 million purchase of naming rights for the Mets new stadium. By Daniel Gross Posted Tuesday, Feb. 3, 2009, at 6:00 PM ET Almost every taxpayer who isn't a New York Mets fan is outraged by Citi's $400 million, 20-year deal for naming rights to the new Mets stadium, known as Citi Field. It's true that shelling out that kind of money at a time when taxpayers are bankrolling the company and backstopping hundreds of billions of dollars worth of its assets may seem tone-deaf and stupid, even for a bank. And, historically, naming rights have been a classic vanity move. Corporations tend to make grandiose civic/corporate statements right when they are about to implode. If you had shorted Citi's stock when it announced the sponsorship deal in November 2006, you would have made a lot of money. But there's a reasonable case to be made for preserving the deal, especially if Citi could get the Mets to extend the deal to 30 or 40 years. In order for Citi to weather the storm, recover, and pay back taxpayers (and insulate them from further losses), the company must invest for both the short- and long-term. For companies in highly competitive consumer markets, marketing and advertising are essential, entirely justifiable expenses. Companies�even companies getting bailed out by the feds�need to attract customers and to build their brand image. It's difficult to measure the value of any specific campaign or ad. But there's reason to think that for this company, at this stadium, in this location, a naming-rights deal might not be such a bad long term move. The cost is high�$400 million over 20 years. But the present-day cost isn't quite as high as you think, especially if, as Darren Rovell of CNBC suggests, it is paid out in annual installments. In 2029, $20 million will be worth a lot less than $20 million is today. And any type of advertising that reaches a lot of people is expensive. In this economy, NBC was able to charge $3 million for a 30-second spot during the Super Bowl. Though the audience size for Mets games won't approach that of the Super Bowl, the location of the stadium guarantees that the Citi logo will be visible to hundreds of millions of people each year. Citi Field is a giant billboard that will be visible not just to the 4 million-plus people who attend Mets games each year but to the tens of millions of people who drive past it on the Grand Central Parkway, the Van Wyck Expressway, and other roadways and the 25 million or so passengers who fly into and out of LaGuardia Airport each year. And stadium naming deals generate a huge amount of free advertising. On the broadcasts of the team's 81 home games (and, sponsors hope, post-season games), announcers will repeatedly refer to the company's name in a nonadvertising context: "Welcome back to Citi Field." Likewise, newspaper, Internet, and television coverage will produce hundreds of millions of impressions of the company's name per year. Naming-rights deals are most justifiable when the product or company doing the naming has an intuitive connection to the people who visit the stadium. The Montreal Canadiens used to play in the Molson Center, which made sense since hockey fans drink a lot of beer. Ditto for the Colorado Rockies, who play in Coors Field. (When Internet company PSInet planted its name on the Baltimore Ravens' stadium, it didn't make quite as much sense.) Citi would seem to be something of a natural for the New York Mets. It's a New York-based bank. The Mets are based in New York City. Baseball stadiums tend to attract a prosperous, heavily male clientele, including professionals, small-business owners, and corporate executives. Many companies use Mets games to entertain and schmooze prospective clients. In short, a lot of the sorts of people who are likely to utilize Citi's services will be attending games at Citi Field. Of course, people who read about games at Citi Field on ESPN.com won't be learning much about Citi's mortgage rates. But naming rights, especially if they endure, can perform another vital function for brands. It can help make them part of the vernacular. The greatest desire of any marketer is for her product's name to work its way into conversations. When I was growing up, it was common to say, "I want a Coke" when you were referring to any kind of soda. People ask for a Kleenex when they mean a tissue, say they're going to Xerox a document even if they're using a Ricoh copier, and speak of Googling when they refer to an Internet search. Stadium naming rights can help products and brands gain that sort of status. Since 1926, baseball fans on the north side of Chicago have spoken about going to games at Wrigley Field. Does that make fans more likely to buy Wrigley's gum products? It can't hurt. "Meet me at Citi," doesn't quite have the same ring as "Meet me at Shea." But after 20 or 30 years, it might. Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 10:29 AM Seriously, as a taxpayer, do you think Citi is going to recover faster by taking away their ability to market themselves professionally or humiliating them for attempting to do so? Nymr83 Feb 04 2009 10:34 AM ="Edgy DC":37gbfrv1]Seriously, as a taxpayer, do you think Citi is going to recover faster by taking away their ability to market themselves professionally or humiliating them for attempting to do so?[/quote:37gbfrv1] Nope. I also think there isn't a worse thing they can do right now than take their name off a stadium where it already is, thats not a great way to inspire confidence that your business is (now) sound and here to stay. Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 10:58 AM So, do you think that Dennis Kucinich, who bills himself as "America's Congressman" is maybe using this as a means of self-promotion? I understand being against these rescue plans, but imposing terms on the corporations after the fact is crap. Lookit me, I'm castrating Citibank and everybody hates them. Eh, shaddup. (off soapbox) Nymr83 Feb 04 2009 11:25 AM ="Edgy DC":c8pm0iyy]So, do you think that Dennis Kucinich, who bills himself as "America's Congressman" is maybe using this as a means of self-promotion?[/quote:c8pm0iyy] No, really? Frayed Knot Feb 04 2009 11:31 AM Kucinich was doing the same thing with the land valuation question of the area around YSIII -- basically acting as a self-appointed over-seer for what is essentially a local issue far from his particular locality. G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 12:22 PM ]...the location of the stadium guarantees that the Citi logo will be visible to hundreds of millions of people each year. Citi Field is a giant billboard that will be visible not just to the 4 million-plus people who attend Mets games each year but to the tens of millions of people who drive past it on the Grand Central Parkway, the Van Wyck Expressway, and other roadways and the 25 million or so passengers who fly into and out of LaGuardia Airport each year. I wouldn't mind Gross coming on for Delgado in the ninth for defense. He can really stretch. Citigroup could also buy a few actual billboards and accomplish much the same goal as the author describes. While I agree that this company, if it is to survive, has to (and is entitled to) market itself, reading Gross' article tells me that he has no idea why having the company's name on a ballpark accomplishes that. "Well, people will see it...people who might use their product." If anything, spelling out the reasons as he does, with the "I want a Coke" example and such, makes the whole thing sound more like a vanity-driven sham than I thought before. ]Many companies use Mets games to entertain and schmooze prospective clients. If they used the games from the last two late Septembers, those companies must have been recruiters from Guantanamo Bay. metsguyinmichigan Feb 04 2009 02:16 PM I don't mind the banks buying these things as much as the utilities. Why does a monopoly need to advertise? Especially since they just pass their costs on to the consumer, who has no choice but to use their electricity or natural gas? G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 02:26 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1nrfin6h]I don't mind the banks buying these things as much as the utilities. Why does a monopoly need to advertise? Especially since they just pass their costs on to the consumer, who has no choice but to use their electricity or natural gas?[/quote:1nrfin6h] To take up lots of space[/url:1nrfin6h], of course. metsmarathon Feb 04 2009 02:48 PM ]Citi Field, of course, will always be known as Citi Field. of course. G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 03:11 PM Should Citi Field never actually be Citi Field, it would be accessible via a number of appropriate thoroughfares, listed here[/url:qvhcvi31]. Benjamin Grimm Feb 04 2009 04:25 PM They should call it by Shea's original name: Flushing Meadows Stadium. Or since "stadium" is out of vogue, they can replace it with Park or Field. G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 05:00 PM More and more, Citi Field, its plainly visible structure notwithstanding, is beginning to remind me of this outstanding historical marker[/url:2p1f2s91] to which TMF introduced Mrs. Fafif and me recently. Citi Field...did it really land? G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 05:01 PM Whoops, impatient double post. themetfairy Feb 04 2009 05:22 PM LOL OlerudOwned Feb 04 2009 05:32 PM In a span of of two paragraphs, he called the naming rights "a classic vanity move" and an "essential, entirely justifiable expense." Kong76 Feb 04 2009 08:25 PM I'm kinda fickle on this subject now that it's become fodder for some folks. What's 20 million a year for twenty years when ya really boil it all down? dgwphotography Feb 05 2009 04:36 AM ="Kong76":2tla5kgq]I'm kinda fickle on this subject now that it's become fodder for some folks. What's 20 million a year for twenty years when ya really boil it all down?[/quote:2tla5kgq] Right now, it wouldn't even pay for Manny. 20 years from now, it wouldn't even pay for a utility infielder.. Edgy DC Feb 05 2009 05:50 AM ="OlerudOwned":1hwowprl]In a span of of two paragraphs, he called the naming rights "a classic vanity move" and an "essential, entirely justifiable expense."[/quote:1hwowprl] Well, he was distinguishing some deals from others. Vic Sage Feb 05 2009 10:34 AM ]But naming rights, especially if they endure, can perform another vital function for brands. It can help make them part of the vernacular. The greatest desire of any marketer is for her product's name to work its way into conversations. When I was growing up, it was common to say, "I want a Coke" when you were referring to any kind of soda. People ask for a Kleenex when they mean a tissue, say they're going to Xerox a document even if they're using a Ricoh copier, and speak of Googling when they refer to an Internet search. Stadium naming rights can help products and brands gain that sort of status. um... while those that control corporate brands want their brands to be ubiquitous, they do NOT want their trademarks to become generic. That's called "genericide", a sort of "public domain" status for trademarks, and thus costs the owner exclusive control over their mark. Of course, the naming of a stadium isn't likely to cause this phenomenon (oh look at that new Citi they're building in Montreal! I bet that'll bring baseball back!), so the point is not only incorrect, it's irrelevant. Now that's journalism! batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2009 09:56 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":2ibvgs3w] I'll probably refer to the new park as Shea Stadium.[/quote:2ibvgs3w] Making money off my idea. Drats. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 10:15 AM A good re-read. Here's Soupy with the Turning Point of the Thread: ="soupcan"]="Ashie62"] It seems like Citifield is a Brooklyn Dodger sandwich being shoved down Met pants. Oooh! A sandwich shoved into my pants!

