G-Fafif

Plenty of good seats suddenly available.

It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel.

On SportsNite, while the highlights were shown, the scroll said it was Brewers 4 Mets 4. They must be watching on Yahoo!

I hear the Yankees suck and Matthews is a tool.

bmfc1 wrote: Schneider to the DL... welcome Omir Santos (#9). No. 9 Dream Omir Santos? That would be swell.

Experiencing my annual warm and fuzzy that the black uni tops are back. Won't care that much by next month, always returns me to '99 and '00 when I see them for the first time every year.

metirish wrote: Schneider placed on the 15 DL.....bank problem No wonder he plays at Citi Field.

Milwaukee's Middlingest Weeks 2B Hart RF Braun LF Fielder 1B Hardy SS Cameron CF Hall 3B Rivera C Bush P New York's Finest Reyes SS Murphy LF Wright 3B Delgado 1B Beltran CF Church RF Castro C Castillo 2B Hernandez P Play ball!

And here. Pepsi made a mistake. A mistake in trying to deal with these people.

Whole lot of 'em here.

It's always nice to to see Sports Illustrated's one true wanker, Jon Heyman, come back to wanking. But just so everyone understands, he's paid for this nonsense.

The girl who wore her Mets shirt on the 2001 MTV Movie Awards is all grown up and attending Home Openers. Re-meet Julia Stiles. ]Making New Memories Actress Julia Stiles, a hard-core Mets fan, reports on Opening Day By JULIA STILES Once again, the Yankees are harshing my mellow. When the Mets renovated their bullpen by adding J.J. Putz and Frankie Rodriguez, the Yankees had to trump them by snagging ace starter CC Sabathia for a record high, seven-year contract that is more than the Mets' annual payroll. With all the excitement of a new ballpark, now Mets fans are forced to share bragging rights again, as Yankee Stadium is rebuilt for nearly twice as much money, and without the baggage of a bailed-out bank for its name. The Yankees said goodbye to a home that was historic, full of aura and mystique, but the Mets deserved a new ballpark -- in fact, they needed one for morale. Shea was the place where I sat in the mezzanine to watch the Mets lose to the Yankees in the 2000 Subway Series, and tried to ignore the sound of cocksure Bronx fans cheering their Game 5 victory in Flushing. Last year, I sat behind the third-base line for the last home game ever, and the feeling in the stands was electric. The Mets were only half a game behind in the wild-card race. By the time the Mets fell to the Marlins, though, most fans had disappeared, and the postgame tribute to Shea was quietly lukewarm. Mets fans know the feeling of stale air around Shea, where Roosevelt Avenue is a better place to change a muffler than to drink your sorrows away. It's strange that as the Mets bid farewell to their home in 2008, eager to move on from a disappointing September, few predicted another major collapse -- that of the economy. Eight-hundred-million-dollar stadiums aside, baseball is not recession-proof. A handful of free agents felt the pinch this year, settling for lower salaries, as Los Angeles Angels outfielder Bobby Abreu did, or continuing to hold out unsigned, like injury-plagued Pedro Mart�nez. His plan to use the World Baseball Classic as an audition for the Mets didn't pan out as effectively as he had hoped. Despite his decent six innings in two games for the Dominican Republic, the Mets refused to re-sign him. Too much money for an arm with so much wear and tear. At the home opener at Citi Field Monday night, the atmosphere was tentative. For so much anticipation over the new ballpark, fans were surprisingly hushed during the first five innings. The game got off to an inauspicious start when Mike Pelfrey gave up a solo home run off his third pitch, and then turned bizarre when he mysteriously fell to the mound. A stray cat darted onto the warning track behind home plate, inexplicably, but not for the first time in Mets history. Fans were distracted by their surroundings, and did not seem at ease in their new home, until David Wright's three-run homer finally captured their attention. The rest may have been disappointing -- the Mets lost 6-5 to the Padres -- but at least there was the familiar sound of some cheering and lots of heckling. Mets fans are understandably cautious this