G-Fafif

With the black NEW YORK retired, the black METS made its first road appearance since 1998, the only year post-1986 when the Mets didn't wear NEW YORK every road game. (Except for Tom Wilson and Jose Parra accidentally wearing the wrong ones at MFYS II in '04). They don't wear the Citi uni patch on the road. They wear the alternate Citi patch on the caps all the time.

="batmagadanleadoff":1zlf960a]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:1zlf960a] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98. soupcan Apr 22 2009 11:32 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":bz15gf10]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:bz15gf10] That's an excellent point. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 04:04 PM ="soupcan":2n1x70ze]="metsguyinmichigan":2n1x70ze]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:2n1x70ze] That's an excellent point.[/quote:2n1x70ze] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 04:09 PM ="soupcan":2tdnfklr]="Ashie62":2tdnfklr]If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management..[/quote:2tdnfklr][/quote:2tdnfklr] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. All men are created equal Met Hunter Apr 22 2009 07:08 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":60pwhhxj]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. [/quote:60pwhhxj] I'd be ok with a John McGraw tribute somewhere in the rotunda. Especially knowing that Mrs. McGraw, at the closing of the Polo Grounds, (a place the Mets actually played) after being asked how her husband would feel, said "He's rolling over in his grave". metsguyinmichigan Apr 22 2009 07:49 PM When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk. Swan Swan H Apr 22 2009 07:57 PM Xerox is a big sponsor this year. Get them on the blower and start working on some interactive stuff for the new HOF. Barter, boys, get this thing moving. Frayed Knot Apr 22 2009 07:59 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":3ix69awn]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:3ix69awn] We don't have room for that sort of stuff. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 08:15 PM Wouldn't adding NY Giants stuff on top of Dodger stuff on top of Mets stuff with more Mets stuff coming be too much stuff? If a woodchuck could chuck stuff. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 08:51 PM There's probably some space where the 2009 World Champions pennant was supposed to go. Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:40 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1nasyirq]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:1nasyirq] Isn't this the exact opposite of what people are decrying? soupcan Apr 23 2009 07:50 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="metsguyinmichigan":dzaavb83]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:dzaavb83] That's an excellent point.[/quote:dzaavb83] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue.[/quote:dzaavb83] Do people look at the 'W' on the Nats cap and think of the Senators (yes) or do they look at the red cap and think of the Expos (no)? The only people that know that the Mets orange and blue are from the Dodgers and Giants are the more-than-fair-weather Mets fans. The interlocking 'NY' is a much more identifiable symbol of the New York Giants than the blue (which is a different shade of blue) of the Dodgers. ="Ashie62":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="Ashie62":dzaavb83] If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management.. [/quote:dzaavb83] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. [/quote:dzaavb83] All men are created equal[/quote:dzaavb83] But some men are more equal than others. batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2009 08:55 AM ="G-Fafif":2nv25y2s]="batmagadanleadoff":2nv25y2s]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:2nv25y2s] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98.[/quote:2nv25y2s] Well ... like I said ... this thread is about the Mets ignoring their own history. soupcan Apr 23 2009 10:51 AM ] April 24, 2009 Some Fans Feel New Home Ignores the Old Mets By KEN BELSON Where have you gone, Tug McGraw? Apparently, to the windswept left-field entrance of Citi Field. The Mets have taken a lot heat from fans angry about the ticket prices and the obstructed views at Citi Field. A vocal minority of fans have also complained that the new $800 million ballpark does not do enough to honor the team�s history. �The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� Where, other fans complain, are the banners that used to hang inside Shea that could be seen from the escalators? (They were sold at auction.) What happened to the 1969 photo montage that adorned the outside of the right-field stands? (Gone like the stadium.) Where is the bronze statue of Mike Piazza hitting his famous home run in September 2001? (Not on the drawing board yet.) The Mets do nod to their past. On the left-field side of the stadium, there are a dozen or so black-and-white banners of Stengel and Hodges, Tom and Tug, Darryl and Dykstra and other Mets. They are classy photos, but seen by only a fraction of the fans since most people enter through the rotunda near the subway station. The four retired numbers hang on the left-field fence, and the team�s championship flags fly on poles in right field. The old home run apple sits near a picnic area in right field, and the skyline from the old scoreboard is above the Shake Shack. The 18,000 bricks on the Fan Walk are touching, and the Jackie Robinson Rotunda is a high-minded tribute, even if Robinson never played for the Mets. But some fans are irked by the team�s decision to model Citi Field after Ebbets Field. (The Dodgers left New York long before many of them were born.) A handful of other fans wish the Mets did more to honor the Giants and the Polo Grounds. The Mets are aware of these complaints, including the chatter on sports radio stations. But opening the stadium on time took precedence over adornments. �It was something we always intended, but it wasn�t given a priority,� said Dave Howard, the Mets� vice president for operations. Howard said the team was working to add more memorabilia, including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962. Banners like the ones outside the stadium could be hung on the concourses inside. The busts in the team�s hall of fame, which has not added a member since 2002, could be replaced by plaques with relief sculptures and descriptions. Life-size statues, like the ones at AT&T Park and Busch Stadium, are possible. These additions will take time, though, which means the Mets will have to endure more taunts from their fans. Howard is sanguine. �I�m never surprised and always encouraged by the passion of Met fans,� he said. �It�s great that people care this much and we listen to it.� John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 23 2009 10:56 AM I can almost see Howard reading his quotes in the paper and saying "I think they bought it." G-Fafif Apr 23 2009 01:20 PM It is great people care this much. I doubt they listen to it. Now to get the passion of the players to match the passion of the fans. seawolf17 Apr 23 2009 01:48 PM ="nytimes":wyzq4ko4]including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962[/quote:wyzq4ko4] Ooh, I'd be thrilled with that, considering I'm working on that Mets Topps run myself. SteveJRogers Apr 23 2009 04:12 PM ]�The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� I like this fellow's passion in terms of emailing The New York Times and all, but... Well for one, it was called "Banner Day." And second, even though I'm typing this on a fourm named in his honor, why is it that Kranepool, who barely started most of the time he was a Met, always gets spotlighted as the symbol of the franchise? Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 04:45 PM He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise. Kong76 Apr 23 2009 05:15 PM I caught up three pages, good thread. Nice job with The Spirit of Metsio. EDC: He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise <<< Jeets has 20/20 vision, the rest of the world is wearing bifocals. (loosely from some movie that I can't think of right now, Paul Newman?)

It has been noted that your Caesars Club (and other Plato's Retreats) inside CF have the dividers your other sections' men's rooms do not. Well, we're not alone (as you know if you're using one of those waterless wonders). Peter Abraham passes along the word that MFYS III selectively divides those who go at MFY games. ]How far does the class warfare extend in Yankee Stadium? All the way to the men�s room. According to the charmingly titled Fack Youk blog, there are dividers between the urinals in the field level bathrooms but not in the bathrooms elsewhere in the stadium. It�s astonishing that somebody had a meeting to decide this. But apparently they did. Elsewhere in we may have a strain of pretension in our upper demographic precincts, but we ain't seen nothin' compared to MFYS III, Paul Lukas visits MFY Steakouse here. ]Our steaks arrive -- a New York strip ($52.75) for Mike and a ribeye ($47.75) for me. Lisa, wearing the confident smile of someone who's studied for the test, places my plate in front of me and proudly says, "No. 15 -- Don Mattingly." I make a mental note never to bring Thurman Munson's widow to NYY Steak and turn my attention to my ribeye's Flinstones-sized bone, which could easily double as Hideki Matsui's bat. Impressive, although I'm disappointed that the bone isn't inscribed with "NYY" like the one shown on the Yankees' Web site. Surely they could genetically engineer the lettering right into the steers' rib bones, couldn't they?

="metsguyinmichigan":2ec4je5k]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. I think this thing with Gooden became a big deal because there are media types there who are just waiting to pounce and condemn the Mets. If Don Mattingly did the same thing at the Death Star, I suspect the coverage would have been different.[/quote:2ec4je5k] If this place had been designed to mimic the Polo Grounds, if there was a Stoneham Club, if a Christy Matthewson Plaza welcomed you -- and there was as little about the Mets informing the place and zero about the Dodgers -- it would be as creepy and misguided as the pervasive presence of the Ebbets fetish. The Mets deserved the pouncing and condemnation on Gooden for their reaction and overreaction. How they lacked the presence of mind to make lemonade out of lemons is indicative of the lack of imagination that made their default stadium an aping of someone else's. And if the MFYs treated Mattingly's hypothetical wall signature as the Mets initially did, they'd hear about it, too. Not an issue for the MFYs since they set up a museum with nearly 700 baseballs autographed by MFY players and personalities. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 10:44 AM ="G-Fafif":1pl4ukac]The seats are green because somebody liked the color, which is fine. Sometimes a green seat is just a green seat.[/quote:1pl4ukac] This is exactly what I thought the instant I skeptically read the Mets propaganda about how green was supposedly for the Polo Grounds. It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. Of course, the PG's were also home to our Mets and so there'd be some nose cutting face-spiting going on here, but this thread is all about the Mets ignoring their own heritage. (Not that I believe the MFY angle that I invented just for the sake of this post). Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 11:18 AM You know, if they don't cover Doc's signature with plexiglass, it's only a matter of time before someone adds another line to it: 87 DRUG SUSPENSION Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 11:20 AM See, that's why you can't quit your Mets jones. I won't allow it. Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 11:29 AM I'll try to hang in there, then. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 11:30 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":1zlf960a]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:1zlf960a] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98. soupcan Apr 22 2009 11:32 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":bz15gf10]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:bz15gf10] That's an excellent point. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 04:04 PM ="soupcan":2n1x70ze]="metsguyinmichigan":2n1x70ze]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:2n1x70ze] That's an excellent point.[/quote:2n1x70ze] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 04:09 PM ="soupcan":2tdnfklr]="Ashie62":2tdnfklr]If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management..[/quote:2tdnfklr][/quote:2tdnfklr] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. All men are created equal Met Hunter Apr 22 2009 07:08 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":60pwhhxj]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. [/quote:60pwhhxj] I'd be ok with a John McGraw tribute somewhere in the rotunda. Especially knowing that Mrs. McGraw, at the closing of the Polo Grounds, (a place the Mets actually played) after being asked how her husband would feel, said "He's rolling over in his grave". metsguyinmichigan Apr 22 2009 07:49 PM When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk. Swan Swan H Apr 22 2009 07:57 PM Xerox is a big sponsor this year. Get them on the blower and start working on some interactive stuff for the new HOF. Barter, boys, get this thing moving. Frayed Knot Apr 22 2009 07:59 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":3ix69awn]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:3ix69awn] We don't have room for that sort of stuff. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 08:15 PM Wouldn't adding NY Giants stuff on top of Dodger stuff on top of Mets stuff with more Mets stuff coming be too much stuff? If a woodchuck could chuck stuff. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 08:51 PM There's probably some space where the 2009 World Champions pennant was supposed to go. Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:40 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1nasyirq]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:1nasyirq] Isn't this the exact opposite of what people are decrying? soupcan Apr 23 2009 07:50 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="metsguyinmichigan":dzaavb83]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:dzaavb83] That's an excellent point.[/quote:dzaavb83] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue.[/quote:dzaavb83] Do people look at the 'W' on the Nats cap and think of the Senators (yes) or do they look at the red cap and think of the Expos (no)? The only people that know that the Mets orange and blue are from the Dodgers and Giants are the more-than-fair-weather Mets fans. The interlocking 'NY' is a much more identifiable symbol of the New York Giants than the blue (which is a different shade of blue) of the Dodgers. ="Ashie62":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="Ashie62":dzaavb83] If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management.. [/quote:dzaavb83] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. [/quote:dzaavb83] All men are created equal[/quote:dzaavb83] But some men are more equal than others. batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2009 08:55 AM ="G-Fafif":2nv25y2s]="batmagadanleadoff":2nv25y2s]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:2nv25y2s] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98.[/quote:2nv25y2s] Well ... like I said ... this thread is about the Mets ignoring their own history. soupcan Apr 23 2009 10:51 AM ] April 24, 2009 Some Fans Feel New Home Ignores the Old Mets By KEN BELSON Where have you gone, Tug McGraw? Apparently, to the windswept left-field entrance of Citi Field. The Mets have taken a lot heat from fans angry about the ticket prices and the obstructed views at Citi Field. A vocal minority of fans have also complained that the new $800 million ballpark does not do enough to honor the team�s history. �The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� Where, other fans complain, are the banners that used to hang inside Shea that could be seen from the escalators? (They were sold at auction.) What happened to the 1969 photo montage that adorned the outside of the right-field stands? (Gone like the stadium.) Where is the bronze statue of Mike Piazza hitting his famous home run in September 2001? (Not on the drawing board yet.) The Mets do nod to their past. On the left-field side of the stadium, there are a dozen or so black-and-white banners of Stengel and Hodges, Tom and Tug, Darryl and Dykstra and other Mets. They are classy photos, but seen by only a fraction of the fans since most people enter through the rotunda near the subway station. The four retired numbers hang on the left-field fence, and the team�s championship flags fly on poles in right field. The old home run apple sits near a picnic area in right field, and the skyline from the old scoreboard is above the Shake Shack. The 18,000 bricks on the Fan Walk are touching, and the Jackie Robinson Rotunda is a high-minded tribute, even if Robinson never played for the Mets. But some fans are irked by the team�s decision to model Citi Field after Ebbets Field. (The Dodgers left New York long before many of them were born.) A handful of other fans wish the Mets did more to honor the Giants and the Polo Grounds. The Mets are aware of these complaints, including the chatter on sports radio stations. But opening the stadium on time took precedence over adornments. �It was something we always intended, but it wasn�t given a priority,� said Dave Howard, the Mets� vice president for operations. Howard said the team was working to add more memorabilia, including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962. Banners like the ones outside the stadium could be hung on the concourses inside. The busts in the team�s hall of fame, which has not added a member since 2002, could be replaced by plaques with relief sculptures and descriptions. Life-size statues, like the ones at AT&T Park and Busch Stadium, are possible. These additions will take time, though, which means the Mets will have to endure more taunts from their fans. Howard is sanguine. �I�m never surprised and always encouraged by the passion of Met fans,� he said. �It�s great that people care this much and we listen to it.� John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 23 2009 10:56 AM I can almost see Howard reading his quotes in the paper and saying "I think they bought it." G-Fafif Apr 23 2009 01:20 PM It is great people care this much. I doubt they listen to it. Now to get the passion of the players to match the passion of the fans. seawolf17 Apr 23 2009 01:48 PM ="nytimes":wyzq4ko4]including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962[/quote:wyzq4ko4] Ooh, I'd be thrilled with that, considering I'm working on that Mets Topps run myself. SteveJRogers Apr 23 2009 04:12 PM ]�The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� I like this fellow's passion in terms of emailing The New York Times and all, but... Well for one, it was called "Banner Day." And second, even though I'm typing this on a fourm named in his honor, why is it that Kranepool, who barely started most of the time he was a Met, always gets spotlighted as the symbol of the franchise? Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 04:45 PM He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise. Kong76 Apr 23 2009 05:15 PM I caught up three pages, good thread. Nice job with The Spirit of Metsio. EDC: He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise <<< Jeets has 20/20 vision, the rest of the world is wearing bifocals. (loosely from some movie that I can't think of right now, Paul Newman?)