The Mets sucked at dealing with their fans on tickets for the long term, but the equivalency -- they suck therefore they and Citi are essentially the same -- is what weighs Wally down. Ticket policy mishandling and naming rights hijinks are not the same issue and they're not necessarily symptomatic of a mindset, which is Matthews' implication. "The Mets waited two hours to call the game -- and they traded Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano: what a bunch of losers." That's what Matthews' column feels like. This is the wrong week to be promoting a stadium named Citi Field, that's for sure. The Mets will have to decide (if market forces don't do it for them) whether it will always be the wrong week for promoting a stadium with that name. The City Bank of New York was founded in 1812. Over the years, it became known as the First National City Bank of New York, First National City Bank and, eventually, Citibank, en route to becoming part of something called Citigroup. Might all remnants of that name be eradicated after 196 years? Could be. Might all the goodwill, whatever goodwill there was, associated with that name be gone in the wake of recent developments? Could be. Do we know the forever answer to either question? Not just yet. Citi looks very bad right now. This ballpark deal feels uncomfortable right now, to say the least. The Mets, by being in this naming venture with Citi, don't look good right now. Is "right now" what's always going to be? Hard to tell. I can't blame the Mets for trying to figure out how to maintain a deal that looked pretty lucrative and airtight (in the context of these things) two years ago. If the uproar continues as the season approaches, I imagine they won't want the name on their building. But even if, as a couple of business writers put it, $20 million a year for twenty years is a "drop in the bucket" to Citi (making this a worthwhile long-term investment in their view, assuming they stick around as Citi), it's pretty significant to a baseball team. Remember what Darren Rovell wrote on CNBC's site: they'd be lucky to get $12 million a year now from anybody. The Mets want the money. They'll always want the money. What entity in their spot wouldn't be looking for a way to get the money they signed for? If/when it becomes untenable (if the PR aspects of this do not blow over), the Mets will suddenly realize they don't want to play in Citi Field. Even if they do suck at ticket plans. Even if they wait too long to call rainouts. Even if they traded Kazmir for Zambrano. And this is coming from someone who has loathed almost everything about Citi Field, name included, from the day it was announced.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1ye8c93x]="Edgy DC":1ye8c93x]Prediction: Collazo gets claimed.[/quote:1ye8c93x] Seems he's already signed with the Marlins. I'll always remember how they spelled his name wrong on the back of his jersey. sniff. Goodbye, Willie.[/quote:1ye8c93x] Or Wiliie. Edgy DC Nov 26 2008 09:06 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 26 2008 09:53 AM Got to be the only mis-spelled name in Mets history (aside from missing tildes), although I certainly recall recent callups going out there nameless while their teammates all had names. I also remember some 1987-ish sap (Don Schulze?) pitching while the letters peelled off of his hastily fabricated jersey. seawolf17 Nov 26 2008 09:42 AM ="Edgy DC":3gqdk1tg]Got to be the only mis-spelled name in Mets history (aside from missing tildes), although I certainly recall recent callups going out there nameless while their teammates all had names. I also remember some 1987-ish sap (Don Schulze?) pitching while the letters peelled off of his hastily fabricated jersey.[/quote:3gqdk1tg] I distinctively remember Jason "Middlerbook" pitching in a game once, but that was before DVR and digital cameras, so I wasn't able to capture that the way I grabbed Willie "Colazzo." John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 26 2008 10:03 AM ]I distinctively remember Jason "Middlerbook" pitching in a game once, but that was before DVR and digital cameras, so I wasn't able to capture that the way I grabbed Willie "Colazzo." This mention excited me so much I looked it up on google only to find one entry -- yours -- from 1995 http://archives.cranepoolforum.net/500/f1_t535.shtml fuuuuc John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 26 2008 10:11 AM JMan 12 went and finished up that kwiz but got no credit duan Nov 26 2008 11:47 AM blast from the past. distant past.