early in the season, and grab onto any indication of what to expect from an unpredictable team. Is Oliver Perez's weight symbolic of his attitude after signing a fat three-year, $36 million contract? Will John Maine be the pitcher we remember from before his shoulder injury last year? Is this the year Mike Pelfrey matures? Liv�n Hern�ndez is a solid fifth, because he can throw a lot of innings with predictable efficiency. On paper, though, the starting rotation looks much the same as last year, minus Pedro, and may rely too heavily on middle relief. As for the park, conceptually it is an absolute improvement, reminiscent of Ebbets Field, with stands like the old Polo Grounds. The open-air concourse allows for good views of the field, and is much less claustrophobic than Shea. The beer lines are slower because they insist on pouring it for you, but the only place you'll find a quicker ladies room is at a Rush concert -- I know from experience. A lot of the controversy surrounding Citi Field's design came from the reduction of cheap upper-deck seats, and the addition of more luxury boxes. Even though there were often thousands of unsold tickets per game at Shea, the new design could end up backfiring. With the Mets behind one run Monday night, the pricey seats behind home plate cleared out early, leaving the dedicated fans on the periphery. I was skeptical when I heard that the Mets organization had jumped on the rarefied-food bandwagon, offering pricey shrimp po' boys, sushi and lobster rolls by a celebrity chef. It was kind of cute to have a sushi roll named after Ichiro Suzuki at Safeco Field, when the Mariners set up camp there in 1999, and you might expect Maryland crab cakes at Camden Yards, but honestly -- fish at a baseball game? The Mets don't even have a single Japanese player on their roster, and New York is known for its hot dogs. Period. The beauty of old parks like Wrigley Field is that you only get a few choices: beer (regular or light), hot dogs (the normal-sized ones) and pretzels wrapped in waxed paper. If you want more options, Wrigleyville is right outside, but it's understood that there is no room inside the ballpark for culinary pretense. The good news is that the fancy food court in Queens is situated behind center field, with benches overlooking the game at no extra cost. It will be a while before fans take ownership of Citi Field, because you can't manufacture nostalgia. A few photos from 1986 or more recent memorabilia might have expedited making fans feel at home. We don't need to forget everything that happened in the old park; Mets fans are proud to be long-suffering. "I have good memories, especially of the clubhouse, but there are a lot of bad memories in the last couple years," said Mets third baseman David Wright about Shea. "Hopefully Citi Field will be an upgrade -- a new beginning." There are reasons for fans to be optimistic; along with a new stadium came an improved bullpen, the return of Ryan Church and excitement about younger players like Daniel Murphy. The biggest problem last year was late-inning relief, and the organization is still paying for its own toxic asset in that department. Hopefully this year's righty-dominant bullpen, with Pedro Feliciano as the only lefty, will prove it is better to have good righties than OK lefties. (Injured lefty closer Billy Wagner started throwing Tuesday, and he could be an interesting seventh-inning option). This is not the first time a large structure stands as a reminder of a more prosperous time. The Empire State Building opened at the beginning of the Great Depression and the World Trade Center was completed just before the country slipped into a recession. Logically, large-scale, expensive developments come at the apex of an economic boom. Some would argue that part of the problem with the market now is that we are facing a crisis of confidence, and how to overcome that remains elusive. For Mets fans, whether the new park symbolizes a fresh start won't be clear until October, and its deeper significance won't be apparent for the next 40 years. Let's hope Citi Field is just the right shot in the arm to put the word "collapse" behind us. Julia Stiles is an actress and a Mets fan living in New York. She blogs at www.juliastilesblog.com.