="Edgy DC":3hs8m27h]I'mnot sure how the green seats being there from Day One particularly undercuts the Mets' contention. Moreover, I think the conflating of the Dodgers/Giants thing with the lack-of-Mets-history thing is undermining the latter point.[/quote:3hs8m27h] The seats are green because somebody liked the color, which is fine. Sometimes a green seat is just a green seat. The exterior and rotunda at 120-01 Roosevelt Avenue exist as they do because they existed that way at 55 Sullivan Place. Agreed Dodgers/Giants ratio is not relevant, specifically, to the lack of Metsiana. It just accents how skewed the sense of heritage informing this park is. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 10:22 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":2ec4je5k]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. I think this thing with Gooden became a big deal because there are media types there who are just waiting to pounce and condemn the Mets. If Don Mattingly did the same thing at the Death Star, I suspect the coverage would have been different.[/quote:2ec4je5k] If this place had been designed to mimic the Polo Grounds, if there was a Stoneham Club, if a Christy Matthewson Plaza welcomed you -- and there was as little about the Mets informing the place and zero about the Dodgers -- it would be as creepy and misguided as the pervasive presence of the Ebbets fetish. The Mets deserved the pouncing and condemnation on Gooden for their reaction and overreaction. How they lacked the presence of mind to make lemonade out of lemons is indicative of the lack of imagination that made their default stadium an aping of someone else's. And if the MFYs treated Mattingly's hypothetical wall signature as the Mets initially did, they'd hear about it, too. Not an issue for the MFYs since they set up a museum with nearly 700 baseballs autographed by MFY players and personalities. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 10:44 AM ="G-Fafif":1pl4ukac]The seats are green because somebody liked the color, which is fine. Sometimes a green seat is just a green seat.[/quote:1pl4ukac] This is exactly what I thought the instant I skeptically read the Mets propaganda about how green was supposedly for the Polo Grounds. It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. Of course, the PG's were also home to our Mets and so there'd be some nose cutting face-spiting going on here, but this thread is all about the Mets ignoring their own heritage. (Not that I believe the MFY angle that I invented just for the sake of this post). Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 11:18 AM You know, if they don't cover Doc's signature with plexiglass, it's only a matter of time before someone adds another line to it: 87 DRUG SUSPENSION Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 11:20 AM See, that's why you can't quit your Mets jones. I won't allow it. Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 11:29 AM I'll try to hang in there, then. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 11:30 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":1zlf960a]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:1zlf960a] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98. soupcan Apr 22 2009 11:32 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":bz15gf10]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:bz15gf10] That's an excellent point. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 04:04 PM ="soupcan":2n1x70ze]="metsguyinmichigan":2n1x70ze]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:2n1x70ze] That's an excellent point.[/quote:2n1x70ze] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 04:09 PM ="soupcan":2tdnfklr]="Ashie62":2tdnfklr]If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management..[/quote:2tdnfklr][/quote:2tdnfklr] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. All men are created equal Met Hunter Apr 22 2009 07:08 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":60pwhhxj]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. [/quote:60pwhhxj] I'd be ok with a John McGraw tribute somewhere in the rotunda. Especially knowing that Mrs. McGraw, at the closing of the Polo Grounds, (a place the Mets actually played) after being asked how her husband would feel, said "He's rolling over in his grave". metsguyinmichigan Apr 22 2009 07:49 PM When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk. Swan Swan H Apr 22 2009 07:57 PM Xerox is a big sponsor this year. Get them on the blower and start working on some interactive stuff for the new HOF. Barter, boys, get this thing moving. Frayed Knot Apr 22 2009 07:59 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":3ix69awn]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:3ix69awn] We don't have room for that sort of stuff. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 08:15 PM Wouldn't adding NY Giants stuff on top of Dodger stuff on top of Mets stuff with more Mets stuff coming be too much stuff? If a woodchuck could chuck stuff. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 08:51 PM There's probably some space where the 2009 World Champions pennant was supposed to go. Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:40 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1nasyirq]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:1nasyirq] Isn't this the exact opposite of what people are decrying? soupcan Apr 23 2009 07:50 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="metsguyinmichigan":dzaavb83]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:dzaavb83] That's an excellent point.[/quote:dzaavb83] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue.[/quote:dzaavb83] Do people look at the 'W' on the Nats cap and think of the Senators (yes) or do they look at the red cap and think of the Expos (no)? The only people that know that the Mets orange and blue are from the Dodgers and Giants are the more-than-fair-weather Mets fans. The interlocking 'NY' is a much more identifiable symbol of the New York Giants than the blue (which is a different shade of blue) of the Dodgers. ="Ashie62":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="Ashie62":dzaavb83] If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management.. [/quote:dzaavb83] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. [/quote:dzaavb83] All men are created equal[/quote:dzaavb83] But some men are more equal than others. batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2009 08:55 AM ="G-Fafif":2nv25y2s]="batmagadanleadoff":2nv25y2s]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:2nv25y2s] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98.[/quote:2nv25y2s] Well ... like I said ... this thread is about the Mets ignoring their own history. soupcan Apr 23 2009 10:51 AM ] April 24, 2009 Some Fans Feel New Home Ignores the Old Mets By KEN BELSON Where have you gone, Tug McGraw? Apparently, to the windswept left-field entrance of Citi Field. The Mets have taken a lot heat from fans angry about the ticket prices and the obstructed views at Citi Field. A vocal minority of fans have also complained that the new $800 million ballpark does not do enough to honor the team�s history. �The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� Where, other fans complain, are the banners that used to hang inside Shea that could be seen from the escalators? (They were sold at auction.) What happened to the 1969 photo montage that adorned the outside of the right-field stands? (Gone like the stadium.) Where is the bronze statue of Mike Piazza hitting his famous home run in September 2001? (Not on the drawing board yet.) The Mets do nod to their past. On the left-field side of the stadium, there are a dozen or so black-and-white banners of Stengel and Hodges, Tom and Tug, Darryl and Dykstra and other Mets. They are classy photos, but seen by only a fraction of the fans since most people enter through the rotunda near the subway station. The four retired numbers hang on the left-field fence, and the team�s championship flags fly on poles in right field. The old home run apple sits near a picnic area in right field, and the skyline from the old scoreboard is above the Shake Shack. The 18,000 bricks on the Fan Walk are touching, and the Jackie Robinson Rotunda is a high-minded tribute, even if Robinson never played for the Mets. But some fans are irked by the team�s decision to model Citi Field after Ebbets Field. (The Dodgers left New York long before many of them were born.) A handful of other fans wish the Mets did more to honor the Giants and the Polo Grounds. The Mets are aware of these complaints, including the chatter on sports radio stations. But opening the stadium on time took precedence over adornments. �It was something we always intended, but it wasn�t given a priority,� said Dave Howard, the Mets� vice president for operations. Howard said the team was working to add more memorabilia, including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962. Banners like the ones outside the stadium could be hung on the concourses inside. The busts in the team�s hall of fame, which has not added a member since 2002, could be replaced by plaques with relief sculptures and descriptions. Life-size statues, like the ones at AT&T Park and Busch Stadium, are possible. These additions will take time, though, which means the Mets will have to endure more taunts from their fans. Howard is sanguine. �I�m never surprised and always encouraged by the passion of Met fans,� he said. �It�s great that people care this much and we listen to it.� John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 23 2009 10:56 AM I can almost see Howard reading his quotes in the paper and saying "I think they bought it." G-Fafif Apr 23 2009 01:20 PM It is great people care this much. I doubt they listen to it. Now to get the passion of the players to match the passion of the fans. seawolf17 Apr 23 2009 01:48 PM ="nytimes":wyzq4ko4]including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962[/quote:wyzq4ko4] Ooh, I'd be thrilled with that, considering I'm working on that Mets Topps run myself. SteveJRogers Apr 23 2009 04:12 PM ]�The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� I like this fellow's passion in terms of emailing The New York Times and all, but... Well for one, it was called "Banner Day." And second, even though I'm typing this on a fourm named in his honor, why is it that Kranepool, who barely started most of the time he was a Met, always gets spotlighted as the symbol of the franchise? Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 04:45 PM He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise. Kong76 Apr 23 2009 05:15 PM I caught up three pages, good thread. Nice job with The Spirit of Metsio. EDC: He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise <<< Jeets has 20/20 vision, the rest of the world is wearing bifocals. (loosely from some movie that I can't think of right now, Paul Newman?)

