Benjamin Grimm

Why is (a) so outrageously unlikely? It it worth spending $2.7 million in order to get two draft picks? I wouldn't think so. I'd place him on the irrevocable waivers and try to save the $2.7 million. I assume that Wagner would still be able to reject the move, though? But on the chance that he'd get claimed by a team that he prefers to Boston, I'd give it a try.

Well, to be fair, Namor isn't pinning specific injuries to the medical staff. The Mets should, I think, bring in a third party to review the decisions made, both by the doctors and the people who are supposed to listen to the doctors, and see if the team was well served this year, and was just unlucky, or if there's something more. It's easy to say FIRE THEM ALL, and it's also easy to say that that's an overreaction. But it's also possible that somebody should be fired. A season-end review is certainly in order.

Holy crap. I was blissfully ignorant of this. Until now, of course.

Yeah, whatever his 'demands' might be, hopefully he'll give in a bit in order to get himself onto a contending team.

Wagner has leverage because he has a no-trade clause in his contract.

="metirish":2gf3l66x]Just me but no loss this past month and more warrants being in this thread , nothing surprises , nothing even hurts anymore......it's nothingness .[/quote:2gf3l66x] I agree. The losses are worse (and the wins are better) when the games aren't meaningless. metsmarathon Aug 24 2009 08:10 AM i'm really not sure if the circumstances surrounding last night's game warrant its inclusion in this thread. i feel its much more of a tip-your-cap kind of loss. this was a different kind of loss than the luis castillo popup. a very different animal. this was no blown save, no missed third base. if the roles had been reversed - the phils down two, two men on, no outs, top nine - they send the runners, castillo moves over to cover the bag, and gets a screaming liner hit right at him... that pops out of his glove as he prematurely looks down to step on the bag for the second out, and subsequently allows both runners to score - well, then it would belong in this thread. history jumped up and bit us on the ass. c'est la vie, i guess... LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 24 2009 09:13 AM ="metsmarathon"]i'm really not sure if the circumstances surrounding last night's game warrant its inclusion in this thread. i feel its much more of a tip-your-cap kind of loss. this was a different kind of loss than the luis castillo popup. a very different animal. this was no blown save, no missed third base. if the roles had been reversed - the phils down two, two men on, no outs, top nine - they send the runners, castillo moves over to cover the bag, and gets a screaming liner hit right at him... that pops out of his glove as he prematurely looks down to step on the bag for the second out, and subsequently allows both runners to score - well, then it would belong in this thread. history jumped up and bit us on the ass. c'est la vie, i guess... Fair point. And I'd be lying if I said this killed me as much as even the Pittsburgh game from June. These games don't sting anymore. But on a lazy Sunday, driving back from southern NJ, Howie and Whatshisface dragged me back somewhat in for a day. Plus, losing to Philly when you've got a legitimate shot at the end that didn't seem at all possible an hour earlier... doesn't it ache something fierce? (Spoiling the Phils is about the only thing I'm really hoping for, Mets-wise, for the season's remainder. Hate is all I have left.) metsmarathon Aug 24 2009 10:08 AM it does. but this is an ache i can live with - an 'oh well, you got me' kind of ache. like when your pitcher puts his pitch right were he wanted to, and the batter still manages to push a soft fly ball into short right field. you do your best, and if they beat you they beat you. its like that pitch vlad hit a week or so ago that actually bounced in front of home plate - i mean, what are you going to do there but say, "damn, he got me there"? dgwphotography Aug 24 2009 01:58 PM ="metsmarathon":1snick2b]history jumped up and bit us on the ass. [/quote:1snick2b] Your 2009 marketing slogan. Edgy DC Aug 24 2009 02:00 PM Well, something has to be 10th. metsmarathon Aug 25 2009 08:22 AM i'm gonna wander out on a limb and suggest that johan santana might well be the worst loss of 2009...

This was Sheffield's third win of the year. The previous two were on June 26 and June 29. This is the first time he was the POTG in a game that the Mets won.

VOTING FOR THIS GAME IS NOW CLOSED Totals for August 20, 2009 (7 votes) Atlanta Braves 3, New York Mets 2 NameTotal PointsPoints AwardedPlayer PerformanceJohan Santana23.003.29(L) 7.0 IP, 9 H, 3 ER, 0 BB, 2 SO.Cory Sullivan7.531.081-2, RBI, BB.Luis Castillo7.421.062-4, R, BB, SO.Omir Santos6.260.891-1, RBI.Billy Wagner6.020.861.0 IP, 0 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 SO.Francisco Rodriguez3.700.531.0 IP, 0 H, 0 ER, 2 BB, 0 SO.Jeff Francoeur3.570.511-4, R, 2B, SO.Fernando Tatis0.300.041-3, 2B, BB.