First Night Flushing, here.

="Edgy DC"]Delgado has a crew? When you're a Delg You're the big man in town Blasting balls to the Porch Turning frowns upside down It's not much of a crew.

="Edgy DC":1s2trfoy]My main HoF problem was that, in the post-doubleheader era, ceremonies have occurred before game time with the seats scarcely populated. I distinctly remembered being embarassed by the paucity of audience for Jerry Koosman's induction, which may have been Rube Walker's last time on the field.[/quote:1s2trfoy] Since 2000, whenever they do a big event, like '06 reunion or All-Amazin' Team or Ralph Night, they move it back to the start time on the ticket. That way people are indeed in their seats. They didn't do it in '02 for Agee's induction and it was a little depressing. You might recall Seaver criticized Valentine mightily for not having his team in the dugout (they were having a meeting that saved their season, thus that 2002 pennant that flies high and proud over Citi Field). Seaver was correct. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:34 PM Jackie Robinson played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. They are the only team for which a tribute to Jackie would be a perfect fit. Unfortunately, that team doesn't exist anymore. It sucks, but it's reality. Sometimes there are no good answers. The Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Mets are probably the best options left. Arguments can be given for each team, but for every argument, there is a valid argument against. If I had to choose one of the two, I'd probably say the Dodgers are more appropriate. But I don't feel strongly one way or the other. Which brings us to the rotunda. Does it make sense to have a Jackie Robinson tribute be the signature of the Mets new home stadium? And the answer, in my opinion, is no. Whether or not the Dodgers are a more appropriate team, a featuring a Brooklyn Dodger as the centerpiece of the new home of the New York Mets is, at best, awkward. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:37 PM ="HahnSolo":3e4tnjsm]Those busts at Shea fit into a display that was smaller than your average walk-in closet.[/quote:3e4tnjsm] Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 01:43 PM Would it make more sense for a statue of Connie Mack to be in Philadelphia or Oakland? Should Walter Johnson be honored in Washington, or in Minneapolis? My votes would go to Philadelphia and Washington. So I think it's more appropriate to honor Jackie Robinson in New York than in Los Angeles. But I think the big rotunda at the Mets ballpark is a bit much. Were it up to me, Citi Field would not look like Ebbets Field. It wouldn't be retro at all. And there would be a nice big memorial to Jackie Robinson in Brooklyn somewhere. Maybe somewhere near the anchorage of the Brooklyn Bridge, so that people could walk there from Manhattan. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 01:48 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 16 2009 04:33 PM What should be noted as part of the rotunda display is that --- as good as he was at baseball, football, and track --- his best sport might have been underwear basketball. Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, that might have been my best sport also. Swan Swan H Apr 16 2009 01:52 PM Michael Jordan's Hanes ads are clearly a tribute to Jackie Robinson's underwear basketball career. Frayed Knot Apr 16 2009 01:53 PM ="Centerfield"]Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. ... and he can not lie. ]Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, [underwear basketball] might have been my best sport also. TMI Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:04 PM Who farted? Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:06 PM ="G-Fafif":1e8206y9]="metsguyinmichigan":1e8206y9]This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, then I'm OK with that. [...] Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well.[/quote:1e8206y9] I never thought the busts were optimal, but if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em. I love that, as you pointed out, Cleon the elder is portrayed whereas all the other Famers are in their prime. I like trying to figure out why; I don't necessarily need to know. Add the Baltimore museum, opened a few years ago next to Camden Yards, as something to be studied by the Mets and attended by anybody in the neighborhood.[/quote:1e8206y9] I am a big fan of busts. HahnSolo Apr 17 2009 06:56 AM After my first trip to Citi and the rotunda, my feelings have somewhat changed. I was never a big fan of the entire rotunda being dedicated to Jackie. however, having seen it up close, it is done in a quite classy way, and it is completely un-intrusive. You are not clubbed over the head with Jackie, Jackie, Jackie. It's there, yes, and it is prominent, but you can just as easily avoid it. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 08:42 AM I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles. themetfairy Apr 17 2009 09:17 AM ="seawolf17":38irfm09]I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles.[/quote:38irfm09] But way less slimy than the MFY's version. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 11:46 AM Have you met him? Don't count out his sliminess. We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. PiggiesTomatoes Apr 17 2009 04:53 PM ="seawolf17"]We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. A Geneseo guy? cooby Apr 17 2009 09:48 PM Funny, all of it. Kong76 Apr 17 2009 09:52 PM FK: OK who (besides me) read that as thongs so large that they need the blue rope ... ? <<< I thought it was a typo too. G-Fafif Apr 17 2009 10:10 PM It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel. MFS62 Apr 18 2009 06:56 AM ="G-Fafif":3jk8wpwh]It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel.[/quote:3jk8wpwh] Don't start getting all sweet on us when this thread was going in an entirely different direction. Later