="HahnSolo":1ayohpol]I really wonder if the green seats were specifically done to mimic the Polo Grounds, or they just decided that dark green was the optimal seat color, and then someone figured out "hey, that's the same color as the PG." I believe the latter.[/quote:1ayohpol] Bingo. The green seats were in the plans from Day One and were never connected to the PG until relatively late in the game. The walls aren't any kind of explicit homage either from what I can tell. They're just black with orange numbers and, for my money, stupefyingly unattractive. There was supposed to be a "Coogan's Landing," in left field, but that got left on the drawing board. It was the only specific Polo Grounds reference planned. It sits in Press Release Park with the Orchard and the East Side, two other names mentioned early on that fell by the wayside. metsguyinmichigan Apr 22 2009 10:00 AM I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. I think this thing with Gooden became a big deal because there are media types there who are just waiting to pounce and condemn the Mets. If Don Mattingly did the same thing at the Death Star, I suspect the coverage would have been different. Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 10:06 AM I'mnot sure how the green seats being there from Day One particularly undercuts the Mets' contention. Moreover, I think the conflating of the Dodgers/Giants thing with the lack-of-Mets-history thing is undermining the latter point. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 10:14 AM ="Edgy DC":3hs8m27h]I'mnot sure how the green seats being there from Day One particularly undercuts the Mets' contention. Moreover, I think the conflating of the Dodgers/Giants thing with the lack-of-Mets-history thing is undermining the latter point.[/quote:3hs8m27h] The seats are green because somebody liked the color, which is fine. Sometimes a green seat is just a green seat. The exterior and rotunda at 120-01 Roosevelt Avenue exist as they do because they existed that way at 55 Sullivan Place. Agreed Dodgers/Giants ratio is not relevant, specifically, to the lack of Metsiana. It just accents how skewed the sense of heritage informing this park is. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 10:22 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":2ec4je5k]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. I think this thing with Gooden became a big deal because there are media types there who are just waiting to pounce and condemn the Mets. If Don Mattingly did the same thing at the Death Star, I suspect the coverage would have been different.[/quote:2ec4je5k] If this place had been designed to mimic the Polo Grounds, if there was a Stoneham Club, if a Christy Matthewson Plaza welcomed you -- and there was as little about the Mets informing the place and zero about the Dodgers -- it would be as creepy and misguided as the pervasive presence of the Ebbets fetish. The Mets deserved the pouncing and condemnation on Gooden for their reaction and overreaction. How they lacked the presence of mind to make lemonade out of lemons is indicative of the lack of imagination that made their default stadium an aping of someone else's. And if the MFYs treated Mattingly's hypothetical wall signature as the Mets initially did, they'd hear about it, too. Not an issue for the MFYs since they set up a museum with nearly 700 baseballs autographed by MFY players and personalities. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 10:44 AM ="G-Fafif":1pl4ukac]The seats are green because somebody liked the color, which is fine. Sometimes a green seat is just a green seat.[/quote:1pl4ukac] This is exactly what I thought the instant I skeptically read the Mets propaganda about how green was supposedly for the Polo Grounds. It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. Of course, the PG's were also home to our Mets and so there'd be some nose cutting face-spiting going on here, but this thread is all about the Mets ignoring their own heritage. (Not that I believe the MFY angle that I invented just for the sake of this post). Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 11:18 AM You know, if they don't cover Doc's signature with plexiglass, it's only a matter of time before someone adds another line to it: 87 DRUG SUSPENSION Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 11:20 AM See, that's why you can't quit your Mets jones. I won't allow it. Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 11:29 AM I'll try to hang in there, then. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 11:30 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":1zlf960a]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:1zlf960a] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98. soupcan Apr 22 2009 11:32 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":bz15gf10]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:bz15gf10] That's an excellent point. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 04:04 PM ="soupcan":2n1x70ze]="metsguyinmichigan":2n1x70ze]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:2n1x70ze] That's an excellent point.[/quote:2n1x70ze] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 04:09 PM ="soupcan":2tdnfklr]="Ashie62":2tdnfklr]If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management..[/quote:2tdnfklr][/quote:2tdnfklr] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. All men are created equal Met Hunter Apr 22 2009 07:08 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":60pwhhxj]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. [/quote:60pwhhxj] I'd be ok with a John McGraw tribute somewhere in the rotunda. Especially knowing that Mrs. McGraw, at the closing of the Polo Grounds, (a place the Mets actually played) after being asked how her husband would feel, said "He's rolling over in his grave". metsguyinmichigan Apr 22 2009 07:49 PM When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk. Swan Swan H Apr 22 2009 07:57 PM Xerox is a big sponsor this year. Get them on the blower and start working on some interactive stuff for the new HOF. Barter, boys, get this thing moving. Frayed Knot Apr 22 2009 07:59 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":3ix69awn]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:3ix69awn] We don't have room for that sort of stuff. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 08:15 PM Wouldn't adding NY Giants stuff on top of Dodger stuff on top of Mets stuff with more Mets stuff coming be too much stuff? If a woodchuck could chuck stuff. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 08:51 PM There's probably some space where the 2009 World Champions pennant was supposed to go. Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:40 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1nasyirq]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:1nasyirq] Isn't this the exact opposite of what people are decrying? soupcan Apr 23 2009 07:50 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="metsguyinmichigan":dzaavb83]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:dzaavb83] That's an excellent point.[/quote:dzaavb83] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue.[/quote:dzaavb83] Do people look at the 'W' on the Nats cap and think of the Senators (yes) or do they look at the red cap and think of the Expos (no)? The only people that know that the Mets orange and blue are from the Dodgers and Giants are the more-than-fair-weather Mets fans. The interlocking 'NY' is a much more identifiable symbol of the New York Giants than the blue (which is a different shade of blue) of the Dodgers. ="Ashie62":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="Ashie62":dzaavb83] If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management.. [/quote:dzaavb83] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. [/quote:dzaavb83] All men are created equal[/quote:dzaavb83] But some men are more equal than others. batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2009 08:55 AM ="G-Fafif":2nv25y2s]="batmagadanleadoff":2nv25y2s]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:2nv25y2s] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98.[/quote:2nv25y2s] Well ... like I said ... this thread is about the Mets ignoring their own history. soupcan Apr 23 2009 10:51 AM ] April 24, 2009 Some Fans Feel New Home Ignores the Old Mets By KEN BELSON Where have you gone, Tug McGraw? Apparently, to the windswept left-field entrance of Citi Field. The Mets have taken a lot heat from fans angry about the ticket prices and the obstructed views at Citi Field. A vocal minority of fans have also complained that the new $800 million ballpark does not do enough to honor the team�s history. �The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� Where, other fans complain, are the banners that used to hang inside Shea that could be seen from the escalators? (They were sold at auction.) What happened to the 1969 photo montage that adorned the outside of the right-field stands? (Gone like the stadium.) Where is the bronze statue of Mike Piazza hitting his famous home run in September 2001? (Not on the drawing board yet.) The Mets do nod to their past. On the left-field side of the stadium, there are a dozen or so black-and-white banners of Stengel and Hodges, Tom and Tug, Darryl and Dykstra and other Mets. They are classy photos, but seen by only a fraction of the fans since most people enter through the rotunda near the subway station. The four retired numbers hang on the left-field fence, and the team�s championship flags fly on poles in right field. The old home run apple sits near a picnic area in right field, and the skyline from the old scoreboard is above the Shake Shack. The 18,000 bricks on the Fan Walk are touching, and the Jackie Robinson Rotunda is a high-minded tribute, even if Robinson never played for the Mets. But some fans are irked by the team�s decision to model Citi Field after Ebbets Field. (The Dodgers left New York long before many of them were born.) A handful of other fans wish the Mets did more to honor the Giants and the Polo Grounds. The Mets are aware of these complaints, including the chatter on sports radio stations. But opening the stadium on time took precedence over adornments. �It was something we always intended, but it wasn�t given a priority,� said Dave Howard, the Mets� vice president for operations. Howard said the team was working to add more memorabilia, including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962. Banners like the ones outside the stadium could be hung on the concourses inside. The busts in the team�s hall of fame, which has not added a member since 2002, could be replaced by plaques with relief sculptures and descriptions. Life-size statues, like the ones at AT&T Park and Busch Stadium, are possible. These additions will take time, though, which means the Mets will have to endure more taunts from their fans. Howard is sanguine. �I�m never surprised and always encouraged by the passion of Met fans,� he said. �It�s great that people care this much and we listen to it.� John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 23 2009 10:56 AM I can almost see Howard reading his quotes in the paper and saying "I think they bought it." G-Fafif Apr 23 2009 01:20 PM It is great people care this much. I doubt they listen to it. Now to get the passion of the players to match the passion of the fans. seawolf17 Apr 23 2009 01:48 PM ="nytimes":wyzq4ko4]including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962[/quote:wyzq4ko4] Ooh, I'd be thrilled with that, considering I'm working on that Mets Topps run myself. SteveJRogers Apr 23 2009 04:12 PM ]�The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� I like this fellow's passion in terms of emailing The New York Times and all, but... Well for one, it was called "Banner Day." And second, even though I'm typing this on a fourm named in his honor, why is it that Kranepool, who barely started most of the time he was a Met, always gets spotlighted as the symbol of the franchise? Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 04:45 PM He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise. Kong76 Apr 23 2009 05:15 PM I caught up three pages, good thread. Nice job with The Spirit of Metsio. EDC: He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise <<< Jeets has 20/20 vision, the rest of the world is wearing bifocals. (loosely from some movie that I can't think of right now, Paul Newman?)

And those 80-pitch drills obviously didn't come with men in scoring position.

]Some of us, who have trouble letting go, hear St. Louis and think of 2006...and we taste bile... Some of us, who have immense trouble letting go, hear St. Louis and think of 1985 and 1987 and are still clearing space for our 2006 bile. Nah, that's not true. I have plenty of 2006 bile.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3udkh28j]...while Santana pitches for the Mets...their vaunted prospects turn out to be alcoholics and minor leaguers...[/quote:3udkh28j] Not at all disconnected. Think they wouldn't give up Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy at this very moment for Johan? Think they wouldn't wash their hands of Joba Chamberlain, the only setup man inducted into the Hall of Fame after a week in the bigs? We may overestimate our prospects, but we knew enough to not hold to four of them when Johan was available. Come to think of it, Alomar may have sucked, but we didn't let Alex Escobar stand in our way. (Mind you I won't let these examples get in the way of bitching at the next Met prospect who blossomed upon being traded, but JCL's MFY point stands: they suck.) Swan Swan H Apr 21 2009 04:31 PM When I saw this thread I immediately thought of the musical episode of Buffy. That's about as non-baseball as it gets. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Yankee bashing. A Boy Named Seo Apr 21 2009 04:35 PM ="Swan Swan H"]When I saw this thread I immediately thought of the musical episode of Buffy. That's about as non-baseball as it gets. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Yankee bashing. Love that episode. Bunnies, bunnies, it must be bunnies... RealityChuck Apr 21 2009 06:55 PM I wonder if they made the same mistake judging the wind that they did when they planned Candlestick Park. Fman99 Apr 21 2009 07:04 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":oa1lbg57]My theory is that the MFYs have been skidding into a slow-motion wreck for years. They've screwed up almost everything they've touched for two years now, and they're just gonna live with it while Santana pitches for the Mets, Torre manages the Dodgers, their association as the destination for steroid users grows, their new stadium becomes a national joke not only for its dimensions but its unsold seats, their vaunted prospects turn out to be alcoholics and minor leaguers, the old guard who won't let anyone forget 1998 gets older and more humorless all the time, their asskiss network loses all their best talent and are left only with sycophant loudmouths like Kay and clowns like Sterling, and a new generation of Steinbrenners prove every bit the pompous embarrassing blowhards as the last one.[/quote:oa1lbg57] Bullet of cool to you sir. I find your theory fascinating and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

You mean there's more to the Yankees sucking than the Yankees sucking?

Love the Player ID program. Great touch. The Ramones can go their own way. Or is that Fleetwood Mac?

I'm a little confused as to why Wally didn't use the occasion of Giambi's visit to blame the Mets for ruining the Yankees by being too cheap to sign him and thus preserve the integrity of the only dynasty New York had to rely on.

I would think the MFYs might want access to a high school field so Chien-Ming Wang could get a start in.

="duan"]As for the Mets HOF, well I'd be inclined to think 2012 might be just around the right time for them to do it properly and in a way that has meaning. It'd have a very nice ring to it and would be a good way of celebrating 50 years. First permanent exhibit... 2009-2011: The Generally Ignoring Our History Years

One of our commenters referred to the situation as "too much accidental schlong". No word on how much is considered a sufficient intentional amount.

FYI, dividers not missing in the Caesars Club men's room.

Doc a little verklempt, according to News ]Over signature scrub, Dwight Gooden wonders if Mets want him at Citi Field BY PETER BOTTE DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER Updated Monday, April 20th 2009, 4:18 PM Doc Gooden doesn't understand why the Mets are adamant about removing his signature from a wall inside one of the restaurants at their new stadium, and he wonders if the team doesn't want him to hang around Citi Field this season. The star-crossed former Mets ace acknowledged that he signed his name - with inscriptions depicting his status as the 1984 NL Rookie of the Year, the 1985 Cy Young Award winner and a 1986 World Series champion - on a blank wall near the bar inside the Ebbets Field club late last week. But the Mets, who have been criticized by fans and media for not paying much homage to the team's history inside their new stadium, have informed Gooden that they plan to remove his autograph by the time the team returns home on Friday. "One of the guys that worked there asked me to sign one of the walls, so I did it. It wasn't like I was walking around with a sharpie in my pocket," Gooden told the Daily News on Monday. "They asked me to sign the wall as a favor, as something for the fans to see. I was in there watching batting practice and they had fans taking pictures with me by my signature and I thought it was a fun idea. "I definitely didn't think it was going to turn out to be this big deal. I didn't do anything intentionally for the Mets to get upset. I was just doing it for the fans. I don't see what the big fuss is. Honestly, I don't." Still, multiple sources confirmed that several Mets higher-ups were not pleased by Gooden's artwork, which was covered up during Saturday's game. P.R. honcho Jay Horwitz said the organization doesn't want the signing to be repeated by Gooden or other former players elsewhere around the stadium. Gooden said that he agreed to sign another wall in the Modell's "Mo-Zone" on the right-field concourse, where he watched nephew Gary Sheffield play right field for the first time as a Met last Wednesday. "It's a brand new building, whether it's Doc or any other player, it wasn't meant to write all over the walls," Horwitz said. "We are going to do things to celebrate our history, but this wasn't the right way to get that started. If we allow this precedent, people will be writing all over the stadium." Owner Fred Wilpon indicated last week that plans are in the works for a Mets Hall of Fame exhibit to be constructed near the outfield food court in the near future. But like many fans, Gooden wondered why that wasn't considered a priority for Citi's opening last Monday. "They have every right to do what they want with their new stadium, but I don't understand it," Gooden said. "I think it's great that they're talking about it doing now, but I would've thought it would've been there already. "You'd think they'd want to connect to the '86 team as much as they can, and the '69 team, because those are the only times that they won (the World Series). Most stadiums you go to, even if they've never won anything, they have that. "So I would think you would have something in there to show the fans that you appreciate that history, and to show the former players, as well . . . I think the former players expect that. I think the fans want that. They want to share it with their kids. I know I want to share it with my kids, too." Gooden, 44, returned to Shea Stadium for last September's closing ceremony after being away for years since his Mets career was derailed by substance abuse. He isn't sure now how often he will be back. "Last year when I came to say goodbye to Shea, the ovation the fans gave me made me want to come around more, but when things like this happen, it makes me feel like maybe the Mets don't want me around," Gooden said. "Maybe I shouldn't be, I don't know." Gooden, who tossed a no-hitter with the Yankees in 1996, also attended the home opener of the new Yankee Stadium last Thursday in the Bronx, and marveled at "how much they embrace their history." "I wouldn't be upset if they took my (signature) down, but I was just doing it for the fans," said Gooden, who plans to open the Doc Gooden Baseball Academy in Blauvelt, N.Y., this fall. "Everyone was telling me how much the fans liked it and how they were taking pictures with it. But it's their stadium and they can do whatever they want, obviously."