="Edgy DC"]Tabloids demagogue. It's what they do. Is there any reason at all to buy a tabloid any more except that when you pass by the newstand on the way to the train, they are screaming out that evil/greedy/crazy people are undemining your life? Some do it better than others. I think Lupica does it brilliantly. I think Mushnick, though he listens a little too intently to the voices in his head at times, does it very well. I think Matthews is worse than a hack (which is most of what Newsday employs). He's a loose-cannon grudgemeister. It's not that the writing is lame. It's that the thought process is shoddy. All he has left is to spit out some outrageous assertions and feel good about himself. He is detestable, but in a different way from the hack army. Rieber, Baumbach, Powell...Newsday is hack central. It and Long Island, to borrow from Tom Kean, are perfect together.

Referring to full plans only here. They're not all owned by Citi types, at least they weren't at Shea. And not every entity known as a company in this world is Wally Matthews' prototypical Evil Inc. I'm not a corporate apologist by nature (far, far from it), but it doesn't help the discussion at large to brainlessly lump everybody who has a payroll to meet under one nefarious umbrella. It is amazing how out of their depth most sportswriters get when they wander into the parts of the world that are tangentially related to sports. And in Matthews' case, he's not so hot with sports.

]t is really the Mets, the "little brothers" in town, who are the most fan-hostile organization in New York sports. All last season, they used scare tactics on their partial-plan holders - people who weren't part of some corrupt and tax-sheltered corporation, people who couldn't afford to shell out for 81 games but could scrape together enough to come 15 times a year, or 20, or every weekend. I'm not in the frame of mind to go beat by beat with Wally Matthews, but why is it necessary to demagogue this issue when there are sound points to be made against the way the Mets do business as well as the generally distasteful modern naming of stadiums (and the way it backfires)? Matthews sits in the press box when he deigns to go to a game. He has no idea who buys the seats down below, season-ticketed or otherwise (it's either the evil corporation or the blue collar wretch, in Matthews' black and white world). It never occurs to him that some season tickets are scraped together by small businesses who are not riding the TARP train. Again, as with Rieber the other day, instead of maybe asking somebody or citing some study, he just indicts everybody with the same brush.

Orange foul poles, my heart be still. (Merged from More Citi Field photos, 11/25/2008)

Grandstanding Rep. Elijah Cummings is on top of the Met Zeitgeist more than he could possibly understand. ]One would think that the Mets would be open to finding a new sponsor, as well. Why would any team want its new stadium, the symbol of a new era of victories, to be named after and symbolized by a company claiming to be on the brink of collapse? A proposal on Huffington Post from Chris Weigant in response: ]And finally, there will be a brand-new federal tax on stadium naming rights. It will be at the rate of 100%. So if you pay $400 million to name the Mets' stadium after yourselves, then you now owe a further $400 million to the federal government. We'll even be reasonable about it, OK? The first four hundred million dollars you can write off as "advertising," just like in the past. But the $400 billion "naming tax" will come out of your profits, and is not deductible -- and is over and above what taxes you will pay on that profit. It's a separate tax, in other words. If this causes naming rights to become too expensive, then you know what? I bet nobody would mind if we went back to naming stadiums after soldiers, dead heroes, or veterans. They, it seems to me, have already "paid" for their naming rights.

Beautiful signage. May you and yours enjoy it.

One more for your evening reading, from Newsweek, on the need to strike a balance between effective cost-cutting and symbolic cost-cutting. ]Citi Field is also a tough one. In 2006, Citi signed a $400 million, 20-year deal to name the Mets' new stadium after the company. It's hard to walk away from signed contracts. And if Citi manages to stick around for the next 20 years, this could turn out to be a very good deal. The company's name will be mentioned millions of times in a range of media - online, television, radio, newspapers - over the next two decades.

The Mets may have poor timing on the final days of seasons, but they hit their marks (and dollars) perfectly in November 2006, according to Darren Rovell of CNBC. ]The New York Mets theme song for the 2009 season is "We built this Citi." The question is whether the Citi will stand. Questions about whether the humungous 20-year, $400 million naming rights deal that the bank agreed to two years ago for the new Mets stadium would stand up, began when the global financial crisis started. Then the 53,000 jobs cut at Citi, the second largest single job cuts in terms of volume in history. And last night, the government injecting $20 billion into Citigroup. Sure, the $20 million a year is a drop in the bucket, but the important point to make here is that the folks at Citi are at least behaving as if the Mets made this contract so locked up, that they couldn't get out of it no matter what the financial situation was. "You know, those (naming rights) decisions were made in a different time and a different place and we have a legal and binding agreement around that and so I never heard it discussed," Citi's CFO Gary Crittenden told Erin Burnett on our "Squawk on the Street" this morning. "I don't think it's an issue." As far as the Mets are concerned, good for them. No other company, in this environment, would give them $20 million a year. I don't even think they could get $12 million at this point, to be frank. As far as Citi is concerned, it's definitely going to be uncomfortable. Whether it's rational or not, they're going to hear people asking how many employees they could have had back for that $20 million annual investment. The right question to ask, and I don't know the answer to this is, what's a better investment for the company, the people you could have working for those dollars or the naming rights to the stadium? Things of course get doubly uncomfortable now that it's taxpayer dollars on the line. No one expects that AIG sponsorship of Manchester United to stick now that the government is involved. Sure, the AIG bailout is much bigger, but that doesn't take away from the fact that a high profile sports sponsorship doesn't seem as necessary as it once did. Doesn't sound like the Mets and Citi will be walking hand-in-hand as partners, does it? More like, "just try and get our hands out of your pockets." Blogger Phil Wahba at Reuters seconds Rovell's "drop in the bucket" line -- $400 mil over 20 years in the face of a bailout worth $326 billion ($20 bil in capital injection, $306 bil in losses assumed) -- and attempts to "follow the money": ]The government gives funds to Citigroup, who is now better able to make an annual payment to the Mets. Sounds a bit like a new taxpayer subsidy for the Mets, who are already receiving government subsidies for building their stadium. Probably an oversimplification, no matter what it sounds a bit like. But yeah, kind of.

Misleading headline aside, Star-Ledger story says the Mets are determined to get their money, whatever name it comes by. ]Citi Field name change a possibility, New York Mets say November 24, 2008 15:14 PM Citigroup is the latest financial institution in line for a federal buyout, but the Mets say their new stadium will still be named Citi Field, at least for the time being. According to an article on the Mets' web site: ]The naming-rights agreement between the Mets and Citi, said to be worth $400 million over 20 years, is not in jeopardy, the Mets say. But they understand a takeover is possible and that a name change probably would follow. As much as the club favors the current name -- it considers it far less corporate-sounding than most of the new names for stadiums and sports arenas, it is much more conscious of the revenue connected to it. And the deal is not an issue.