="metsguyinmichigan":224d4oqf]This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, then I'm OK with that. [...] Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well.[/quote:224d4oqf] I never thought the busts were optimal, but if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em. I love that, as you pointed out, Cleon the elder is portrayed whereas all the other Famers are in their prime. I like trying to figure out why; I don't necessarily need to know. Add the Baltimore museum, opened a few years ago next to Camden Yards, as something to be studied by the Mets and attended by anybody in the neighborhood. G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 01:09 PM ="Edgy DC":1s2trfoy]My main HoF problem was that, in the post-doubleheader era, ceremonies have occurred before game time with the seats scarcely populated. I distinctly remembered being embarassed by the paucity of audience for Jerry Koosman's induction, which may have been Rube Walker's last time on the field.[/quote:1s2trfoy] Since 2000, whenever they do a big event, like '06 reunion or All-Amazin' Team or Ralph Night, they move it back to the start time on the ticket. That way people are indeed in their seats. They didn't do it in '02 for Agee's induction and it was a little depressing. You might recall Seaver criticized Valentine mightily for not having his team in the dugout (they were having a meeting that saved their season, thus that 2002 pennant that flies high and proud over Citi Field). Seaver was correct. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:34 PM Jackie Robinson played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. They are the only team for which a tribute to Jackie would be a perfect fit. Unfortunately, that team doesn't exist anymore. It sucks, but it's reality. Sometimes there are no good answers. The Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Mets are probably the best options left. Arguments can be given for each team, but for every argument, there is a valid argument against. If I had to choose one of the two, I'd probably say the Dodgers are more appropriate. But I don't feel strongly one way or the other. Which brings us to the rotunda. Does it make sense to have a Jackie Robinson tribute be the signature of the Mets new home stadium? And the answer, in my opinion, is no. Whether or not the Dodgers are a more appropriate team, a featuring a Brooklyn Dodger as the centerpiece of the new home of the New York Mets is, at best, awkward. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:37 PM ="HahnSolo":3e4tnjsm]Those busts at Shea fit into a display that was smaller than your average walk-in closet.[/quote:3e4tnjsm] Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 01:43 PM Would it make more sense for a statue of Connie Mack to be in Philadelphia or Oakland? Should Walter Johnson be honored in Washington, or in Minneapolis? My votes would go to Philadelphia and Washington. So I think it's more appropriate to honor Jackie Robinson in New York than in Los Angeles. But I think the big rotunda at the Mets ballpark is a bit much. Were it up to me, Citi Field would not look like Ebbets Field. It wouldn't be retro at all. And there would be a nice big memorial to Jackie Robinson in Brooklyn somewhere. Maybe somewhere near the anchorage of the Brooklyn Bridge, so that people could walk there from Manhattan. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 01:48 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 16 2009 04:33 PM What should be noted as part of the rotunda display is that --- as good as he was at baseball, football, and track --- his best sport might have been underwear basketball. Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, that might have been my best sport also. Swan Swan H Apr 16 2009 01:52 PM Michael Jordan's Hanes ads are clearly a tribute to Jackie Robinson's underwear basketball career. Frayed Knot Apr 16 2009 01:53 PM ="Centerfield"]Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. ... and he can not lie. ]Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, [underwear basketball] might have been my best sport also. TMI Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:04 PM Who farted? Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:06 PM ="G-Fafif":1e8206y9]="metsguyinmichigan":1e8206y9]This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, then I'm OK with that. [...] Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well.[/quote:1e8206y9] I never thought the busts were optimal, but if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em. I love that, as you pointed out, Cleon the elder is portrayed whereas all the other Famers are in their prime. I like trying to figure out why; I don't necessarily need to know. Add the Baltimore museum, opened a few years ago next to Camden Yards, as something to be studied by the Mets and attended by anybody in the neighborhood.[/quote:1e8206y9] I am a big fan of busts. HahnSolo Apr 17 2009 06:56 AM After my first trip to Citi and the rotunda, my feelings have somewhat changed. I was never a big fan of the entire rotunda being dedicated to Jackie. however, having seen it up close, it is done in a quite classy way, and it is completely un-intrusive. You are not clubbed over the head with Jackie, Jackie, Jackie. It's there, yes, and it is prominent, but you can just as easily avoid it. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 08:42 AM I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles. themetfairy Apr 17 2009 09:17 AM ="seawolf17":38irfm09]I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles.[/quote:38irfm09] But way less slimy than the MFY's version. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 11:46 AM Have you met him? Don't count out his sliminess. We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. PiggiesTomatoes Apr 17 2009 04:53 PM ="seawolf17"]We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. A Geneseo guy? cooby Apr 17 2009 09:48 PM Funny, all of it. Kong76 Apr 17 2009 09:52 PM FK: OK who (besides me) read that as thongs so large that they need the blue rope ... ? <<< I thought it was a typo too. G-Fafif Apr 17 2009 10:10 PM It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel. MFS62 Apr 18 2009 06:56 AM ="G-Fafif":3jk8wpwh]It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel.[/quote:3jk8wpwh] Don't start getting all sweet on us when this thread was going in an entirely different direction. Later