Regarding Suit Hunt (as opposed to Ron Hunt), I think the sporting/realistic thing to do is to give them one more homestand before pressing for a spokesMet. A lot of what we'll hear early will be sloughed off as "work in progress," but after a month of hosting games and such, I think it will be fair to ask "what about this, this or that?" and "what kind of work and what kind of progress". Perhaps a thread, even this thread, could be devoted to the Ten Burning Questions we'd like to bandy about with the Suit to be Named Later.

METS PISS AWAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN PLAYOFF BERTH

Say, are those supposed to say NATIONALS? No, we're relocating the team to the NATIN's capital.

Surely there's a Mad magazine foldout in progress there.

="Edgy DC":2jx7ax11]And the media guide explicitly says, "Not a former mobster"?[/quote:2jx7ax11] It also says "doesn't suck as much as you think he does" under Luis Castillo's picture. Fman99 Apr 20 2009 02:37 PM ="Edgy DC":20z9ghcj]="Fman99":20z9ghcj]I think Horwitz would hand us all Dodgers hats and tell us to fuck off. And to not write on anything.[/quote:20z9ghcj] We can keep pounding out the Dodger cracks or we can be pro-active.[/quote:20z9ghcj] Proactivity is fine and all, Edgy, and as the torchbearer for this place I applaud your decision to try and engage someone with a pulse over there. But I reserve the right to make snarky comments and use profanity, at will, in every thread where it seems appropriate. Internet forums and anonymous cursing are like peas and carrots. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 02:40 PM Understood, but the Sandy Koufax comments have long since worn thin. And I think it's safe to say that it's vastly oversimplifying it to keep reducing the issues of the new stadium to Fred Wilpon's Dodgerlove. Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2009 02:40 PM There's nothing wrong with snarky comments, but the stuff about the Dodgers is beginning to seem like a dead horse. metsguyinmichigan Apr 20 2009 02:43 PM I've always found the Mets responsive to media questions. I interviewed Steve Phillips twice and Al Harizin once. I think a well-written letter will be answered. Keep in mind brevity is your friend. A five-page rant will get tossed, but measured concerns from a decades-long fan might be appreciated. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 20 2009 02:43 PM The Dodger thing misses the forest for the trees. Fred Wilpon could walk onto the pitchers mound and whizz on a Dodgers uniform and it wouldn't do a thing to address the lack of attention on the Mets at his park. Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2009 02:50 PM But it would get him the back page, most likely. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 02:51 PM METS PISS AWAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN PLAYOFF BERTH batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2009 02:53 PM The lack of Mets history at their new park is made all the more galling precisely because of the unreasonably excessive Dodger influence at Citi Field. These are not separate issues. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 03:05 PM Fine, every thread to you can be a setup for an unfunny Dodger crack. But if I start a thread soliciting input and that's all I get, I'm going to take the time to re-iterate that that's not really what I was looking for. batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2009 03:08 PM Did I make a Dodger crack in this thread? Because I don't think I did. I'm sticking to my previous comment. The issues aren't necessarily separate, cracks notwithstanding. HahnSolo Apr 20 2009 03:12 PM I actually talked to Newman last season. I complained in an email to mets.com about how poorly they were handling the Shea countdown. An hour later Newman called me back. (No he did not say, "Hello, Jerry..."). Seemed like a nice enough guy. Spouted the party line that "all the big names will be back, don't worry". As we found out later, the lie detector test determined that was a lie. But I think a nicely worded request will elicit a response. batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2009 03:17 PM Yes it will. It'll presumably get you a nicely worded response. But at the end of the day, and the end of the decade, and the end of next decade, there'll still be obstructed views at Citi Field. The stadium will look like Ebbets Field from the outside, and from the inside, the signature feature will be the JR Rotunda. metsmarathon Apr 20 2009 03:18 PM the dodgers thing would be minimized somewhat had there been a polo club to help offset the ebbets club. at least then the rotunda and the black walled field could be seen as somewhat in balance too, leaving jackie free to transcend the game. the absence of overt ny giants reverence makes the b'lyn dodgers reverence stand out so, and helps to focus attention on the dearth of mets history (whether or not they've planned all along to include it) but i don;t think you're going to get anywhere with the suits if you pound home the "there's too much dodgers shit" side of the equation, as opposed to focusing on what you really want - more mets shit. but so help me, if they start slapping blue and orange paint all over the stairwells, i'll kill the whole lot of yous. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 03:34 PM Regarding Suit Hunt (as opposed to Ron Hunt), I think the sporting/realistic thing to do is to give them one more homestand before pressing for a spokesMet. A lot of what we'll hear early will be sloughed off as "work in progress," but after a month of hosting games and such, I think it will be fair to ask "what about this, this or that?" and "what kind of work and what kind of progress". Perhaps a thread, even this thread, could be devoted to the Ten Burning Questions we'd like to bandy about with the Suit to be Named Later. Gwreck Apr 20 2009 03:44 PM I think a letter writing campaign is a great idea. In my opinion: Things that are worth writing about: 1. Obstructed view seats - railing/plexiglass blocking views for Promenade Reserved seats 2. Lack of Mets history/hall of fame 3. Tarps obscuring bullpens 4. New restrictions to batting practice access 5. Lack of urinal dividers in restrooms 6. Deceptive promotion of club access Things that are not worth writing about: 1. Jackie Robinson rotunda 2. Color of outfield walls Not sure: 1. Inability to see parts of the outfield from seats in the outfield. I haven't sat there. (I don't plan to, either). Also am unsure about how that could even be fixed. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 03:51 PM FYI, dividers not missing in the Caesars Club men's room. Gwreck Apr 20 2009 03:52 PM I know. But they are everywhere else. Seems strange that they couldn't be bothered to put them in. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 03:57 PM One of our commenters referred to the situation as "too much accidental schlong". No word on how much is considered a sufficient intentional amount. Swan Swan H Apr 20 2009 06:33 PM The location of the rolled-up tarp is also a potential problem. It almost comes to the foul line, when there seems to be room to slide it back - covering an advertising sign. If I were Reyes or Wright I wouldn't be happy about it. I also thought the sound of the PA would be better. There are speakers everywhere, so hopefully it just needs tweaking. For now it sounds like the speaker at a Taco Bell drive-thru. themetfairy Apr 20 2009 06:50 PM On the subject of the PA - it would have been nice to have been able to hear "New York State of Mind" on the ramp as we were exiting the stadium yesterday. The sound system should carry to the ramps and stairwells. metsmarathon Apr 20 2009 07:02 PM ="Swan Swan H":rt9ginvn]I also thought the sound of the PA would be better. There are speakers everywhere, so hopefully it just needs tweaking. For now it sounds like the speaker at a Taco Bell drive-thru.[/quote:rt9ginvn] im also a bit disappointed by the PA. i think they opted for something well suited to playing music in acoustically neutral outdoor spaces, (perhaps like a large garden or small park) but not for making announcements and being heard over crowd noise in very active, difficult outdoor spaces. they'd've been better off with a bunch of powerful horns and such rather than a series of smaller cone-based speakers throughout the place. plus, the ones i was below on saturday sounded buzzy already. metsguyinmichigan Apr 20 2009 07:45 PM Gwreck: Things that are worth writing about: 1. Obstructed view seats - railing/plexiglass blocking views for Promenade Reserved seats (I think you'd have a crack at this only if you are a season ticket holder who paid for those seats not realizing they were obstructed) 2. Lack of Mets history/hall of fame (agreed) 3. Tarps obscuring bullpens (This might be a safety issue mandated by the league. Would be nice to know, though.) 4. New restrictions to batting practice access (agreed) 5. Lack of urinal dividers in restrooms (Flaunt it, man! But seriously, these might be coming. If you were looking for stuff that you can add slowly during the season, this would be one. worth mentioning in a letter to make sure they're aware. Some of the older parks, but the way, have a common trough. Nasty old school stuff.) 6. Deceptive promotion of club access (Go get 'em!) Things that are not worth writing about: 1. Jackie Robinson rotunda 2. Color of outfield walls (Agreed.) Not sure: 1. Inability to see parts of the outfield from seats in the outfield. I haven't sat there. (I don't plan to, either). Also am unsure about how that could even be fixed. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 08:32 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":17anausm]Did I make a Dodger crack in this thread? Because I don't think I did.[/quote:17anausm] Somebody else did, and my objection seemed to prompt your entry into the conversation. I think the signature feature is Mets baseball games. Kong76 Apr 20 2009 09:12 PM Gw: Things that are worth writing about: 1. Obstructed view seats - railing/plexiglass blocking views for Promenade Reserved seats Watched about an inning yesterday in seats, spent the rest of the day all over wandering and had a ball. 2. Lack of Mets history/hall of fame I think they're getting the message about the HOF, I don't need too much history around the ballpark other than that. 5. Lack of urinal dividers in restrooms When ya gotta go, ya gotta go ... otherwise wait 'til ya really gotta go. I'm half kidding, I'd rather not hang it out in public and the urinal toilets are kinda funny looking with no dividers. 1. Inability to see parts of the outfield from seats in the outfield. I haven't sat there. (I don't plan to, either). Also am unsure about how that could even be fixed. Yeah, that's obstructed too way down the lines. My early opinion is the trade-off of being able to wander around and watch the game from anywhere I want to thus far is worth having a plan ticket that I can probably renew year after year that (for now) that is relatively cheap. Fman99 Apr 21 2009 06:09 AM ="Gwreck":n13tm8f6]I think a letter writing campaign is a great idea. In my opinion: Things that are worth writing about: 1. Obstructed view seats - railing/plexiglass blocking views for Promenade Reserved seats 2. Lack of Mets history/hall of fame 3. Tarps obscuring bullpens 4. New restrictions to batting practice access 5. Lack of urinal dividers in restrooms 6. Deceptive promotion of club access Things that are not worth writing about: 1. Jackie Robinson rotunda 2. Color of outfield walls Not sure: 1. Inability to see parts of the outfield from seats in the outfield. I haven't sat there. (I don't plan to, either). Also am unsure about how that could even be fixed.[/quote:n13tm8f6] OK, I am the "keeps bringing up the Dodgers thing" guy. Fine. It sticks in my craw and that's that. So, why is the Jackie Robinson rotunda not worth mentioning to Mets brass? Is it because it's already a done deal? Because I think there are a fair amount of Mets fans, both here in the CPF and in general, who think that kind of tribute would best be served at Chavez Ravine and not in Flushing. I know, I know. It's been discussed to death. But it's also symbolic of some of the other complaints. It speaks to the current ownership's own inability to honor OUR team's history at the expense of other teams and players. No blue and/or orange seats? C'mon. There should be a big statue of Tom Seaver, not a big blue 42. And so on. Benjamin Grimm Apr 21 2009 07:15 AM I guess there really are two different ways of looking at this. To me, a Jackie Robinson memorial in Los Angeles wouldn't make a drop of sense. (As I said elsewhere, it would be like memorializing Connie Mack in Oakland instead of Philadelphia, or Walter Johnson in Minneapolis instead of Washington.) But on the other hand, I don't think a big rotunda in the Mets home ballpark is necessary either. A better place would have been in Keyspan Park or near the site of Ebbets Field (the real one) or near the Brooklyn anchorage of the Brooklyn Bridge. Did you catch what Rachel Robinson said when she was in the Mets broadcast booth? She was so pleased that the photos of Jackie were displayed in tile, making them permanent. She said it's nice to know that they'll be there forever. And then she added, "At least I hope so." She probably realizes that it's likely that her grandchildren, if not her children, will live to see the place torn down, with each individual tile being auctioned off. Edgy DC Apr 21 2009 07:29 AM I really don't want to have the "We're honoring a Dodger" argument in dozens of threads. duan Apr 21 2009 09:08 AM obviously I haven't seen it so I'm not a great witness. However, I have NO problem whatsoever in them having a special place for one of New York's most important ever sportsmen. It's clear that Jackie Robinson is something that baseball justifiably feels had an impact on the evolution of civil rights and of equality within your country. I can't see why honouring that is seen as anything but a pleasure. As for the Mets HOF, well I'd be inclined to think 2012 might be just around the right time for them to do it properly and in a way that has meaning. It'd have a very nice ring to it and would be a good way of celebrating 50 years. G-Fafif Apr 21 2009 09:40 AM Re: obviously I haven't seen it ="duan"]As for the Mets HOF, well I'd be inclined to think 2012 might be just around the right time for them to do it properly and in a way that has meaning. It'd have a very nice ring to it and would be a good way of celebrating 50 years. First permanent exhibit... 2009-2011: The Generally Ignoring Our History Years batmagadanleadoff Apr 21 2009 09:58 AM Re: obviously I haven't seen it ="duan":3eomplwq] As for the Mets HOF, well I'd be inclined to think 2012 might be just around the right time for them to do it properly and in a way that has meaning. It'd have a very nice ring to it and would be a good way of celebrating 50 years.[/quote:3eomplwq] Why not wait a hundred years -- to 2062? Because Diamonds are better than Gold. HahnSolo Apr 21 2009 10:24 AM Re: obviously I haven't seen it ="duan":1fn2ahcc]As for the Mets HOF, well I'd be inclined to think 2012 might be just around the right time for them to do it properly and in a way that has meaning. It'd have a very nice ring to it and would be a good way of celebrating 50 years.[/quote:1fn2ahcc] I'd think that the opening of a brand-new baseball only park for the team would be the right time to do it. duan Apr 21 2009 10:52 AM yeah but it didn't happen. Look, they're keeping Gooden's signature, they've gone on the record as acknowledging that people want more "METS" stuff, but to me this just seems like a crazy quest to beat people up over decisions that were made with decent intentions. Gwreck Apr 21 2009 11:09 AM I think we're getting off topic. I put the Rotunda in the "not worth writing about" from a purely pragmatic perspective. I doubt anyone really thinks they're going to change it. Ashie62 Apr 21 2009 02:52 PM How about a bust of Johnny Roseboro & Juan Marichal going at it..That would honor 2 post NY teams Personally..I'd like to see a bust of Bud Harrelson scruffling with Charlie Bustle

Also, I have a copy of the media guide.