ABC News story finds financial institutions with their names on stadiums see no conflict between their sports marketing investments and whatever they're getting from me and you and an uncle named Sam. ]Citi, AIG Won't Drop Big Sports Sponsorships Critics Slam Bailed-Out Firms' Pricey Deals for Naming Rights, Logo Placement By JUSTIN ROOD November 24, 2008� AIG, Citibank and a number of other federally bailed-out financial institutions have no plans to cancel hundreds of millions of dollars in sports team sponsorships, even as they take billions in taxpayer support, ABC News has found. In boom times, the sponsorships were seen as a way to advertise the firms' "brands" and appeal to potential customers. Even today, at least one bank told ABC News that a naming deal was increasing its revenue. But critics, including a member of Congress, say the decision to continue them now is hard to defend. Struggling Citibank just sealed a multi-billion-dollar emergency "backstop" deal with the U.S. government. The financial behemoth, suffering with billions in bad mortgage-related assets on its books, recently shed 53,000 workers and saw its stock price lose over half its value. Yet it's in a 20-year contract to pay the New York Mets $400 million to name the team's new stadium "Citi Field." "This type of spending is indefensible and unacceptable to Citigroup's new partner and largest investor: the American taxpayer," said Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., in a statement Monday. Citi isn't alone: Imploding insurance giant AIG is paying the British soccer team Manchester United $125 million for the privilege of having its logo appear on Man U's uniforms. That, despite the fact the firm is standing largely thanks to a $150 billion lifeline from the U.S. Treasury. "A friend of mine joked they should put 'US Treasury' on the front of their uniforms," said Steve Ellis of Taxpayers for Common Sense, a Washington, D.C.-based nonpartisan watchdog group which is outraged by the expenditures. In boom times it was fine for AIG, Citi and others to spend millions on naming rights and other promotional arrangements with professional sports teams, critics say even if they're a waste of money, as some marketing experts believe. But when the economy teeters on the brink of collapse and firms are using American taxpayers' money to keep lending or just keep their doors open those critics are making a stink about the expensive deals. "Up until now they were businesses who could invest or waste their money as they see fit," said Taxpayers for Common Sense's Ellis. "But now we're the shareholders. And frittering their money away with naming rights and ties to sports teams isn't a really good investment of taxpayers' money -- particularly when credit markets are collapsed." AIG Responds to Manchester United Deal A spokesman for AIG confirmed that its sponsorship deal with Manchester United remains in place, but that the company is "reviewing all sponsorships to identify any relationship that might be essential, to maintain the value of the business and service customers, so we can repay the [government] loan." Citicorp is not reviewing its deal with the Mets, chief financial officer Gary Crittenden said in an interview Monday. Crittenden told CNBC the contract was "legal and binding" and "not an issue." Last week, a bank spokesman defended the arrangement, saying that "there is absolutely no relationship between our sports marketing expenses, including Citi Field," and the government funds it had already received. That's not enough for Rep. Cummings. "I strongly urge Citigroup to find a way out of this contract and instead spend that $400 million on retaining its employees and restoring confidence in its operations," he said. AIG and Citibank are just two examples TCS cites of institutions who are taking federal money with one hand, and paying hefty sums to sports sponsorships and naming deals with the other. Many are banks which are not perceived as financially faltering, who have taken money from the Treasury's Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP) to boost their anemic lending. Bank of America (TARP take: $25 billion) is reportedly poised to ink a $20 million-a-year sponsorship with the New York Yankees a team that is hardly hurting for cash. They are already in a reported 20-year, $140 million deal with the Carolina Panthers football team to call the team's arena "Bank of America Stadium." Bank of America spokesman Joseph Goode said his bank's deal with the Panthers is making the bank money. "Any investments we make in sponsorship marketing are directly linked to driving revenue growth for the bank," he said, noting the deal also allowed Bank of America to market debit cards with the Panthers logo. He would not comment on the reported pending deal with the Yankees. Even before the crisis, some marketers believed the naming and sponsor deals were idiotic. "It's pretty clear that it's a complete and utter waste of money, ego-driven," said Seth Godin, a marketing guru and bestselling author. Other Firms Take Public Support, Keep Sponsorship Deals It's time for banks to re-evaluate these deals, says Ellis. U.S. taxpayers ponied up billions to these to lend because they wouldn't do it with their own money, said Ellis. But now, "Just as Americans all over the country are having to decide, 'what am I going to do without?' companies are going to have to make those decisions," he said. "At the end of the day, they've got to look at the taxpayers and say, 'Yeah, we'll take your money and spend some of our assets on [naming] a stadium, or a college bowl,'" said Ellis. "That's a hard sell to the public, obviously." Who else is taking public support while holding pricey naming deals? It's not a short list. Among the biggest: PNC Bank ($7.7 billion in TARP funds pledged) is locked in a 20-year, $30 million deal to keep the home of the Pittsburgh Pirates named "PNC Park." A spokesman there said the bank did not use TARP funds to make payments on the deal. J.P. Morgan Chase ($25 billion from TARP) has a 30-year, $66 million contract for the Arizona Diamondbacks to call their stadium "Chase Field." "That was an agreement that was signed 11 years ago," by a bank that was bought by Chase, said bank spokesman Tom Kelley. "Tell me what 2008 has to do with 1997? That's a contractual obligation." Comerica ($2.3 billion in TARP funds pledged) has an identical deal with the Detroit Tigers to refer to their home field as "Comerica Park." Both expire in 2028. "From our perspective, they're not connected," said Comerica's Wayne Mielke of the stadium deal and the bank's anticipated receipt of bailout funds. "Why should it be reviewed?" The cost of the naming rights, said Mielke, "does not inhibit our ability to lend." Capital One famous for their tagline, "What's in your wallet?" and a recipient of $2.3 billion in TARP money are the proud and paying sponsor of the Capital One Bowl, formerly known as the Florida Citrus Bowl. The bank did not respond to requests for comment. Naming deals are "a big gamble," said Steve Hall, a marketing industry veteran who writes a popular advertising blog, AdRants.com. "My whole issue with the naming rights is, in a lot of cases it just sounds stupid. 'Staples Center'. . . It's sort of taken away the good old glory days of sports." That said, Hall noted that buying a stadium gets a company's name repeated an awful lot. "When a stadium gets named after a company, it gets mentioned millions of times," he said. Spend Money on Customer Service Not Naming Rights, Says Critic Instead of spending millions on naming rights, marketing guru Godin says, why not invest in something that will really improve the credibility and public opinion of banks: customer service. "Instead of spending $400 million to put your name on the side of a stadium, how about hiring enough people so that every time someone calls you on the phone it would be answered by someone who knew your name and was delighted to hear from you?" Despite the criticism from watchdogs like Taxpayers for Common Sense, given the current crisis Godin said banks would be right to follow through with these costly sponsorships. The economic collapse is being fueled by a lack of confidence in what tomorrow will bring, he said, and banks' changing their behavior would signal that fear is justified. "When banks walk around. . . wasting money on sports sponsorships," said Godin, "it sends a message of profligate spending and confidence."