="seawolf17":2pflv7ph]Word on the street is that YSIII has a wall of autographed baseballs from as many living MFYs as they could find. I think that's a phenomenal idea, and I wish the Mets had thought of it first.[/quote:2pflv7ph] Saw it on the YEECH pregame show and, yeah, it's a brilliant idea beautifully executed. They're even summoning family members and whoever they can find to rustle up balls for the departed MFYs. On the other hand, the Mets would appreciate it if you'd stop thinking about Brian Ostrosser while enjoying your world-class Citi Field experience. G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 01:07 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":224d4oqf]This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, then I'm OK with that. [...] Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well.[/quote:224d4oqf] I never thought the busts were optimal, but if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em. I love that, as you pointed out, Cleon the elder is portrayed whereas all the other Famers are in their prime. I like trying to figure out why; I don't necessarily need to know. Add the Baltimore museum, opened a few years ago next to Camden Yards, as something to be studied by the Mets and attended by anybody in the neighborhood. G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 01:09 PM ="Edgy DC":1s2trfoy]My main HoF problem was that, in the post-doubleheader era, ceremonies have occurred before game time with the seats scarcely populated. I distinctly remembered being embarassed by the paucity of audience for Jerry Koosman's induction, which may have been Rube Walker's last time on the field.[/quote:1s2trfoy] Since 2000, whenever they do a big event, like '06 reunion or All-Amazin' Team or Ralph Night, they move it back to the start time on the ticket. That way people are indeed in their seats. They didn't do it in '02 for Agee's induction and it was a little depressing. You might recall Seaver criticized Valentine mightily for not having his team in the dugout (they were having a meeting that saved their season, thus that 2002 pennant that flies high and proud over Citi Field). Seaver was correct. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:34 PM Jackie Robinson played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. They are the only team for which a tribute to Jackie would be a perfect fit. Unfortunately, that team doesn't exist anymore. It sucks, but it's reality. Sometimes there are no good answers. The Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Mets are probably the best options left. Arguments can be given for each team, but for every argument, there is a valid argument against. If I had to choose one of the two, I'd probably say the Dodgers are more appropriate. But I don't feel strongly one way or the other. Which brings us to the rotunda. Does it make sense to have a Jackie Robinson tribute be the signature of the Mets new home stadium? And the answer, in my opinion, is no. Whether or not the Dodgers are a more appropriate team, a featuring a Brooklyn Dodger as the centerpiece of the new home of the New York Mets is, at best, awkward. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:37 PM ="HahnSolo":3e4tnjsm]Those busts at Shea fit into a display that was smaller than your average walk-in closet.[/quote:3e4tnjsm] Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 01:43 PM Would it make more sense for a statue of Connie Mack to be in Philadelphia or Oakland? Should Walter Johnson be honored in Washington, or in Minneapolis? My votes would go to Philadelphia and Washington. So I think it's more appropriate to honor Jackie Robinson in New York than in Los Angeles. But I think the big rotunda at the Mets ballpark is a bit much. Were it up to me, Citi Field would not look like Ebbets Field. It wouldn't be retro at all. And there would be a nice big memorial to Jackie Robinson in Brooklyn somewhere. Maybe somewhere near the anchorage of the Brooklyn Bridge, so that people could walk there from Manhattan. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 01:48 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 16 2009 04:33 PM What should be noted as part of the rotunda display is that --- as good as he was at baseball, football, and track --- his best sport might have been underwear basketball. Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, that might have been my best sport also. Swan Swan H Apr 16 2009 01:52 PM Michael Jordan's Hanes ads are clearly a tribute to Jackie Robinson's underwear basketball career. Frayed Knot Apr 16 2009 01:53 PM ="Centerfield"]Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. ... and he can not lie. ]Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, [underwear basketball] might have been my best sport also. TMI Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:04 PM Who farted? Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:06 PM ="G-Fafif":1e8206y9]="metsguyinmichigan":1e8206y9]This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, then I'm OK with that. [...] Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well.[/quote:1e8206y9] I never thought the busts were optimal, but if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em. I love that, as you pointed out, Cleon the elder is portrayed whereas all the other Famers are in their prime. I like trying to figure out why; I don't necessarily need to know. Add the Baltimore museum, opened a few years ago next to Camden Yards, as something to be studied by the Mets and attended by anybody in the neighborhood.[/quote:1e8206y9] I am a big fan of busts. HahnSolo Apr 17 2009 06:56 AM After my first trip to Citi and the rotunda, my feelings have somewhat changed. I was never a big fan of the entire rotunda being dedicated to Jackie. however, having seen it up close, it is done in a quite classy way, and it is completely un-intrusive. You are not clubbed over the head with Jackie, Jackie, Jackie. It's there, yes, and it is prominent, but you can just as easily avoid it. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 08:42 AM I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles. themetfairy Apr 17 2009 09:17 AM ="seawolf17":38irfm09]I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles.[/quote:38irfm09] But way less slimy than the MFY's version. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 11:46 AM Have you met him? Don't count out his sliminess. We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. PiggiesTomatoes Apr 17 2009 04:53 PM ="seawolf17"]We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. A Geneseo guy? cooby Apr 17 2009 09:48 PM Funny, all of it. Kong76 Apr 17 2009 09:52 PM FK: OK who (besides me) read that as thongs so large that they need the blue rope ... ? <<< I thought it was a typo too. G-Fafif Apr 17 2009 10:10 PM It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel. MFS62 Apr 18 2009 06:56 AM ="G-Fafif":3jk8wpwh]It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel.[/quote:3jk8wpwh] Don't start getting all sweet on us when this thread was going in an entirely different direction. Later