VOTING FOR THIS GAME IS NOW CLOSED Totals for August 19, 2009 (9 votes) Atlanta Braves 15, New York Mets 2 NameTotal PointsPoints AwardedPlayer PerformanceDaniel Murphy11.911.322-4, 2B, 3B.Angel Pagan8.961.001-4, 2B, RBI, BB, 2 SO.Wilson Valdez8.690.972-4, 2 R, SO.Luis Castillo8.360.932-2, RBI.Omir Santos0.500.061-3, BB.Fernando Tatis0.250.031-4, SO.Andy Green0.250.031-2.Sean Green0.080.011.0 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 2 SO.

VOTING FOR THIS GAME IS NOW CLOSED Totals for August 18, 2009 (8 votes) New York Mets 9, Atlanta Braves 4 NameTotal PointsPoints AwardedPlayer PerformanceGary Sheffield14.771.853-5, R, 2 2B, 2 RBI, SO.Luis Castillo14.111.763-5, R, 2 RBI, SO.Jeff Francoeur13.471.683-5, 2 R, 2 2B, RBI, SO.Oliver Perez7.650.96(W) 5.0 IP, 5 H, 4 ER, 1 BB, 4 SO.Omir Santos7.010.882-4, R, RBI.Fernando Tatis6.450.812-4, R, RBI, SO.Elmer Dessens5.060.632.0 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 SO.Anderson Hernandez4.170.521-3, R, RBI, BB.Angel Pagan2.950.371-5, 2 R, RBI, SB.Brian Stokes2.180.271.0 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 1 SO.Pedro Feliciano2.180.271.0 IP, 0 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 1 SO.

Pagan 3 Misch 2 Castillo 2 Murphy 2 Francoeur 0.34 Sullivan 0.33 Dessens 0.33

Pelfrey 3.2 Feliciano 0.5 Stokes 0.7 Rodriguez 0.7 Francoeur 1.4 Santos 0.75 Murphy 1 Tatis 1 Pagan 0.75

I thought he had cleared waivers. (I guess I was wrong.) Sucks if there's only one team that they can trade him to. Doesn't give the Mets much leverage in getting the best possible player in return. Well, I guess it gives them some. The other team may need Billy Wagner more than the Mets need the prospect. But that other team may not need a reliever but is just trying to keep the competition from getting him.

I was going to comment on his age. At 22, is he older than most of the rest of the FSL? (I'm not saying he is, I'm just asking.) If he is, that could make his numbers a little less impressive.

I think I'd consider taking a chance and offering arbitration. Even if he accepts, his arbitration-awarded contract wouldn't have a no-trade, right? And he's not 5-and-10 yet.

And I'd bring him back with a role matching the expectations that were had for him in 2009; a pinch-hitter, fourth/fifth outfielder. Not as a starting regular left fielder.

And that reminds me... When I was in college, I had a friend who was flirting with this girl, and it seemed to be going pretty well, when for no explicable reason, he told her, "I have a five-year-old son named Otis." (He didn't.) She visibly lost interest in him. So he frantically told her that it was just a joke, that he didn't really have a son named Otis. But it was too late. She either figured that he was suddenly denying his little boy's existence, or he was some kind of a nut who makes up fictional kids named Otis to impress girls. (I guess the second part was actually true.) Note to you single guys out there: The fictional-son-named-Otis line... not a good idea.

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]I wouldn't mind seeing a cheap, lefty-mashing running mate next campaign. Would Trot Nixon be an appropriate running mate for someone named Ike? Or should we dust off Otis Nixon?

I wouldn't call him Joe McEwing either. (It would get confusing, since that's not his name.) But I think that's the best way to use him, for 2010, at least, until he proves that he deserves a regular position. Find eight other guys to man the starting positions, and keep Murphy around as a super-sub, one who will play often enough to get 250 to 300 at bats. Give him the chance to prove that he can do more, without counting on him to do more. If he's anointed the Mets starting 1B this winter, it will be a pretty discouraging sign.

