Outfield Options

[smg58]

Conforto's .771 OPS overall is not screaming for a demotion, especially if the wrist issue had anything to do with the slump. Granderson's .779 OPS is fine and trending upwards. It would be easy to promote Nimmo if he hit righthanded, but he's lefty. I'm for being patient with the situation right now.

[Ceetar]

I mean, it was two hits off a righty at least one of which wasn't pitching very well.

He also only has 2 walks in June to 15 strikeouts in 45 PA in June.

It was nice to see the home run, but we're a long way from me being comfortable with Conforto.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

It wasn't just two hits. It was four pretty damn good at-bats, and he could have/should have had a 3rd or 4th hit in there.

We'll see, of course. But what exactly are you looking for, Cee?

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: It wasn't just two hits. It was four pretty damn good at-bats, and he could have/should have had a 3rd or 4th hit in there. We'll see, of course. But what exactly are you looking for, Cee?

Something closer to the 10% walk rate than the 4.4 he has in June.

Something less than the 28 in may and 33% in June K rate.

Those are Nieuwenhuis numbers. he's 4/43 with 1 BB against lefties. That's a small sample, but I might be able to do better in those spots just by standing their and not swinging hoping for 4 balls.

His batting ball lines are bad too. He's just making a ton of soft contact up the middle. he's just tapping out the 2B and SS basically.

One good day against some struggling pitchers is not going to allay those concerns.

[ashie62]

Ceetar wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: It wasn't just two hits. It was four pretty damn good at-bats, and he could have/should have had a 3rd or 4th hit in there. We'll see, of course. But what exactly are you looking for, Cee? Something closer to the 10% walk rate than the 4.4 he has in June. Something less than the 28 in may and 33% in June K rate. Those are Nieuwenhuis numbers. he's 4/43 with 1 BB against lefties. That's a small sample, but I might be able to do better in those spots just by standing their and not swinging hoping for 4 balls. His batting ball lines are bad too. He's just making a ton of soft contact up the middle. he's just tapping out the 2B and SS basically. One good day against some struggling pitchers is not going to allay those concerns.

You have to be kidding. He hits for more power than Kirk ever did.

[Ceetar]

Nieuwenhuis had pretty good power. He also walked more than Conforto and plays better defense. His problem was very much an all or nothing thing, where he could identify some pitches and crush them, was smart enough to lay off others, but generally just isn't talented enough to crush anything but mistakes.

And Conforto is exhibiting many of the same problems.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Is contrarily un-optimistic a thing?
It's mid June, Conforto will be fine. Huge. Big stud.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

He's exhibited those problems for a six-week-stretch. While that may be unsettling, there does seem to be a fair amount more black in his high-minors/major-league ledger, K/BB-rate-wise and otherwise.

[TransMonk]

Conforto > Kirk - and it's silly to think it's even close...especially when it comes to plate discipline and the ability to identify and hit mistake pitches.

Michael has shown some flaws while he has been slumping over the past month and a half. But he had demonstrated before that (over larger periods of time) that he can be an All-Star type hitter. I can't say the same of Kirk.

[Ceetar]

Conforto clearly has more physical ability, but that doesn't mean he'll he fine.

He sucked when he came up and then exploded in August with the rest of the team. His September was merely okay and barring WS game 4 when he was amazing, he sucked in the postseason.

Then he exploded again in April and then sucked in May and June of this year. And like, epic levels of suck.

And he's literally never had a hard hit off a lefty. 7/57 all singles.

[Centerfield]

I like Conforto too. But the kid is clearly no Michael Cuddyer.

[Guest themetfairy]

Centerfield wrote: I like Conforto too. But the kid is clearly no Michael Cuddyer.

Thank the Lord!

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: I like Conforto too. But the kid is clearly no Michael Cuddyer.

I'd sign for Cuddyer's career from Conforto, could do much worse.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceets you're pretty funny about this. If you look at them at the same point in their age/development Conforto's already a much better player than Cuddyer, who didn't surpass an 800 OPS till he was 27. Corforto's 23 and is that already.

That's not to say Conforto will be better than Cuddyer, they actually do profile somewhat similarly but can only imagine how you'd receive Young Cuddyer as he fought to establish himself.

And everyone knows Niuewy for as valuable as he could be (at times - I liked him, CF with power and speed) wouldn't ever be as serious a threat to have a very good career as Conforto is right now.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ceets you're pretty funny about this. If you look at them at the same point in their age/development Conforto's already a much better player than Cuddyer, who didn't surpass an 800 OPS till he was 27. Corforto's 23 and is that already. That's not to say Conforto will be better than Cuddyer, they actually do profile somewhat similarly but can only imagine how you'd receive Young Cuddyer as he fought to establish himself. And everyone knows Niuewy for as valuable as he could be (at times - I liked him, CF with power and speed) wouldn't ever be as serious a threat to have a very good career as Conforto is right now.

I wouldn't describe 194 PA last year as 'being there already' Especially as a platoon. Especially for how bad the non hot-streaks are. I certainly see the potential, I was even starting to buy in, and then he became literally a waste of space for 6 weeks.

Cuddyer was average for a few years and then was pretty good for a while. I'd take that. It'd be nice if Conforto was better, but I'd take it.

[Edgy MD]

I wanna see money on the table.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceets you're pretty funny about this. If you look at them at the same point in their age/development Conforto's already a much better player than Cuddyer, who didn't surpass an 800 OPS till he was 27. Corforto's 23 and is that already. That's not to say Conforto will be better than Cuddyer, they actually do profile somewhat similarly but can only imagine how you'd receive Young Cuddyer as he fought to establish himself. And everyone knows Niuewy for as valuable as he could be (at times - I liked him, CF with power and speed) wouldn't ever be as serious a threat to have a very good career as Conforto is right now. I wouldn't describe 194 PA last year as 'being there already'

I'm just relaying the facts: Cuddyer didn't crack an 800 OPS until age 27; Conforto's already averaged that at 23.

And don't fool yourself into thinking Cuddy never had a bad 6 weeks as a pro.

FWIW, I was the first Cranepooler in history to argue Conforto's slump warranted a trip to the minors but even then I wouldn't have argued all the dumb things you are now.

[Ceetar]

there's literally no prospect I wouldn't, money on the table, take Cuddyer's career from. It' a hard game.


and that's the only thing I'm arguing, and not really arguing it hard. It's certainly not dumb. I'd argue it's dumber to be convinced Conforto will be, no doubt, a bona fide great major leaguer. It's really dumb to be worried about a guy who literally has never driven a ball for a hit against a lefty in the majors?

In the last 30 days he's 5th of 228 in worst OBP of anyone with at least 70 PA. His wRC+ is 52, meaning he's basically half a baseball player. I mean, Stanton is worse over that stretch, but at least he actually has a track record.

He's been really really bad and again, a couple of hard hit balls don't fix that.

[Edgy MD]

Pick a dividing line. One says his final OPS+ will be above X. One says below.

Money on the table.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Pick a dividing line. One says his final OPS+ will be above X. One says below. Money on the table.

payout when 5 years after retirement?

[Edgy MD]

Let's just deal with 2016.

Either June is distinctly indicative of his performance going forward this year or it's not.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm not interested in Cetar's money. I just want his pride.

[ashie62]

And I'd like to see Nimmo for two weeks at Citi.

I still believe in Conforto but a demotion or DL might help, It helped d'Arnaud, Ike not so much.