Sometimes I'm surprised they had room for the actual Mets.

I'm calling it Shea out of habit but not intent. Too long for a t-shirt. Shea was Shea. This is this. Let it grow into its own self. Could use a better name, but I'll go with the one above the front door until its repossessed.

="Edgy DC":uaz5b2d8]="G-Fafif":uaz5b2d8]Rachel Robinson, Jackie's widow, said she didn't spend a lot of time at the Ebbets Field rotunda. It wasn't the time or place where they would hold a meet-and-greet for the Robinsons. She would go right to her seat, where she heard the worst the fans could verbally hurl at her husband.[/quote:uaz5b2d8] Was Robinson regularly abused with "the worst" at Ebbets field?[/quote:uaz5b2d8] When did Ebbets Field move to Cincinnati, St. Louis and Philadelphia? Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 07:57 AM Well, if it could move to Queens... Frayed Knot Apr 16 2009 08:05 AM ] ... we don't have room to do busts like we did before Because lord knows how much room those things take up. Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 08:08 AM So what's happening to the busts? Is MeiGray selling them? Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 08:10 AM I'm planning another night raid. batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2009 08:21 AM ="Frayed Knot"]] ... we don't have room to do busts like we did before Because lord knows how much room those things take up. I thought that quote was disturbing, myself. If there's no room for busts, then there can't be much room for a Mets HOF done right. It's Hot dogs over History. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 08:27 AM How about here: HahnSolo Apr 16 2009 08:27 AM What makes being a Met fan who wants honors, monuments, and tributes to his team in their stadium "short-sighted"? HahnSolo Apr 16 2009 08:29 AM Those busts at Shea fit into a display that was smaller than your average walk-in closet. batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2009 08:31 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3fm5ql4w]Yes, the Giants and Dodgers are in California now, but Mel Ott, Christy Mathewson, John McGraw, Bill Terry, Pee Wee Reese, Jackie Robinson, Wilbert Robinson, Zach Wheat and all those other guys still belong to New York.[/quote:3fm5ql4w] One of the flaws in this otherwise valid point is that the NY Giant fans probably hated the B'klyn Dodgers -- even more than we might hate the MFY's, given that the old NY rivals played each other 18 times a season. Ironically, if not fittingly, I seem to be in the minority on this one, though. HahnSolo Apr 16 2009 08:31 AM ="Edgy DC":3kwmr6o7]How about here: [/quote:3kwmr6o7] Are the throngs so large at Touch that they need the blue rope to keep people in line? Well, at least the cord is blue. batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2009 08:34 AM ="HahnSolo":3dt3qv7d]Those busts at Shea fit into a display that was smaller than your average walk-in closet.[/quote:3dt3qv7d] They probably don't want to "waste" the real estate on something that won't generate additional income. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 08:38 AM ="HahnSolo":2hnipag0]="Edgy DC":2hnipag0]How about here: [/quote:2hnipag0] Are the throngs so large at Touch that they need the blue rope to keep people in line? Well, at least the cord is blue.[/quote:2hnipag0] I like how Alyssa's target audience --- dyed hair, perm, tight jeans --- is walking by without turning her head, while dorkus from New Yorkus in his backward cap/ski-cap/yarmulke is wandering in to check out the insignia thongs. Hopefully, the boutique won't last the season. seawolf17 Apr 16 2009 08:51 AM "WE DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR THE BUSTS?!?!??" Are you effing kidding me, Jeff? Screw you! You built a whole goddam building and you can't find room to honor your own Hall of Fame busts? No wonder Wally Matthews hates this team. ="HahnSolo":3ngiw1aa]What makes being a Met fan who wants honors, monuments, and tributes to his team in their stadium "short-sighted"?[/quote:3ngiw1aa] Exactly! God, I hate this shit. metirish Apr 16 2009 08:57 AM " We do have room for one bust " Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 09:09 AM This is a work in progress, and Jeff has shown himself to be a reactive manager. Why don't we give him something to react to? G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 10:19 AM Sometimes I'm surprised they had room for the actual Mets. MFS62 Apr 16 2009 10:39 AM ="G-Fafif":3129gw3s]Sometimes I'm surprised they had room for the actual Mets.[/quote:3129gw3s] As long as they were all a different height. Later Frayed Knot Apr 16 2009 10:39 AM ]Are the throngs so large at Touch that they need the blue rope to keep people in line? OK who (besides me) read that as thongs so large that they need the blue rope ... ? metsguyinmichigan Apr 16 2009 11:47 AM This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. Didn't like the style. And I wonder if creating a bust like that was expensive and difficult, and slowed down the number of inductions. And I didn't like that it wasn't readily accessible to a lot of fans. And the writing on the display cases was ugly. I love the idea of a hall of fame, and think there absolutely needs to be one. Cleveland and Philly both have neat areas in centerfield with the kind of plaques that I imagine Jeff is talking about. Lots of people walk through the area, and each plaque tells why the person on it is important. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, [url:3o4t75mg]http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/cle/ballpark/heritage_park.jsp[/url:3o4t75mg] then I'm OK with that. Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well. seawolf17 Apr 16 2009 11:56 AM Word on the street is that YSIII has a wall of autographed baseballs from as many living MFYs as they could find. I think that's a phenomenal idea, and I wish the Mets had thought of it first. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 12:25 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1l6s2tnk]Didn't like the style. And I wonder if creating a bust like that was expensive and difficult, and slowed down the number of inductions.[/quote:1l6s2tnk] I suspect managerial indifference slowed it down, but benign neglect has perhaps been better than misguided engagement. My main HoF problem was that, in the post-doubleheader era, ceremonies have occurred before game time with the seats scarcely populated. I distinctly remembered being embarassed by the paucity of audience for Jerry Koosman's induction, which may have been Rube Walker's last time on the field. G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 01:04 PM ="seawolf17":2pflv7ph]Word on the street is that YSIII has a wall of autographed baseballs from as many living MFYs as they could find. I think that's a phenomenal idea, and I wish the Mets had thought of it first.