="Edgy DC":1bcgsmqc]Yowza, a search for "Craig Marino" and "Mets" lands this old tidbit: http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/08/nyregion/grandson-of-a-dodger-faces-charges-in-a-death.html?n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FSubjects%2FA%2FAccidents%20and%20Safety Maybe he got the job in exchange for not putting a revenge hit on Gil.[/quote:1bcgsmqc] Not the same guy, I can safely say. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 02:29 PM That''s because you're a big shot. Can you get us an inteview with a wig? G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 02:30 PM Also, I have a copy of the media guide. Fman99 Apr 20 2009 02:32 PM I think Horwitz would hand us all Dodgers hats and tell us to fuck off. And to not write on anything. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 02:32 PM And the media guide explicitly says, "Not a former mobster"? Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 02:33 PM ="Fman99":2geyk0vg]I think Horwitz would hand us all Dodgers hats and tell us to fuck off. And to not write on anything.[/quote:2geyk0vg] We can keep pounding out the Dodger cracks or we can be pro-active. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 02:35 PM ="Edgy DC":2jx7ax11]And the media guide explicitly says, "Not a former mobster"?[/quote:2jx7ax11] It also says "doesn't suck as much as you think he does" under Luis Castillo's picture. Fman99 Apr 20 2009 02:37 PM ="Edgy DC":20z9ghcj]="Fman99":20z9ghcj]I think Horwitz would hand us all Dodgers hats and tell us to fuck off. And to not write on anything.[/quote:20z9ghcj] We can keep pounding out the Dodger cracks or we can be pro-active.[/quote:20z9ghcj] Proactivity is fine and all, Edgy, and as the torchbearer for this place I applaud your decision to try and engage someone with a pulse over there. But I reserve the right to make snarky comments and use profanity, at will, in every thread where it seems appropriate. Internet forums and anonymous cursing are like peas and carrots. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 02:40 PM Understood, but the Sandy Koufax comments have long since worn thin. And I think it's safe to say that it's vastly oversimplifying it to keep reducing the issues of the new stadium to Fred Wilpon's Dodgerlove. Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2009 02:40 PM There's nothing wrong with snarky comments, but the stuff about the Dodgers is beginning to seem like a dead horse. metsguyinmichigan Apr 20 2009 02:43 PM I've always found the Mets responsive to media questions. I interviewed Steve Phillips twice and Al Harizin once. I think a well-written letter will be answered. Keep in mind brevity is your friend. A five-page rant will get tossed, but measured concerns from a decades-long fan might be appreciated. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 20 2009 02:43 PM The Dodger thing misses the forest for the trees. Fred Wilpon could walk onto the pitchers mound and whizz on a Dodgers uniform and it wouldn't do a thing to address the lack of attention on the Mets at his park. Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2009 02:50 PM But it would get him the back page, most likely. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 02:51 PM METS PISS AWAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN PLAYOFF BERTH batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2009 02:53 PM The lack of Mets history at their new park is made all the more galling precisely because of the unreasonably excessive Dodger influence at Citi Field. These are not separate issues. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 03:05 PM Fine, every thread to you can be a setup for an unfunny Dodger crack. But if I start a thread soliciting input and that's all I get, I'm going to take the time to re-iterate that that's not really what I was looking for. batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2009 03:08 PM Did I make a Dodger crack in this thread? Because I don't think I did. I'm sticking to my previous comment. The issues aren't necessarily separate, cracks notwithstanding. HahnSolo Apr 20 2009 03:12 PM I actually talked to Newman last season. I complained in an email to mets.com about how poorly they were handling the Shea countdown. An hour later Newman called me back. (No he did not say, "Hello, Jerry..."). Seemed like a nice enough guy. Spouted the party line that "all the big names will be back, don't worry". As we found out later, the lie detector test determined that was a lie. But I think a nicely worded request will elicit a response. batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2009 03:17 PM Yes it will. It'll presumably get you a nicely worded response. But at the end of the day, and the end of the decade, and the end of next decade, there'll still be obstructed views at Citi Field. The stadium will look like Ebbets Field from the outside, and from the inside, the signature feature will be the JR Rotunda. metsmarathon Apr 20 2009 03:18 PM the dodgers thing would be minimized somewhat had there been a polo club to help offset the ebbets club. at least then the rotunda and the black walled field could be seen as somewhat in balance too, leaving jackie free to transcend the game. the absence of overt ny giants reverence makes the b'lyn dodgers reverence stand out so, and helps to focus attention on the dearth of mets history (whether or not they've planned all along to include it) but i don;t think you're going to get anywhere with the suits if you pound home the "there's too much dodgers shit" side of the equation, as opposed to focusing on what you really want - more mets shit. but so help me, if they start slapping blue and orange paint all over the stairwells, i'll kill the whole lot of yous. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 03:34 PM Regarding Suit Hunt (as opposed to Ron Hunt), I think the sporting/realistic thing to do is to give them one more homestand before pressing for a spokesMet. A lot of what we'll hear early will be sloughed off as "work in progress," but after a month of hosting games and such, I think it will be fair to ask "what about this, this or that?" and "what kind of work and what kind of progress". Perhaps a thread, even this thread, could be devoted to the Ten Burning Questions we'd like to bandy about with the Suit to be Named Later. Gwreck Apr 20 2009 03:44 PM I think a letter writing campaign is a great idea. In my opinion: Things that are worth writing about: 1. Obstructed view seats - railing/plexiglass blocking views for Promenade Reserved seats 2. Lack of Mets history/hall of fame 3. Tarps obscuring bullpens 4. New restrictions to batting practice access 5. Lack of urinal dividers in restrooms 6. Deceptive promotion of club access Things that are not worth writing about: 1. Jackie Robinson rotunda 2. Color of outfield walls Not sure: 1. Inability to see parts of the outfield from seats in the outfield. I haven't sat there. (I don't plan to, either). Also am unsure about how that could even be fixed. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 03:51 PM FYI, dividers not missing in the Caesars Club men's room. Gwreck Apr 20 2009 03:52 PM I know. But they are everywhere else. Seems strange that they couldn't be bothered to put them in. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 03:57 PM One of our commenters referred to the situation as "too much accidental schlong". No word on how much is considered a sufficient intentional amount. Swan Swan H Apr 20 2009 06:33 PM The location of the rolled-up tarp is also a potential problem. It almost comes to the foul line, when there seems to be room to slide it back - covering an advertising sign. If I were Reyes or Wright I wouldn't be happy about it. I also thought the sound of the PA would be better. There are speakers everywhere, so hopefully it just needs tweaking. For now it sounds like the speaker at a Taco Bell drive-thru. themetfairy Apr 20 2009 06:50 PM On the subject of the PA - it would have been nice to have been able to hear "New York State of Mind" on the ramp as we were exiting the stadium yesterday. The sound system should carry to the ramps and stairwells. metsmarathon Apr 20 2009 07:02 PM ="Swan Swan H":rt9ginvn]I also thought the sound of the PA would be better. There are speakers everywhere, so hopefully it just needs tweaking. For now it sounds like the speaker at a Taco Bell drive-thru.[/quote:rt9ginvn] im also a bit disappointed by the PA. i think they opted for something well suited to playing music in acoustically neutral outdoor spaces, (perhaps like a large garden or small park) but not for making announcements and being heard over crowd noise in very active, difficult outdoor spaces. they'd've been better off with a bunch of powerful horns and such rather than a series of smaller cone-based speakers throughout the place. plus, the ones i was below on saturday sounded buzzy already. metsguyinmichigan Apr 20 2009 07:45 PM Gwreck: Things that are worth writing about: 1. Obstructed view seats - railing/plexiglass blocking views for Promenade Reserved seats (I think you'd have a crack at this only if you are a season ticket holder who paid for those seats not realizing they were obstructed) 2. Lack of Mets history/hall of fame (agreed) 3. Tarps obscuring bullpens (This might be a safety issue mandated by the league. Would be nice to know, though.) 4. New restrictions to batting practice access (agreed) 5. Lack of urinal dividers in restrooms (Flaunt it, man! But seriously, these might be coming. If you were looking for stuff that you can add slowly during the season, this would be one. worth mentioning in a letter to make sure they're aware. Some of the older parks, but the way, have a common trough. Nasty old school stuff.) 6. Deceptive promotion of club access (Go get 'em!) Things that are not worth writing about: 1. Jackie Robinson rotunda 2. Color of outfield walls (Agreed.) Not sure: 1. Inability to see parts of the outfield from seats in the outfield. I haven't sat there. (I don't plan to, either). Also am unsure about how that could even be fixed. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 08:32 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":17anausm]Did I make a Dodger crack in this thread? Because I don't think I did.[/quote:17anausm] Somebody else did, and my objection seemed to prompt your entry into the conversation. I think the signature feature is Mets baseball games. Kong76 Apr 20 2009 09:12 PM Gw: Things that are worth writing about: 1. Obstructed view seats - railing/plexiglass blocking views for Promenade Reserved seats Watched about an inning yesterday in seats, spent the rest of the day all over wandering and had a ball. 2. Lack of Mets history/hall of fame I think they're getting the message about the HOF, I don't need too much history around the ballpark other than that. 5. Lack of urinal dividers in restrooms When ya gotta go, ya gotta go ... otherwise wait 'til ya really gotta go. I'm half kidding, I'd rather not hang it out in public and the urinal toilets are kinda funny looking with no dividers. 1. Inability to see parts of the outfield from seats in the outfield. I haven't sat there. (I don't plan to, either). Also am unsure about how that could even be fixed. Yeah, that's obstructed too way down the lines. My early opinion is the trade-off of being able to wander around and watch the game from anywhere I want to thus far is worth having a plan ticket that I can probably renew year after year that (for now) that is relatively cheap. Fman99 Apr 21 2009 06:09 AM ="Gwreck":n13tm8f6]I think a letter writing campaign is a great idea. In my opinion: Things that are worth writing about: 1. Obstructed view seats - railing/plexiglass blocking views for Promenade Reserved seats 2. Lack of Mets history/hall of fame 3. Tarps obscuring bullpens 4. New restrictions to batting practice access 5. Lack of urinal dividers in restrooms 6. Deceptive promotion of club access Things that are not worth writing about: 1. Jackie Robinson rotunda 2. Color of outfield walls Not sure: 1. Inability to see parts of the outfield from seats in the outfield. I haven't sat there. (I don't plan to, either). Also am unsure about how that could even be fixed.[/quote:n13tm8f6] OK, I am the "keeps bringing up the Dodgers thing" guy. Fine. It sticks in my craw and that's that. So, why is the Jackie Robinson rotunda not worth mentioning to Mets brass? Is it because it's already a done deal? Because I think there are a fair amount of Mets fans, both here in the CPF and in general, who think that kind of tribute would best be served at Chavez Ravine and not in Flushing. I know, I know. It's been discussed to death. But it's also symbolic of some of the other complaints. It speaks to the current ownership's own inability to honor OUR team's history at the expense of other teams and players. No blue and/or orange seats? C'mon. There should be a big statue of Tom Seaver, not a big blue 42. And so on. Benjamin Grimm Apr 21 2009 07:15 AM I guess there really are two different ways of looking at this. To me, a Jackie Robinson memorial in Los Angeles wouldn't make a drop of sense. (As I said elsewhere, it would be like memorializing Connie Mack in Oakland instead of Philadelphia, or Walter Johnson in Minneapolis instead of Washington.) But on the other hand, I don't think a big rotunda in the Mets home ballpark is necessary either. A better place would have been in Keyspan Park or near the site of Ebbets Field (the real one) or near the Brooklyn anchorage of the Brooklyn Bridge. Did you catch what Rachel Robinson said when she was in the Mets broadcast booth? She was so pleased that the photos of Jackie were displayed in tile, making them permanent. She said it's nice to know that they'll be there forever. And then she added, "At least I hope so." She probably realizes that it's likely that her grandchildren, if not her children, will live to see the place torn down, with each individual tile being auctioned off. Edgy DC Apr 21 2009 07:29 AM I really don't want to have the "We're honoring a Dodger" argument in dozens of threads. duan Apr 21 2009 09:08 AM obviously I haven't seen it so I'm not a great witness. However, I have NO problem whatsoever in them having a special place for one of New York's most important ever sportsmen. It's clear that Jackie Robinson is something that baseball justifiably feels had an impact on the evolution of civil rights and of equality within your country. I can't see why honouring that is seen as anything but a pleasure. As for the Mets HOF, well I'd be inclined to think 2012 might be just around the right time for them to do it properly and in a way that has meaning. It'd have a very nice ring to it and would be a good way of celebrating 50 years. G-Fafif Apr 21 2009 09:40 AM Re: obviously I haven't seen it ="duan"]As for the Mets HOF, well I'd be inclined to think 2012 might be just around the right time for them to do it properly and in a way that has meaning. It'd have a very nice ring to it and would be a good way of celebrating 50 years. First permanent exhibit... 2009-2011: The Generally Ignoring Our History Years batmagadanleadoff Apr 21 2009 09:58 AM Re: obviously I haven't seen it ="duan":3eomplwq] As for the Mets HOF, well I'd be inclined to think 2012 might be just around the right time for them to do it properly and in a way that has meaning. It'd have a very nice ring to it and would be a good way of celebrating 50 years.[/quote:3eomplwq] Why not wait a hundred years -- to 2062? Because Diamonds are better than Gold. HahnSolo Apr 21 2009 10:24 AM Re: obviously I haven't seen it ="duan":1fn2ahcc]As for the Mets HOF, well I'd be inclined to think 2012 might be just around the right time for them to do it properly and in a way that has meaning. It'd have a very nice ring to it and would be a good way of celebrating 50 years.[/quote:1fn2ahcc] I'd think that the opening of a brand-new baseball only park for the team would be the right time to do it. duan Apr 21 2009 10:52 AM yeah but it didn't happen. Look, they're keeping Gooden's signature, they've gone on the record as acknowledging that people want more "METS" stuff, but to me this just seems like a crazy quest to beat people up over decisions that were made with decent intentions. Gwreck Apr 21 2009 11:09 AM I think we're getting off topic. I put the Rotunda in the "not worth writing about" from a purely pragmatic perspective. I doubt anyone really thinks they're going to change it. Ashie62 Apr 21 2009 02:52 PM How about a bust of Johnny Roseboro & Juan Marichal going at it..That would honor 2 post NY teams Personally..I'd like to see a bust of Bud Harrelson scruffling with Charlie Bustle