Maybe it's because Murphy looked really good late last season, and we still want him to be the guy that it looked like he might be. And part of it is we're probably paying less attention this season, when he's not doing so great, than we did last year, when the games mattered more and he was looking good. I don't want to give up on him yet, but I also don't think the Mets should pencil him in as the answer at any one position next year. And especially not at a high-offense position like first base. Keep him around. Make him a Joe McEwing. And if he proves that he can be more than that, then reevaluate.

Santana 4 Wagner 1 Rodriguez 1 Castillo 1 Francoeur 1 Santos 1 Sullivan 1

="Valadius":24zfrgcb]Where the hell is the forward slash? These Italian keyboards are VERY strange.[/quote:24zfrgcb] I had trouble checking my e-mail from Germany. I couldn't find out out to type the @. I ended up doing a web search on "at sign", finding the symbol in the results, and then copying and pasting. Nymr83 Aug 20 2009 05:05 PM i had that issue trying to make the section symbol [�], found an online character map to copy from. Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 06:06 PM Two out RBI for Cory Sullivan. How about a hand for our new number-five hitter, ladies and gents? Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 06:56 PM Not a lot of non-Sheff content left in this thread. Mets down 3-1 going into the seventh. Frayed Knot Aug 20 2009 06:58 PM Well, Santana can't get out a lefty and the Mets can't get a hit w/RiSP. Other than that things are going just fuckin' swell. Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 07:07 PM I think I just heard a nice ovation for Billy Wagner getting up in the pen. Do people at Citi know when somebody is up in the pen? Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 07:10 PM "Enter No-Man's-LandMan" John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 20 2009 07:11 PM ="Edgy DC":1l2qqos1]I think I just heard a nice ovation for Billy Wagner getting up in the pen.[/quote:1l2qqos1] That was actually booing you heard, and it was from me, and I'm in Brooklyn. Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 07:13 PM K I'll take what I can get. bmfc1 Aug 20 2009 07:16 PM Wow. Was that Billy Wagner's final inning as a Met? John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 20 2009 07:17 PM Yeah, thanks for all your help, Wags. Now, beat it. Kong76 Aug 20 2009 07:24 PM Not that scouts rely on scoreboard clocks, but 96? Nah, the home team wouldn't bump that up 5 mph to move someone to get some value would they? Kong76 Aug 20 2009 07:29 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 20 2009 07:30 PM Why do people go to Mets' games to chant, "let's go Yankees?" Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 07:30 PM Great, pinch-hit for Schneider, but with who? Livan's gone. PiggiesTomatoes Aug 20 2009 07:35 PM Wow, Livan had an 8.71 ERA in his last eight starts. Fuck, that's horrible. Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 07:39 PM Tying run on second, go-ahead on third, with two outs. Anderson Hernadez up with Andy Green on deck. It's 2-0. Do you give him a green light or a red 'un? Let him hit? So he can possibly get a hit? Well, come on! He's Anderson Hernandez! Of course not! Make him take? Why? So he can possibly walk, and then leave it up to Andy Green? Of course not! These are the sad choices that confront Jerry Manuel --- who chose to let the guy swing --- regularly. Kong76 Aug 20 2009 07:39 PM No starting lineup for the Braves in this IGT ... forum is turning into tweet face i'll pm ya and not postumville. (as I predicted) Nymr83 Aug 20 2009 07:44 PM ="Edgy DC":3060a0oo]Do people at Citi know when somebody is up in the pen?[/quote:3060a0oo] They put it up on the scoreboard at some point, but you need to be paying attention. Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 07:46 PM I promise you that slowness is related to the hopelessness. I'm still posting like a fiend. bmfc1 Aug 20 2009 07:47 PM Mets reporters haven't been posting the opposition lineups. They were earlier in the year. PiggiesTomatoes Aug 20 2009 07:47 PM Frankie in mid-season form with two walks already. Thanks DP. bmfc1 Aug 20 2009 07:49 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 20 2009 07:52 PM moved, as directed Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 07:51 PM Yeah, that's another thread now. Maybe the Giants wouldn't give up any minor leaguer. Maybe they just wanted to keep somebody else away from Sheffield. Edgy DC Aug 20 2009 07:52 PM Hey, Luis, steal second! Then third and home! John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 20 2009 07:52 PM Winning run at the plate. Cmon Muffy. Send me to Project Runway on a high... John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 