You can make a reasoned, insightful, informative case for avoiding naming rights entanglements or at least entering them with great care. You can analyze such situations in light of recent events and strive for a fresh take on a well-worn topic. At best, you can introduce some ideas that might morph into solutions for all involved. Or you can be Anthony Rieber of Newsday and write your column while brushing your teeth. ]You might have missed the news because it came on Friday, but Citigroup announced it was not planning to back out of the naming rights deal for the Mets' new stadium, Citi Field. Watch out, reader. Anthony Rieber is about to inform you. ]That's the 20-year, $400-million naming rights deal. Lot of numbers. Must be more than the columnist can comprehend. ]From a company that: -- Earlier in the week announced it was going to let go of 52,000 workers by early next year. -- Saw its shares on the stock market lose more than half their value. -- May have to sell parts of the company or merge with another company. -- May require a massive government bailout to stay in business. Anybody wanna bet Anthony Rieber never read a financial story before whichever one he cribbed from so he could take a whack at the principals in this one? ]But that $20 million per year check to the Mets to keep the Citi Field sign up (yes, it's already up)? That check is in the mail, don't worry. And the Mets can count on $20 million more just like it each of the next 19 years. Ha! "It's already up." What a card. It's been up since August, as hundreds of thousands if not millions have seen for themselves. And there is a contract. It might very well have provisions for this sort of calamity. Or it might not. You could ask around. Or you could go for an easy laugh (and fail). ]Uh-huh. We've heard that one before. Heck, some of us have probably said it. Sure, we can afford that new sofa. The big flat-screen. The i-Phone. Don't worry ... we're a little cash-poor now, but we're good for it. This recession is hilarious. Companies are just like us. Equivalency is a graspable concept. ]Let's hope the Mets aren't banking their winter free-agent plans on getting that $20 million from Citigroup, or whatever the company will be called by April 13, when the new ballpark opens. They probably aren't. If I recall correctly, the $20 million per annum was framed as helping to pay down the debt on the ballpark. Again, a reporter might dig into the archives or ask somebody familiar with these sorts of deals if, in fact, neither the Mets nor Citigroup (which has higher priorities today, I'm guessin) is talking. ]Francisco Rodriguez or Brian Fuentes or whoever else the Mets have on their shopping list expect to be paid in cash, not IOUs. I'd say the Mets should be sweating the arrival of that money, but the Mets have to be smart enough to know the naming rights deal is never going to survive the full 20 years, or maybe the next 20 minutes. Lord knows the Mets have no source of income with which to meet payroll except for that naming rights fee. Was Johan Santana paid throughout 2008 with "IOUs"? And Mets: listen to Rieber. He's been giving this thought since his editor sent him an e-mail last night telling him to whip something up ASAP. ]Here's what the Citigroup spokesman told Reuters on Friday: "We remain committed to our relationship with the Mets. It's an important marketing priority for us." A bland, cautious statement in uncertain times hewing to a signed contract. Rieber probably presents this as a fair counterbalance to his sarcasm. ]Well, by all means, don't scrimp on that marketing budget. I mean, 52,000 people are going to get pink-slipped between now and Opening Day -- want to bet that spokesman has updated his own resume in the last week or so? -- but Citigroup remains committed to giving the Mets nearly a half a billion dollars to see its name in lights on a baseball stadium. Whoa, don't know how I misread the writer's intention. Maybe that spokesman should have issued a release alluding to the risky nature of the deal he was commenting on and come out against it, whatever his employer's instructions. As for "nearly half a billion dollars," that's a lot of money. Therefore, it must be outlandish and outrageous that Citi, two years ago, planned a long-term marketing budget. What do you want from these Johnny-come-lately high-tech startups anyway? Obviously the same person who came up with sponsoring Citi Field is the same person who screwed everything else up. ]Seriously, with decisions like that, it's not hard to see why Citigroup is in such trouble. You have to wonder if the whole naming-rights thing is just an ego trip for the company executives. Are you more likely to put your money in a Citibank account because your Mets' tickets say "Citi Field" on them? Attention reader: Anthony Rieber is being serious. And philosophical, since "you have to wonder" about the ego trip angle. Yes, that was probably it. There aren't enough places in the New York area where the Citi logo was plastered. By the way, was I more likely to read Newsday because they hired Gary Carter as their pitchman in the mid-'80s? Has Anthony Rieber ever done any actual investigation into how marketing plans are hatched, what's their upside, why so many companies go for naming rights? Since Citi didn't invent the concept last week, it might have served him well to have, again, asked somebody who had. ](Actually, that's a trick question. In the current economy, you don't have any money to put in the bank, and you can't afford tickets to Citi Field.) He's irrepressible! "You" are screwed. Anthony Rieber is on Your side. ]Or maybe naming rights deals really are good business. Maybe Citi Field will become a shining beacon of sports/business synergy, just like Enron Field and Bank One Ballpark and Pacific Bell Park and SBC Park and Ameriquest Field and Edison International Field and Network Associates Coliseum and McAfee Coliseum. Hey, did you guys know that sometimes these things DON'T work out? That companies change names and therefore the stadiums do, too? Rieber's got an exclusive. Doesn't mention that PNC Park, Citizens Bank Park, Great American Ball Park, Raymond James Stadium have remained intact for five or more years, nor bothered to find out if those sponsors are getting their money's worth, if the teams feel they are well served, if it's really made a difference, if it's likely that eventually they too will change their names. But I didn't know that about Enron. AR: Looking out for YOU. ]All of those are past names of current baseball stadiums. Some have been renamed more than once. Thanks for clearing that up, big guy. ]The naming rights deals either changed hands when the parent companies were sold or merged, or the deals were not renewed for one reason or another, or the deal went belly-up when the company when kaput and took all of its employees with it. And certainly every one of those companies experienced the same circumstances and Citi, in 2006, loomed as exactly that sort of textbook case study. ]That one was Enron Field in Houston, now Minute Maid Park. Good thing people still drink orange juice. Ho-ho! If Minute Maid has a product recall tomorrow, Anthony Rieber will have OJ on his face! And did you hear that the Enron alliance backfired on the Astros? ]We're not saying Citigroup is going to go the way of Enron, but wouldn't that $400 million help even a little? Maybe the Citigroup spokesman and some of the 52,000 can keep their jobs? What you mean "we," sports man? No doubt 52,000 jobs could be saved a lot of ways. Nobody wouldn't prefer every one of those people stay employed over the Mets' ballpark having the name Citi Field. Please explain how money committed against a baseball stadium in 2017 would automatically be dedicated to those jobs. Better yet, have somebody attempt to explain it. ]And do the Mets really need that $20 million? Maybe they'd make better decisions if they had less money to spend. They spent $19.9 million in 2008 on this: Moises Alou ($7.5 million), Luis Castillo ($6.2 million), Scott Schoenweis ($3.6 million), Aaron Heilman ($1.2 million), Marlon Anderson ($1 million) and Ambiorix Burgos ($400,000). Ha! The Mets are dolts! They pay bad and unproductive players lots of money! They are the only team in the majors to do that, FYI. Rieber prefers teams pay money to good players only. Somebody pass it on to Omar Minaya. ]The Yankees, who have turned their new stadium into an ATM even more than the Mets have, did not sell naming rights. It will be called Yankee Stadium. Good for them. New Yankee Stadium opens in 2009. Citi Field (or whatever it's called) opens in 2009. Yankee Stadium is more successful. Their fans will afford those pricey tickets. "You," as previously explained by Prof. Rieber, won't be able to deposit money in the bank or buy Mets tickets. Good for the Yankees! They do everything right, the Mets do everything wrong. ]Which got us to thinking ... sure, the Mets can probably get another company to pony up the dough if Citigroup backs out. Maybe by Opening Day they'll be playing in Taco Bell Field or Staples Stadium or Enzo's Pizza Park. After all this, something got Rieber & Co. ("us") to thinking? Watch out, reader! His thought is the Mets could be playing in a ballpark not named for Citi Field...that they'll be playing in one with preposterous names (though he might have ramped up from Staples to Taco Bell to Enzo's Pizza for maximum effect). Bet you didn't know Rieber had that trick up his sleeve. ]We've got the perfect name for the new ballpark, though. One that won't cost a dime and won't have to be changed with every hiccup in the corporate world. The Mets can't be trusted with $20 million anyhows, so we'll want something that "won't cost a dime," whoever's dime that might be. Rieber has a fresh solution, I can feel it. Wait, let me guess... ]Shea Stadium. Did NOT see that coming! Rieber you genius, it's steak and Lowenbrau for you.