="soupcan":1avtxfwt]I didn't try to get in the club but it's my understanding that there is in fact a specific club for everyone who has a tcket. I'll find out the deal with the promenade seats.[/quote:1avtxfwt] Attempted the Promenade club with Promenade tickets. Told to take a hike, son, take a hike, that we needed Promenade Club tickets. If you know of another club hidden away on the Promenade deck (with Isaac, your bartender, serving up love, exciting and new), do tell. Frayed Knot Apr 20 2009 06:14 PM From 'Metsblog' A team spokesman just told me the Mets plan to move Doc Gooden�s autograph from the wall in the Ebbetts Club, �where only a select group of fans can see it,� to a more prominent location, �where all fans can see it.�. In addition, it will be part of a �Mets Wall-of-Fame,� so to speak, in which other notable players from the team�s past will be asked to sign the wall, and dedicate messages to fans, on days when they first visit Citi Field. Yeah ... it was our plan all along to do that. That's the ticket Lastly, the team is aware of fan response, and intends to make various announcements over then next few weeks with regards to adding Mets-centric items to the new ballpark. At least we know they're aware of the complaints. Plus we've got something to hold them to. Vic Sage Apr 21 2009 09:01 AM ]Plus we've got something to hold them to. unless the "something" to which you refer is an open flame, i'll be dissatisfied. Edgy DC Apr 21 2009 09:37 AM Mets soliciting feedback: http://www.turnkeysurveyor.com/Surveyor2/default.aspx?sid=1544929&partnerId=ed-2458376-79538018&source=ed-2458376-79538018&RespID=10b83ce94a5c1f197395bd5168900935 John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 21 2009 09:45 AM They don;t want written feedback soupcan Apr 21 2009 12:58 PM ="Edgy DC":zczq918u]It just seems to be so lazily thought out. The total space used seems more-or-less square, so why not turn it 90 degrees, from this: Guests Home to this: Guests Home ? That way both have access to the outfield wall and a vantage point to watch the game from. At least give the plum positioning to the guests. It's rude otherwise.[/quote:zczq918u] It took me two days to figure out what that post was about. soupcan Apr 21 2009 01:04 PM To all the fans lamenting about the non-Metlness of Citi Field, I would simply say to be patient. A house is not a home the day you move into it, it takes time to furnish, decorate and make it your own. I have friends that have bought houses, hired decorators and filled their houses up with furniture and crap within a month of moving in. Those houses look really nice and they're furnished and finished, but what does their house tell me about them? That they like Ethan Allen? That there's a Pottery Barn nearby? We've lived in our house for 10 years and our master bedroom is still unfurnished (of course there's a bed and a flatscreen TV in there, I'm not a complete idiot). Filling a place up with things that reflect your own style and sensibilities takes time and effort if you really want to make a place your own. The rooms we have done are very comfortable and speak to who we are and how we live as a family. Over time you collect decorative pieces and pieces of furniture on trips, at auctions, tag sales, from relatives etc. These have memories within them that add to your home and your life. I think there's nothing wrong with wanting a place ready-to-move-in when you build it, but to really get a feeling like its yours, be patient, let it grow on you. Bit by bit the place will fill up with things naturally. On the other hand, there is only 9-year-old Comerica Park... Swan Swan H Apr 21 2009 01:48 PM You'll never sell papers with that attitude, Soup. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 21 2009 01:52 PM ="soupcan"]To all the fans lamenting about the non-Metlness of Citi Field, I would simply say to be patient. A house is not a home the day you move into it, it takes time to furnish, decorate and make it your own. I have friends that have bought houses, hired decorators and filled their houses up with furniture and crap within a month of moving in. Those houses look really nice and they're furnished and finished, but what does their house tell me about them? That they like Ethan Allen? That there's a Pottery Barn nearby? We've lived in our house for 10 years and our master bedroom is still unfurnished (of course there's a bed and a flatscreen TV in there, I'm not a complete idiot). Filling a place up with things that reflect your own style and sensibilities takes time and effort if you really want to make a place your own. The rooms we have done are very comfortable and speak to who we are and how we live as a family. Over time you collect decorative pieces and pieces of furniture on trips, at auctions, tag sales, from relatives etc. These have memories within them that add to your home and your life. I think there's nothing wrong with wanting a place ready-to-move-in when you build it, but to really get a feeling like its yours, be patient, let it grow on you. Bit by bit the place will fill up with things naturally. Agree to an extent, Soups... more with the tone than the actual content, though. Management worked hard on the stadium financing package, obviously. A lot of time was spent with the HOK guys (obs. view seats notwithstanding). They seemed to put a great deal of thought into the food (thankfully) and the ticket pricing (and its eleventy billion seating costs/options). I'm with Swanny on the Rotunda-- I like the idea, and its execution. And I LOVE the Endy/Rocky/Tom silhouettes topping the other entrances. They couldn't have spent a little more time in the three-four years of stadium planning to, say, think about what their customers want by way of Mets history BEFORE the Stadium is built? Or, you know, failing that, to ask? I mean, if Doc gets it... "They have every right to do what they want with their new stadium, but I don't understand it," Gooden said. "I think it's great that they're talking about it doing now, but I would've thought it would've been there already. " metsfanbook Apr 22 2009 07:11 AM I asked the door guard about which sections were allowed into the Promenade Club and she told me 406-423, which are the seats designated as Promenade Club. So the 500-level is indeed frozen out of clubland completely. This is not a total loss since I'm not sure why people going to a ballgame want to have the kind of experience they can have in airport lounges or sports bars. Still, it is a total loss to have so much of the stadium turned over to the enforcement of economic exclusivity eerily and unpleasantly reminiscent of the kind of exclusivity people had to deal with in the days of Jackie Robinson. HahnSolo Apr 22 2009 08:53 AM ="soupcan":2n5xw76g]To all the fans lamenting about the non-Metlness of Citi Field, I would simply say to be patient. A house is not a home the day you move into it, it takes time to furnish, decorate and make it your own.[/quote:2n5xw76g] Your house may not be your home the instant you move in, but one of the first things you will do is hang photos of your kids, or if you don't have kids, your wedding day, or some great trip you've been on, or one of your old favorite pets...to remind yourself and your guests of the life you had before your new house. metsmarathon Apr 22 2009 09:11 AM it took us a few months before we started hanging things on teh walls - we wanted to make sure the pictures were in the right spots relative to where the furniture was and how we were going to use the rooms. not that i'm convinced at all that that's how the metsies were approaching it.. but still... Vic Sage Apr 22 2009 09:13 AM i have a suggestion to fix 3 problems at once. For next season, the should move the fences in 5'-10', from Left-Center to Right-Center (which now goes out to 415 feet!). This would: 1) make the park more neutral, in terms of run production; 2) allow folks in the corner upper decks to actually see the outfield plays in those areas; and 3) provide a corridor for a Mets HOF, like the old monuments area in Yankee stadium, accessible via the CF promenade food court before and after games. Rotblatt Apr 29 2009 09:50 AM I've been to two games so far (Secion 403) and have really enjoyed the stadium. The view of the back right-field corner is obstructed, but it hasn't really bothered me (had the same problem on the opposite field at Shea from Section 28, Loge Reserved, plus I couldn't see the scoreboard). For me, the sightlines are obstructed because they made the decision to put the fans closer to the field. If they'd widened the foul ground all around the perimeter by a couple of feet, I'm guessing they'd have dramatically improved the sightlines; instead, they decided to try and make the stadium more intimate. You can argue with that choice, but for me, they succeeded. Of course, if I had Vic's seats, I'd probably be less sanguine about the whole thing. . . Anyway, I'm a fan of the open feel of the stadium; walking around the park before games has been a real treat--as has the food. ]To all the fans lamenting about the non-Metlness of Citi Field, I would simply say to be patient. A house is not a home the day you move into it, it takes time to furnish, decorate and make it your own. Agreed. In a few years, I think we'll wonder what all the fuss was about. ]i have a suggestion to fix 3 problems at once. For next season, the should move the fences in 5'-10', from Left-Center to Right-Center (which now goes out to 415 feet!). This would: 1) make the park more neutral, in terms of run production; 2) allow folks in the corner upper decks to actually see the outfield plays in those areas; and 3) provide a corridor for a Mets HOF, like the old monuments area in Yankee stadium, accessible via the CF promenade food court before and after games. I'm down with this suggestion, especially if CitiField keeps playing the way it has (although I do like all the triples). LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2009 10:04 AM Went on Saturday for my first reg-season visit of the year. The loudest cheers on Saturday (8-2, Pelf goes 5.2, relative offensive explosion) were ALSO during the wave. Well, it's unseasonably warm, I figured, and the look-sees are probably a pretty sizable plurality on an early Saturday in a new stadium. Let them have their look-see... it'll be different during a midweek game, no? Well, the loudest cheers last night (4-7 loss, Livan pitches decently, Sheff hits a friggin' triple!) were again for the stadium-wide wave... that occurred while Parnell was trying to put out a Marlins rally. No two-strike clapping, no "LGM" chants-- apart from some smatterings in the Promenade-- unless the scoreboard demanded it, and only WHILE the scoreboard demanded it, and no standing. At all. I'm not sure if passive fan behavior is a commentary on the stadium but if having less comfort made Shea the place it was for the diehards, I will gladly surrender my Shake Shack. To me, the prospect of poor sightlines doesn't rankle nearly as much as the prospect of our becoming MFY fans in orange... or something boo-happily worse. Ceetar Apr 29 2009 10:30 AM Thrilled I'm thrilled with the new park, although I do agree that I could do with more pictures and such. Name the concessions after old Mets, put at least the Mets logo in those barren stairwells. Some things I noticed in this thread: The Acela Club. I'm 99% this is the Diamond Club, where you basically have to have a premium ticket and _then_ make reservations. The Promenade Club is indeed only for the infield 400level promenade sections. The Club's kinda overrated (i was there for the Sox game). It's got TVs, a full bar, and standard ballpark fare that you can just as easily get right behind it in the food court area. Due to the handicap seats, the cameras, and the sections in front of you, you really can't see home plate from inside. Especially if the fans stand up. I heard a rumor that they were going to start letting _everyone_ on the Promenade in, but if that's the case it'll become the most overcrowded horrible area anyway, especially if it's cold. I'd avoid the LF outfield seats on the top two levels if I could, but I'm happy with every other view. A couple of blocked corners, but that's nothing new. The standing room, especially on the Promenade where feels like basically watching the game from the Mezz tunnels at Shea, but without being in anyone's way, are excellent. The field level standing views are nice too, come with tables and cup holders, but get crowded. The food is pretty much amazing, and you can get the regular stuff too. The beer selection, 29+ and counting, and 'only $7.50 for premium, is excellent too. I wouldn't buy beer at Shea because I wouldn't overpay for crap, but now I will. Some of the beers are even exclusive to Citi Field. I miss Shea, but I'm quickly falling in love with this place. themetfairy Apr 29 2009 11:08 AM As of last weekend, the Promenade Club is now open to all fans. We didn't buy anything there Sunday, but we scoped the place out. Any place that has a chop salad made to order is good in my book. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 29 2009 11:27 AM I just wanted in to the Promenade club because I had frostbite. themetfairy Apr 29 2009 12:38 PM FWIW, the view in there suxx. But it does have climate control. Centerfield Apr 29 2009 01:10 PM ="Vic Sage":68r4yy2v]i have a suggestion to fix 3 problems at once. For next season, the should move the fences in 5'-10', from Left-Center to Right-Center (which now goes out to 415 feet!). This would: 1) make the park more neutral, in terms of run production; 2) allow folks in the corner upper decks to actually see the outfield plays in those areas; and 3) provide a corridor for a Mets HOF, like the old monuments area in Yankee stadium, accessible via the CF promenade food court before and after games.[/quote:68r4yy2v] Yup. And give me a uniform, 8 foot wall so Carlos can gloriously rob HR's. I keep thinking of Pratt's home run just over Finley's glove and how we can never have a moment like that here. metsmarathon Apr 29 2009 01:29 PM can dwight howard play centerfield? he might get up near the top of them fences... Fman99 Jun 26 2009 07:27 AM Reviving this thread after my first trip to the new park. 1. The parking situation is abhorrent. I envy those of you who are in easy reach of mass transit options to the park. We had to park across the street from the Citi Field parking lot, even though THOSE lots were not filled out, in a very disorganized lot by the train platform. Took 25 minutes to exit said lot and 15 minutes to find a spot to park in the first place, with virtually no employee guidance on where to go. Also a pointless wait for my change despite paying cash. Whiff. Add a two hour escape across the Grand Central, Triboro and Deegan to that and now you're living my day. 2. The rotunda is really sharp. Didn't linger as it was about 12:55 by the time Fboy and I got in the building. Liked the 'greeters' out front though, nice touch. 