20 2009 07:54 PM Oh well, we lose another series by playing worse than the other team. I'm dectecting a pattern. OK, Tim Gunn, let's start a new thread, if you know what I mean... PiggiesTomatoes Aug 20 2009 07:55 PM Great at-bat young Daniel. FUCK! Nymr83 Aug 20 2009 07:56 PM Another night, another loss. I hate this team. Kong76 Aug 20 2009 07:58 PM ny83: I hate this team <<< Didn't we do this last night or the night before? See ya tomorrow. Gwreck Aug 20 2009 09:10 PM Braves lineup was Infante 2B Anderson LF Jones 3B McCann C Escobar SS Diaz RF LaRoche 1B Church CF Kawakami P --- Wagner got a nice ovation. They played Sandman and everything. Lots of cheering for his 2 Ks. I always liked Wagner. Pretty much everything else about this game was crappy. Forget just releasing Livan...how about we release Schneider, too? Surely there's an AAA catcher somewhere we could use instead. Or even Cancel. First time I've seen Johan take a loss since Ben Sheets outdueld him in Johan's Shea debut last year. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 20 2009 09:29 PM ="Edgy DC":2slkp9v1]I think I just heard a nice ovation for Billy Wagner getting up in the pen. Do people at Citi know when somebody is up in the pen?[/quote:2slkp9v1] They flashed it on the big board. People around me seemed a little excited that he was throwing and applauded pretty wildly. I joined in, since I'll give it up for a 37-year-old who works his wee, bearded ass off to come back from TJ surgery, and because I didn't want to feel left out. (Then again, there was a wave going around, too. So figure about 1/4 of the cheers were of the "Hey-- it's other humans standing and sitting in series!" variety.) Muggy night. Got into a friendly argument with a chatty stranger on the Danny Heep Bridge about the future of first base-- it really does amaze me how much support Murph still gets among Met fans. (I mean, I'm rooting for the guy too, but... he's OPSing sub-.700 at this point; I'm not sure he's a corner-IF starter for most AAA teams.) OlerudOwned Aug 20 2009 11:14 PM Seeing Wagner pitch so well bummed me out even more about all the injuries. A healthy team with Rodriguez-Putz-Wagner-Feliciano in the late innings would have been something to see. Stupid baseball. Nymr83 Aug 21 2009 12:20 AM in fairness there would have been no Rodriguez (or no Putz) at all if Wagner was healthy all along. ]Then again, there was a wave going around, too i usually either get people to stand up too soon (to help fuck up the wave) or yell "fuck the wave!" as it goes by and i remain seated. i really hate the wave during a game. metirish Aug 21 2009 05:55 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":cqcvmdie]="Edgy DC":cqcvmdie]I think I just heard a nice ovation for Billy Wagner getting up in the pen. Do people at Citi know when somebody is up in the pen?[/quote:cqcvmdie] They flashed it on the big board. People around me seemed a little excited that he was throwing and applauded pretty wildly. I joined in, since I'll give it up for a 37-year-old who works his wee, bearded ass off to come back from TJ surgery, and because I didn't want to feel left out. (Then again, there was a wave going around, too. So figure about 1/4 of the cheers were of the "Hey-- it's other humans standing and sitting in series!" variety.) Muggy night. Got into a friendly argument with a chatty stranger on the Danny Heep Bridge about the future of first base-- it really does amaze me how much support Murph still gets among Met fans. (I mean, I'm rooting for the guy too, but... he's OPSing sub-.700 at this point; I'm not sure he's a corner-IF starter for most AAA teams.)[/quote:cqcvmdie] I thought it was a nice moment.... Gwreck Aug 21 2009 07:49 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":de47vpmo]it really does amaze me how much support Murph still gets among Met fans. (I mean, I'm rooting for the guy too, but... he's OPSing sub-.700 at this point; I'm not sure he's a corner-IF starter for most AAA teams.)[/quote:de47vpmo] We were discussing that last night. Is it because he's a clean-cut white guy? Because he's Irish? Because he's a homegrown player? A little each from categories A, B and C? Because it's certainly not that he's particularly good. Edgy DC Aug 21 2009 07:56 AM But he was some'at last year, so there may be a little bit of D (residual fuzzies from rookie success) in there also. That first pitch popup was so not the solid countworking Murphy I hope I see when he steps out of the dugout, and too rarely is he that guy these days, and maybe never will be. Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2009 07:58 AM Maybe it's because Murphy looked really good late last season, and we still want him to be the guy that it looked like he might be. And part of it is we're probably paying less attention this season, when he's not doing so great, than we did last year, when the games mattered more and he was looking good. I don't want to give up on him yet, but I also don't think the Mets should pencil him in as the answer at any one position next year. And especially not at a high-offense position like first base. Keep him around. Make him a Joe McEwing. And if he proves that he can be more than that, then reevaluate. Gwreck Aug 21 2009 08:20 AM This is where I point out that I think resigning Delgado is our best option for next year if we plan to compete. John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2009 08:29 AM I like Ike. John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2009 08:33 AM ="Edgy DC"] That first pitch popup was so not the solid countworking Murphy I hope I see when he steps out of the dugout, and too rarely is he that guy these days, and maybe never will be. Well, he's mad about it, at least: Edgy DC Aug 21 2009 08:45 AM Other available freegies, with thier 2010 age in parentheses: Russell Branyan (34): .254 / .351 / .515 // .866 (107 g, 33 at first) Jason Giambi (39): .193 / .332 / .364 // .697 (83 g, 38 at first) Ross Gload (34): .263 / .344 / .394 // .738 (93 g, about half on defense, 26 at first) Aubrey Huff (33): .252 / .320 / .400 // .720 (112 g, 93 on defense) Nick Johnson (31, parts of him much older): .296 / .419 / .408 // .827 (111 g, 108 on defense) Adam LaRoche (30): .267 / .354 / .484 // .838 (103 g, all on defense) Robb Quinlan (33): 256 / .287 / .367 // .654 (40 103 gg, 11 at first) Matt Stairs (42!): .213 / .357 / .388 // .745 (16 g, none at first since 2007) Mike Sweeney (36): .228 / .287 / .361 // .648 (49 g, 5 at first) Jim Thome (39): .250 / .380 / .503 // .883 (97 g, none on defense) Chad Tracy (30): .235 / .292 / .380 // .673 (73 g)So, the only ones looking as viable as Delgado are Branyan, Johnson, and LaRoche, with only LaRoche looking particularly more viable. John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2009 08:46 AM Edgy DC Aug 21 2009 08:54 AM Met that up a little bit, market it, and it can pay for Lunchpail's sophomore year at Barnard. TransMonk Aug 21 2009 09:20 AM In Murphy's defense, he is still very inexperienced at the professional level. David Wright had more minor league plate appearances before he was called up to the majors than Murphy has had minor and major league combined. Wright's minor league career: 1675 PA, 1419 AB, 409 H, 111 2B, 48 HR, 242 RBI, 302 K, .288/.387/.474/.861 Murphy's minor+major league career: 1634 PA, 1450 AB, 411 H, 91 2B, 35 HR, 214 RBI, 195 K, .283/.347/.431/.778 Now, I don't believe that Murphy will ever be Wright, but he is still very young and can still progress to better than we've seen this season. I'm not ready to pencil him in at any position either, but I'm not ready to call him Joe McEwing or Matt Franco just yet. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 21 2009 09:28 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Given his hyyyyyyuge split differensh, I wouldn't mind seeing a cheap, lefty-mashing running mate next campaign. Ike/Stick in '10! Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2009 09:29 AM I wouldn't call him Joe McEwing either. (It would get confusing, since that's not his name.) But I think that's the best way to use him, for 2010, at least, until he proves that he deserves a regular position. Find eight other guys to man the starting positions, and keep Murphy around as a super-sub, one who will play often enough to get 250 to 300 at bats. Give him the chance to prove that he can do more, without counting on him to do more. If he's anointed the Mets starting 1B this winter, it will be a pretty discouraging sign. Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2009 09:32 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]I wouldn't mind seeing a cheap, lefty-mashing running mate next campaign. Would Trot Nixon be an appropriate running mate for someone named Ike? Or should we dust off Otis Nixon? Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2009 09:36 AM And that reminds me... When I was in college, I had a friend who was flirting with this girl, and it seemed to be going pretty well, when for no explicable reason, he told her, "I have a five-year-old son named Otis." (He didn't.) She visibly lost interest in him. So he frantically told her that it was just a joke, that he didn't really have a son named Otis. But it was too late. She either figured that he was suddenly denying his little boy's existence, or he was some kind of a nut who makes up fictional kids named Otis to impress girls. (I guess the second part was actually true.) Note to you single guys out there: The fictional-son-named-Otis line... not a good idea.

Good thought. Trading Sheffield makes every bit as much sense as trading Wagner.