[/quote:2pflv7ph] Saw it on the YEECH pregame show and, yeah, it's a brilliant idea beautifully executed. They're even summoning family members and whoever they can find to rustle up balls for the departed MFYs. On the other hand, the Mets would appreciate it if you'd stop thinking about Brian Ostrosser while enjoying your world-class Citi Field experience. G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 01:07 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":224d4oqf]This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, then I'm OK with that. [...] Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well.[/quote:224d4oqf] I never thought the busts were optimal, but if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em. I love that, as you pointed out, Cleon the elder is portrayed whereas all the other Famers are in their prime. I like trying to figure out why; I don't necessarily need to know. Add the Baltimore museum, opened a few years ago next to Camden Yards, as something to be studied by the Mets and attended by anybody in the neighborhood. G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 01:09 PM ="Edgy DC":1s2trfoy]My main HoF problem was that, in the post-doubleheader era, ceremonies have occurred before game time with the seats scarcely populated. I distinctly remembered being embarassed by the paucity of audience for Jerry Koosman's induction, which may have been Rube Walker's last time on the field.[/quote:1s2trfoy] Since 2000, whenever they do a big event, like '06 reunion or All-Amazin' Team or Ralph Night, they move it back to the start time on the ticket. That way people are indeed in their seats. They didn't do it in '02 for Agee's induction and it was a little depressing. You might recall Seaver criticized Valentine mightily for not having his team in the dugout (they were having a meeting that saved their season, thus that 2002 pennant that flies high and proud over Citi Field). Seaver was correct. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:34 PM Jackie Robinson played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. They are the only team for which a tribute to Jackie would be a perfect fit. Unfortunately, that team doesn't exist anymore. It sucks, but it's reality. Sometimes there are no good answers. The Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Mets are probably the best options left. Arguments can be given for each team, but for every argument, there is a valid argument against. If I had to choose one of the two, I'd probably say the Dodgers are more appropriate. But I don't feel strongly one way or the other. Which brings us to the rotunda. Does it make sense to have a Jackie Robinson tribute be the signature of the Mets new home stadium? And the answer, in my opinion, is no. Whether or not the Dodgers are a more appropriate team, a featuring a Brooklyn Dodger as the centerpiece of the new home of the New York Mets is, at best, awkward. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:37 PM ="HahnSolo":3e4tnjsm]Those busts at Shea fit into a display that was smaller than your average walk-in closet.[/quote:3e4tnjsm] Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 01:43 PM Would it make more sense for a statue of Connie Mack to be in Philadelphia or Oakland? Should Walter Johnson be honored in Washington, or in Minneapolis? My votes would go to Philadelphia and Washington. So I think it's more appropriate to honor Jackie Robinson in New York than in Los Angeles. But I think the big rotunda at the Mets ballpark is a bit much. Were it up to me, Citi Field would not look like Ebbets Field. It wouldn't be retro at all. And there would be a nice big memorial to Jackie Robinson in Brooklyn somewhere. Maybe somewhere near the anchorage of the Brooklyn Bridge, so that people could walk there from Manhattan. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 01:48 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 16 2009 04:33 PM What should be noted as part of the rotunda display is that --- as good as he was at baseball, football, and track --- his best sport might have been underwear basketball. Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, that might have been my best sport also. Swan Swan H Apr 16 2009 01:52 PM Michael Jordan's Hanes ads are clearly a tribute to Jackie Robinson's underwear basketball career. Frayed Knot Apr 16 2009 01:53 PM ="Centerfield"]Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. ... and he can not lie. ]Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, [underwear basketball] might have been my best sport also. TMI Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:04 PM Who farted? Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:06 PM ="G-Fafif":1e8206y9]="metsguyinmichigan":1e8206y9]This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, then I'm OK with that. [...] Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well.[/quote:1e8206y9] I never thought the busts were optimal, but if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em. I love that, as you pointed out, Cleon the elder is portrayed whereas all the other Famers are in their prime. I like trying to figure out why; I don't necessarily need to know. Add the Baltimore museum, opened a few years ago next to Camden Yards, as something to be studied by the Mets and attended by anybody in the neighborhood.[/quote:1e8206y9] I am a big fan of busts. HahnSolo Apr 17 2009 06:56 AM After my first trip to Citi and the rotunda, my feelings have somewhat changed. I was never a big fan of the entire rotunda being dedicated to Jackie. however, having seen it up close, it is done in a quite classy way, and it is completely un-intrusive. You are not clubbed over the head with Jackie, Jackie, Jackie. It's there, yes, and it is prominent, but you can just as easily avoid it. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 08:42 AM I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles. themetfairy Apr 17 2009 09:17 AM ="seawolf17":38irfm09]I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles.[/quote:38irfm09] But way less slimy than the MFY's version. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 11:46 AM Have you met him? Don't count out his sliminess. We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. PiggiesTomatoes Apr 17 2009 04:53 PM ="seawolf17"]We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. A Geneseo guy? cooby Apr 17 2009 09:48 PM Funny, all of it. Kong76 Apr 17 2009 09:52 PM FK: OK who (besides me) read that as thongs so large that they need the blue rope ... ? <<< I thought it was a typo too. G-Fafif Apr 17 2009 10:10 PM It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel. MFS62 Apr 18 2009 06:56 AM ="G-Fafif":3jk8wpwh]It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel.[/quote:3jk8wpwh] Don't start getting all sweet on us when this thread was going in an entirely different direction. Later