3. We didn't try and get food from any of the higher end, funkier choices because of time. Just shot up to the Promenade and had dogs and fries from Nathan's which were fine. Sad that I couldn't get a knish on the top deck, ah well. 4. The view from the Promendae is nice. It's an upper deck, and calling it the "promenade" is a bit farcical to me, but we were 10 or so rows from the top and I thought the view was solid. The two huge screens in center and right/center are a nice touch also for replays, stats, etc. 5. So many plugs, commercials and "contests" between innings and during pitching changes. Just a bombardment of it, really, and not as much time to appreciate the sounds of the crowd. It seemed like way more than what we used to get at Shea. 6. Fboy rocked the kids batting tee/field in the kids' zone. I liked having the gift shop out there too -- we did his batting thing (2 innings lost), and then got him a souvenier baseball and moved on. Skipped the pitching cages and the other crudola out there. Some of those kids sucked at tee ball. Older than Fboy and couldn't hit and ran to third instead of first. What are they pod people? Fboy hit three frozen ropes and loved it. 7. It was super cool to meet MetFairy, MiniKnight and G-Fafif. I couldn't stay with them for long because their seats were in the sun and Fboy handles that like milk on a hotplate. Still, voices to faces is always good. They got the PG version of Fman, due to Fboy being in tow, but it counts. I'll be going back, maybe this year. Edgy DC Jun 26 2009 07:34 AM Yeah, I've meaining to gently tell you that your kid needs some pigment therapy. themetfairy Jun 26 2009 08:21 AM They have Nathan's knishes on the Promenade level (and I'm pretty sure at the Kosher stand on that level also) - When you diet the way I do, you get well acquainted with all of the food choices (especially those which have only 170 calories). It was great meeting you in person - thanks for stopping by Nymr83 Jun 26 2009 10:27 AM the kosher-stand knishes are AMAZING, they are like giant garlic knots filled with potato. ]1. The parking situation is abhorrent. I envy those of you who are in easy reach of mass transit options to the park. We had to park across the street from the Citi Field parking lot, even though THOSE lots were not filled out, in a very disorganized lot by the train platform. Took 25 minutes to exit said lot and 15 minutes to find a spot to park in the first place, with virtually no employee guidance on where to go. Also a pointless wait for my change despite paying cash. Whiff i've been in that lot and once took nearly an hour to get out of there. of course i was with a girl and made good use of the time. metirish Jun 26 2009 10:41 AM ="Nymr83"]the kosher-stand knishes are AMAZING, they are like giant garlic knots filled with potato. ]1. The parking situation is abhorrent. I envy those of you who are in easy reach of mass transit options to the park. We had to park across the street from the Citi Field parking lot, even though THOSE lots were not filled out, in a very disorganized lot by the train platform. Took 25 minutes to exit said lot and 15 minutes to find a spot to park in the first place, with virtually no employee guidance on where to go. Also a pointless wait for my change despite paying cash. Whiff i've been in that lot and once took nearly an hour to get out of there. of course i was with a girl and made good use of the time. You lectured her on the constitution and the need to " fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" G-Fafif Jun 26 2009 10:45 AM ="metirish"]="Nymr83"]the kosher-stand knishes are AMAZING, they are like giant garlic knots filled with potato. ]1. The parking situation is abhorrent. I envy those of you who are in easy reach of mass transit options to the park. We had to park across the street from the Citi Field parking lot, even though THOSE lots were not filled out, in a very disorganized lot by the train platform. Took 25 minutes to exit said lot and 15 minutes to find a spot to park in the first place, with virtually no employee guidance on where to go. Also a pointless wait for my change despite paying cash. Whiff i've been in that lot and once took nearly an hour to get out of there. of course i was with a girl and made good use of the time. You lectured her on the constitution and the need to " fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" Sounds more like what to do in the parking lot leaving the Atlantic League All-Star Game. Fman99 Jun 26 2009 10:47 AM ="themetfairy"]They have Nathan's knishes on the Promenade level (and I'm pretty sure at the Kosher stand on that level also) - When you diet the way I do, you get well acquainted with all of the food choices (especially those which have only 170 calories). It was great meeting you in person - thanks for stopping by Now I'm bummed. I just stopped at the first Promenade spot that we saw because I didn't want to miss the start of the game and there were no knishes at that specific one. I did not venture further in search of them. Ah well, I'll have to search that out next time I guess. themetfairy Jun 26 2009 10:58 AM Ya got any food questions next time, let me know. I'm in the zone LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 26 2009 11:11 AM ="themetfairy":kn892bgt]Ya got any food questions next time, let me know. I'm in the zone [/quote:kn892bgt] I'm all about the fat, bad-for-you, mood-changing shit when at the ballpark. So if you need a concessions guide on your OTHER shoulder... themetfairy Jun 26 2009 11:39 AM You're assuming that I haven't tried out Shake Shack, Blue Smoke, etc. Faulty assumption. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 26 2009 12:11 PM @ TMF: Misinterpreted "in the zone." Thoughts on the Shack and the 'cue? (You sounded... uneffusive in earlier posts.) Frankly, unless I'm getting there late, or with someone who's gunshy about the line, I'm on the Double Shack like white on Ellen DeGeneres. Underratedly delicious: Beer-steamed hot dog at Catch of the Day. It's subtly sweet, and even tastier than the Nathan's-- perfect with just a dab of moutarde. Swan Swan H Jun 26 2009 12:33 PM The Double Shack and a black and white shake are bliss. The pulled pork and ribs from Blue Smoke are right there as well. The fries at Shake Shack are fine, and Box Frites fries are awesome, but the best fries I had on our tour came from Catch of the Day. For all I know they're the same as the others, but they were just perfect the day we had them. Can't go wrong with any of them, though, and the dips at Box Frites, especially the bacon, are killer. The only disappointment from any of the new stands was the shrimp po' boy. Too mustard-seedy for my tongue, but lots of folks rave. Monster shrimp done right on a delicious roll, the dressing was just not to my taste. themetfairy Jun 26 2009 12:43 PM Did Shake Shack during the batting practice day in April. The burger was good, but not worth the huge line that you get most days. Really liked the shake - had more of it than I planned on (was sharing with MK). Did Blue Smoke yesterday - shared a pulled pork sandwich with MK. Tasty, but a bit on the fatty side. Box Frite fries are overrated - the big deal with those are the dipping sauces. Nathan's fries are much better (and more available throughout the park). BTW, the garlic fries from the World's Fare Market are too light on the garlic/too heavy on the salt. Didn't try the dog at Catch of the Day. With respect to the chowder and the calamari - good for ballpark food, but not great overall. The shrimp cocktail salad isn't much of a salad - some nice jumbo shrimp, but just a bed of lettuce with it. Shared the taco combo plate yesterday, and found it very tasty. The corn on the cob at the taco place is buttered and spiced - a little odd, but tasty. Next on my hit list is to try the eggplant parm hero at the Italian place on the concourse. Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2009 12:46 PM Is that Mama's of Corona? (They have a location on the roof of the Rotunda.) When we were there, I had the turkey/mozzarella hero. (I loved being able to order a "hero" instead of a "hoagie" by the way.) themetfairy Jun 26 2009 12:51 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":a6ixasn8]Is that Mama's of Corona? (They have a location on the roof of the Rotunda.) When we were there, I had the turkey/mozzarella hero. (I loved being able to order a "hero" instead of a "hoagie" by the way.)[/quote:a6ixasn8] No - the eggplant parm is at Nonna Delia's. I've done Mama's of Corona a lot for the grilled chicken salad and I tried the antipasto salad once. Those are my go-to meals when I'm hungry and want something light. And the tomatoes and mozzerella from there is REALLY tasty! Mama's is on the Promenade Level food court, and is also available in the World's Fare Market. Sushi is also in the World's Fare Market. I had a taste once, and enjoyed it. Will do it again later in the season. One hint - if you want Carvel ice cream, and the line at the Carvel stand is long, just go to one of the regular concession stands; they have the same ice cream there. BTW, if you're looking for coffee, there's a Dunkin' Donuts stand to the left after you take the stairs/escalator up through the Jackie Robinson Rotunda (there's other coffee throughout the park, but Dunkin' is better). There's also a Subway there (and on the Promenade level food court) if you're looking to count calories with a quick sandwich. soupcan Jun 26 2009 12:59 PM You guys that complain about the Shake Shack line are doing it wrong. Before the game starts the line is much more manageable. 10-15 minutes tops. During a game you could be stranded out there for 2-3 innings. I'm all about the Double Shack with a black & white. metirish Jun 26 2009 01:01 PM I didn't get to Shake Shack when I was there , better planning like soup says is the trick...when you order the ribs do you get a good slab or what? Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2009 01:04 PM When I was there, the line was pretty darn long about 45 minutes prior to game time. Maybe it was short compared to during the game. I don't know, we didn't head back that way again. G-Fafif Jun 26 2009 01:06 PM My brother-in-law said he waited 45 minutes for Shake Shack last Sunday and was thrilled. He hates baseball. G-Fafif Jun 26 2009 01:07 PM ="metirish":1esm0zgl]I didn't get to Shake Shack when I was there , better planning like soup says is the trick...when you order the ribs do you get a good slab or what?[/quote:1esm0zgl] I witnessed an order being consumed the other night: five big ribs. Does not look unfilling. Swan Swan H Jun 26 2009 01:16 PM My daughter's office just moved across the street from Madison Square Park, home of the original Shake Shack. I am beyond jealous. themetfairy Jun 26 2009 01:29 PM BTW, one nice thing about Citi Field is the ability to find a condiments station throughout the park. I love sauerkraut, and I appreciate being able to take as much as I want for my Nathan's dog (or any other dog you choose). LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 26 2009 01:58 PM ="soupcan"]You guys that complain about the Shake Shack line are doing it wrong. Before the game starts the line is much more manageable. 10-15 minutes tops. During a game you could be stranded out there for 2-3 innings. I'm all about the Double Shack with a black & white. Indeed. Definitely pregame. An hour before gametime, it's a quick 20 (especially if you bring a beer and a companion). When the line spills past the sausage and peppers stand nearby, it's time to have some tacos or ribs. I'm okay with the pork. I dig on the ribs (4-5 bronto-sized dry rubbed beauts) and the sweet-and-tangy wings (usually prefer mine hot-- but these are succulent and not cloyingly sweet). ="themetfairy"]BTW, one nice thing about Citi Field is the ability to find a condiments station throughout the park. I love sauerkraut, and I appreciate being able to take as much as I want for my Nathan's dog (or any other dog you choose). Also, multiple kinds of mustard. And the availability of Mama's in the hoi-palloi food court is the double truth, Ruth. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:12 AM First time with the Blue Smoke spare ribs Sunday night, before the game. Culinary highlight of the season. Obviously the highlight of Sunday night. sharpie Jun 29 2009 07:03 AM My first time at Citifield last night. Went to the Smoke Shack for the pulled pork. Loved it. Great beer at that beer garden place as well. Later, went for another beer at one of the regular beer stands. I notice the guy is pouring two. I note that I only ordered one and he said he misunderstood me. He charged me for one, but gave me two. I like it. The seats, via KC, had their problems. First row of the upper deck which meant you watch home plate through plexiglass and between railings. The "Let's Go Yankees" alternating with the "Yankees Suck" chants were mostly happening elsewhere until the end when the MFY fans began to predominate. From where we sat it sounded like the same people were invoking both chants so that people were yelling "Let's go Yankees Yankees Suck." The worst was the MFY fans at the subway station gloating. Other than that, and the outcome, we enjoyed ourselves. dgwphotography Jun 29 2009 07:25 AM ="G-Fafif":1mhncrh7]Opposing relievers are psyched out by their proximity to the old Home Run Apple.[/quote:1mhncrh7] Standing on the mound, and facing the Mets' lineup is quite the elixir, though... Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 09:22 AM does Blue Smoke have any good fish? themetfairy Jun 29 2009 09:36 AM ="Nymr83":1m4bprs9]does Blue Smoke have any good fish?[/quote:1m4bprs9] I don't think it has fish - it's ribs, pulled pork, etc. For fish you want Catch of the Day (between the World's Fare Market and the Willie Mays Bridge). metirish Jun 29 2009 09:40 AM Does Catch of the day have ribs? Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 09:46 AM ="themetfairy":3u3vk04a]="Nymr83":3u3vk04a]does Blue Smoke have any good fish?[/quote:3u3vk04a] I don't think it has fish - it's ribs, pulled pork, etc. For fish you want Catch of the Day (between the World's Fare Market and the Willie Mays Bridge).[/quote:3u3vk04a] the worlds fair market had some awesome cheesecake. i missed catch of the day i guess John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 29 2009 09:46 AM ="metirish":1ygl4iu9]Does Catch of the day have ribs?