I believe Raymond wore a Reds t-shirt in one scene. But Max Patkin wore a Mets jersey and Annie Savoy made reference to Dwight Gooden not doin' it with his socks on. Doin' it, of course, refers to pitchin'.

="metirish"]This article is in Newsday today. ] Citigroup sheds workers, keeps Mets deal Anthony Rieber 10:32 AM EST, November 24, 2008 You might have missed the news because it came on Friday, but Citigroup announced it was not planning to back out of the naming rights deal for the Mets' new stadium, Citi Field. That's the 20-year, $400-million naming rights deal. From a company that: -- Earlier in the week announced it was going to let go of 52,000 workers by early next year. Anthony Rieber Anthony Rieber Bio | E-mail | Recent columns Related links * Citi Field construction Citi Field construction Photos * Free agency forecast What do you expect from the Mets when free agency begins? A huge splash and a big name closer (K-Rod?) They'll make a trade and maybe one or two bullpen signings They'll make some additions to the bullpen, but not much else They'll try to go with cheap options and hope for the best -- Saw its shares on the stock market lose more than half their value. -- May have to sell parts of the company or merge with another company. -- May require a massive government bailout to stay in business. But that $20 million per year check to the Mets to keep the Citi Field sign up (yes, it's already up)? That check is in the mail, don't worry. And the Mets can count on $20 million more just like it each of the next 19 years. Uh-huh. We've heard that one before. Heck, some of us have probably said it. Sure, we can afford that new sofa. The big flat-screen. The i-Phone. Don't worry ... we're a little cash-poor now, but we're good for it. Let's hope the Mets aren't banking their winter free-agent plans on getting that $20 million from Citigroup, or whatever the company will be called by April 13, when the new ballpark opens. Francisco Rodriguez or Brian Fuentes or whoever else the Mets have on their shopping list expect to be paid in cash, not IOUs. I'd say the Mets should be sweating the arrival of that money, but the Mets have to be smart enough to know the naming rights deal is never going to survive the full 20 years, or maybe the next 20 minutes. Here's what the Citigroup spokesman told Reuters on Friday: "We remain committed to our relationship with the Mets. It's an important marketing priority for us." Well, by all means, don't scrimp on that marketing budget. I mean, 52,000 people are going to get pink-slipped between now and Opening Day -- want to bet that spokesman has updated his own resume in the last week or so? -- but Citigroup remains committed to giving the Mets nearly a half a billion dollars to see its name in lights on a baseball stadium. Seriously, with decisions like that, it's not hard to see why Citigroup is in such trouble. You have to wonder if the whole naming-rights thing is just an ego trip for the company executives. Are you more likely to put your money in a Citibank account because your Mets' tickets say "Citi Field" on them? (Actually, that's a trick question. In the current economy, you don't have any money to put in the bank, and you can't afford tickets to Citi Field.) Or maybe naming rights deals really are good business. Maybe Citi Field will become a shining beacon of sports/business synergy, just like Enron Field and Bank One Ballpark and Pacific Bell Park and SBC Park and Ameriquest Field and Edison International Field and Network Associates Coliseum and McAfee Coliseum. All of those are past names of current baseball stadiums. Some have been renamed more than once. The naming rights deals either changed hands when the parent companies were sold or merged, or the deals were not renewed for one reason or another, or the deal went belly-up when the company when kaput and took all of its employees with it. That one was Enron Field in Houston, now Minute Maid Park. Good thing people still drink orange juice. We're not saying Citigroup is going to go the way of Enron, but wouldn't that $400 million help even a little? Maybe the Citigroup spokesman and some of the 52,000 can keep their jobs? And do the Mets really need that $20 million? Maybe they'd make better decisions if they had less money to spend. They spent $19.9 million in 2008 on this: Moises Alou ($7.5 million), Luis Castillo ($6.2 million), Scott Schoenweis ($3.6 million), Aaron Heilman ($1.2 million), Marlon Anderson ($1 million) and Ambiorix Burgos ($400,000). The Yankees, who have turned their new stadium into an ATM even more than the Mets have, did not sell naming rights. It will be called Yankee Stadium. Good for them. Which got us to thinking ... sure, the Mets can probably get another company to pony up the dough if Citigroup backs out. Maybe by Opening Day they'll be playing in Taco Bell Field or Staples Stadium or Enzo's Pizza Park. We've got the perfect name for the new ballpark, though. One that won't cost a dime and won't have to be changed with every hiccup in the corporate world. Shea Stadium. Sports columnist equivalent of a weak-hitting utilityman snarks it up way out of his pay grade. Maybe they should rename the park after Anthony Rieber and the entire pathetic Newsday sports department. Call it The Tool Shed.