Tim Smith, in the Snooze, praises the Rotunda, says in essence that no, you can't have both the Jackie salute and Mets history. You get the former, stop complaining about the latter, you small-minded Mets fans. Jeff Wilpon is Viva Las Vague herein. (How do you build a new ballpark and decide "no room for busts," and I hope he means Luis Castillo.) ]Mets and Citi Field do right by saying, 'and here's to you Mr. Robinson' The day after the Mets christened Citi Field their fans decried the lack of team history in the $850 million ballpark. It had a sterile corporate feel, they said. Where was the homage to World Series victories? Where were the tributes to past Met greats? All those complaints rang hollow Wednesday as the team dedicated the Jackie Robinson Rotunda on the day that Robinson broke Major League Baseball's color barrier 62 years ago. The rotunda is a replica of the one at Ebbets Field, where Robinson played for the Dodgers, and is four times as big. Rachel Robinson, Jackie's widow, said she didn't spend a lot of time at the Ebbets Field rotunda. It wasn't the time or place where they would hold a meet-and-greet for the Robinsons. She would go right to her seat, where she heard the worst the fans could verbally hurl at her husband. Walking into the Jackie Robinson Rotunda Wednesday afternoon was a near religious experience for Mrs. Robinson. "It's kind of a spiritual thing," she said. "It's like being at St. John's Cathedral in Rome. I was so moved. I don't think everybody will feel that way." Certainly not those short-sighted fans who want monuments to past Mets glory in place pronto. The Mets are to be commended for conceiving and constructing the Jackie Robinson Rotunda, which extols the nine virtues that Robinson lived by: Justice, teamwork, determination, persistence, courage, excellence, citizenship, commitment and integrity. In the modern game, as in much of modern life, those virtues seem outdated. Director Spike Lee, who attended the dedication ceremony, said Robinson's legacy remains as significant today as it did when he stepped onto Ebbets Field 62 years ago, enduring the crushing social pressure and still succeeding. "Jackie and Branch Rickey knew if they were not successful in this so-called race experiment that this would set African-Americans back 10-15 years no matter what field we're talking about," Lee said. "We're talking about in all fields - science, politics, not just sports." It is hard for modern-day players to even imagine what Robinson endured to play baseball. "I can't believe he went through that kind of stuff (racists taunts)," said Jose Reyes. "It's just crazy to me. But it just shows how strong he was in mind to go through it and still play." Reyes said he has not visited the rotunda yet, but he said he has always drawn inspiration from Robinson. "Just to see the way that he played the game, the fact that he never gave up and he was always working hard," Reyes said. "He showed that you can never hang your head, and that you have to be strong every day." Fred Wilpon, the Mets chairman and CEO, was 16 when he played a game at Ebbets Field, and those nine virtues that Robinson espoused were alive inside the clubhouse. The Mets are the closest touchstone to Jackie Robinson (the National League replacement in New York for the departed Dodgers and Giants), so Wilpon knew he wanted to honor Robinson when they decided to build a new ballpark, particularly if the new place would include elements of Ebbets Field. Jeff Wilpon, the Mets' COO, said Mets fans who desire a more grand tribute to former Mets greats will get their wish soon. "We have some banners that will go up. We have some plaques that will go up," Jeff Wilpon said. "We have some retired numbers. We don't have room to do busts like we did before, but we're going to do some Hall of Fame plaques. We have some other things that we're going to do." Fred Wilpon said the Jackie Robinson Rotunda doesn't trump anything that the Mets will do in the future to honor their own history, but he believes the rotunda is a significant symbol in its own right. He's absolutely correct. By displaying the virtues on the walls and floor of the rotunda, baseball fans who enter Citi Field will at least be reminded that Robinson lived by them, and by smashing Major League Baseball's color barrier, he forced the sport, and America, to live by them as well. Baseball isn't such a virtuous place right now. It is still trying to come to grips with the blight of steroids and the taint of street agents and scouts skimming the signing bonuses of some Dominican players. And for the first time since 1995, there was an increase (2%) in the number of African-American players on major league rosters this season, according to a report released yesterday by Richard Lapchick, director of the University of Central Florida's Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sports. "I feel encouraged. It's not a huge leap, but a step forward," said Rachel Robinson. "We have to feel encouraged, also inspired by the progress." The Mets have an African-American manager, Jerry Manuel, and just one African-American player, Gary Sheffield, who was starting his first game in right field Wednesday night and was looking for his 500th home run. The Mets don't yet have an homage to their history as grand and glorious as the Yankees in their new home. But they have done them one better by creating a permanent monument to the legacy of Jackie Robinson. "By doing this, the permanence of this, this is not a traveling exhibition at a museum, this is a welcoming mat that he should have had back in the day when he came into baseball," said Jeff Wilpon.

Derek Jeter drove in the winning run yesterday, thus Newsday frames him (wearing the same number as everybody else yesterday) as Just Like Jackie. I guess there's some legitimacy in that comparison. Jeter, after all, did break the boring barrier.

="SteveJRogers"]or worse throw up someone who never played for the Mets (curiously, at lunch today Whatever the original point of this message, the idea of throwing up someone who never played for the Mets, at lunch, would have to be worse. Particularly with Jerry Coleman in town and Rich Folkers having played for the Mets.