[/quote:1ygl4iu9] lol themetfairy Jun 29 2009 11:58 AM ="metirish":30lozeih]Does Catch of the day have ribs?[/quote:30lozeih] If it's a serious question, the answer is no. Calamari, chowder, other fish dishes. But I give a thumbs down to the shrimp cocktail salad - nice shrimp, but not much of a salad (and I tend to rely on entree salads to get through games). metirish Jul 14 2009 07:36 AM A mid-season report from Mark Hermann , not that that means much but there is a bit of news regarding Citi field A tale of two new ballparks BY MARK HERRMANN | mark.herrmann@newsday.com 9:58 PM EDT, July 13, 2009 ] This just proves that all rookies need a while to settle in, even a pair that came in together with a massive buildup and a combined $2.3-billion price tag. All that New York can say to the new Yankee Stadium and Citi Field after a sometimes rocky, sometimes pretty first half-season is what the city always says to a bonus baby: Welcome to the big leagues, kid. The new homes for the Yankees and Mets sure were the talk of the town, as expected. It's just that the clubs who built the stadiums (or, as they prefer, a stadium and a ballpark) never imagined the conversation would be about obstructed views, empty seats, muted tradition and, above all, too many or too few home runs. Everyone in the big leagues has heard the buzz. In his first hour as a Met on Saturday, former Brave Jeff Francoeur said: "You're not going to go out and hit 45 home runs in this park. If you want to do that, you've got to go 10 miles down the road." Nothing like each other Yes, the park built for intimacy is playing like the Grand Canyon and the stadium built for grand stature is playing like a neighborhood slow-pitch softball diamond. Yankee Stadium, next door to the slowly disappearing old Yankee Stadium, has become the Cape Canaveral of ballparks. It's a launching pad for four-base hits and one-liners. It has been called Coors Field East because it appeared to be a challenger to break the Denver stadium's record for homers in a season (303). Citi Field, next door to the vanished Shea Stadium (now a parking lot), has become baseball's Great Plains, a paradigm for the Mets' offensive drought. The first reason cited for acquiring Francoeur was that he is good enough to track down balls in the roomy, quirky outfield. Even for a couple of phenoms, replacing a combined 129 years of history isn't easy. Both clubs (especially the Mets) point out that most fans really like the new parks. And as for the kinks, each side said it is working on them. Back in March, the Yankees reduced the prices of some bleacher seats that didn't have full views. In April, in the face of ridicule over the sight of so many empty, padded premium seats right near the field, they announced a huge markdown and/or rebate, especially on the $2,500 tickets. They'll let it play out A Yankees spokesman said Monday that the club is not commenting on the Stadium now, instead choosing to see how the rest of the season goes. Hal Steinbrenner, the managing general partner, recently did send out e-mails to some customers inviting them to meetings at the Stadium or Rockefeller Center, and "telling us how we are doing and how we can make the 'Yankee Stadium Experience.' " Bloggers have objected to relentless promotions on the public address system, the fact that Monument Park is basically hidden behind the centerfield fence and that the place just doesn't have the electric feel that the building next door had. Visiting players have privately said the new Stadium is not as verbally intimidating as the old. Blue Jays first baseman Kevin Millar, formerly of the Red Sox, said he preferred the original: "I got booed a lot louder. I like to get booed. I don't know if it's all corporate, but they're too nice to me here." Home of the home run The real major story, though, is the long ball. The Stadium's home run binge isn't what it was, but it still is booming. The total of 142 through 42 games is on pace for 274, as opposed to 160 next door last year. In 46 road games, the Yankees and their opponents have hit only 102. At first, the Yankees blamed it on the weather, but a meteorologist disputed that, releasing a study backing the contention of hittrackeronline.com. It attributed the power surge to the lack of curvature in the rightfield wall (to accommodate a vintage-looking auxiliary scoreboard), effectively making the field smaller. Early in the season, A.J. Burnett spoke on behalf of all pitchers when he said, "This ballpark, obviously, is in your head." But the Yankees have won 20 of their past 29 at home, to which reliever Phil Coke said, "Even though, early on, it seemed like this place was going to yield the same amount in home runs as it did [in dollars] to build it, we're going to get the job done." Manager Joe Girardi said last week: "I love coming here; the players love coming here. Even though our ballpark has so much to offer and has so many new things, I think a lot of people have seen a lot of it and I think now the game is the main attraction. I don't know because I'm not in the stands, I'm not in the Great Hall, I'm not in the restaurants, but that's just kind of a feeling I get." Not enough Mets Dave Howard, the Mets' executive vice president for business, said Citi Field has been "extremely well received," with people commenting even on their reception in the parking lot. He did acknowledge early-season criticisms: Some seats have obstructed views and that there is less celebration of Mets history than the Brooklyn Dodgers' legacy. As much as there was a "good riddance" feeling about Shea, there was an uproar Sunday when one of its traditions, the apple, failed to pop out of the centerfield hat for the second of two home runs. "We've heard our fans," he said. So, he said, the Mets received permission from Major League Baseball to show the live feed on video screens the instant the ball is in play, allowing fans to follow action they might not see live. Also, an additional video board will be installed in the rightfield corner after the All-Star break. Howard added that more Mets memories will be reflected with displays in the park this summer, and that there are bigger long-term plans to give the place a Mets atmosphere. Whether they will make it a more hitter-friendly atmosphere by bringing in the fences or lowering the walls is a decision for the offseason. Howard did say that if the Mets are healthy, the park can work to their advantage because of their gap hitters, fly ball-oriented pitchers and mobile centerfielder and rightfielder. Backup centerfielder Angel Pagan said, "I need room to gallop, so this is the right place." Howard said, "I think it gets in other teams' heads, too." The question is, does it get in Mets' heads, especially David Wright's? There is some feeling that he and other Mets have taken their Citi Field swings on the road, where they have hit even fewer home runs than they have at home (24 to 28). "You have to adjust your approach, you have to adjust your philosophy to this ballpark because it's not a launching pad,'' Wright said. "It's not a place where you're going to go out and get a lot of cheap home runs." Gary Sheffield, who had a fondness for Shea ever since his uncle Dwight Gooden pitched there, said: "I love Citi Field. The atmosphere is electric. It's a challenge, but if you hit the ball square, it goes out." The half-season has not been a solid hit or a full whiff for either park. But this week will be big in both spots. Yankee Stadium will import memories from next door with Oldtimers Day on Sunday. Citi Field will strike a chord with concerts by Paul McCartney, who played Shea with the Beatles in 1965, and with Billy Joel, who helped close down Shea last year. Having gotten into heads and under skin, the two rookies, clearly here to stay, are trying to make their way into people's hearts. Frayed Knot Jul 14 2009 07:39 AM ="metirish":2cq4yf7v]Does Catch of the day have ribs?[/quote:2cq4yf7v] I think most fish have ribs, yes. dgwphotography Jul 14 2009 07:57 AM We made the shake shack our first stop after getting off the subway on Sunday... We got a table and walked right up and placed an order with no line at all.... metirish Jul 14 2009 08:02 AM ="Frayed Knot":3n1il63q]="metirish":3n1il63q]Does Catch of the day have ribs?[/quote:3n1il63q] I think most fish have ribs, yes.[/quote:3n1il63q] tis true.......I got our smart assed.... metirish Jul 14 2009 08:02 AM ="dgwphotography":2ccowj6z]We made the shake shack our first stop after getting off the subway on Sunday... We got a table and walked right up and placed an order with no line at all....[/quote:2ccowj6z] not told here is the dgwp was carrying a gun. DocTee Jul 14 2009 08:06 AM Mebbe the Mets should bring this guy aboard: [url:r0m1vf1g]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/14/SPE718LA3T.DTL[/url:r0m1vf1g] dgwphotography Jul 14 2009 08:06 AM ="metirish":37oc76h5]="dgwphotography":37oc76h5]We made the shake shack our first stop after getting off the subway on Sunday... We got a table and walked right up and placed an order with no line at all....[/quote:37oc76h5] not told here is the dgwp was carrying a gun.[/quote:37oc76h5] LOL - I just a pretty big lens... Not my fault if they mistook it for a weapon... The view from the 7... bmfc1 Jul 14 2009 09:38 AM http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spparks1412966058jul13,0,6093781.story Some changes will be made to CF. What gets me that management had to "hear" from the fans before realizing that we want Mets history to be incorporated into a Mets ballpark. A smarter management would have built a team HOF right away instead of as an afterthought. A smarter management would have kept a panel or two from the Shea OF fence in place (if it didn't impede traffic) as both an historical marker and a meeting place. metsguyinmichigan Jul 14 2009 10:28 AM ="dgwphotography":72k07gfl]="metirish":72k07gfl]="dgwphotography":72k07gfl]We made the shake shack our first stop after getting off the subway on Sunday... We got a table and walked right up and placed an order with no line at all....[/quote:72k07gfl] not told here is the dgwp was carrying a gun.[/quote:72k07gfl] LOL - I just a pretty big lens... Not my fault if they mistook it for a weapon... The view from the 7... [/quote:72k07gfl] Beautiful photo! It really is a nice-looking ballpark. Benjamin Grimm Jul 14 2009 10:59 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":123rtddu] Beautiful photo! [/quote:123rtddu] I agree! ="metsguyinmichigan":123rtddu] It really is a nice-looking ballpark.[/quote:123rtddu] I agree with that, too. I only wish it was closer to Manhattan. metirish Jul 14 2009 11:01 AM Why closer to Manhattan when you live closer to Philly? the image is very beautiful , great capture. Benjamin Grimm Jul 14 2009 11:04 AM I wasn't thinking of my own convenience. I just think the stadium would be better located closer to Manhattan so they'd be able to get more of the after-work crowd. Vic Sage Jul 14 2009 11:56 AM its easy to get there after work. It's a 35 minute ride on the 7 train, or less on the LIRR. The problem is driving during rush hour, but that would be the problem even if you drove to the east side from the west side. G-Fafif Jul 14 2009 12:20 PM Great picture, no surprise, considering the lensman. Park and setting still need to be surrounded by a city block for full effect. Otherwise it still smacks of Arlington Comes to Flushing rather than homage to St. Ebbets. Farmer Ted Jul 15 2009 03:28 PM Took in the game on Sunday. First time to Citi. Had recent trips to PNC and Safeco so I was anxious to do a some comparison shopping. Overall a definite A. I got there early so I was literally the first person to the Shake Shack. Yum. Only an hour before game time and the place was mobbed. So here are my drawbacks: 1. Food court. Serious congestion here before and during the game. Put a destination location at the stadium and everyone flocks to it. I say tear down some of the junk yards across the street, install a foot bridge, and put some more fun stuff over there to ease the food mess. 2. Concourse width not enough. Then again, maybe the concourse is wide enough but you lose 10 feet of space with the cashier ropes that jut out from the food counters. Who thought of this traffic nightmare? 3. Home Run apple. I'll give a pass to the apple not coming up for Tatis' home run. I was turned away trying to get to the OLD apple since there was a private reception on that level. Fuckers. I was impressed with the staff at the game. Tons of staff in an array of colored shirts. Lady behind me got up in between innings and the schmuck behind her spilled beer on her seat. Dude was sloshed and subsequently tossed by security for being "that guy". No fewer than five staff showed up including one supervisor to wash down and scrub around her seat. NEVER saw that at Shea or any other stadium. I had the usher nazi in my section. No ticket, get out. Ninth inning and want to sneak down for a closer look? Tough shit. The place looked great. Still a bit sad about the vacant parking lot next to it. Surprised to see the brackets holding up piping in the stadium were rusting. Yeah, rusting. Speaking of Rust. No homage to Rusty Staub? Boog Powell and Greg Luzinski have their food pits. Until the area around the stadium is cleaned up, Safeco and PNC still get a slight edge for convenience and accessibility. I was happy that the place turned out to be a top flight facility. Ashie62 Jul 15 2009 08:25 PM ="metirish":fl693ser]Why closer to Manhattan when you live closer to Philly? the image is very beautiful , great capture.[/quote:fl693ser] Wish it was closer to Newark...sorry..train goes there dgwphotography Jul 16 2009 11:45 AM ="G-Fafif":19bf1wye]Great picture, no surprise, considering the lensman.[/quote:19bf1wye] This takes me back to the writing in those 1970's yearbooks.... ="G-Fafif":19bf1wye]Park and setting still need to be surrounded by a city block for full effect. Otherwise it still smacks of Arlington Comes to Flushing rather than homage to St. Ebbets.[/quote:19bf1wye] This is an excellent point - I oddly felt more in place when standing line for the the Mr. Met dash by the chop shops... G-Fafif Jul 16 2009 12:50 PM I think CF looks best when viewed from 126th St, though that's not really the ballpark. The admin building looks like a civic institution there, like a school or post office from the 1930s. Fits into a neighborhood even if the neighborhood isn't there. I like the back end of it, supporting the Willie Mays Bridge and the Pepsi Porch, as viewed from the Promenade as well. A bit of an OP@CY warehouse feel. Just a bit.