="Benjamin Grimm":2fnbp41m]Have you named him?[/quote:2fnbp41m] He goes by Brick, though he'll also answer to Thud, Clank and Hey You. Benjamin Grimm Nov 24 2008 12:38 PM Well, I made my Saturday trip to the MeiGray warehouse in Bridgewater, NJ and retrieved my Shea Stadium ramp sign. The warehouse is near exit 13 of I-287. When I got there my sign was ready for me but I did get a chance to see the inside of the warehouse. It was like a Museum of Shea, except that the exhibits were stacked on metal shelves. I saw one of the Mr. Met "Thanks for being part of the Shea Stadium experience" signs that I coveted but didn't want to spend $1500 for. I also saw some scattered SNY signs and the sign that hung over the Dugout Shop. There were also a lot of the V-shaped signs (I never thought of them as V-shaped until I saw them on the floor of the warehouse) that had hung over the tunnels leading from the interior of the stadium out to the seats. You know what I mean, the signs that would tell you what section the tunnels would lead to. I don't recall having seen those on the price list so I don't know what they were selling for. The one nearest where I was standing was for Mezzanine Section 19. Anyway, my sign is 23 inches tall by 64 inches wide and weighs 32 pounds. It doesn't explicitly say "Shea Stadium" on it anywhere, but for anyone who knows Shea it couldn't be from anywhere else. The part that says "Loge Level" is color-coded blue. It has a picture of the neon catcher from the outside of Shea and says "Gate B" and "Third Base" on each side. The sign is in pretty good condition. There are a couple of scratches on it and some paint drips. The paint is kind of a putty color. My guess is they were painting the wall or ceiling or ramp above where the sign was hanging and some paint dripped down. The sign also has a tiny little hologram sticker on it that has a unique code number. Apparently if I ever decide to sell the sign, the buyer could key in the number on MLB's web site and verify its authenticity. I think they're doing this with most collectibles these days, but other than yearbooks and stuff like that, I don't have much of a memorabilia collection. In fact, this sign is my total collection. I also have a little folder with a certificate of authenticity. I haven't photographed the sign yet, but once I do I'll post the pictures here. We're going to eventually hang it above our front staircase, but we'll have to figure out the best way to do that. For now it's leaning against a wall in our downstairs. I know there are some here who have a principaled objection to buying these pieces of Shea, but not me. I look at that sign and I love it. I just plain love it and I'm so glad I have it. It's truly unique. It could only have hung in a specific part of Shea Stadium. I wish I had known I was getting it when I was last at Shea in September. I would have gone to visit it with my kids, and we could have looked up at it in its original location and pictured it one day in our home. My daughter has already told me that she wants to get the sign after I die. I told her to marry a Mets fan so that her future husband can appreciate it too, and she said she'd try, but that she wouldn't marry a Yankee or Phillie fan. And that she'll move to New York if she has to do that to find a Mets fan. seawolf17 Nov 24 2008 12:40 PM Jealous. ="Benjamin Grimm":2ycs1iz9]My daughter has already told me that she wants to get the sign after I die. I told her to marry a Mets fan so that her future husband can appreciate it too, and she said she'd try, but that she wouldn't marry a Yankee or Phillie fan. And that she'll move to New York if she has to do that to find a Mets fan.[/quote:2ycs1iz9] Note to self: Arrange marriage between MiniWolf and MiniGrimm. Centerfield Nov 24 2008 12:45 PM ="seawolf17":260hgn7h]Jealous. ="Benjamin Grimm":260hgn7h]My daughter has already told me that she wants to get the sign after I die. I told her to marry a Mets fan so that her future husband can appreciate it too, and she said she'd try, but that she wouldn't marry a Yankee or Phillie fan. And that she'll move to New York if she has to do that to find a Mets fan.[/quote:260hgn7h] Note to self: Arrange marriage between MiniWolf and MiniGrimm.[/quote:260hgn7h] Damnit. I'm always a step slow. Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 07:05 AM Here are the photos. People tell me I look like Tim Allen's neighbor on Home Improvement. Edgy DC Nov 25 2008 07:12 AM Never realized that the neon characters on those signs are selected to coorespond with the gate you're being directed to. Good show. John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 25 2008 07:16 AM B for "catcher." Duh. Gate C was a baseball. metirish Nov 25 2008 07:19 AM Cool signs , are they really long or are you short? Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 07:21 AM The sign (it's just one; I'm showing both sides of it) is 64 inches. I'm 70 inches. (That's 5'10") soupcan Nov 25 2008 07:40 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":v68jv14a] [/quote:v68jv14a] What is 'R B4'? Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 07:43 AM My guess is that it has something to do with the positioning of the sign. R for Ramp. B for Gate B. And 4 as a sequential number. Maybe it was the fourth sign along the ramp leading to Gate B. Willets Point Nov 25 2008 07:43 AM I think that's the name for the ramp. Ramp {Gate}B #4. DocTee Nov 25 2008 07:53 AM Whish side will you display? Or will it hang suspended, to crash in the wind and drive your neighbors crazy? (Mebbe you can lend it to Soupy during a Nor'easter for an outdoor noisemaker) Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 08:01 AM ="DocTee":1jzhd02a]Whish side will you display? Or will it hang suspended, to crash in the wind and drive your neighbors crazy? (Mebbe you can lend it to Soupy during a Nor'easter for an outdoor noisemaker)[/quote:1jzhd02a] We're going to hang it above the stairs so that both sides can be seen. From the upstairs hallway you'll see a sign directing you down to Gate B. And from below, you'll be able to look up and see the "Loge Level." DocTee Nov 25 2008 08:13 AM Cool. We could never do that here in Earthquake country, lest it be turned into a guillotine. G-Fafif Nov 25 2008 10:05 AM Beautiful signage. May you and yours enjoy it. themetfairy Nov 25 2008 10:10 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":154pd8q2]="DocTee":154pd8q2]Whish side will you display? Or will it hang suspended, to crash in the wind and drive your neighbors crazy? (Mebbe you can lend it to Soupy during a Nor'easter for an outdoor noisemaker)[/quote:154pd8q2] We're going to hang it above the stairs so that both sides can be seen. From the upstairs hallway you'll see a sign directing you down to Gate B. And from below, you'll be able to look up and see the "Loge Level."[/quote:154pd8q2] Very cool soupcan Nov 25 2008 12:02 PM Your wife is actually going to allow you to hang that inside the house? Wow. She's a keeper. Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 12:06 PM Yes, I'm very fortunate! Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 03:08 PM My boss just sent me a photo that he found online of my Shea Stadium sign in its original location. I can't seem to upload it at the moment, but once I do I'll share it here. It's a great photo that really shows a lot of the interior of Shea. Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 03:34 PM And here it is:

="Benjamin Grimm":1t7i6thj]Am I the only one here who's purchased a piece of Shea Stadium so far?[/quote:1t7i6thj] My outfield brick and I are quite happy together, though I think he'd rather be part of a wall that's still in play. Benjamin Grimm Nov 19 2008 02:05 PM Have you named him? G-Fafif Nov 19 2008 04:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2fnbp41m]Have you named him?[/quote:2fnbp41m] He goes by Brick, though he'll also answer to Thud, Clank and Hey You. Benjamin Grimm Nov 24 2008 12:38 PM Well, I made my Saturday trip to the MeiGray warehouse in Bridgewater, NJ and retrieved my Shea Stadium ramp sign. The warehouse is near exit 13 of I-287. When I got there my sign was ready for me but I did get a chance to see the inside of the warehouse. It was like a Museum of Shea, except that the exhibits were stacked on metal shelves. I saw one of the Mr. Met "Thanks for being part of the Shea Stadium experience" signs that I coveted but didn't want to spend $1500 for. I also saw some scattered SNY signs and the sign that hung over the Dugout Shop. There were also a lot of the V-shaped signs (I never thought of them as V-shaped until I saw them on the floor of the warehouse) that had hung over the tunnels leading from the interior of the stadium out to the seats. You know what I mean, the signs that would tell you what section the tunnels would lead to. I don't recall having seen those on the price list so I don't know what they were selling for. The one nearest where I was standing was for Mezzanine Section 19. Anyway, my sign is 23 inches tall by 64 inches wide and weighs 32 pounds. It doesn't explicitly say "Shea Stadium" on it anywhere, but for anyone who knows Shea it couldn't be from anywhere else. The part that says "Loge Level" is color-coded blue. It has a picture of the neon catcher from the outside of Shea and says "Gate B" and "Third Base" on each side. The sign is in pretty good condition. There are a couple of scratches on it and some paint drips. The paint is kind of a putty color. My guess is they were painting the wall or ceiling or ramp above where the sign was hanging and some paint dripped down. The sign also has a tiny little hologram sticker on it that has a unique code number. Apparently if I ever decide to sell the sign, the buyer could key in the number on MLB's web site and verify its authenticity. I think they're doing this with most collectibles these days, but other than yearbooks and stuff like that, I don't have much of a memorabilia collection. In fact, this sign is my total collection. I also have a little folder with a certificate of authenticity. I haven't photographed the sign yet, but once I do I'll post the pictures here. We're going to eventually hang it above our front staircase, but we'll have to figure out the best way to do that. For now it's leaning against a wall in our downstairs. I know there are some here who have a principaled objection to buying these pieces of Shea, but not me. I look at that sign and I love it. I just plain love it and I'm so glad I have it. It's truly unique. It could only have hung in a specific part of Shea Stadium. I wish I had known I was getting it when I was last at Shea in September. I would have gone to visit it with my kids, and we could have looked up at it in its original location and pictured it one day in our home. My daughter has already told me that she wants to get the sign after I die. I told her to marry a Mets fan so that her future husband can appreciate it too, and she said she'd try, but that she wouldn't marry a Yankee or Phillie fan. And that she'll move to New York if she has to do that to find a Mets fan. seawolf17 Nov 24 2008 12:40 PM Jealous. ="Benjamin Grimm":2ycs1iz9]My daughter has already told me that she wants to get the sign after I die. I told her to marry a Mets fan so that her future husband can appreciate it too, and she said she'd try, but that she wouldn't marry a Yankee or Phillie fan. And that she'll move to New York if she has to do that to find a Mets fan.[/quote:2ycs1iz9] Note to self: Arrange marriage between MiniWolf and MiniGrimm. Centerfield Nov 24 2008 12:45 PM ="seawolf17":260hgn7h]Jealous. ="Benjamin Grimm":260hgn7h]My daughter has already told me that she wants to get the sign after I die. I told her to marry a Mets fan so that her future husband can appreciate it too, and she said she'd try, but that she wouldn't marry a Yankee or Phillie fan. And that she'll move to New York if she has to do that to find a Mets fan.[/quote:260hgn7h] Note to self: Arrange marriage between MiniWolf and MiniGrimm.[/quote:260hgn7h] Damnit. I'm always a step slow. Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 07:05 AM Here are the photos. People tell me I look like Tim Allen's neighbor on Home Improvement. Edgy DC Nov 25 2008 07:12 AM Never realized that the neon characters on those signs are selected to coorespond with the gate you're being directed to. Good show. John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 25 2008 07:16 AM B for "catcher." Duh. Gate C was a baseball. metirish Nov 25 2008 07:19 AM Cool signs , are they really long or are you short? Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 07:21 AM The sign (it's just one; I'm showing both sides of it) is 64 inches. I'm 70 inches. (That's 5'10") soupcan Nov 25 2008 07:40 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":v68jv14a] [/quote:v68jv14a] What is 'R B4'? Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 07:43 AM My guess is that it has something to do with the positioning of the sign. R for Ramp. B for Gate B. And 4 as a sequential number. Maybe it was the fourth sign along the ramp leading to Gate B. Willets Point Nov 25 2008 07:43 AM I think that's the name for the ramp. Ramp {Gate}B #4. DocTee Nov 25 2008 07:53 AM Whish side will you display? Or will it hang suspended, to crash in the wind and drive your neighbors crazy? (Mebbe you can lend it to Soupy during a Nor'easter for an outdoor noisemaker) Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 08:01 AM ="DocTee":1jzhd02a]Whish side will you display? Or will it hang suspended, to crash in the wind and drive your neighbors crazy? (Mebbe you can lend it to Soupy during a Nor'easter for an outdoor noisemaker)[/quote:1jzhd02a] We're going to hang it above the stairs so that both sides can be seen. From the upstairs hallway you'll see a sign directing you down to Gate B. And from below, you'll be able to look up and see the "Loge Level." DocTee Nov 25 2008 08:13 AM Cool. We could never do that here in Earthquake country, lest it be turned into a guillotine. G-Fafif Nov 25 2008 10:05 AM Beautiful signage. May you and yours enjoy it. themetfairy Nov 25 2008 10:10 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":154pd8q2]="DocTee":154pd8q2]Whish side will you display? Or will it hang suspended, to crash in the wind and drive your neighbors crazy? (Mebbe you can lend it to Soupy during a Nor'easter for an outdoor noisemaker)[/quote:154pd8q2] We're going to hang it above the stairs so that both sides can be seen. From the upstairs hallway you'll see a sign directing you down to Gate B. And from below, you'll be able to look up and see the "Loge Level."[/quote:154pd8q2] Very cool soupcan Nov 25 2008 12:02 PM Your wife is actually going to allow you to hang that inside the house? Wow. She's a keeper. Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 12:06 PM Yes, I'm very fortunate! Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 03:08 PM My boss just sent me a photo that he found online of my Shea Stadium sign in its original location. I can't seem to upload it at the moment, but once I do I'll share it here. It's a great photo that really shows a lot of the interior of Shea. Benjamin Grimm Nov 25 2008 03:34 PM And here it is:

Robinson Cancel sends m.e.t.b.o.t. a glass of 3-in-One.

I have to confess I barely remember the Mariano Rivera pool story and don't remember, at all, the conversation here about it. That said, fuck Mariano Rivera and fuck the Yankees. I mean, geez...

="metsguyinmichigan":1u1s036d]I'm glad he didn't start the All-Star Game.[/quote:1u1s036d] It didn't really count as a result.